Why the AMA is not growing...........
09-22-2010, 08:31 AM
#1926
RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
From a totally pragmatic perspective, in my 40 years of flying and teaching RC flying, logically, I cannot possibly see how our hobby/sport could grow. Many years ago, when I started, those who could instruct tripped over each other to give a newcomer help. We would take turns teaching, giving each other a break, that way the student could receive all the help he or she needed. After all the old hands went to the great flying field in the sky, not too many people replaced the previous large number of ready, willing and able instructors.
The only possible way I could see a solution is for the very deep pockets industry jumping in. Even then, I'm not really sure what they could do with all of their resources. They could offer too pay club instructors, but because of the club's long standing and unwritten dogmatic "paid instruction is wrong" philosophy, the industry cannot go down that road. There is really nothing left. Although, the industry could fund RC flight instruction schools to teach people how to teach or become better instructors.
Fliers1
The only possible way I could see a solution is for the very deep pockets industry jumping in. Even then, I'm not really sure what they could do with all of their resources. They could offer too pay club instructors, but because of the club's long standing and unwritten dogmatic "paid instruction is wrong" philosophy, the industry cannot go down that road. There is really nothing left. Although, the industry could fund RC flight instruction schools to teach people how to teach or become better instructors.
Fliers1
09-22-2010, 08:54 AM
#1927
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
I keep hearing how the sport or hobby isnt growing and I'm here to tell you thats just not true in our club. 3-5 new members every year for the last 5 years straight. Ages 11 to 62, I went back and tallied them all up. Our club is up over 80 people in a rural area in northern VT. From our corner of the world we are growing and the AMA has seen growth through our club. We have electrics, gas and glow.......heck when its windy we even have kites !!!!
Point is it is possible to grow your club we are living proof of that. To those who are discouraged with this forum or thread, I agree. There seems to be a lot of belly aching from people who are not or would not be AMA members. Hats off to them for their opinions, they have a right to them but dont let them doninate the discussion or chase you away or get frustrated. Its just their opinion, they are entitled to it and for me its mind over matter so I would rather be glass half full about what I see than glass half empty. In the end it gets you farther ahead. Then again its also why I get involved with our club and help to recruit and train new members. We just winged up another newbie this week so here we "GROW" again !
103/17
Point is it is possible to grow your club we are living proof of that. To those who are discouraged with this forum or thread, I agree. There seems to be a lot of belly aching from people who are not or would not be AMA members. Hats off to them for their opinions, they have a right to them but dont let them doninate the discussion or chase you away or get frustrated. Its just their opinion, they are entitled to it and for me its mind over matter so I would rather be glass half full about what I see than glass half empty. In the end it gets you farther ahead. Then again its also why I get involved with our club and help to recruit and train new members. We just winged up another newbie this week so here we "GROW" again !
103/17
09-22-2010, 08:59 AM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: phlpsfrnk
I hope you didn't mean that. Have you ever lived or traveled overseas?
Frank
ORIGINAL: dbcisco
useless as the US constitution.
useless as the US constitution.
Frank
09-22-2010, 12:39 PM
#1930
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
OK, you say one thing but mean something else. Your sarcasm did not come across.
ORIGINAL: dbcisco
Of course not. An NPO's AoI is as important as a constitution is to a country or state. Sadly everyone ignores the AMA's AoI and I think that is as wrong as ignoring our constitution. I was being sarcastic in that far too many AMA members have such little respect for the reasons why the AMA was created (not so they could fly airplanes and get out of taxes). I wonder if they have the same lack of respect for the principles on which our country was founded too.
Of course not. An NPO's AoI is as important as a constitution is to a country or state. Sadly everyone ignores the AMA's AoI and I think that is as wrong as ignoring our constitution. I was being sarcastic in that far too many AMA members have such little respect for the reasons why the AMA was created (not so they could fly airplanes and get out of taxes). I wonder if they have the same lack of respect for the principles on which our country was founded too.
Why do you think the AMA was created?
Regards
Frank
09-22-2010, 01:02 PM
#1931
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: dbcisco
]
Of course not. An NPO's AoI is as important as a constitution is to a country or state. Sadly everyone ignores the AMA's AoI and I think that is as wrong as ignoring our constitution. I was being sarcastic in that far too many AMA members have such little respect for the reasons why the AMA was created (not so they could fly airplanes and get out of taxes). I wonder if they have the same lack of respect for the principles on which our country was founded too.
]
Of course not. An NPO's AoI is as important as a constitution is to a country or state. Sadly everyone ignores the AMA's AoI and I think that is as wrong as ignoring our constitution. I was being sarcastic in that far too many AMA members have such little respect for the reasons why the AMA was created (not so they could fly airplanes and get out of taxes). I wonder if they have the same lack of respect for the principles on which our country was founded too.
09-22-2010, 01:14 PM
#1932
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
dbcisco
Of course not. An NPO's AoI is as important as a constitution is to a country or state. Sadly everyone ignores the AMA's AoI and I think that is as wrong as ignoring our constitution. I was being sarcastic in that far too many AMA members have such little respect for the reasons why the AMA was created (not so they could fly airplanes and get out of taxes). I wonder if they have the same lack of respect for the principles on which our country was founded too.
Of course not. An NPO's AoI is as important as a constitution is to a country or state. Sadly everyone ignores the AMA's AoI and I think that is as wrong as ignoring our constitution. I was being sarcastic in that far too many AMA members have such little respect for the reasons why the AMA was created (not so they could fly airplanes and get out of taxes). I wonder if they have the same lack of respect for the principles on which our country was founded too.
09-22-2010, 01:22 PM
#1933
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: K-Bob
Mountaineer070: It's disheartening to see your spirit and vigor sapped by the naysayers and perpetual complainers. They like tp say that it's all for the good of the AMA but after awhile you see that it is only a front for problems they have that go way beyond joining a club or supporting the AMA.
Give it a break for awhile and then come back. You may not know, or ever know, of the casual visitor who was inspired by something you wrote.
I've wondered for years why some who are not AMA members, and who have sworn that they never will be members, have to come in here and $%%# in the AMA's messkit. It must bring some sort of sick pleasure to try to ruin it for others.
I'm outa here too ............................. adios, muchachas
ORIGINAL: mountaineer070
Negative...after...negative...posts with no real solutions. If the AMA is truly a dinosaur, or is so out of touch with reality, why do you folks even care to discuss it? Seems to me that most of those who post are not members...will not join a club...because they might charge $50 a year to fly that $900 airplane. Everyone wants somebody else to do all the work and then fly for free on someone else's dime...so why would you even care to do anything to better the AMA? I agree with each and every person who has posted on this thread, nothing AMA will ever do will be enough. That is very unfortunate.
If you are opposed to the AMA, then I suggest you are against the very club structure that supports flying fields and this is borne out by several posts that alude to using Parks instead of organized clubs...with the sorry excuse that some of the elders leave a bad taste in their mouth because they demand protection for their expensive facilities. Is there a better way...Sure...but not one has mentioned it. If AMA only insures its members...then clubs should purchase their own insurance and charge accordingly...an additional $58 per year per member to pay for the coverage. Sound about right to me.
From where I stand, as a new AMA member, RCU forums are just a place for *****ing and complaining with no real interest in protecting the future of model aviation. No real solutions...and when solutions are suggested...there is seven reasons why it won't work. You folks have a good life...and enjoy your hobby while it lasts...and when it is gone along with the clubs that support it...don't start looking for anyone to blame except yourselves.
Last post...for it's a waste of time to try and convince a minority of closed minds that there can be a better future.
Negative...after...negative...posts with no real solutions. If the AMA is truly a dinosaur, or is so out of touch with reality, why do you folks even care to discuss it? Seems to me that most of those who post are not members...will not join a club...because they might charge $50 a year to fly that $900 airplane. Everyone wants somebody else to do all the work and then fly for free on someone else's dime...so why would you even care to do anything to better the AMA? I agree with each and every person who has posted on this thread, nothing AMA will ever do will be enough. That is very unfortunate.
If you are opposed to the AMA, then I suggest you are against the very club structure that supports flying fields and this is borne out by several posts that alude to using Parks instead of organized clubs...with the sorry excuse that some of the elders leave a bad taste in their mouth because they demand protection for their expensive facilities. Is there a better way...Sure...but not one has mentioned it. If AMA only insures its members...then clubs should purchase their own insurance and charge accordingly...an additional $58 per year per member to pay for the coverage. Sound about right to me.
From where I stand, as a new AMA member, RCU forums are just a place for *****ing and complaining with no real interest in protecting the future of model aviation. No real solutions...and when solutions are suggested...there is seven reasons why it won't work. You folks have a good life...and enjoy your hobby while it lasts...and when it is gone along with the clubs that support it...don't start looking for anyone to blame except yourselves.
Last post...for it's a waste of time to try and convince a minority of closed minds that there can be a better future.
Give it a break for awhile and then come back. You may not know, or ever know, of the casual visitor who was inspired by something you wrote.
I've wondered for years why some who are not AMA members, and who have sworn that they never will be members, have to come in here and $%%# in the AMA's messkit. It must bring some sort of sick pleasure to try to ruin it for others.
I'm outa here too ............................. adios, muchachas
Whew....that didn't last long, musta changed yer mind...huh?
09-22-2010, 01:43 PM
#1934
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: The Toolman
[Whew....that didn't last long, musta changed yer mind...huh?
[Whew....that didn't last long, musta changed yer mind...huh?
Nice of you to miss me though. I appreciate the concern.
'Bout you?Spend some time at the tractor forums?Do you have tractors? I was just kind of wondering if you just stalked around over there for the heck of it like you do here seeing how you made such a fuss about giving the AMA the heave ho and how it's a corrupt and comtemptable organization. I'm just curious why you would wantto waste your valuable time in this forum.
09-22-2010, 01:52 PM
#1935
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: K-Bob
Got some rest, lots of work finished, spent time with the kiddos and repaired the aileron servo tray on my Yak.
Nice of you to miss me though. I appreciate the concern. [img][/img]
'Bout you? Spend some time at the tractor forums? Do you have tractors? I was just kind of wondering if you just stalked around over there for the heck of it like you do here seeing how you made such a fuss about giving the AMA the heave ho and how it's a corrupt and comtemptable organization. I'm just curious why you would want to waste your valuable time in this forum. [img][/img] [img][/img]
ORIGINAL: The Toolman
[Whew....that didn't last long, musta changed yer mind...huh?
[Whew....that didn't last long, musta changed yer mind...huh?
Nice of you to miss me though. I appreciate the concern. [img][/img]
'Bout you? Spend some time at the tractor forums? Do you have tractors? I was just kind of wondering if you just stalked around over there for the heck of it like you do here seeing how you made such a fuss about giving the AMA the heave ho and how it's a corrupt and comtemptable organization. I'm just curious why you would want to waste your valuable time in this forum. [img][/img] [img][/img]
Number 1. because I can
Number 2. Got an old wheel horse garden Tractor, more of us (tractor restorers an collectors) than rc flyers anyway, an get along fine without a national org.
Number 3. Retired an have all the time in the world to waste.
09-22-2010, 03:18 PM
#1937
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
The Articles of Incorporation (sometimes also referred to as the Certificate of Incorporation or the Corporate Charter) are the primary rules governing the management of a corporation in the United States and Canada, and are filed with a state or other regulatory agency.
A certificate of incorporation is a legal document relating to the formation of a company or corporation. It is a license to form a corporation issued by state government.
In the U.S.A. a certificate of incorporation is usually used as an alternative description of a corporation's articles of incorporation.
In the U.S.A. the certificate of incorporation or articles of incorporation form a major constituent part of the constitutional documents of the corporation.
A certificate of incorporation is a legal document relating to the formation of a company or corporation. It is a license to form a corporation issued by state government.
In the U.S.A. a certificate of incorporation is usually used as an alternative description of a corporation's articles of incorporation.
In the U.S.A. the certificate of incorporation or articles of incorporation form a major constituent part of the constitutional documents of the corporation.
09-22-2010, 03:38 PM
#1938
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: dbcisco
Just keep trashing the AoI. That was a garbage from the 60's. Just go fly and have fun.
Just keep trashing the AoI. That was a garbage from the 60's. Just go fly and have fun.
I don't think this was meant for me, was it? If so.....huh?
09-22-2010, 03:46 PM
#1939
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: The Toolman
I don't think this was meant for me, was it? If so.....huh?
ORIGINAL: dbcisco
Just keep trashing the AoI. That was a garbage from the 60's. Just go fly and have fun.
Just keep trashing the AoI. That was a garbage from the 60's. Just go fly and have fun.
I don't think this was meant for me, was it? If so.....huh?
It was sarcasm for those who think the AoI is a worthless, meaningless document.
09-22-2010, 03:47 PM
#1940
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
Tinner1
As for "far too many members have such little respect for the reasons why the AMA was created" would you please explain, based on your 3 years in the hobby why you are such an authority on the subject of why the AMA was formed? WHY was it formed? Please educate us lamers.....
As for "far too many members have such little respect for the reasons why the AMA was created" would you please explain, based on your 3 years in the hobby why you are such an authority on the subject of why the AMA was formed? WHY was it formed? Please educate us lamers.....
WHY WAS IT (THE AMA) FORMED?
09-22-2010, 03:51 PM
#1941
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
The answer is in the AoI that you are complaining about:
"The primary object of the corporation shall be to promote the educational and scientific aspects of model aviation."
"The primary object of the corporation shall be to promote the educational and scientific aspects of model aviation."
09-22-2010, 04:17 PM
#1942
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
FIRST off I am NOT complaining about the AoI, THAT is not my question, but as usual you put words in peoples mouths to try to support your opinion/statements. I have just gone to the AMA web page and looked up the AMA's AoI, and it is what the AMA founders filled out to apply for and aquire tax exempt status.
This is the first line of the AoI the AMA filed, BUT BEFORE those same people filed for tax exemption through formation and filing of AoI, they had to have a plan for the AMA was to be. What THAT plan was is what I was asking you to answer, but you quote the AoI. I'm sure they complied with the AoI FIRST then decided what to do for modeling. Either way, I really hate to admit this but Arbo is right about you, and I am going to take his road and ignore you!
The undersigned, desiring to form a nonprofit corporation pursuant to the laws of the State of
[STATE], do hereby certify as follows:
[STATE], do hereby certify as follows:
09-22-2010, 04:25 PM
#1943
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
I have been saying that the AoI is the legal document which holds the legal purpose of "why" the AMA exists but you refuse to listen. You and many, many others have been attacking me on the AMA's purpose on several threads. Those are the AMA's documents not mine but every time I bring it up members go on the attack. That is why I accuse them and you of ignoring the AoI. You didn't even know what it said, what better demonstration of ignoring it.
09-22-2010, 04:48 PM
#1944
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
Sounds like the AMA is being run by the same idiots that are running Harley-Davidson into the ground..........They think they know what the public wants but they are 100% wrong.The AMA can start by keeping it's stupid magazine and lowering membership costs to the $25 range. It's the "I know what's right even if nobody agrees mentality" that is killing them as they have become a entity on to themselves and forgot why they are even here![sm=drowning.gif]
09-22-2010, 05:31 PM
#1945
RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: capitalB
Sounds like the AMA is being run by the same idiots that are running Harley-Davidson into the ground..........They think they know what the public wants but they are 100% wrong.The AMA can start by keeping it's stupid magazine and lowering membership costs to the $25 range. It's the ''I know what's right even if nobody agrees mentality'' that is killing them as they have become a entity on to themselves and forgot why they are even here![sm=drowning.gif]
Sounds like the AMA is being run by the same idiots that are running Harley-Davidson into the ground..........They think they know what the public wants but they are 100% wrong.The AMA can start by keeping it's stupid magazine and lowering membership costs to the $25 range. It's the ''I know what's right even if nobody agrees mentality'' that is killing them as they have become a entity on to themselves and forgot why they are even here![sm=drowning.gif]
09-22-2010, 05:43 PM
#1946
RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: dbcisco
The answer is in the AoI that you are complaining about:
''The primary object of the corporation shall be to promote the educational and scientific aspects of model aviation.''
The answer is in the AoI that you are complaining about:
''The primary object of the corporation shall be to promote the educational and scientific aspects of model aviation.''
There may be some other rules they have written somewhere that defines the statement further, "We promote educational and scientific aspects of model aviation" can be even as simple as implimenting some small program and they have fulfilled their non-profit obligation for the IRS.
As far as that being good for the members that would be arguable. To me, I would not accept deviating that far from the objective/purpose the org was built upon. If the org needs to deviate then the Articles need to be changed to reflect what that current purpose is. If it is for park flyers, then change it and move on.
I have been in several corps and believe me those Articles are not that important. They are hardly ever looked at. The mission statement is the most looked at and that only if the org pushes that. You can ask most folks in an org what the mission of the org is and they have absolutely no clue [8D]
09-22-2010, 06:28 PM
#1947
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
Why do you think the folks who incorporated the AMA put that as the purpose? Was it just a loose phrase to get NPO status? or did they actually mean it?
09-22-2010, 06:30 PM
#1948
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
I'm with you Toolman back to the tractors this one is my work in progress
ready to plant corn when the dinosaur bites it [sm=wink_smile.gif] lmao
1944 Case SC
ready to plant corn when the dinosaur bites it [sm=wink_smile.gif] lmao
1944 Case SC
09-22-2010, 06:41 PM
#1949
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: dbcisco
[Nope, not you.
It was sarcasm for those who think the AoI is a worthless, meaningless document.
[Nope, not you.
It was sarcasm for those who think the AoI is a worthless, meaningless document.
dbcisco:
Sadly everyone ignores the AMA's AoI ..............
Sadly everyone ignores the AMA's AoI ..............
Now that you have copied and pasted the definition of an AoI, please answer the question, "How do you feel the AMA has violated or ignored their AoI"? It is your contention that The AMA does not engage in educational and/or scientific activities? You can precede your answer with a disclaimer so that you won;t get in to any legal wranglings. Lord I know you've had enough with threats from the AMA and RCG/Knife Edge software folks for running off at the mouth. Justtype "IMHO" first.
09-22-2010, 06:43 PM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: tinner1
Either way, I really hate to admit this but Arbo is right about you, and I am going to take his road and ignore you!
Either way, I really hate to admit this but Arbo is right about you, and I am going to take his road and ignore you!