KidEpoxy

Hey Muroc

yooohoo, Frank!

You keep wondeing what the PF crowd wants, and what they think of AMA/PPP.
Well, heres some of that data-

"we talked to this club member for a couple minutes after he landed his 1/4 scale bird and my young friend told this member how beautiful his plane was and that he was learning to fly on his electric cub and had just performed his first solo the night before the member replied to him the the electric aircraft are not rc aircraft but toys and if you can't fly a real airplane you don't need to fly"

add that to your data set of what parkies think

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I guess I am on a different hill as I do not dislike or like the AMA. The AMA membership is merely a means for me to fly my RC planes since I don't have a free place to fly in my area without AMA membership and the nearest RC club requires AMA membership for me to fly.

Would I join AMA if it were not required? Well, probably not unless I saw a great need to join an organization because of some purpose or functions it has. I basically state my thoughts on the matters at hand and I believe that the posters have some great concepts and some legitimate concerns that they are addressing.

All of this can make for good discussion. Do I think that all these folks want us to not be AMA members? I don't get that thought at all while reading the posts here. If the AMA is not doing what it should do, then it should be a huge concern to its members.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

OUCH! Those little toy electrics (especially those 100 MPH jets)! [:@] [X(]

103/17

Kid Epoxy,

Are you implying that the comments of one 1/4 scale pilot at one club location speaks for the AMA ? We in Guildhall VT are a club of 80 who has worked hard to include everyone including the guys who come with micro foam Park flyers. I would say that the fellow in question who made the comments about Park Flyers "not being real airplanes" has got it wrong but I also think he's entitled to his opinion although I cant say I like it or agree with it. I also dont believe his opinion is what the AMA stands for or supports in any way shape or form. As a matter of fact I know for certain its not the AMA's message !

I have seen this type of attitude before where its all about how big or expensive someones airplane is. It comes and it goes, its not very condusive to attracting new members and usually when I have seen it someone in the club explains to the guy making the statement how his comments didnt help anyone and that they may well have been counter productive.

103/17

GerKonig

You obviously never participated in any effort to get access to a park. First of, a bunch of unregulated guys that make a request will go absolutely no where. The negotiations with this park people are not easy, and you will find park people that are against the idea. I remember years back we tried to get a place at a park and were not succesfull, but they asked for insurance, background, etc. We were not approved. Years later (after one park individual retired) a group of buddys got approved. You say "it is a nice trick" like the ATA would do the legwork for you. No my friend, you have to move your ass yourself if you want a place. Plus, I see no reason why "non member groups" could get off their as*es and do what you accuse the ATA of doing (getting allowed into a park). Heck we even had to bring statistics of accidents, people hurt and such. By the way, there I learned that most people that get hurt in parks, get hurt on a bike...

It becomes transparent that many people here have no clue what they are talking about, good luck in your wasting time.

Gerry

AB Bob

My Feedback: (20)

I may be blessed to be a member of our club. Fredericksburg Area R/C Club (F.A.R.C.C.) Our clubs motto is "Friends helping friends fly".
And, this is exactly what I have experienced since I first went out to look at the field/club.

We have electric planes, elec. helis, glow planes, glow helis, gassers, etc. from $100 foamies to many $1000's 40% gassers....whatever flies!

We just added a second runway. We have a nice club house. Covered areas for shade and concession sales.

I always look forward to going out there when I'm off from work. Sometimes I don't even fly; just watching other members, BS-ing, helping others with their models and even doing the field maintenance is fun to me.

I do feel that our training could be more structured (not enough new pilots to justify training dates and times), but there was always someone on the weekends that helped me on my buddy box. It was quite informal. Now I solo.

Most of our new members are from other fields and clubs that like what we have here and have decided to join. Dues are only $55/year plus AMA.

I hope I always feel this way.

Bob
Fredericksburgrc.com

Hossfly

Well, Fliers1, they were not all so great. Early on when RC Report was relatively new, a magazine format after the early newspaper format, their engine man wrote a report on a Fox 40RC designed exclusively for Formula 1 Pylon racing, where all engines were NOT user friendly but like a prize race-horse, tempermental at best.
RCR's engine man raked FOX over the coals big time because the engine would be difficult for beginners to operate. YES, it was advertised for Form. I, NOT for beginners. I questioned the write-up, but Gordan backed his writer. SAD!

Although my subscription still had several months to go, I never received the last distributed issue. (I was one of the first 200 subscribers and stayed with RCR until the end.) However, I believe it was the next to last magazine or maybe the one before that, RCR gave a glowing report on a twin engine ARF. Not listed in the good/bad points, yet mentioned in the write-up was the fact that both firewalls - engine mounts - failed on the THIRD flight. That is a dangerous item and had it been me that would have been the headline. [sm=devious.gif]

In the last several years Gordon also got into the girlee stuff a bit much for a modeling magazine. That worked for RC Modeler but it was the wrong play for RCR.

fliers1

Hoss,
I should have said, I heard that RCR gave honest reports. I did receive a few of those publications for awhile, but didn't read much.

Fliers1

theriddler33872

ok first i have no problem with AMA members it's the AMA it's self and the cost in general gets out of site for some, when it comes down to having to join a club to boot, now if the AMA at least offered you the opportunity to fly at any sanction or chartered AMA field when your out and about then there would be something in it for almost anybody, i myself travel a ton between florida and virginia yet i have to join a club to fly in both states (more then 3 times a year by some) no thanks. if i'm spending my money i want more the a magazine and insurance which i already have and the supplemental insurance that won't kick in till what ................ till the AMA has determaned that i was in the right meaning you were at a approved site to fly it screams grey area to me.

second if anyone shows up to a flying field they should be treated the way you want to be treated but really with kit gloves the first impression is the only one you get if it's negitive you've possibly lost a future member not only to the AMA but also to your club, not all area's have more then one choice so you've lost big in that respect .

these and all the other reasons posted in this thread show why without a doubt the AMA's numbers are and will continue to decline i've said it alot but one day maybe i'll have to join up or maybe the AMA won't be around who knows but if the attitudes from some not all AMA'ers continue we all know were it will end .

i get people into the hobby when ever i can i would never be negitive towards them i love this hobby and i would want nothing more then another person to see why i love it but even in this forum i've gottin' flamed for my opinions and i've decide to stick to my guns could you AMA'ers out there just imagine if i was on your side with my big mouth .

just wanted to add being from virginia i never really got the attitudes it was when i started my traveling away from virginia and do not get me wrong i did not go out to every club in virginia but i did know some of the local guys here and there .

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I have a friend that I have flown with a lot this past year at CVRC. We are the weekend warriors...the diehards. I think he just joined your club in the last couple weeks. He visited a few times and has always spoken highly of your club and he finally joined.

Keep up the good work. I plan to come up and visit before long, if time permits. [8D]

KidEpoxy

103-
AM I?
Hold on, lemme re-read my post

nope,
103, it looks like I didnt say that at all.
What I did say is almost the opposite of your interpretation.

I did mention that it was a point of data to add to his set of data,
but if you see that as me telling him to use this to replace all other data, that this IS the way ALL clubs work...
well...
I really dont know how to respond to that,
since it is clearly NOT what I said

fireman350

give me the cost of 50 of the stickers I am most seriously interested i'm sure we can sell 50 of them here I will proudly display it on my vehicles and computer right next to my EAA member stickers actually now that i think about it if I put experimental stickers on my bird I can probably get a whole lot more from the EAA for a whole lot less lmao

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

Put me in for 50 stickers too.


AMA = Another Meaningless Association or Aimless Moneymaking Association

The Toolman

An here you thought everybody knew it wasn't free. You have a never ending job. Be sure an remind my buddy (yea right) Muroc it isn't free also

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

I too, can (and do) live without the Model Aviation magazine. It contains biased information on every product reviewed; useless re-printing of old articles ... and most of all, it isn't free. But I do like the pretty girls that are in many of the photos of the airplanes!

All in all, I'd never buy a single copy of the magazine or waste my time reading it.

theriddler33872

It is free thats what the AMA tells you, you are joining a organization only you get a free magazine and insurance for all your troubles .
i've heard it over and over again it's the same old rederick and another reason behind the decline of the AMA .
the AMA has to come up with a way to get new members they just tryed a short time ago or it may still be going on to get new membership by giving those new members a in for half price for there first year i'd love to hear how that worked out or are they still on the decline even after that .

hey i respect anyone that stands up for what they believe in .

noveldoc

My Feedback: (2)

Personally I recently told a friend getting in on the cheap with some sort of electric combo was a bad idea. I offered to help him price shop so he could spend a bit more and get a much more flyable plane. With a bit of help a newbie can get a good used engine and radio kit off the forums here. He may even find a used trainer but, if not, there is always the good olde Ugly Stick. Also there are often people in the clubs who want to sell their trainer and even radio so they can afford to upgrade.

I explained to him this was just like when folks warned him against getting that cheap set of clubs when he learned golf. RC flying is a sport and you have to get some decent equipment to properly learn any sport. You can easily drop fifty bucks on one trip to a golf coruse or a day rental of a small fishing boat.

I uderstand AMA makes it possible for us to have clubs because they insure them.

Tom

103/17

I asked if you were implying something............................I guess from your response you were not. Thanks for the answer, that clears it up for me.

103/17

103/17

noveldoc,

Your right but I am sure you will get poked at for your last comment...................I do however agree with you 110% !

103/17

KidEpoxy

well, we could educate him as to why to avoid making that comment

To wit:
"I uderstand AMA makes it possible for us to have clubs because they insure them. "
that is a common misunderstanding... a lot like folks thinking its a 'free' magazine.

Of course it is possible for a group of Aeromodelers to form a flying club without AMA insurance,
just who exactly is making this insurance mandated 100% everywhere?
Even by just looking at the Vegas Aces PPP club location, we see the location did allow folks to fly toy planes there, and the location had no prohibition of types of models. Of course those guys coulda just formed a Clem & Cletus Flying Club and hold meetings at the Wafflehouse.... whats stopping them?

theriddler33872

the problem is the AMA needs some compitition and as like with any business you'd see what they are really made of .
without compitition any business can do what ever they want and charge what ever they want .

if you had a choice to join another organization that was going to give you everything but the magazine for half the price plus going to help you organize your club and give you a voice that would be herd , a vote for regional representation would you stay with the AMA or would you make a change ?

i'm just wondering ..............

corsair183

My Feedback: (6)

When a new comer spends 400 dollars to start RC flying, he is likely feeling a concern about the cost of the hobby. Then he's told he needs to fork over more cash for AMA and "the club." If he ever makes it out to the field, he's assaulted by old timers with their never ending list of "rules." He feels intimidated. (Lots of these old types don't fly much. They can't afford to and besides, it's lots more fun harrassing someone who is new, inexperienced and impressionable.)

When his trainer hits the dirt and is smashed into a thousand tiny pieces, he gets discouraged. But he has to keep current on his AMA membership and dues at "the club" or he will be penalized.

AMA rules say you gotta write all your ID inside your planes. So if there's a crash and a petition is filed, the shyster can attack you and your home owners insurance first.
Even with AMA membership, and the so-called insurance, AMA prefers us to bear all the costs and liabilities of a crash.

Many of the club types are retired military, failures basically, that never amounted to anything. But through "the club" and the
AMA some of these exercize authority and power over the new comers. They now feel important, but are quite annoying to others.

In fairness, there are many fine people in the hobby, including retired military.

Really, it is the cost more than anything that is keeping new ones out and thinning the ranks of the present membership.
Taxes are going up, the dollar is being devalued, and a state of perpetual war now exists.

Suggestions: I want AMA to vigorously defend our right to fly against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Sell the big fancy office and get a smaller one. Then save the AMA and help the new flyers by reducing the membership fees.


John Zimmerman

Access

I've seen this sort of thing happen in many hobbies, it never ends well. The organization either quickly notices its folly and reforms (often times the board has to turn over for this to happen), or fades into obscurity or even bankruptcy. I can name many, the cycle is pretty clear, first the organizations loses interest in the newcomer, the casual hobbyist, and/or by far the most common type of hobbyist. Then they become increasingly entrenced, deny any problem exists at the national level, while their problems are very apparent at the local level. Then they try to demand exclusivity and deny any participation in events to non-members. And finally they either become a non-issue (ignored by almost everyone at the local level) or they have economic problems eventually leading to bankruptcy after which they vanish altogether.

103/17

I think what everyone forgets is the AMA is US ! The folks who belong, the folks who fly, the folks who work hard to put on events. I get insurance ( above and beyond my homeowners ), a magazine that I actually have liked for some 25 years, A resource to ask questions of, buy plans, order our trophies and our banners. I get a national events schedule and if I am so inclined a destination location in Muncie in which to visit. I for one have enjoyed belonging to group of flyers who make up the AMA, partly because I AM THE AMA, as is anyone else out there who belongs. Has it grown in our area ? Yes it has, as has our club and for good reason, we actually try to grow instead of telling everyone how bad the AMA is and how over priced it is and how the magazine isnt really free.

I would be really great if this thread actually had solutions instead of all of the same comments about how bad the AMA is. In effect you are telling me how bad all of the folks are who belong to the AMA because they are in fact THE AMA !!!!!

103/17

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

SOLUTION # 1 - Dissolve the AMA and start a different organization WITHOUT any of the prior AMA board members.

SOLUTION # 2 - Eliminate the monopoly / strangle-hold of the AMA by starting a better organization that will be in competition to the AMA