chugger13

My Feedback: (19)

Reading thru this thread gives one a headache & boy what a motely crue we have on hand. Note I am a AMA member yet not their poster boy or water boy since they do have flaws which are obvious but instead of agruing and pointing out what is wrong with AMA why not take a stance by showing them how to improve. If they choose to ignore you commence your own group in your region because based on this thread you can do better. Right?

theriddler33872

on-your-six good post !
i think alot of the problems are who you meet first then it can either get better or worse from there,
for me i started off getting a negitive person then came on to RCU and found more negitive (NOT and i do meanNOT RCU's fault)
thenon the other hand i've meet some really good people that seem to really want to make a difference .

my second thing gets alot of greef for me and thats membership cost i've tried examples and people just get upset like i ran over there cat or something jeez.

if your child joins little league andyou have to buy your uniforms for your child and one teams uniforms are $20 then the next teams uniforms are $120 but there in the same league it makes no sense so for one club to charge $120 based off the only fact that they are the only one's around for a 100 miles is just as wrong and if you ask that club why we're back to running over there cat again.

chugger13 your right about starting your own thing and yes i'm the one that said it BUT inall in the same breath i'd like to join the AMA but it seems like there's so much difference and attitudes it makes it hard to say yes if clubs had some structure to pricing and so on alot of people use the maintence as there excuse some say location the excuses go on and on then you get the ones that say "if the AMA did that we'd drop the AMA " right back to money !!!!!!!!!
and maybe that person shouldn't be speaking out for his or her club ...attitude .

i'm with you on that one articflyer and it has nothing to do with age it you want to be involved be involved even if you don't fly anymore .

nachman4859

My Feedback: (3)

The AMA is here to help clubs keep their fields.. (help clubs in trouble) ....promote model aviation ... and provide us modelers with basic insurance ...for day to day club modeling all the way to big event shows ... Right . What is your alternative, Homeowners insurance?... What about helping clubs in trouble .. Does homeowners help with that? or promoting the hobby?... The only Way this hobby will exist is if we help the local hobby shop and there are great ones .... and real bad ones ... In my town, We try to scout for the ones interested in buying a plane and carefully pull him away from the salesman.... Who will sell him something he is doomed to try ... too fast ... too acrobatic... not user friendly enough... we have lost a lot of prospective new members to bad hobbyshop advice ...more interested in making a sale rather than providing the best chance a flier needs to succeed ... We try to pull them to the field show nice docile trainer... Yes he really wants the warbird.. BUT WE ALL KNOW.. he's doomed [:@] if he buys it ... That is where we lose most of the new prospects, BAD HOBBY SHOP choices... He is all excited, He builds it, He crashes, BYE BYE..I CANT AFFORD THIS HOBBY ... he mutters as he gets in his car.. [:'(] Never to be seen again .. NOW the guy who comes back after that bad experience... There is your future... AMA 'er a glutton for punishment if i ever saw one... [X(] nachman flying since 1980 [>:]

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

We only have one side of the "I was treated badly and a guy hurt my feelers"story here. It would be great to hear the other side. I have a feeling, given the rants and, quite frankly, sometimes borderline maniacalposts here, that maybe the guy did his club one heck ofa favor.

Now,as an aside, I do see quite a few posts from folks not wanting to join AMAbecause they fly littlefoamiesin their front yard or have access toland that is owned by someone uninterested in site insurance, or even the oddfew that prefer to fly alone. That's great. You don't need AMA and no one should expect you to join just for the reason that you would be supporting the only national organizationforaeromodeling education and advancement of our hobby.

Istill don'tunderstandwhyeither of the two groups would take time to show up here to complain.

dbcisco

I did and it isn't.

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

It is the only one I know of. Do you know of another? The USAMA maybe?

If you have not learned anything from the AMAor not taken advantage of their educational programs then you have no one to blame but yourself. You of all people are in a position to make use of their resources. Sadly though, I think that boat has sailed.Still worth a shot if youwould invest as much timeand effort as you do in trying tobe a fly in the ointmment. Just sayin'.

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

The AMA is not growing because the market is down. Come on guys this is a hobby, not a need.
People are out of jobs, we are in a crisis. If you dont have money to buy food you are not going to be in a hobby.
Those of us still here are fortunate, we have jobs, we can afford to fly.
As soon as he economy gets better, houses are going to sell again, unemployment is going to go down and more people are going to come back to our wonderful hobby.

chugger13

My Feedback: (19)

Basic facts:
1. This is a hobby therefore like the stock market interest will peak and fade over a long duration of time. The question is what are you doing to promote the hobby yourself. Looking to AMA or the hobbyshop is passing the buck and will fail. Our club commenced an out reach program with school kids which has created more local interest. Yet even this is only a band aid to the real issue which is expense.
2. Being a hobby it is expensive no matter how you cut it. Club fee, AMA fee, plane or planes with all gear couple of thousand can be spent in seconds. People see or hear this and lose interest quickly. Change it have your club by trainers to offset the cost but this is only a temp. repair and not a fix. The person who spends $100 on a plane chances are will never join. Why? what research did they do besides window shopping!!! You don't just buy a gun and become a hunter or a crutch rocket and become a professional racer. The issue is a portion of the public is McDonaldized and thinks they can have it their way and quiclky with little to nothing invested yes vested. That is another issue this is an investment in fun not a Sunday morning pick up game.
3. Behavior is a major issue the old guard is meeting the new and does not like change. Well welcome to the sand pile in 5th grade all over a gain become someone is going to get hurt and take their toys home. Unless you are willing to change and talk to all members on being postive and outgoing to spectators and possible new members then you are a Inabler to the problem.

The issue is this AMA is nothing more then what brings us together if you have ideas voice them here and pass a petition to be signed to create change. Though if the root matter(s) is not handled (cost, behavior, window shopper) that change will not matter. Even if AMA gets NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, Nascar stars to fly and pimp the hobby

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

Wow. Excellent post.

dbcisco

I agree with everything you said except the above. It can be expensive but not always.
As long as everyone ignores the millions of park and backyard hobbyist then it is expensive. The PPP was good idea gone horribly wrong. As long as the focus is on expensive planes that require a club, the AMA will continue to lose members. Far too many are enjoying the the many other aspects of modeling and flying and the AMA has nothing to offer them.
It is like a general fishing club focusing on the decline in fly fisherman and trying to convince bait fishers to take up fly fishing instead of accomodating bait fishing.

KidEpoxy

I just never considered the materials for a 4oz RubberFF to be "expensive".
I am the first to admit that I am one CHEAP son of a gun,
but if somebody thinks RubberFF is expensive... well... I really dont know how to respond to that

If one considers the cost of a digital servo,
and then multiplies that by the number of servos in a Control Line plane,
one shouldnt reach for the term 'expensive'

dbcisco

I bought a vintage Comet "SuperStars" Jenny kit. Almost $30 on Ebay!
Cheapest kit was a GAR Albatros that I got for a whopping $12!
I don't know how anyone can afford this hobby.
I just sold a kidney to get the new Flyzone Albatros that will only teach me that a $70 RTF and a church parking lot can be a world of fun.

nachman4859

My Feedback: (3)

All you guys have a great point [&:] one Teenagers on their Videogame kick are not the future but will buy the heck out of the new simulators #2 The Casual Flier interested enough to buy a Foamie Or Parkzone or portable under $200.oo Small heli or flier . Not really an AMA Prospect Why . He doesent need a field He can fly at his house or the park. He doesnt need a club because It doesnt take that much skill to fly one and They dont weigh too much less than a pound so the odds of damaging property or people are low... The AMA prospect is the 25 to 60 size motor or compatible electric , that need a big space is noisy a little dangerous and needs a real live instructor... The other Park flying group which some can be encouraged to try the bigger planes can be converted Otherwise ... they need their own space and this is all clubs dilema how long do you allow a park flier take up runway and airspace ... until he needs to join the club and get into a more compatible plane the clubs flying ... and there are many different genres.. an all electric club, rc sport fliers , pot luck fliers fly whatever you have (Most of us) Scale Warbird , 3D , Giant Scale 25% to 40% and so on and so on .... Its a Big Problem There are a lot of strikes against the AMA the economy which sucks .... , Older Clubs Older Ways , Teenager Apathy [&:] Computer game addiction , Communities growing and overtaking Lands that used to be for Modeling being Overtaxed [:'(] by growth overtaking raising property taxes, and clubmembers not being able to compete and losing thru attricion and money problems, noise restrictions. [:@] Its gonna be a few rough years ahead .. I wish I had a crystal ball Nachman 30 year RC pilot

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I am with you on this one, just one "gotcha". Kids still spend tons like there is no tomorrow on video game equipment. Oh, I forgot, cell phones, too

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Have you bought a rubber band lately? Sheeeesssh.....talk about second mortgage on the house

fliers1

9.6 unemployment. 10.4 employed. How many millions are able to afford the hobby/sport?
How many old but still working RC outfits are just sitting around collecting dust, that people could buy pennies on the dollar? Where there is a will, there is a way. Seems like some of us have simply given up, saying that nothing can be done because of the "economy" or any other alleged cause.

Fliers1

chugger13

My Feedback: (19)

Well,
Can you find deals sure even a blind dog can find a bone. But be the new guy on the block and pick-up a tower hobby magazine or check their website, horizon hobby and so on. Is that cheap? Throughout the thread a discussion is noted about AMA being too expensive for park flyers ok create a 2nd AMA card only for park flyers. Who inforces it? What happens when that person steps up to a 1.20 size plane? Then the issue of being in a club well membership is $100. Should they be less? Should they have less use of the field over a full membership? Try charging $20 for them and tell the guy who paid $100 it's ok. AMA already has a youth card.
Theme:
"The AMA is not growing"

Debate the points in which are being argued:
1. Cost
2. old guard vs the new
3. Hobby vs a must
4. AMA not stepping up
5. kids

On #5 people debate kids have no problem buying expensive games for what ever the new system is to date. OK kids can buy them used or swap out with friends and yes go new. But tell me how many of those kids go outside their home? Know take the percent that do wander outside (not the mall) how many activities do their parents throw down their throat? Rule out the intravert then the 5 star althete or soon to be new Britant Spears what do you have left. How is your club trying to reach them? What should AMA do to capture them? Better yet a Dad and Son combo... What is your marketing plan?

fliers1

Basically, the best marketing plan is to bypass the AMA and clubs and have a business meeting with members of the industry, starting with the few hobby shops that are left. BTW, we are losing 25 hobby shop PER MONTH. AMA is staying afloat no matter what, but unlike clubs, the industry has a bottom line to contend with.

Talk it over with Don Anderson of Great Planes and the CEOs of some of the other major distributors.

Ok, here it comes. "You can't do that because___________" fill in the blanks. lol

Fliers1

fireman350

Right here is part of the problem with the clubs recruiting new members, yes there is these new wonderful electric planes and I love them but I know the endless hours of toil to build a kit I've done it before and I am Building a Busa 1/3 scale J-3 right now but I've had a Nosen P-51 some of you older guys may remember that Tank of a plane , but to say it takes no skill to fly a foamy ? My brushless foam Pitts is more of a handful than my Nosen ever was and guess what my right stick makes my elevator wiggle and my ailerons sway to and from and my left stick makes my rudder shake and if I push it forward guess what my propeller spins faster last I checked all the same things apply to all those super skilled pilots who chose to fly nitro and gasoline airplanes. I can fly a nitro any day I choose I choose not to . Are there easy foam aircraft to fly you bet they call them trainers ones that dont need all of the extra purchases just to make the spinny end work. The ONLY skill your average park flier doesn't have is the skill to tune a engine but I'm quite certain if a few more people were open minded to letting some of these electric planes on there fields and not looking down their noses at them these young new pilots might just covet your beautiful 1/4 scale and might come to you and ask you how and move on to their very own

nachman4859

My Feedback: (3)

[&:] I think I was a little bit too in general On the Foamy Comment... I meant the 2 ch Self Correcting (big Dihedral) guide it with a rudder /elevator only. Not a 3D Foamy Which are very challenging I have a few of those myself . and fly them in my neighborhood.. You get the point . I can fly this plane at my house .... I dont need anything Special , Field ,Insurance ,ect,instructor. That is the point I was trying to Make is Some of the 3D Foamy Pilots Would Outfly Us in If you gave him a 25% or bigger bird . But how do you get them to graduate to the next level ... Thats the point and that is where We as club Officers and Club Members are Failing...[] This new group that is Satisfied with Flying in the Backyard or local Park... He's or She the one We Need.... How do you Do that... ? Nachman

chugger13

My Feedback: (19)

obtaining park flyers is like making friends. Introduce yourself and have them over to the field also believe AMA has a 1 day waiver. Look do you need AMA for park flyer well its an opinion one way or another... But do yourself a favor visit your insurance agent and make sure your hobby is covered under the Home owner policy and would recommend a 1 million dollar umbrella policy to boot if you do not carry AMA.

theriddler33872

jeez we agree on something kboob and even after all your put downs to me chuggers13 seems to have his ducks in a row opps am i being manic again aw'shucks darn i wish my deploma from viginia tech was written in crayon then maybe iwould be able to hang wit yous'guys'
but i choos da'low road and became a CA addict instead . [X(]

theriddler33872

the only reasons i have chosen not to join is not because the club would be better off with out me (that is kinda a put down but i'll get over it) nor do i feel the need to defend myself to a "name caller" or anyone else my feelings did not get hurt because i don't have any feelings, at least thats what my x-wife keeps telling me.

1. negitive attitudes from there membership of the AMA maybe as i've said before some people should not be speaking out on there behalf you are not making things any better for them it's the maybe there better off with out mentality that helps in the decline so keep it up your destroying the AMA without my help ..........

2. well if the clubs didn't prey on it's own members with club fee's that can not be explained except with the "we charge what we want" theory as i've stated some clubs are charging not based off of taxs, rent or the other there making a profitt from it's own members and that is something i do not agree with

3. i've asked this question once and for some strange reason not one of you AMA'ers answered it which was has you or your club helped out a member down and out with his or her rent, bills or even club membership , what i got instead was insults from the big bad almighty AMA gee i wonder why someone like myself may be fighting against you should be for anyone with a I.Q higher then 10 self explanatory .

4. and finally yup i fly for free although i would love to get involved i just seem to feel that i am the outsider in all of this and thats were alot of you almighty AMA'ers want me so be it .................................................. ........................

and as i've said before if you want to play the name calling game you are more then welcome to PM me so we can keep the forum clean, don't be scared i still can't see you over a PM so you'll be safe in your own home from me or is it you feel more mighty when you degrade someone in public ..........................

fireman350

Its simple at least for pilots like me give me a surface to fly from and people that dont thumb their noses at my foam planes and treat me and my aircraft equal to theirs and I'd belong to the club and the AMA treat us park fliers as equals true our aircraft dont cost what yours do and yes I may not have pour the hours of blood sweat and tears into that aircraft but why should a foam have to " graduate " please dont think I'm trying to be condescending. All I am saying is fly with us give the foam a chance treat us as equals and we will do the same for you we might even give your insurance and free magazine a try (again for some of us) again
1. Treat us as a fellow Pilot we use 95% the same skill set
2. work with us to make a field we can both use use little wheels dont like grass much it might be simply spraying a strip of pramitol 25e

theriddler33872

ok i'm out ........................................ i think the post that was pulled was not directed towards anyone so sorry if it was i've been getting bashed and have yet to say anything guess AMA'ers can't take the abuse .................................... done !