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Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

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Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

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Old 01-03-2005, 11:51 PM
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BasinBum
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Default Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

While perusing through the January 2005 issue of MA I came across the Safety article by Dave Gee (page 106). Upon close inspection of the two photos at the bottom of the page I realized that they were taken at my beloved Sepulveda Basin (see humongous thread in the Clubhouse). The lower right photo depicting proper spacing and positioning is hilarious to anyone familiar with the Basin. You see the guy on the right is standing in the spot that is commonly reffered to as the "kill zone". He also has his back turned to the normal traffic pattern of a taking off or landing plane and is in a prime spot to be injured from a slightly out of control plane.

We had an incident about two months ago where a pilot standing on that exact spot was hit with a plane which severed an artery in his leg and if it wasn't for the first aid training of some of our fellow pilots he surely would have died (according to the paramedics and doctors who treated him).

You see, or in the case of the picture you don't see, that the taxiway in the center of the picture is the middle of our run way. Depending on the wind direction pilots should stand on the pilot pads closer to the approach because typically planes that are out of control end up farther down the run way. I have seen numerous planes land on the very spot the pilot on the right is standing. The gentleman sitting on the rolling chair is an instructor at the field. A few weeks ago I cautioned him from teaching his students to stand at the far end of the pilot stations to the right of the taxiway in the pic. Last week I watched a large warbird tip stall after a botched landing and he ran from his chair as the plane crashed at his feet.

Additionally when people stand at that side of the taxiway they cannot hear or be heard by the people flying from the pilot stations on the other side.

To see that particular photo being used to teach safety in MA is really, really ironic.
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Old 01-04-2005, 12:43 AM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

BasinBum,

In recent times I have come to think that the AMA preaches safety but seems to do so for form rather than substance. For some time now many of us have been trying to get a definition of exactly what the AMA WANTS us to do with the required Safety Officer. Files (.pdf) came and went on the AMA site discussing the job and there still does not seem to be a reasonable answer anyone can share with the club. Your observations (and someone else's actually, but I could not figure out what the problem was - DUH!) is just more of the same caliber of 'help' to the hobby.

However, there is always Dr. H. Sanford Frank and his District Safety Coordinator, Don Nix. They are having a Dutch treat dinner where AMA members can attend and discuss " CLUB REQUIRED SAFETY OFFICERS ". Wonder who is going to be doing the talking and what might be said.
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Old 01-04-2005, 02:57 AM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum

//snip//
However, there is always Dr. H. Sanford Frank and his District Safety Coordinator, Don Nix. They are having a Dutch treat dinner where AMA members can attend and discuss " CLUB REQUIRED SAFETY OFFICERS ". Wonder who is going to be doing the talking and what might be said.

Haven't heard about this dinner. [X(] Of course neither will ever get any info sent my way! Here I am going to be the Safety officer of a large club and I ain't even gonna' be invited to a dutch treat taco bash. [sm=stupid.gif] Oh the shame of it!!!!
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Old 01-04-2005, 08:02 AM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

The picture only shows proper spacing. It was almost certainly staged, and staged for that one purpose. That one person is standing in the so-called "kill zone" is irrelevant, applies only to this particular field, and would only be noticed by someone who flies there.

It only becomes an issue if someone takes that picture literally, goes to the Basin, and stands in that exact spot "because the picture said it was okay to stand here." Anybody stupid enough to take the picture literally wouldn't be able to figure out where it was taken, frankly. Even if that person did figure out where to stand, if the rest of you "Basin bums" don't grab them by the collar and drag them to a proper flight station, SHAME ON YOU.
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Old 01-04-2005, 08:05 AM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

Sadly,
I am the president and field marshall of our club and this is the first I have heard of any dinner discussion on safety and its implementation. Oh well,I never get to sit at lunch witht he cool kids.


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Old 01-04-2005, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

LOL!

Dr. H. Sanford Frank is only the District VIII AMA VP. I am sure you would be welcome. The following is a quote of his comments.

BOB'S CATFISH N'MORE RESTARAUNT
305 East Marrow
G'Town , TEXAS
(this is the place which is very close to the site of the event)

512-863-6219

Friday JAN 14,2005

it will be come and go styled for between 7 and 9 pm

( AGAIN !!! It will be a Dutch Treat Dinner for ALL AMA MEMBERS )
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Old 01-04-2005, 10:35 AM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum


In recent times I have come to think that the AMA preaches safety but seems to do so for form rather than substance. For some time now many of us have been trying to get a definition of exactly what the AMA WANTS us to do with the required Safety Officer. Files (.pdf) came and went on the AMA site discussing the job and there still does not seem to be a reasonable answer anyone can share with the club.
Hey Jim-
Read the minutes of the last EC confab. What they want re the club SO is a mole to report potential liability incidents directly back to AMA HQ, whether or not there is an anticipated insurance claim. Reporting forms are being prepared, so the EC has apparently given tacit approval to the scheme - see if you can find a related motion/vote.
Y'all remember the political officer in military units of the former USSR?

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Old 01-04-2005, 10:36 AM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

Matt,
I understand the picture is just to illustrate a point. I can almost guarantee that it wasn't staged since I know the guy on the left and he 's out there a lot in the same spot. Many of us bums frequently try to educate people of the reasons to not stand to the right of the center taxiway and I would have mentioned it to the gentleman in the picture right after I took the shot if I were Dave Gee. I am confident that you are just illustrating a point as well with your "drag them by the collar" statement which strikes me as silly as using this particular picture for a safety article.
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Old 01-04-2005, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

Hi Matt

Your comments seem "on target" to me.

Wasn't it just a few months ago that this same group was lamenting the lack of a saftey column in MA? Now there is one, being written by someone that seems to have a clue about safety and model aviation.

I guess the urge to pick everything to pieces is human nature. Seems to me that since Dave Gee resides in Van Nuys, essentially where the Basin is located, that he probably flies there from time to time. That, along with the fact that he has a published e-mail address, looks like an opportunity, for those "Bums" that are so inclined, to meet him and potentially have some input into the column.
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Old 01-04-2005, 06:45 PM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

Gosh, JR being on the side of anything AMA....go figure. I did e-mail Dave about the picture and he replied that he knew it was a bad place to stand but figured nobody would know. He also said he used it because the the guy in the wheelchair has a spotter and good spacing. I pointed out that in actuality it's a student on a buddy cord, another irony of him using that picture.

I have no problem with the safety column, the content of that particular column or the AMA's pursuit of safety. It's just a lousy choice of a picture for those of us who know what the picture actually is.

JR, you must be excited about this weekend when you can see everyone from the AMA and discuss all the issues near and dear to your heart. It's probably better than a whole month of fun fly's huh?
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Old 01-04-2005, 06:58 PM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

ROFLOL!
Yeah, I remember those guys. Never figured they would make it here! Then I joined the AMA and boy was *I* surprised!

See if you can find any club officer willing to spend the time to fill out MORE paperwork instead of flying. Another great thing the AMA is doing for about 12,000 members (2500 clubs times 5 officers). Wonder how many of them love it.

To probably misquote one of the very last lines in one of my favorite movies (it followed the book better than any movie I have ever seen), "A little revolution now and then is a good thing". I smell a revolt coming, how about you?
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Old 01-04-2005, 08:09 PM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

down through the years, one statement seems to sum up the attitude of the editorial staff at MA and safety issues that may or may not be pictured/wrote about in each issue.

"do as i say do, not as i do."
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Old 01-05-2005, 01:04 AM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

Mongo,
I guess it was in 1985 when I got real crossway's with Bob U because my club and I wanted to sanction an R/C combat event. On the phone he very tersely told me that there was no way he would ever allow a sanction to be issued for such an unsafe activity. Shortly after that we stopped flying R/C combat. You don't happen to remember when the first combat rules made the rule book do you? How about when the first reports of R/C combat made MA. I do and that absolutely confirms your assessment.

They are trying real hard to convince me that the AMA exists to suck the fun out of aeromodeling. AMA is helping them!
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Old 01-05-2005, 12:13 PM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

Mongo, you missed the point. The picture shows nothing unsafe. The CONTEXT, what you CAN'T SEE in the picture, is what people are picking apart. What you can't see in that picture is that one person is standing in a well-known danger zone. That's all. For the purposes of the article, who cares if they're standing in the middle of your living room, or in the middle of a railroad crossing with the gates down?

It's not about safety, it's about nit-picking.
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Old 01-05-2005, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

Matt,
You missed the point. It's not about nit-picking, it's about irony.
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Old 01-05-2005, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: Safety Comes First???? You gotta be kidding!

amen


also, not that it was an observation over time.

things like the pic of the nut taching the motor from in front of the prop being shown as the proper proceedure.
this stuff has been going on for many years.
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