Hossfly

2005 Safety Code, now General #6: "I will not fly my model aircraft unless it is identified with my name and address, or AMA number, inside or affixed to the outside of the model aircraft. This does not apply to model aircraft flown indoors."

AMA Rule Book, 2002-2004 Don't have new one yet. "All models except indoor will be identified with the owner's name and address or AMA License number on or in the model. Individual events listed within this (Competition Regulations) (sic) may have additional identification requirements which must be adhered to."

And to those that don't believe sugar will do the works on an engine, then give it a try. [>:] Never take my word for it.
Back long time ago, in summers I worked on pipelines, Union Jobs from AR to PA/NJ, to LA, to MO, to Vancouver BC. On one 'nearby' location, big squabble and trucks and tractors shut down. How dey do dat? DamnifIknow. [X(]

yard-dart

My Feedback: (35)

You really wanna get their attention? Try Drano crystals in a ziploc bag. Seal the bag and force it into the gas tank (newer models have screens in the fill line so it may not make it to the tank). You might wanna run like hell!

Roby

The guy who crashed his plane and didn't have his name on/in it didn't
comply with a particular rule. But this rule doesn't define any finders rights either.

The guy who found it , is none the less a thief. If he is that desperate for equipment
you'd better have someone baby sit your flight box when your flying.

In my many years of RC modeling I've never heard of such nonsense.

Roby

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

OK, we've establishe that the guy didn't have his name/address on the plane and therefore would not technically be covered by AMA insurance in the event of an incident....but that does not by default give the second guy the right to keep the plane.

I guess technically, he did not steal the plane because it was found in a field. However, he does know who the rightful owner is and refuses to return it. That is the type of person I wouldn't trust or want in my club. The officers should take action to kick him out. Others should give him the cold shoulder.

That's JMO.

Hossfly

All the joking and funny fixes aside, Roby you are, IMO, 101% correct. I have heard of such and in a number of ways.

Items that slowly changed my naive thinking about modelers being a bunch of really good people all with a common interest to enjoy a great sport/hobby started back when I was in my 20s. Items like: CL Stunt Contest: Had a special restricter in the engine venturi, went over for some lunch at close to site cafe, came back and getting ready for my 2nd official, I found the restricter had been removed. Some said XXX and friend had been seen *admiring* the airplane. I rammed a piece of bass wood into the venturi, got it running OK and beat his butt anyway.
Most of all, when I owned a Hobby Shop in Mt. Prospect, IL, Aero-Sports, I was very disillusioned at how RC guys that were supposedly friends would shop-lift. One even told me a sob-story about wife throwing his stuff away and leaving him. I sold him a new Kraft competition radio and 2 airplanes at MY COST. He wrote me a hot check and left the wife for a girl friend in Denver. Never collected on that. Hard to believe sometimes.
I knew of 2 ardent RCers that retrieved a Beginner's trainer from a tree while he was gone to get a ladder. They stole it. Why? How can one figure? They were both well beyond any need for a trainer. Finally it was found out, and one guy quit the hobby because of his shame and the other tried to join our club but was told "No Way". Have no idea where he finally went to.
There are thieves among us.

50+AirYears

Most of the conflicts I've seen at our field didn't involve seniors unless it was a senior taking somebody to task for infractions like repeatedly flying over the pits or flying without a muffler, or in one case, deliberately doing aerobatics over a neighbors house. At least two of the conflicts involved guys in their early 40s getting into arguements after giving up flying for the day and loading up on beer. One of these two almost lost us the field, since he started teeing off on the property owner over something that had happened to a small structure on the field area owned by the landlord.

I don't recall any of the conflicts I've seen at any of the fields I've been to getting as far as punches being thrown.

3dd

My Feedback: (6)

any good club has bylaws that pertain to stealing and unsportsman like conduct so they should have to deal with it.and my 2 cents says he should be removed from the club roster

50+AirYears

But aren't a lot of posts complaining about there being too many rules now?

J_R

By and large, the complaints about rules are complaints about AMA rules, not club rules.

dicknadine

pros and coms aside. it sounds like that club is TOTALLY screwed up and they fight with themseves, which side of the bed they shud get up on in the morning. why perpetuate the discussion, let the local members settle it. go back to your own modeling and run your own club your way-- you have similar situations. enough said. its off my chest. dick

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

According to something I heard today, if this was in Pennsylvania the guy keeping the found airplane is breaking the law. I would probably no bother to pass that on to him as he clearly does not care.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

A new twist. Would the model be insured? It was stolen at an AMA field. Wouldn't the land owner/club be responsible?

jeffo

My Feedback: (68)

Guys,I am pleased with your response.
I would like a a straight up answer.If someone finds a plane at your field does the person who owns it,lose ownership.(finders keepers)
It is a shame that a couple of members can make things lousy for everyone else.
P.S.Is it common that every club has a major Knucklehead.
Jeffo


Dick Nadineid you finish your canard biplane?

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

It seems you are asking about club rules. No, my club has no rules specifying common decency rather we assume them. If a pair of special folks such as yours took similar actions, they probably would be removed from the membership for cause. However, that would take a vote of the general membership at a special meeting called just for that purpose (probably as an adjunct to the regular monthly meeting) and the culprits would be able to explain themselves. Theft is not looked upon kindly and physical violence is frowned on by all.

BSR

My Feedback: (2)

TO ALL OF YOU OUT THERE,

THERE IS NOTHING WORSE THAN A THIEF AT A FLYING CLUB, OR AN OLD GESIERD THAT HAS NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN COMPLANE ABOUT SMALL ISSUES LIKE FLYING BEHIND FLIGHT LINESOR NOT TURNING JUST PAST BARBER POLES. YOU GUYS WORK

TO HARD FOR YOUR MONEY TO ENJOY WHAT LITTLE TIME AT THE FIELD YOU FLY AT.

A.M.A. STATES THE OLY REASON YOUR PLANE SHOULD HAVE AMA# AND PERSONALID IS FOR AN INSURANCE CLAIM ONLY..............
IT IS NOT A RULE THAT YOUR PLANE HAS TO BE IDENIFIED.

AND FOR ALL THE GUYS THAT QUIT FLYING BECAUSE OF SOME OLD FART THAT FORGOT HIS FIBER PILL THE DAY BEFORE DONT WORY NOTHING LASTS FOREVER.

SSRCCPREZ

I think I agree with most of what you stated,BSR. I do however disagree with the notion that flying behind a flightline is a small issue. That is a major safety issue that threatens all at the field. More to the point theft and physical violence at a place people go to enjoy an activity in their leisure time is completely intolerable. I can say that beyond what we would do by by-law to this individual at our meetings, this gentlemen would be met with some frequency issues at the field. I do not condone this action, nor would I participate in it, because I do not believe an eye for an eye, I am merely stating what I have seen and that things like this have a way of working themselves out.

Hossfly

In reverse order: With that attitude and lack of knowledge, you won't last long, much less forever, at those fields where some semblance of order is maintained, and fliers are expected to have some degree of self-discipline and respect for the welfare of their fellow pilots.

Aircraft identification is required by AMA Safety Code, General #6. At my field, owned by a Chartered Club, only AMA members fly, and all rules are expected to be observed. The Safety Code is a guide for insurance but not ONLY for insurance.

Clubs that have worked and funded their own flying facilities do not owe the member anything. The member owes it all to the club.

I would love to have you visit my club and fly behind the flight line and then ignore it when any CMbr. advises you that such is not tolerated. I do go to various events and only one large area-club tolerates such, but only a considerable distance from the staging areas and then for those that are unable to fly a right-handed landing pattern.

Have a nice whatever of your choice but not behind my flight-line.

J_R

The identification of a plane with the information mandated by the Safety Code has never played a part in any insurance claim the AMA has handled. If you think every plane in every claim had the information on it, you are mistaken. Your statement that it is an insurance requirement is a falsehood.

Certainly, thieves are not acceptable in club, but, then, neither are they acceptable in the rest of society. We have these amazing things called laws to prohibit such activity. Relying on the rule of law might be the best approach on this topic.

Someone else raised the thought that theft insurance might cover this situation, and there is some truth to that. However, any insurance is going to require proof of loss. In a case like this, such proof is normally a police report. IF an attempt to make a police report takes place, and the facts are as stated by the original poster, it is probably the case that the police will intercede. The issue might well be resolved in such a manner.

Another approach would be to take the offender to small claims court and obtain a judgment, again, if the facts are as posted.

Just a final thought... there are jerks in every age group, and you have made that clear.

BSR

My Feedback: (2)

I MENT TO SAY SOME OF OUR NEW PEOPLE GOT IN TROUBLE BY ACCIDENT AND PLANES WENT JUST BEHIND FLIGHTLINE FOR ASHORT TIME ,NOT FLYING LIKE THAT ALL TIME NO WE WONT TOLLERATE THAT. BUT THE RULES ARE IN PLACE OUT HERE.
BUT SOME PEOPLE JUST DONT KNOW WHEN TO LEAVE OLD ISSUES ALONE.
PS CHARTER CLUB AS WELL
AMA SAID THISMORNING DOES NOT REQUIRE INFO IN PLANE

50+AirYears

Most pilots with some experience can tell when someone gets over the pits and flight line by accident or by intent. In our club, if a group of pilots are whooping it up and kidding, and maybe one of the more experienced pilots gets up and walks over in case the offender needs some help, you know it was an accident. If they start cussing, turning red, and one or two go running over shouting, it's generally because the offender is obviously doing it on purpose. These offenders are rarely in the club for more than a year. They get somewhat put out about being ragged on for stupid unsafe flying. They are usually the ones who complain about too many rules, too.
By the way, our club has been around so long that only a couple of the charter members are still around, although in poor health. We are on our third field, and have never been thrown out of any because we deal with stupidity. We've never actually expelled anybody, but they end up quitting, usually going away mad. I've been a member for about 27 years, and it was at least 30 years old when I joined.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

OK all BS aside. If I lost a plane in a field and truly had given up on finding it I would consider it fair game to anyone that might seek and find it. Of course I would appreciate it if the fellow would offer it back and he would be compensated accordingly. But on the other hand, if I intended to regroup and continue my search at a later time, I would be SURE to make those that had witnessed the loss aware that I fully intend to continue my search later and therefore anyone attempting or was successful in finding the plane would be on notice.

Mike in DC

Unfortunately, it does happen. Something similar happened at our club. One difference was that the plane had been lost for quite a while, at least a few months. Still, the owner was quickly identified (it's amazing how people remember their friends' lost planes!), but the finder refused to return the plane. (Actually, by the time it was found, the plane was worthless, but the owner wanted the engine back.) In this case we have a very strong board, and I don't know the details, but in a quiet fashion, the finder became a former club member.

crownvic

I dont no what planet you people are living on but this crap goes on all the time! Its a do what I want to do and if you dont like it tuff ****. Its just time to kick ass and take names

Lonnie

50+AirYears

As I understand it, the guy who found the plane was present at the time the plane was originally lost, watched the owner searching for it until the owner had to leave for whatever reason, then went out and recovered the lost plane.

If I understand those facts correctly, then unless the owner called out that anybody who found it could keep it:
A) The finder was present and watching when the plane went in.
B) The finder knew to whom the plane belonged.
C) The finder apparently had a better line on where the plane went in than the owner did.
D) The finder apparently, if he had any honesty, common decency, or manhood, could have assisted the owner in finding it.
E) The owner was able to identify the plane while in the possesion of the finder.
1)Therefore, in my opinion, the finder is a thief, and has a moral and legal obligation to return the plane.
2) The club officers are wimps who aren't standing up for the best interests of the club. Get new ones the next election.

jeffo

My Feedback: (68)

50 plus
You got it completely nailed down.The officers are afraid of any confrontation.
In a little more detail the guy who decked the thief was the owners best friend.Two months went by and the pres. did not resolve it.The theif was actually trying to sell it at the field.At the time I did know it was a stolen plane. The friend confronted him(thief),tried to at least get his 65 saito back,the thief told the friend to f-off,nasty words were exchanged,then shoving,then the friend decked him in the head.
After all this the officers still have done nothing.Our meeting is coming up shortly,and I am told it will be real dicy.Can't wait.
Jeffo


P.S. some guys are afraid that the thief will shoot planes down in revenge. What a bunch of wimps.