Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > AMA Discussions
Reload this Page >

What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Notices
AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Old 01-24-2005, 10:27 PM
  #26  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: onrecess

Wow! I thought nothing was really possible, but you have some great ideas. Sure worth a try.
Thanks. Sales and marketing are what I do for a living so it is simply a question of identifying your market, what they care about and finding entry through that vehicle.

They care about flying, fun, free stuff and being successful learning to fly. Most would like to fly with others, even if they say they don't want to join a club. Many would if it was easy and they knew the club was close.

They don't care about insurance, the FCC, federal regulations, national contests or any of that big stuff. RTF flyers typically don't care about kits, balsa wood, the history of modeling and all that tradition stuff. I didn't care when I got my first RTF. Did you care?

But I did send in all the cards for free magazines, catalogues and that kind of stuff.

So, if they are going to be interested in the AMA, then the appeal has to be through something that interests them.
Old 01-25-2005, 09:03 AM
  #27  
yard-dart
My Feedback: (35)
 
yard-dart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: West Monroe, LA
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Why even consider it? It's a damn park flyer! What in the world would you need from the AMA. As someone stated above, they would be paying more for the AMA membership than what their plane is worth.

We just got a hobby shop here locally. I've been in there every day since it opened. I've seen people looking at the park flyers there. The owner hasn't mentioned anything to them about joining the AMA. Why should he? They don't have to go to the airfield to fly. They can do that in the street in front of their house, or in their back yard. The cost of joining a club, plus the cost of the AMA membership, it just doesn't make sense!

We're talking about park flyers fellas, not nitro powered aircraft. There is a huge difference. One thing's for sure, if I didn't fly nitro and I only flew electrics, I know for a fact that I wouldn't pay for AMA.

With due respect J R, this is a wasted thread.
Old 01-25-2005, 01:48 PM
  #28  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: yard-dart

Why even consider it? It's a damn park flyer! What in the world would you need from the AMA. As someone stated above, they would be paying more for the AMA membership than what their plane is worth.

We just got a hobby shop here locally. I've been in there every day since it opened. I've seen people looking at the park flyers there. The owner hasn't mentioned anything to them about joining the AMA. Why should he? They don't have to go to the airfield to fly. They can do that in the street in front of their house, or in their back yard. The cost of joining a club, plus the cost of the AMA membership, it just doesn't make sense!

We're talking about park flyers fellas, not nitro powered aircraft. There is a huge difference. One thing's for sure, if I didn't fly nitro and I only flew electrics, I know for a fact that I wouldn't pay for AMA.

With due respect J R, this is a wasted thread.
Yard-dart,

I see your position, but I don't agree with it based on personal experience. You seem to think that because a person starts on a parkflyer, that is all they will be flying. I don't believe that is true. Parkflyers are just a new entry path into the hobby. I started on a parflyer. I have 5 parkflyers and 11 gliders/sailplanes.

I sought out a club shortly after getting my plane because I felt I would have a better chance of being a successful pilot. I also enjoy the company of other pilots. The cost of entry into the club was an AMA card, a county resident card and a county flying permit, plus dues and initation. Total for that was $160. I paid $180 for the plane.

I don't see the relevence of hte cost of the plane to the cost of club membership. While I would have liked it to be smaller, I paid it because I saw this as the best path to my success. It was a good move, I was right, and after two years I am having a ball.

We get new parkflyer pilots in the club each month who follow the same profile as myself. I have made myself known to the local hobby stores and they send their new parkflyer pilots to me and to our club because they know they will be well recieved.

For the guys who don't come to us or who are not refered to us, I have suggested some other ways to help them find a club or the AMA. I outlined that above.

People rarely look to join AMA on their own. Why? I don't even know how to fly, what does the AMA offer me that I care about. nothing.

People look for help learning to fly. Or they seek the community of like minded people. Either way, they know that a club is the best path to those things. I would expect AMA chartered clubs to be the primary source of new members for the AMA.

The kind of plane you start on has nothing to do with it.
Old 01-25-2005, 02:29 PM
  #29  
yard-dart
My Feedback: (35)
 
yard-dart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: West Monroe, LA
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

aeajr,

I understand what you're saying. Yes, the person will more than likely graduate from a park flyer and move one to something bigger and better. But, what if they don't? Say, for instance, that a person goes and buys a park flyer. He is told that he needs to join the AMA. He joins. He flies his parky for a month or so and decides he is no longer interested in planes, period. He just blew $58.00. Sure, it's not a lot, but it's something, and it's gone.

If this same person decides to move on to bigger planes, we both know that there is a good chance that the local hobby shop he is buying from will ask him if he knows how to fly. The newby will say that he's been flying electrics for a while and feels confident that he can fly a nitro powered plane. If the shop owner has any descency about him, he'll tell the newby that it's a good bit different than an electric, mainly more dangerous. The owner would inform him that there is a local club, and that he would need to get with someone there to learn how to fly this "next step" plane. Once the newby contacts the club, he will find out that he will need to join the AMA, and why it's needed.

Now, you and I know that this is a hypothetical situation, and not actual. It is close though. We know that there are many times that a newby just hops online, buys a plane, and goes out to lord knows where and tries to fly it. This happens all the time. Trying to get park flyers into the AMA is going to be hard. In fact, I think it's a waste of time. People are just as apt to find out about the AMA just by looking on line as they are any way else. Once park flyer people find out what the AMA is all about, they're probably going to say "to hell with that". From that point on, they will know that if they choose to get into larger planes, they'll need to join AMA.

Just how I see it happening,

John
Old 01-25-2005, 02:38 PM
  #30  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: yard-dart

aeajr,

I understand what you're saying. .

Just how I see it happening,

John
That's what makes these forums great! We all get to voice our points of view. Other readers can jump in or just sit back and enjoy the discussion.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and making this a fun debate.

Ed Anderson
aeajr [8D]
Old 01-25-2005, 04:18 PM
  #31  
Live Wire
Senior Member
 
Live Wire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

You know it is getting interesting how many O.F.s are getting the Schock treat ment
Old 01-25-2005, 05:32 PM
  #32  
onrecess
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: yard-dart

Why even consider it? It's a damn park flyer! What in the world would you need from the AMA. As someone stated above, they would be paying more for the AMA membership than what their plane is worth.
Well, I think you might find that park fliers cost more than you think. I think what most new fliers want is the same new fliers always want: to learn to fly a "cool-looking" plane. The way there is what is in question. Sure, some people might actually teach themselves and graduate to that "cool" plane someday, but most will become discouraged by the increasing cost of crashed toys. With aeajr's ideas, perhaps the AMA and local clubs could reach them and help them reach that goal. Have you flown some of these "Firebird" type planes? Talk about crappy flight characteristics! I bought a Firebird (while I flew a Tequila Sunrise .40, a pretty snappy bird) and tried to fly at the school yard. Climb was more theoretical than actual, turns were a joke- about 100 feet wide. I couldn't keep it out of the trees. Not worth a hill of beans. Graduating to a "cool" plane, even a parkflier "jet" would be like going from a glow trainer to a turbine. Fat chance. With his ideas and club training most would be able to advance to a "cool" plane, and- if the club had club trainers- probably for about the same or less money than the series of crashed park flier route.
Old 01-25-2005, 10:47 PM
  #33  
bdavison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 3,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Something you guys are missing is that a majority of these parkflyers are going on to flying 3D foam planes. 3D foam flying is hardly a beginners hobby. I know I fly them. Alot of the electric flyers are getting aweful tired of gas/glow flyers not giving their type of model aviation any respect. Its the same type of attitude the control line, and free flight flyers get.

I fly both gas/glow, and electric flight. Im just getting started in 3D indoor electric flight. For any of you gas/glow folks that think parkflyers are just toys, go try 3D indoor flight with a good 3D foam plane. Your in for a education. Its not easy.

This type of attitude is also a reason for the parkflyers not having any interest in the AMA. They associate it with those flyers that keep telling them all they fly is toys.

I have tryed to learn as much as possible from all different types of model aviation. For example:

Free Flight study has taught me how to build lightly, trim an airplane properly, and understand how wind and air forces act on airfoils. If you really want to learn how to trim an airplane to absolute perfection, go talk to a free-flight flyer.

Control Line - Taught me how to stay "three steps" ahead of the airplane. Also how to squeeze every last amount of power out of a motor.

Pattern Flight - How to fly smoothly, how to perform maneuvers correctly. Lots of people can fly, but if you really want to learn how to make everything fluid, go talk to a Pattern Flyer.

3D Flight - How to make planes do things planes should not do. How to shave every last gram off a planes weight. How electronics work. Ive learned more about calculating thrust to weight ratios from electric flight then from any other type of flying.

I'm just saying give the parkflyers more credit, than just considering them some "toy" flying associates. Many of these guys are top-notch pilots, that could outfly many of the flyers that give them flak.
Old 01-25-2005, 11:49 PM
  #34  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: bdavison

Something you guys are missing is that a majority of these parkflyers are going on to flying 3D foam planes. 3D foam flying is hardly a beginners hobby. I know I fly them. Alot of the electric flyers are getting aweful tired of gas/glow flyers not giving their type of model aviation any respect. Its the same type of attitude the control line, and free flight flyers get.

I fly both gas/glow, and electric flight. Im just getting started in 3D indoor electric flight. For any of you gas/glow folks that think parkflyers are just toys, go try 3D indoor flight with a good 3D foam plane. Your in for a education. Its not easy.

This type of attitude is also a reason for the parkflyers not having any interest in the AMA. They associate it with those flyers that keep telling them all they fly is toys.

.........................

I'm just saying give the parkflyers more credit, than just considering them some "toy" flying associates. Many of these guys are top-notch pilots, that could outfly many of the flyers that give them flak.
I agree with you 100%. If my experience with clubs had been limited to the arrogant bunch of close minded b..... [:@] boys at the first club, I too would be flying in parks a long way away from AMA and its clubs.

I ran into a similar attitude at some of the electric clubs who would not accept pilots on 27 MHz. I will say that they were nice about it and invited me to join, but I could not fly the Aerobird there. So I did not join them either. I think at least 4 clubs rejected my Aerobird and I.

Fortunately I found the Long Island Silent Flyers, a sailplane/electric club that welcomes electric flyers, even the ones on 27 MHz. In fact the President of the club started on an Firebird XL. Now he flies competition 3M sailplanes.

The hobby shops send their glow customers to one club, they send their electrics to us. Sometimes I am working with 2 or 3 new flyers in rotation on the same day. The first club I mentioned above does not get nearly as many referrals due to their arrogance.

Even when I go there to watch them fly the glow planes, just for fun, the resentment of an electric/sailplane flyer is pretty clear. However a few are starting to open their eyes.

A few weeks ago, I had just come from flying so I had 2 parkies, a 2M sailplane and a 3M sailplane in the car. Decided to stop at the Aerodrome where they fly the glow ships. I like to watch sometimes even though I have not interest in flying glow. They have some pretty cool planes and some of the pilots are pretty good.

I got talking with some of the spectators. A bunch of prospective flyers wanted to know all about what I had. Next thing I know I have a crowd around the back of my car and I am showing planes and no one is watching the glow guys fly. ($150 for everything? You can get it how high? No motor? ) Then a couple of the glow guys came over. After the crowd moved off they wanted to know why I had not joined their club. I told them. They were so surprised. Amazing.

I think we picked up another new member that day.

It is tragic when a new pilot, regardless of what he is flying, is rejected, ridiculed and belittled by an AMA club member or, in this case, members. I can understand that not all clubs admit all kinds of planes and all types of flying. That's OK. But don't be nasty about it.

Clearly most AMA clubs are made up of good guys having a good time. They extend a warm hand to new prospective members, but there are still too many out there that think glow is all there is and everything else is toys or foolishness.

Now look what you made me do! Got my hackles up!

Think beautiful thoughts! Your Aerobird is flying beautifully. Your sailplane is in a thermal and rising. The slope lift is wonderful and endless. Your discus launches are higher than ever. The Aerotow is going so well.

OK, I'm happy again! Let's play planes!!!
Old 01-26-2005, 12:03 AM
  #35  
Hossfly
 
Hossfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Caney, TX
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: bdavison

Something you guys are missing is that a majority of these parkflyers are going on to flying 3D foam planes. 3D foam flying is hardly a beginners hobby. I know I fly them. Alot of the electric flyers are getting aweful tired of gas/glow flyers not giving their type of model aviation any respect. Its the same type of attitude the control line, and free flight flyers get.

//snip//

I'm just saying give the parkflyers more credit, than just considering them some "toy" flying associates. Many of these guys are top-notch pilots, that could outfly many of the flyers that give them flak.

Agreed. Lots of those contraptions showing up at our field. Cute little devils too! Been lookin' at 'em more and more, but shucks, I don't think I could, well maybe, Oh gee!

Hey, if AMA wants to get the small electric crowd in, just put out the word that AMA IS CLOSED TO THOSE PEOPLE PRIMARILY INTERESTED IN THOSE ELECTRICS DEFINED AS PARK FLIERS. Then they will come pounding on the doors and demanding equal treatment.

Then AMA says, Well, we'uns reckons if you boys jest really wants to, we guesses ya'll can COME ON IN! Works with everything else!
Old 01-26-2005, 07:22 AM
  #36  
Roby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: AMESBURY, MA,
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

I've read some of the threads but not all.
IMO I feel that there is very little the AMA can do to attract
the park flyer individual that isn't already a member

From what Ive seen , people will only do something if there is an
advantage to them to do so. Lets face it , no one will do something
if it will be , or turns out to be , a disadvantage. SO they ask themselves,
join the AMA and /or a club ???? why ?? I don't need either one.........

Just about everyone I know that flies only electric is not an AMA member
or belongs to a club. Consider this ........that might be part of the reason
they went electric in the first place. As they see it ......thats an advantage.


Regards
Roby
Old 01-26-2005, 08:06 AM
  #37  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: Roby

I've read some of the threads but not all.
IMO I feel that there is very little the AMA can do to attract
the park flyer individual that isn't already a member

From what Ive seen , people will only do something if there is an
advantage to them to do so. Lets face it , no one will do something
if it will be , or turns out to be , a disadvantage. SO they ask themselves,
join the AMA and /or a club ???? why ?? I don't need either one.........

Just about everyone I know that flies only electric is not an AMA member
or belongs to a club. Consider this ........that might be part of the reason
they went electric in the first place. As they see it ......thats an advantage.


Regards
Roby
I have read many posts about people who don't want to join a club for one
reason or another. I have found this especially common among new electric
pilots because, for the most part, it is easier to go it alone with the
electrics than with the fuel planes and sailplanes. You need less space, you
need less equipment, the planes are typically small and quiet so you can go
off by yourself and fly and in many cases no one will bother you.

I started on an Aerobird, a low cost park flyer. I joined a club and it has been great!

Net net, it is the people as much as the planes that have made this a
wonderful experience for me. I have made many new friends, and perhaps an
enemy or two. Yes, the club has restricted me in a few areas but they have
expended my experience so much in others that, well, I am way ahead with the club.

There are safety reasons, insurance reasons, instruction reasons and all sorts
of other excellent reasons to join a club, but the main one is fun. The club
has made a very enjoyable experience more fun than I could ever have imagined.

I had a bad club experience. I tried another one. If you had a bad club expereience, try a different club!

If you are new to the hobby, I strongly suggest you seek out the clubs in your
area. If you would like to see if there are clubs in your area, visit this
link. Remember that the address shown for the club is usually NOT the flying
field, but a member's house. In the case of our club, they are probably 20
mile apart.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...5E31DE4FA6F552
For other countries, use this link:
http://www.fai.org/fai_members/addresses.asp

Stop in and chat with the members. There is probably a club in your area that
is made up of people who share your interests and who would richen your flying
experience.

Want to have more fun? Join a club!

Clear skies and safe flying!
Old 01-27-2005, 03:09 PM
  #38  
loser
Senior Member
My Feedback: (37)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dillsburg, PA
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

FREQUENCY CONTROL or lack there of..... This is off on a tangent but to me the most important issue related to this topic is the crashing of models due to radio intererence from someone flying a foamie in their backyard a half mile down the road from my club field. I am a long time gas/glow flyer and have taken the electric/foamie plunge also and enjoy them very much, BUT...it is starting to concern me a bit when I am flying one of my big gassers worth several thousand beans, that someone "just down the road" from my club field might decide to make one short flight in the backyard on the same frequency.....Ouch!!! I Know this has been talked about before in columns in MA but have any good ideas or plans been put into effect to try and minimize what I described above??? It seems to me this is a big safety concern.
Old 01-27-2005, 03:50 PM
  #39  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: loser

FREQUENCY CONTROL or lack there of..... This is off on a tangent but to me the most important issue related to this topic is the crashing of models due to radio intererence from someone flying a foamie in their backyard a half mile down the road from my club field. I am a long time gas/glow flyer and have taken the electric/foamie plunge also and enjoy them very much, BUT...it is starting to concern me a bit when I am flying one of my big gassers worth several thousand beans, that someone "just down the road" from my club field might decide to make one short flight in the backyard on the same frequency.....Ouch!!! I Know this has been talked about before in columns in MA but have any good ideas or plans been put into effect to try and minimize what I described above??? It seems to me this is a big safety concern.
Not my place to say, but I would suggest you open a new thread on this. It is way off the subject. We are talking about recruiting members and you are talking freq control/safety. Very valid topic, but not related to this thread.
Old 01-27-2005, 03:56 PM
  #40  
Crashem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Jewett, NY,
Posts: 2,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Not my place to say, but I would suggest you open a new thread on this. It is way off the subject. We are talking about recruiting members and you are talking freq control/safety. Very valid topic, but not related to this thread.
Off topic I think not

Actually it's the primary reason many want the "electric" crowd in the AMA fold[X(]
Old 01-27-2005, 04:49 PM
  #41  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: Crashem

Not my place to say, but I would suggest you open a new thread on this. It is way off the subject. We are talking about recruiting members and you are talking freq control/safety. Very valid topic, but not related to this thread.
Off topic I think not

Actually it's the primary reason many want the "electric" crowd in the AMA fold[X(]
It might be a reason, but it is not the topic of this thread. However I'm open to Discussion.

The subject of this thread is "What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?"

How does Loser's post suggest a method or an approach to recruit parkflyer pilots. I see none.

By the way, the problem Loser brings up has always existed.

Joe Glow tuning his plane in his yard with the antenna up also presents a radio hazard. He is probably on 72 mhz.

Joe Glow flying in a large parking lot of an office complex on a Sunday afternoon, which I have seen, also presents the same hazard. He is probably on 72 mhz.

Joe Glow flying his glow powered helo at the local school presents the same issue. He is probably on 72 mhz.

Sam Sailplane launching his Gentle Lady off a local soccer field presents the same issue. He is probably on 72 mhz

Sam Sailplane is slope soaring off the high dunes at a local beach. He is probably on 72 mhz.

Eddy Electric leaves the club field, puts away his glow planes, picks up his son and they take their 72 mhz radio equipment to fly the kids new GWS Tiger moth or Slow Stick at the local lot. They are on 72 mhz.

All are instances where we have pilots, all of whom might already be AMA members, flying off the AMA field. All are most likely on 72 mhz which present a hazard to 72 mhz radios on AMA fields.

Pat Parkflyer bops down to the local hobby shop. He has never heard of the AMA, club fields, frequency contol and the like. He plunks down his $150 and walks out with an Aerobird, a Slo-V, a F27 Stryker, or one of 20 RTF electric parkflyers being sold by the thousands. This was me 2 years ago! He heads to the park and up she goes. He is on 27 mhz and his frequency control risk is to the guy running the boat in the pond near by and the car in the driveway across the street. The AMA fields are safe!!! Loser can fly his 1/4 scale biplane on 72 mhz in complete safety from Pat Parkflyer. No channel conflict at all!

All these situations are real, and have gone on for years. You read posts all the time about the guy who has been flying for 20 years. He started on a Gentle Lady sailplane that the used to fly in this open field, when he was a kid. Or the .40 trainer that they flew over the corn fields. Only the electric part is fairly new.

Now we look at the electric parkflyer crowd. A very high percentage of the parkflyers sold in hobby stores are RTF planes on 27 MHZ which present no challenge to the 72 mhz radios on the club fields. Oh sure, there are lots of GWS planes sold, but they are sold to people with 72 mhz radios. The vast majority of those folks are flying on club fields.

I have no hard statistics, but I have asked at the local hobby stores. The number of 27 mhz electric airplanes being sold swamps the number of 72 mhz electrics being sold by the hobby stores. Perhaps 10-1. If I am right, that means that the vast majority of 72mhz based parkflyers are probably being flown by people who already have 72 mhz radios and are likely being flown by AMA club members.

Now we can debate my assumptions and we can debate the frequency control topic, a very very important topic, but unless you are going to suggest that only people with AMA licenses can buy RC equipment of any kind on any frequency, it has little to do with recruiting new parkflyer members, the vast majority of which are probably on 27 mhz.

That is my point. It may be true and it may be important, but it is not relevent to the topic.

Now, what can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?
Old 01-27-2005, 05:30 PM
  #42  
abel_pranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St Augustine, FL,
Posts: 2,644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: aeajr

<snip>
Now we look at the electric parkflyer crowd. A very high percentage of the parkflyers sold in hobby stores are RTF planes on 27 MHZ which present no challenge to the 72 mhz radios on the club fields. Oh sure, there are lots of GWS planes sold, but they are sold to people with 72 mhz radios. The vast majority of those folks are flying on club fields.

I have no hard statistics, but I have asked at the local hobby stores. The number of 27 mhz electric airplanes being sold swamps the number of 72 mhz electrics being sold by the hobby stores. Perhaps 10-1. If I am right, that means that the vast majority of 72mhz based parkflyers are probably being flown by people who already have 72 mhz radios and are likely being flown by AMA club members.
Okay, let's stipulate that most parkfliers are RTF and fly on 27 MHz, and the vast majority of those on 72 Mhz sre flying on club fields. Do really think that leaves an insignificant number flying on 72 Mhz and not flying at club fields?

Now we can debate my assumptions and we can debate the frequency control topic, a very very important topic, but unless you are going to suggest that only people with AMA licenses can buy RC equipment of any kind on any frequency, it has little to do with recruiting new parkflyer members, the vast majority of which are probably on 27 mhz.

That is my point. It may be true and it may be important, but it is not relevent to the topic..
And your point is well taken, but Crashem and Loser have relevant points too. For many AMA members, the only interest in parkfliers is protecting themselves from them, e.g., the frequency control thing. AMA has a 'partnering with parkfliers' item in the PDF docs section on their web page, and one of the topics therein is informing parkfliers about the potential of interfering with club fliers. Others are of the "if you're gonna play you gotta pay' mindset, IOW parkfliers should pay AMA for the privilege of flying just as they have had to. You don't have to agree with the motive, and from whence you come I expect you don't, but it's not all that easy to separate the objective of recruiting parkfliers to AMA from the various motives for doing so. For that reason, I think it is relevant, and you can't realistically ignore it.
Now, what can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?
Not much, apparently.

Abel
Old 01-27-2005, 05:49 PM
  #43  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

Others are of the "if you're gonna play you gotta pay' mindset, IOW parkfliers should pay AMA for the privilege of flying just as they have had to.
Abel
[/quote]

Able,

I am sorry, but I am only in the hobby two years. You are saying that in the past people were forced to join the AMA in order to buy RC equipment and planes? I was not aware of that.

I thought people were only required to join the AMA if they wanted to be members of AMA chartered clubs, same as today.

When did this change?
Old 01-27-2005, 07:28 PM
  #44  
abel_pranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St Augustine, FL,
Posts: 2,644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: aeajr

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

Others are of the "if you're gonna play you gotta pay' mindset, IOW parkfliers should pay AMA for the privilege of flying just as they have had to.


Abel
Able,

I am sorry, but I am only in the hobby two years. You are saying that in the past people were forced to join the AMA in order to buy RC equipment and planes? I was not aware of that.

I thought people were only required to join the AMA if they wanted to be members of AMA chartered clubs, same as today.

When did this change?
[/quote]

aeajr-

No, I certainly did not say there is/was such a requirement, nor did I infer that I am in agreement with the posture. It is an attitude that prevails in the minds of some AMA members, and has been expressed often in this forum. Different words are used, same meaning - an alternate form is "if they can't afford $58, they can't afford the hobby." And it ain't in the past, either.
My point, as I was too inarticulate to express it clearly the first time, is that the the thread subject question is really getting the cart before the horse. Questions that need to be resolved first are (1) does the AMA (the consensus of the general membership, not just the management) want to attract the 3D/park flyer group? (2) What does AMA have to offer that the 3D/park flier that he needs/wants? Until those questions are answered, I don't see much point in pursuing the recruitment objective. That's what I intended when I said the objective cannot be separated from the motive(s). Was I more clear on that try?
FWIW, I don't pretend to have the answers to those questions. Moving ahead to the cart-before-horse question, I'm ambivalent, with one foot in the club scene and one enjoying the freedom of parkflyers. I'm not real keen on bringing the baggage of the former into the latter scenario. The parkflyers are growing like weeds and as such are doing a great deal to promote model aviation. Contemporaneously, AMA clubs are stagnant and shrinking. I think you may understand why I have some reservations about the issue........

Abel
Old 01-27-2005, 08:54 PM
  #45  
Jim Branaum
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

SNIP

Questions that need to be resolved first are (1) does the AMA (the consensus of the general membership, not just the management) want to attract the 3D/park flyer group? (2) What does AMA have to offer that the 3D/park flier that he needs/wants? Until those questions are answered, I don't see much point in pursuing the recruitment objective. That's what I intended when I said the objective cannot be separated from the motive(s). Was I more clear on that try?
FWIW, I don't pretend to have the answers to those questions. Moving ahead to the cart-before-horse question, I'm ambivalent, with one foot in the club scene and one enjoying the freedom of parkflyers. I'm not real keen on bringing the baggage of the former into the latter scenario. The parkflyers are growing like weeds and as such are doing a great deal to promote model aviation. Contemporaneously, AMA clubs are stagnant and shrinking. I think you may understand why I have some reservations about the issue........

Abel
Abel,
As you know, that was a very good answer because it clarified some of the issues. I think that SOME of the PF group 'belongs' in the AMA because many of 'US' are like them. The reference there is that flying for many is a social event. That part of the PF group belongs with the AMA and the rest just don't. To my way of looking, continuing to provide false reasons (like what we offer them) for why that portion of the identified target group should belong to the AMA is more destructive than not because it paints 'US' with a very dark brush.

Note that when I mention 'belong to the AMA' that is club inclusive. With no club, I am not sure there is a 'sales tool' for AMA membership. If part of the wild bunch want to form some sort of club without the AMA, we cannot stop them. No, all we can do is hope they have enough innate intelligence to have some common sense safety rules. Both of us know that as soon as there is an organization that can be identified, almost all municipalities will look for some sort of insurance coverage or possibly even restrict the activities. If the wild bunch needs help, they can get it on their own or join the AMA and gain whatever we might be able to bring to bear in their behalf. I just hope they make the right move soon enough.
Old 01-27-2005, 09:31 PM
  #46  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

Moving ahead to the cart-before-horse question, I'm ambivalent, with one foot in the club scene and one enjoying the freedom of parkflyers. I'm not real keen on bringing the baggage of the former into the latter scenario. The parkflyers are growing like weeds and as such are doing a great deal to promote model aviation. Contemporaneously, AMA clubs are stagnant and shrinking. I think you may understand why I have some reservations about the issue........

Abel
Ok, now this I can relate to the topic. Let's talk about clubs.

There seems to be a general tone that if you are in a club you are some how tied up and put in a box. Why? Could it be that our clubs treat people that way? Let's change the clubs!

If clubs are stagnant, liven 'em up. Clubs are not boring, the members are boring. So get involved and liven things up. Organize a fun fly event. As the new guy you can bring new ideas to the club. Become active! Get involved. Show the glow guy how much fun electrics can be. Maybe you can learn something about glow. Sure some members are going to push back, but others will be glad for the fresh blood.

I belong to a club. I love it. Great guys, great field, lots to learn and lots to teach. It's wonderful.

Sure they have put some restrictions on me, but they opened up new avenues for me I didn't even know I was missing. Not every one there loves me, but that is true everywhere. But when I go to the field I see friends who are glad to see me. People who call and want to know when I am flying. I care about them and they care about me. Is not the AMA, its the people in the club!

I also fly outside of the club. That Sam Sailplane slope soaring at the beach .... that's me. I didn't have to reject the club or the AMA to do that. And being in a club didn't prevent me from doing it. Now I am showing it to other people.

I intend to take my discus launched glider to the soccer fields, parking lots, and on trips. I may be flying in hotel parking lots. Who knows?

Now, the AMA (remember this is about the AMA) provides a bunch of benefits, the main one is to help clubs organize and to be able to secure flying fields. Without the insurance that the AMA provides, many if not most clubs would not be able to have flying fields without having to spend a fortune to get private insurance.

AMA provides support for school programs, community awareness programs, outreach programs and these programs are funneled through the clubs.

I don't see club membership or AMA membership or electric parkflyer or glow or sailplanes or 27 MHz or 72 MHz and either/or decision. Why not embrace them all? I have 5 parkies, 3 slope gliders, 2 discus launched gliders, 6 thermal duration sailplanes and one scale sailplane. I want to add electric indoor too and electric 3D. Maybe some free flight rubber models later.

I have two 27 MHz planes and I fly them often at the club field. The rest are on 72 MHz. Would I buy another 27 MHz plane? Sure, if it was what I wanted. I like the Parkzone Slo-V and the F27 Stryker.

If you want to get the parkflyer pilots into the clubs, invite them in. Reach out to them. Make arrangements with the hobby shops to provide free lessons. Show them how to fix their planes. Don't tell them why their planes are junk and why they have to build kits if they want to fly. They have a new form of flying. Bring it into the club. We have lots of parkflyers in the club and lots of 27 MHz pilots. They are most of our new members.

As for AMA membership, if you want them to join, invite them into the clubs. That is how you do it. All other points of focus are a waste of time in my opinion. The clubs are the key source of new AMA members and they always will be.

Then you will have better frequency control, because you will teach them.

Then you will have safer flyers, because you will teach them.

Then you will have life long flyers and modelers because you will help them see the joy in it!

It is the club, not the AMA, that has something to offer the parkflyer pilot.
Old 01-27-2005, 10:00 PM
  #47  
abel_pranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St Augustine, FL,
Posts: 2,644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: aeajr

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

Moving ahead to the cart-before-horse question, I'm ambivalent, with one foot in the club scene and one enjoying the freedom of parkflyers. I'm not real keen on bringing the baggage of the former into the latter scenario. The parkflyers are growing like weeds and as such are doing a great deal to promote model aviation. Contemporaneously, AMA clubs are stagnant and shrinking. I think you may understand why I have some reservations about the issue........

Abel
Ok, now this I can relate to the topic. Let's talk about clubs.

There seems to be a general tone that if you are in a club you are some how tied up and put in a box. Why? Could it be that our clubs treat people that way? Let's change the clubs!

If clubs are stagnant, liven 'em up. Clubs are not boring, the members are boring. So get involved and liven things up. Organize a fun fly event. As the new guy you can bring new ideas to the club. Become active! Get involved. Show the glow guy how much fun electrics can be. Maybe you can learn something about glow. Sure some members are going to push back, but others will be glad for the fresh blood.

I belong to a club. I love it. Great guys, great field, lots to learn and lots to teach. It's wonderful.

Sure they have put some restrictions on me, but they opened up new avenues for me I didn't even know I was missing. Not every one there loves me, but that is true everywhere. But when I go to the field I see friends who are glad to see me. People who call and want to know when I am flying. I care about them and they care about me. Is not the AMA, its the people in the club!

I also fly outside of the club. That Sam Sailplane slope soaring at the beach .... that's me. I didn't have to reject the club or the AMA to do that. And being in a club didn't prevent me from doing it. Now I am showing it to other people.

I intend to take my discus launched glider to the soccer fields, parking lots, and on trips. I may be flying in hotel parking lots. Who knows?

Now, the AMA (remember this is about the AMA) provides a bunch of benefits, the main one is to help clubs organize and to be able to secure flying fields. Without the insurance that the AMA provides, many if not most clubs would not be able to have flying fields without having to spend a fortune to get private insurance.

AMA provides support for school programs, community awareness programs, outreach programs and these programs are funneled through the clubs.

I don't see club membership or AMA membership or electric parkflyer or glow or sailplanes or 27 MHz or 72 MHz and either/or decision. Why not embrace them all? I have 5 parkies, 3 slope gliders, 2 discus launched gliders, 6 thermal duration sailplanes and one scale sailplane. I want to add electric indoor too and electric 3D. Maybe some free flight rubber models later.

I have two 27 MHz planes and I fly them often at the club field. The rest are on 72 MHz. Would I buy another 27 MHz plane? Sure, if it was what I wanted. I like the Parkzone Slo-V and the F27 Stryker.

If you want to get the parkflyer pilots into the clubs, invite them in. Reach out to them. Make arrangements with the hobby shops to provide free lessons. Show them how to fix their planes. Don't tell them why their planes are junk and why they have to build kits if they want to fly. They have a new form of flying. Bring it into the club. We have lots of parkflyers in the club and lots of 27 MHz pilots. They are most of our new members.

As for AMA membership, if you want them to join, invite them into the clubs. That is how you do it. All other points of focus are a waste of time in my opinion. The clubs are the key source of new AMA members and they always will be.

Then you will have better frequency control, because you will teach them.

Then you will have safer flyers, because you will teach them.

Then you will have life long flyers and modelers because you will help them see the joy in it!

It is the club, not the AMA, that has something to offer the parkflyer pilot.
aeajr -

I have no quarrel with anything you said. If it works for you in the club(s) you belong to, thats great.[8D]

Abel
Old 01-27-2005, 10:21 PM
  #48  
onrecess
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

And there lies the problem. Parkflyers (and "off-field" guys) are going to fire up their 72 radio in some hotel parking lot, soccer field or whatever, and accidentally be just out of line of site of a flying field and cause a thousand dollar airplane to crash- or a hundred dollar airplane to lose control and cripple or kill or crash into a freeway and cause a disaster.
When this happens, and it will as more and more PFs are sold with "real" radios, the govt is going to have to regulate the frequencies. When the PF crowd, without AMA lobbyists, can only have interference clogged frequencies or two 27 channels, they will be the first to cry about the freedom they lost through carelessness, ignorance, and not wanting to be inconvenienced by flying at a controlled field. The govt allows radio frequency use, and regulates it to those who prove they will not abuse it. I fly off-field. Near my house where I KNOW where the nearest controlled field is. How are you going to know at a hotel or soccer field on a trip???
The interest in the PF crowd is all about protecting our hobby from thoughtless abuse.
Old 01-27-2005, 10:21 PM
  #49  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Abel, Crashem, and everyone else,

If you ever make it up to NY, I invite you to contact me. Come on down to the field. Let's fly and laugh and have a great day. I will introduce you to wild guys, fun guys, dull guys and guys who practically invented model airplanes.

It was 12 degrees today and there is too feet of snow on the ground. Perfect for parkflyers .. maybe an aerobird with skis!

One of my favorite club members is in his 70's. When I first joined, he rode me to build a kit, it had to be a sailplane (sailplane club that also admits parkflyers) and ..... I show up with an Aerobird. That was March 2003.

Four months ago I took him slope soaring. ( yes, I eventually embraced gliders. I love 'em!) He had never been slope soaring! I got to introduce this guy, who has prizes and awards all over his house, who has written dozens of articles and built hundreds of planes.... I introduced him to slope soaring.

And, he asked me how much the Aerobird was. He had been trying to get his grandson interested in modeling. He thought maybe his grandson might like the Aerobird.

The other day he sent me a note asking me what plane he should get for his first slope plane. I have never been so flattered in my life.

Sometimes you have to break through the old ways over time. Don't fight 'em, show them some respect while you show them that your new form of flying is OK too.

Unfortunately not everyone is as strong willed as I am and many will wither under the pressure to conform. But each of us can be an agent of change in the clubs. We can open up their thinking so they embrace the new guys and make 'em feel welcome. That's why I go to the hobby stores and leave my name and e-mail and tell 'em to send us their new parkflyer pilots.

We'll teach 'em. And they will join and grow with us as we will grow with them.
Old 01-27-2005, 10:38 PM
  #50  
aeajr
My Feedback: (2)
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: onrecess

And there lies the problem. Parkflyers (and "off-field" guys) are going to fire up their 72 radio in some hotel parking lot, soccer field or whatever, and accidentally be just out of line of site of a flying field and cause a thousand dollar airplane to crash- or a hundred dollar airplane to lose control and cripple or kill or crash into a freeway and cause a disaster.
When this happens, and it will as more and more PFs are sold with "real" radios, the govt is going to have to regulate the frequencies. When the PF crowd, without AMA lobbyists, can only have interference clogged frequencies or two 27 channels, they will be the first to cry about the freedom they lost through carelessness, ignorance, and not wanting to be inconvenienced by flying at a controlled field. The govt allows radio frequency use, and regulates it to those who prove they will not abuse it. I fly off-field. Near my house where I KNOW where the nearest controlled field is. How are you going to know at a hotel or soccer field on a trip???
The interest in the PF crowd is all about protecting our hobby from thoughtless abuse.
You got me on that one. You are right! I should have mentioned that I check where local flying fields are to make sure I am at least 2 miles away. Bad form on my part. But your point is well taken. Here is where I check.

AMA clubs
http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubmai...5E31DE4FA6F552

If you read Model Avaition, the AMA magazine, they published one of my letters where I suggest that radios be made with two levels of power so that people off the field could turn down the power to reduce the chance of interference. Let's face it, we don't need 7,000 feet of range to fly a model that is less than 1000 feet away from us.

Off field flying is a problem and how to manage it is a problem too.

Fortunately the typical RTF parkflyer 27 mhz radio has a range of 2500 feet or less. And most of the 72 mhz AM sets that come in the RTFs have a range that is 3000 feet or less, about 1/2 to 1/4 the range of the typical 72 mhz FM set.

Even some of the low end 72 mhz FM sets have half the power of your club radio. That at least helps reduce the overlap. I doubt it was done by design, but more based on price.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.