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What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

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What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Old 01-28-2005, 12:01 AM
  #51  
abel_pranger
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: onrecess

And there lies the problem. Parkflyers (and "off-field" guys) are going to fire up their 72 radio in some hotel parking lot, soccer field or whatever, and accidentally be just out of line of site of a flying field and cause a thousand dollar airplane to crash- or a hundred dollar airplane to lose control and cripple or kill or crash into a freeway and cause a disaster.
When this happens, and it will as more and more PFs are sold with "real" radios, the govt is going to have to regulate the frequencies. When the PF crowd, without AMA lobbyists, can only have interference clogged frequencies or two 27 channels, they will be the first to cry about the freedom they lost through carelessness, ignorance, and not wanting to be inconvenienced by flying at a controlled field. The govt allows radio frequency use, and regulates it to those who prove they will not abuse it. I fly off-field. Near my house where I KNOW where the nearest controlled field is. How are you going to know at a hotel or soccer field on a trip???
The interest in the PF crowd is all about protecting our hobby from thoughtless abuse.
onrecess-

Well it's clear that you exemplify a subgroup within AMA I was talking about. You want the parkflyers to join AMA to satisfy your interests (freedom from RF interference), with an argument that it is ultimately (and it seems secondarily) in their interest as well. You may be right, but I have doubts that your reasons will sell AMA to parkflyers. The 72 Mhz band allocated to model flying is not allocated exclusively to AMA clubs. You suggest that FCC may change that as a result of AMA lobbying. I will be very surprised to see that happen. PFs don't have the organization or lobbyists, but they do have the numbers to be a force in the marketplace, and because of that I expect they would also have some backing of the industry that does have the organization and the $$$ for lobbyists. I don't wish to see that fight happen, as it will be ugly and there will be no winners.

Abel
Old 01-28-2005, 08:48 AM
  #52  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

SORRY....Did not intend to "stir things up a bit". I should have put into my original post more details relevant to the point I was trying to make. Many of them have been mentioned in subsequent posts. What I should have included was the very fast rate of growth in the small electric arena greatly increasing the potential for someone "just over the hill" from an AMA sanctioned field turning on a 72 Mhz Tx and causing "problems. By having new flyers (electric/park) aware of the AMA and knowing the location of sanctioned fields and the potential problems, we may be able to save a few planes, gain a few members and most importantly avoid physical harm. I fly small electrics in areas close to my home but know their are no AMA fields close enough to cause problems. I know this does not totally eliminate potential problems but hopefully greatly reduces them.
Old 01-28-2005, 09:05 AM
  #53  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Interesting reading, many opinions, but not many positive replies
to the original question.

I guess that sort of indicates that there is very little that can be done
to attract the individuals in question.

Maybe it all comes back to the "advantage thing" I mentioned in post # 36.

To tell you the truth, I'm more concerned about someone showing up at the
field with a transmitter already turned on than I am with the PF.

As long as it's legal to operate a PF in a back yard or in the local park, etc.
There is nothing anyone can do. And that is the advantage of the PF.

Just a thought
Regards
Roby
Old 01-28-2005, 09:10 AM
  #54  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Part of it is the manufacture's are promoting backyard flying.

While browsing thru the new ama book (feb) you'll see a ad for the new super decathalon sponsored by ama as it's in the ama book right? Looking at the description it specifically says ".... in as little as 40 minutes, you're flying..." Then "no building, no hassles, nothing else to buy, just fly" The picture looks like he's just flying in a field...

on page 46, the ad says "Small enough to fly almost anywhere"

page 103, "looking for a fun to fly, durable and quiet plane you can fly just about anywhere"

etc etc

The manufacturers are marketing all of these planes to be able to fly anywhere and it appears that the ama is fine with that so.....
Old 01-28-2005, 11:43 AM
  #55  
Jim Branaum
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: jonkoppisch

Part of it is the manufacture's are promoting backyard flying.

While browsing thru the new ama book (feb) you'll see a ad for the new super decathalon sponsored by ama as it's in the ama book right? Looking at the description it specifically says ".... in as little as 40 minutes, you're flying..." Then "no building, no hassles, nothing else to buy, just fly" The picture looks like he's just flying in a field...

on page 46, the ad says "Small enough to fly almost anywhere"

page 103, "looking for a fun to fly, durable and quiet plane you can fly just about anywhere"

etc etc

The manufacturers are marketing all of these planes to be able to fly anywhere and it appears that the ama is fine with that so.....
The only effective solution the the frequency issue is spread spectrum. That won't happen as long as they can make lots of money on high dollar computer radios that are on the current RF plan. So looking at PF's joining the AMA to 'fix' interference problems is almost as futile as looking to the AMA to not make money advertising its own rope, er PF's that will never join. The only thing about that advertising is that it is generally to the choir, not the general public.

Think about flying being a community thing. It takes a community to provide and maintain a field. That community can be the one your tax dollars feed, until someone makes them mad, or your club flying field. There appears to be nothing the AMA offers the PF guy, but clubs do. The next question is how can MY club offer the PF guy a good enough reason to spend over twice what his aircraft cost just to join the club and AMA. THAT is the real question we should be addressing.

I will try to remember to ask my club president what MY 150+ member club offered him but I think I already know. I do know that he does not own any wet birds, taught himself how to fly even when offered help, participates in all our activities, and finally graduated to larger aircraft, still electric. His son has been getting instruction.
Old 01-28-2005, 11:53 AM
  #56  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Spread spectrum or the simplist way and quickest is to simply do like the polks radio. The radio scans for use on the frequency before it transmits. Simple and evidently affordable as they were able to do it and they're not a big time manufacturer. This could almost do away with frequency pins in itself!!!

Think about it. You turn on your radio, you can't shoot anyone down, if someone is already broadcasting on that frequency the radio wont transmit. If I remember right there's an led to let you know when your radio is transmitting. If the led comes on, go fly, if not then wait for the other fliers to land.

If you're flying, someone else turns on. No big deal as their radio doesn't transmit until the frequency is clear!!!!!

Of course this would only work if this became manditory like the 91 cert on the radios!!!
Old 01-28-2005, 11:57 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Adding:

Almost the only reason to know what frequency everyone is on now is so that you can ask how long they'll have it before you can fly... it's not a matter of safety or loss now!!!
Old 01-28-2005, 12:45 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: loser

SORRY....Did not intend to "stir things up a bit". I should have put into my original post more details relevant to the point I was trying to make. Many of them have been mentioned in subsequent posts. What I should have included was the very fast rate of growth in the small electric arena greatly increasing the potential for someone "just over the hill" from an AMA sanctioned field turning on a 72 Mhz Tx and causing "problems. By having new flyers (electric/park) aware of the AMA and knowing the location of sanctioned fields and the potential problems, we may be able to save a few planes, gain a few members and most importantly avoid physical harm. I fly small electrics in areas close to my home but know their are no AMA fields close enough to cause problems. I know this does not totally eliminate potential problems but hopefully greatly reduces them.

It seems you and I are completely on Sync. Thanks for adding this. Now it all becomes clear to me.
Old 01-28-2005, 12:59 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Bottom line.. If the AMA had something to offer the Park flyers we'd see our ranks swelling rather then shrinking
How ever I've heard mindyou that many local governments are passing laws that prohibit R/C in/at public parks.
JR mentioned one area in CA for example a while back. Maybe if flying sites become limited the Park flyers will have no choice but to join if only to use the AMA clubs field
Old 01-28-2005, 01:36 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

I hope this hasen't been suggested before on this thread and I missed it, but my theory for how to attract park flyers to AMA is some sort of cheap AMA Junior membership.

If all I flew was little gws foamy sized things, I'd be a bit put off paying the same Insurance premium as guys flying multi engine third scale gassers. Maybe a limited membership for planes smaller than some given weight, say 800g? Planes small enough to not kill you if flown full speed into the average adults head (I think my head could take an impact from a .40 sized glow plane, but most couldnt).

All this would still mean to fly on a proper AMA field, one would still need a full membership, as a slow stick flyer can still turn his dream starter on in the parking lot and shoot down a 25 pound plane, thus needing the full insurance. But for parks, where other Jr AMA members with teeny foamies and 3d profiles, the lessor risk could carry a cheaper premium.

Maybe a more park-flyer newsletter for Jr members, with places to fly (and warnings about where not to!) and other info of interest to Jr ama guys. Such an abridged membership thing maybe nice for CL too- since they are on wires and less prone to control loss- well at least the kind of full loss and fly-away an RC plane is subject to. I'd love a list of parking lots that are good to fly CL without angering anyone..
Old 01-28-2005, 02:04 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Clint,

On the surface your suggestion seems reasonable. However it could become an administrative nightmare. For example

Mr parkflyer shows up with his JR AMA membership and his brand new .60 sized glow powered P-51D and promptly plants it in the roof of the nearest house.

Question : Who is responsible for determining if Mr parkflyers AMA membership covers him to fly that plane. Also who enforces this rule? I could go on but I think you see where this leads..
Old 01-28-2005, 02:06 PM
  #62  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

There are most likely many good reasons park flyers are prevalant.

1. Park flyers are cheaper

2. Park flyers are much easier to market than fuel or gas powered planes.

3. Clubs may be hard to find or even for the most part, nonexistant.

4. Some people simply don't want anything to do with clubs of any kind.

5. The industry got tired of having to depend on non profit oriented clubs for the promotion of RC aircraft.

6. http://www.rc-float-flying.rchomepag...instructor.htm

7. Flight instructors are advertised as not required to learn to fly park flyers.

8. Profits for the sale of park flyers for the industry, including AMA is all but guaranteed. As they say, money talks and bullsh... walks.

CCR
Old 01-28-2005, 02:16 PM
  #63  
Jim Branaum
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Jon,
Getting all the NEW computer radios out of use to bring in new stuff like that radio will take 15 years. Five to get the industry on board because most shoot downs simply result in more sales, and 10 to let the grandfathered equipment work its way out of the system.

If we are going to invest that kind of time and effort, I would prefer SS. But I always liked the good stuff.

Clint,
In the 80's AMA paid for some research that proved there is enough blunt trauma force in a 6 pound object going 60 miles an hour to be lethal. A guy in Arizona accidentally killed himself with a .40 sized trainer a year or two ago. I doubt your head would take a .40.

I dread the idea of enforcing a tiered membership that you just suggested. I see that as a sure way to destroy clubs.

Clarance,
I agree with your #8. I am afraid that says it all.
Old 01-28-2005, 03:01 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

I agree Jim. It just seems like a simple non complicated, reasonably priced solution. I love the idea of spread spectrum but from what I've heard there are many, many hurdles and who knows what the price will be.... The simpler and more affordable the better!!!!!
Old 01-28-2005, 06:39 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: aeajr


If you read Model Avaition, the AMA magazine, they published one of my letters where I suggest that radios be made with two levels of power so that people off the field could turn down the power to reduce the chance of interference. Let's face it, we don't need 7,000 feet of range to fly a model that is less than 1000 feet away from us.

Off field flying is a problem and how to manage it is a problem too.

Fortunately the typical RTF parkflyer 27 mhz radio has a range of 2500 feet or less. And most of the 72 mhz AM sets that come in the RTFs have a range that is 3000 feet or less, about 1/2 to 1/4 the range of the typical 72 mhz FM set.

Even some of the low end 72 mhz FM sets have half the power of your club radio. That at least helps reduce the overlap. I doubt it was done by design, but more based on price.

aeajr: Wow! That is good information. The idea of two power levels is great, but (knowing how guys are) I think most guys would always flip to high power "just to be safe". I do believe something will have to change or the hobby is going to get a black eye it may not recover from.

other: Accusing me of being motivated by "self-interest" is fun, but perhaps you should read my posts. I believe AMA and club membership will help everyone involved. Read what I said about learning. Helping people learn to fly doesn't just protect others from the new flyer's ignorance, it helps him reach his goal of learning to fly a decent plane as well. Then again, I like RC planes, and protecting the hobby isn't such a terrible thing. My local club taught me to fly, and may well have saved me from serious finger injuries and smashed airplanes suffered by others who used a "nice helpful fella" who helped them learn a painful and expensive lesson, if not how to fly. Many PFs are going to want to fly a glow model and props (heck, even on powerful electrics) bite, airplanes can injure or kill, property can be damaged, etc... I still think learning is cheaper the AMA/club route if you are advancing to glow or fast planes.
Old 01-31-2005, 07:59 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Bottom line.. If the AMA had something to offer the Park flyers we'd see our ranks swelling rather then shrinking
How ever I've heard mindyou that many local governments are passing laws that prohibit R/C in/at public parks.
JR mentioned one area in CA for example a while back. Maybe if flying sites become limited the Park flyers will have no choice but to join if only to use the AMA clubs field
How true! Unfortunately the AMA has tried to be the "all in all" to everyone and it's not working. Insurnace covers everything under the sun at fields now, and we are seeing claims for kids falling onto concrete in a posted "keep off" area. Also, look how much of AMA is not even R/C. Those guys join AMA and they don't even do the "radio" thing.

More education isn't the solution either. I've seen the education committee at work.. their idea of education is with the AMA Cub and more recently the Sky Streak. But, their efforts are weak and their impact is even less. It's all lost in Academia and never translates to anyone. Making free flight planes up for anyone who "happens" to walk by the booth is not a very effective use of talent. Neither is their attendance at trade shows... they are preaching to the choir! Talk about out of touch. I like what a prior posted said.. 'We've lost the Gee Wizz" of some aspects of our hobby.

Getting the $50 RTF PF in the AMA... never happen... too much has gone on and it's WAY too late.

Getting the $50 Foamy flyer with an outrunner brushless motor and a 7 channel radio... That should have been done already. I don't see why the stores are running this hobby. If you buy a 52mhz radio... show your AMA card. Try getting your scuba tanks filled without the right paperwork/ certificate. It's usually the non-insured guy that bought the radio, tried aircraft and switched everyting over to a car (true story) that shoots down the insured AMA member. I for one, would rather have stronger airplane coverage from AMA then some of the things they are interested in (like a national flying field that is under water or snow for large periods of time).

I am from CA and every school and park I've visited has a posted "No remote control flying" sign posted. The local governments are doing the "CYA" thing unless it's a designated R/C park... and there aren't too many of those left.

My $0.02
Old 02-04-2005, 08:15 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Attracting younger flyers has been an issue for decades. Some of the ideas like newsletter only memberships have been tried. Total flop.
Our club puts on an annual show that often includes not only almost all types of R/C, but even C/L, FF, and model rockets. We advertise in most of the hobby shops in a 30 mile radius. We get maybe 10 to 15 new members a year from this and other shows at organization picnics, shows for boy scouts, things like that. Our turnover of a lot of these new members can be pretty high. We used to do well on recruitment from mall shows, when malls made the floor space available. That is, untill bean counting MBAs started showing charts about how much each square inch of floor space could potentialy make. When my wife worked at a mall, the manager of her store and managers of other store in the mall got upset when the mall management stopped letting groups like us put on shows. In this mall, there were two shows a year that attracted big crowds that spent money at the stores. Our annual mall show that included a number of other local clubs, and the one a local association of model railroad clubs that set up a modular layout each brought in more dollar business for the stores than even the local auto dealers car show. Counts showed that the car show brought in more people, but the stores' registers showed the model shows brought in more money. The MBAs couldn't understand it. And what they don't understand, they reject.
I see a lot posted about the park fliers, but most of the ones I work with have given it up after a couple years. Too boring. They go back to golf, fishing, motorcycle riding, and watching TV or playing computer games.
I've run into some of the drop-outs. I even work with a couple. A couple have complained about how we have too many rules. The great majority say they just got bored. Too much work to build any good performing models that don't look like everybody elses', and the ARFs are just to identical and too limited. Also too much work to improve flying skills or learn to build. A couple of the old timers do make some money building kits for some of the people who don't want to do their own work, but this also limits their time for their own building and flying.
How do we attract the younger bunch into our little sport/hobby? That question's been asked ever since I got involved in model airplains about 56 years ago, and nobody has found a workable answer yet.
As far as the military connections, for years the NATs was sponsored by the Navy as a recruitment effort. It was a victim of budget cutting. Bean Counters again.
Old 02-04-2005, 11:58 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Very enjoyable reading there, 50+. You really hit some targets with that bomb load!

The MBAs couldn't understand it. And what they don't understand, they reject.
That applies to this entire nation in almost everything. MBAs having no real world understanding along with CPAs trying to make 2+2 equal anything except 4, and CEOs stealing every cent they can locate, have ruined a lot of economic infrastructure. The national airline business is the top of my mind along with the manufacturing industry.
Yes our RC world is also part of that business.

Also too much work to improve flying skills or learn to build. A couple of the old timers do make some money building kits for some of the people who don't want to do their own work, but this also limits their time for their own building and flying.
How do we attract the younger bunch into our little sport/hobby? That question's been asked ever since I got involved in model airplains about 56 years ago, and nobody has found a workable answer yet.
Yes it has and will forever be. I, too have been there for nearly 60 years, the big difference being that for some 25 years of that time I never worried about the youth as I was one and was too busy with life and models to see the problem.

As far as the military connections, for years the NATs was sponsored by the Navy as a recruitment effort. It was a victim of budget cutting. Bean Counters again.
Actually this is true however I can shed a bit of light on the spark that ignited the flame.
In 1971 the Navy Nats at Glenview was well attended, however a war was going on. All the personnel that the Navy provided were Naval Reservists on their 2 week summer encampments, and these people could be better used in the supply services at Glenview.
There were some YOUNG reservists there. (Reserves and Nat. Guard were a couple cozy places to get into during those DRAFT days.) There were letters sent to a couple congressmen by moms complaining that their young sons were being taken from their homes during their summer vacations just to watch over people playing with toy airplanes.
In the long run, Glenview got a new Commander in the winter of '72 and he advised AMA that the Navy could no longer support the NATs. AMA ED J. Worth canceled the NATs. Since the concern was manpower, I called Jerry Nelson, then in Chicago, and he jumped on with a number of other leaders, a plan to furnish manpower was quickly arranged, back to Worth, and to AMA Pres J. Clemens and the NATs was back on for the one week that had been previously promised, although any future beyond '72 would no longer exist.
1972 was the Last Navy HOSTED NATs and the First ,in many years, AMA STAFFED NATs.

There just might have been more had not those several moms not minded their sons enjoying a very SAFE military activity in those years. OTOH the stage was set for AMA to GROW and do it on their own. That first AMA staffed NATs went exceptionally well. The '73 Oshkosh NATs was a whole 'nother story!!![X(] But lessons learned and lookwhere it is today. Change and evolution are mandatory, yet the same ol' question lingers on. [:-]
Old 02-05-2005, 10:45 AM
  #69  
Jim Thomerson
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

As said above, the AMA needs to find out what the parkfliers want/need and then decide whether the AMA can help them. To have a heretical thought, maybe what the AMA could do is provide competition for park fliers. Competition gives one goals and focus, association with like minded folks, development of skills, etc. etc. Mentioned above in a couple of posts is the idea that parkfliers often get bored and go do something else after a while. Maybe if there were competition events for them, they would not get bored.

Jim
Old 02-05-2005, 12:00 PM
  #70  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Looks like clubs and members have a lot to do with AMA growth. What people see going on in clubs and the impression they make reflects back at all involved and a lot of people just don't think they want anything to do with it. Just like 50+ stated we have tried every thing for the past many years and it never changes. All people want to do any more is fly and not have to build or get involved.

[8D]
Old 02-05-2005, 12:45 PM
  #71  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

I keep hearing this over and over. "The AMA should . . . . . ". Gentlemen and Ladies - WE ARE THE AMA. The AMA didn't organize giant scale (IMAA), they didn't start Scale Aerobatics (IMAC), they didn't start the Society of Antique Modelers (SAM), they didn't set up the Vintage R/C Society (VRCS) . . . on and on for every SIG. These were set up by modelers and promoted. In the future look to Indoor Aerobatics, Foamy Racing, Park Flyer Fun Fly Competition - these too will be organized and promoted by modelers. Have you tried Lite Stick night racing in that deserted back parking lot of your local mall? If people expect to be served their fun on a plate they aren't going to have much. And if you wait for the preverbial "AMA" to do it it isn't going to happen. The AMA is what WE make it. no more, no less.
Old 02-05-2005, 05:06 PM
  #72  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

Hi Red

Perhaps it is time to look at the other side of the coin. Is there anything the AMA can UNDO that it HAS DONE to discourage park flyers or younger folks.

I have not heard a thing about Sandy Frank's effort to find indoor sites for park flyers. You would think this would be an effort wildly and widely supported in the areas of the country that are somewhat less weather friendly than ours.
Old 02-05-2005, 05:58 PM
  #73  
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: J_R

Hi Red

Perhaps it is time to look at the other side of the coin. Is there anything the AMA can UNDO that it HAS DONE to discourage park flyers or younger folks.

I have not heard a thing about Sandy Frank's effort to find indoor sites for park flyers. You would think this would be an effort wildly and widely supported in the areas of the country that are somewhat less weather friendly than ours.
It bears repeating, "If people expect to be served their fun on a plate they aren't going to have much. " It is equally applicable to all ages.
Old 02-05-2005, 09:47 PM
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aeajr
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield

I keep hearing this over and over. "The AMA should . . . . . ". Gentlemen and Ladies - WE ARE THE AMA.

If people expect to be served their fun on a plate they aren't going to have much. And if you wait for the preverbial "AMA" to do it it isn't going to happen. The AMA is what WE make it. no more, no less.
Red, you have hit the essential truth. It is not "them vs us" but us vs us. I people want change, jump in and make it happen.
Old 02-05-2005, 09:57 PM
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Default RE: What can the AMA do to recruit the under 30/park flyer group?

JR:
I have not heard a thing about Sandy Frank's effort to find indoor sites for park flyers. You would think this would be an effort wildly and widely supported in the areas of the country that are somewhat less weather friendly than ours.
I'm sure the effort is there. I hear of a great big indoor golf place up near Wheeling/Buffalo Grove, IL where Indoor RC is big at night. The local H/S owner had a big hand in obtaining that place. I don't think he would need SF to do it for him. Locals can do a lot for themselves WHEN they try.

Jim T:
To have a heretical thought, maybe what the AMA could do is provide competition for park fliers. Competition gives one goals and focus, association with like minded folks, development of skills, etc. etc. Mentioned above in a couple of posts is the idea that parkfliers often get bored and go do something else after a while. Maybe if there were competition events for them, they would not get bored.
Jim, IIRC, you are a CL flier from some time back. You are by nature a competitor. Unfortunately the vast majority of RC fliers are just 'passing through' here today, gone tomorrow. For these people, electrics for the most part are just another toy and will soon be put aside for the next fad.
To you and I competition prevents boredom. To me any kind of model airplane is a whole 'nother world to explore. I love competition yet I cannot restrict myself to just 1 or 2 areas to remain in. While I cannot ever be bored, yet I see the passer-throughs come and go on a regular schedule.
In 2004 my club attained 136 members by end of year. After Jan. 31,'05, we were down to 112. Actually that is great as we are 11 above the same time in Jan. 2004. Same old story, 2 steps back but 3 steps forward. I'm sure we will hit 150 members by next Dec 31, yet back to 120 by 01/31/06 then forward again. Considering we are the "High-Rent District" in an area of many clubs, I have no problem with our growth.
I doubt very seriously that there will be any "Park Fliers" in that count. Oh yes, we have some good electric fliers, and there will be others, but "Park" fliers they ain't. The serious sportsmen hang in there, the passer-throughs do just that.
Now Jim, you well know that competition stems from grass-roots individuals/groups/organizations that come up with an interesting activity and submit rule proposals to AMA. It is -- as otherwise expressed herein -- not AMA's function to *Provide for*. It is the member's function to discover and then promote a need, and to use AMA for support to enhance that need.

For me personally, the park-fliers provide a cash-cow for the industry and local H/Ss, therefore the industry can give better service, etc. for the more advanced RC participants. Yet, I don't feel any obligation to bend-over for them. I don't expect AMA to do more than make its presence known and the opportunities available for the PFs to become a part of.

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