AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

How far will a Club go to kick you out?

Reply

Old 02-27-2005, 11:23 PM
  #1  
Krumrei22
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Grand Rapids, MN
Posts: 4
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default How far will a Club go to kick you out?

Hello All,

I am new to this forum but NOT new to flying. I have been flying R/C planes since about 1990, starting in Omaha Nebraska, actually Buds Field in Council Bluffs, Iowa ( Across the river in Omaha.)

Anyways, I recently moved back home to Minnesota last year and joined the Itasca R/C Club, http://www.itascarc.com and found that these folks are not only the most rude group of individuals, they feel that they own the field themselves.

My father, started flying 4 years ago at the Itasca R/C Club, starting with a .60 Trainer, then moved up the next year to a G-62, 25 pound Stinger. He moved up in the ranks quickly, learning how to fly better each time he flew at the field. He wanted something bigger and better after learning more and more about the sport. He graduated to a Carden Aircraft 35% Extra 330. Flying 3D was hi nitch in a heartbeat!

I never seen anyone build and fly these planes with more ease than my dad. He builds great looking planes and has volunteered many times to make the club better, by mowing the field, moving the bathroom house, and other things here and there.

My dad was always the first to help a newby a the sport. He encourged others who have never flown before, to fly and join the club and even offered to teach new flyers and gave out his phone number almost everytime at the field to anyone who needed help with building or flying, or if you just wanted to bull**** about flying. My dad was always a giving person with this sport.

Then, the board members of the Club, who are still flying trainers, and smaller aircraft, saw my dads progression as a threat, and the even head of jelousy reared its ugly head.

Certain board members were trying to find any and every reason to not let my dad fly at the field, even though he had been flying with these guys for the past 3 years without any incidents ro dangerous flying at teh field. The group of individuals went even as far as contacting another filed in Bemidji Minnesota, where my dad attended fly-in's at, asking them to write a letter stating that my dad was unfit to fly, because of the size of his aircraft. The Bemidji club, denied this request and also stated to the Itasca RC club that is had no intentions to approve the barment of another member anywhere in the U.S.

My father was about to get banned and denied the right to fly at this field in the 2005 season and attended one of the month club meetings to discuss and deny any such claims that these few board members had in denying the right to join the club. The members of the club, thankfully voted on the motion to deny my dad and found that my dad had the right to be admitted to the 2005 season at the field.

My father has invested about $25,000 in equipment, trailers, and other tools to build these airplanes and has the right to fly them at the AMA field. He right was granted, however, this past week, the board members, even though defeated in getting rid of my dad, sent him a letter stating that they wanted to have a special meeting with him this next week concerning his payment he sent in for membership dues.

I am only assuming that these guys are trying to bushwack my dad again in trying to deny his right to be a member of the field.

My father has never caused any damage or anything else that would deem him unfit to be a member of this club.

How can these guys get away with pushing someone out of the club without due process? I feel that this is almost a case of discrimination on my dad because he flys bigger and better aircraft than those running the show in Itasca County Minnesota.

I need need, how can I stop these guys from being such hipocrits in trying to get rid of my dad?


Paul Krumrei
Grand Rapids, Minnesota




Krumrei22 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2005, 11:45 PM
  #2  
Hossfly
 
Hossfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Caney, TX
Posts: 6,130
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

There are a number of items that you have not addressed.

How is your club structured? What does the Bylaws (Constitution) say about discharging a member?

What may be in your Club Rules that your father is possibly either pushing the limit or not observing at all? The " No flying near the flight line or over spectators." rule could easily be pushed when doing 3D, especially that 'near the flightline' item.

Your web page is certainly out-of-date especially the AMA dues portion.

Since there is another post on this subject in another thread, even though you say the membership voted in his "right" to remain in the club, I tend to think all the story is not here.

Got more??


Hossfly is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2005, 11:48 PM
  #3  
mongo
My Feedback: (14)
 
mongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Midland, TX
Posts: 2,602
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

take a copy of the club by-laws to a good reputable attourney.
tell him yall story, show him any paperwork ya have from the club, and let him decide if they are following proceedure spelled out in their by-laws.
if not, sue everybody involved, club, landowner, ama, everybody.
mongo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2005, 11:51 PM
  #4  
Krumrei22
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Grand Rapids, MN
Posts: 4
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

There are no by-laws in any way shape or form in discharging a member.

As far as flying near the fence line...never happened. My father flys probably 100-300 feet in front if himself, well out of the range of the field. The only time he comes completely over the field, mostly in the middle is when doing high-speed passes.

It is not my website...the site is teribly outdated.

The membership did vote in his favor. However, the board feels that comment made during the heated discussion needs to be reviewed.

The comment was made that they were jelous that he is now flying 3D and the others cannot hack it.

Not much in terms of words, but now it is just another nitch for them to complain about.
Krumrei22 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 07:46 AM
  #5  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

Sounds like the typical circle jerk BOD syndrome to me... which is much too prevalent and made painfully obvious as evidenced by this forum over and over again. Take Mongo's advice and use the legal shotgun approach if all else fells
littlecrankshaf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 09:10 AM
  #6  
Red Scholefield
Banned
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Newberry, FL
Posts: 5,925
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

The e-mail addresses of the officers of the offending club are posted at their web site http://www.itascarc.com . It would be interesting to hear "the otherside of the story".
Red Scholefield is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 02:45 PM
  #7  
Jim Branaum
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 2,615
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

Actually, for your purposes not having a procedure in the by-laws works in your favor. While I might be inclined to take Mongo's suggestion and Littlecranksaf' second and run with it, there really is a much better way right there in black and white. Send a copy of the last meeting's minutes, by-laws, and letter with a complaint to the AMA. The club has taken action in violation of previously set AMA standards and charter needs to be withdrawn. Do that TODAY and the club along with the BOD will shortly be uninsured in this matter and need to be made aware of that.

Oh yes, be a nice guy and send it to AMA certified return receipt required along with copies the same way to the club BOD and your lawyer. Have fun.

Jim Branaum is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 06:18 PM
  #8  
J. Fouty
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Napoleon, OH
Posts: 11
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

The legal shutgun can backfire. Be diplomatic. Listen to the BODs reasons for their discontent. Find ways to get around them. A big 35%er takes alot of airspace, and many fliers will stay on the ground when it is flying. If your father is flying half hour flights one after the other this really cuts into the other members flying time, no matter how well the rules are being followed. When the field is busy break out the .40 size profiles,and practice. When it is time to show off by all means do it. Intimidated club members will do whatever it takes to remove the source of intimidation. Last but not least get elected to the BOD. Diplomacy is almost always the better solution. The legal shotgun cuts a wide swath, and innoscent bystanders are likely to be caught in the crossfire.
J. Fouty is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 09:00 PM
  #9  
Live Wire
Senior Member
 
Live Wire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

It looks like another good flyer gets the treatment. You will find out that a clique group will run the club, with the backing of a BOD same people. The only help you will get hear is a bigger problem than you have yes I have been there had it happen here What a club will do is make it so uncomfortable for your dad is that he will leave, for the their pressure on him. They have already let him no they do not want him there and they can and will use every thing in their power to get and keep him out.And believe it , Clubs can make new rules in a special executive meeting to fit the bill. Just one more thing Clubs use the AMA for a shield and a weapon .They will make threats of turning your dad into the AMA and with their so called pull with other clubs will try to get you banned from other flying sites. This is happening all over and I don't think their is any thing any one can do to stop it.
One less at the field is that much more time for the hot dog. They say in order to get good you have to fly Tell your dad good luck.
Live Wire is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 09:28 PM
  #10  
J_R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

ORIGINAL: RC Outlaw

It looks like another good flyer gets the treatment. You will find out that a clique group will run the club, with the backing of a BOD same people. The only help you will get hear is a bigger problem than you have yes I have been there had it happen here What a club will do is make it so uncomfortable for your dad is that he will leave, for the their pressure on him. They have already let him no they do not want him there and they can and will use every thing in their power to get and keep him out.And believe it , Clubs can make new rules in a special executive meeting to fit the bill. Just one more thing Clubs use the AMA for a shield and a weapon .They will make threats of turning your dad into the AMA and with their so called pull with other clubs will try to get you banned from other flying sites. This is happening all over and I don't think their is any thing any one can do to stop it.
One less at the field is that much more time for the hot dog. They say in order to get good you have to fly Tell your dad good luck.
Did you mean tire pressure? Do you really think the BOD will actually run him down with a car?

You know, RC, an apology would go a long way with your clubmates.

************
krumrei22

I am only assuming that these guys are trying to bushwack my dad again in trying to deny his right to be a member of the field.
Have your dad go talk to the BOD and find out. Why guess?
J_R is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 09:45 PM
  #11  
Live Wire
Senior Member
 
Live Wire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

"Dallas" again all we get is reruns I am the one that should get the apology. All I did was post the facts on RCU and pist them off. I did not try to cover any thing up and took the blame for what happened. All involved had a good laugh and are good friends but some wanted to make a big deal of it and flex some muscle
OH and my wife said to tell Sue Ellan HY
Live Wire is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 10:09 PM
  #12  
J_R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?


ORIGINAL: RC Outlaw

I am the one that should get the apology.
Are you flying at the club field? You can argue, and you can complain, and you can cry. Consider what standing on principle has brought you. Obviously, others in your prior club have a different opinion. Arguing with the guy that owns the land is not real likely to have a result you are happy with.

BTW, do you really think they would run over his dad? That's really cold!

J_R is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 10:40 PM
  #13  
Live Wire
Senior Member
 
Live Wire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

Seems as if you have all the answers. And I grew up with the owner of the field and his dad great people.
PS what would you do if you could not Quote or don't you have anything up there to store a message
More fun than flying
[8D]
Live Wire is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 10:49 PM
  #14  
drumbum
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
drumbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Posts: 1,834
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

buy yourself about 20 acres. problem solved[X(]
drumbum is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 11:13 PM
  #15  
Live Wire
Senior Member
 
Live Wire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

JR
You just proved a point for me and the club about posting "any where". This is on the wrong thread for both of us. I was warned buy a club member all that posting on a forum would do is cause problems with its members and friends. Some ppl like to just keep adding fuel to the fire. I would still like to no if you are one of those old Farts the Newbies are complaining about. See you on another thead
I does help to here both sides pro or con but all some do is sit in the shadow's and think their not seen
Live Wire is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 11:13 PM
  #16  
J_R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?


ORIGINAL: RC Outlaw

PS what would you do if you could not Quote or don't you have anything up there to store a message
What a great point!!! Why don't you read through this forum, back to the beginning and find out? If you read like you write, it will only take you about a year.
J_R is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2005, 11:42 PM
  #17  
tailskid
My Feedback: (34)
 
tailskid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tolleson, AZ
Posts: 9,412
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

Paul Krumrei, I lived in Minnesota and know what people from that part of the country can do if they are determined. I'd recommend a nice and calm chat with both you, your dad AND the BOD. They must have an axe to grind, so listen to what they are saying.

Jerry

PS Good luck and keep us posted....
tailskid is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2005, 01:51 AM
  #18  
Ione2fly
Senior Member
 
Ione2fly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Napoleon, OH
Posts: 167
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

J_R,

I'm still trying to stop laughing about the father being run over by a car and now has to much their pressure on him. [X(] I hope its not a cadillac, their pressure from one of those could kill someone!!!


R.F.A.
Ione2fly is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2005, 02:37 AM
  #19  
J_R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

Ione2fly

As I realize you know, from the other thread, RCOutlaw wants me to try harder to read his posts.

I do, I realllly, realllly do. I kinda figured it would be some kinda pick-up.
J_R is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2005, 09:59 AM
  #20  
TexasAirBoss
My Feedback: (22)
 
TexasAirBoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,972
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

As much as we try to standardize procedures, every club will always be a little different. There is just no way around it.

Since you are the new fellows at the club, I believe it is up to you to fit in with the way that they do things. And since someone mentioned that 3D was part of the equation, I can certainly see how feathers could get ruffled .

Someone has also mentioned diplomacy. That is certainly the preferred path. But it sounds as if that path may have failed you already. When it comes to misunderstandings, it is usually a two way street. I don't think you can proceed with the premise that I am right and they are wrong. If you are certain in that position, then you should absolutely find somewhere else to fly. Life is much too short to waste your time with people that you don't enjoy. Bad clubs rarely reform, they just get worse.
TexasAirBoss is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2005, 10:20 AM
  #21  
Live Wire
Senior Member
 
Live Wire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

JR
Get back on topic , Cady, Pick-up ? I say an air-bus, if some one is going to get run over lets do it right How ppl can take sides under pressure say 180 lbs.[&o]
Live Wire is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2005, 12:10 AM
  #22  
Krumrei22
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Grand Rapids, MN
Posts: 4
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

AS I stated in another thread, people just cannot stand to see another person advance in this sport.

Never in my life, have I seen such babies, crying because of nothing at all. People need to get over themselves and leave others alone.

I say, talk to an attorney and the county, because since it is county leased land, I feel that a discrimination lawsuit would put a sock in it!

Krumrei22 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2005, 08:00 AM
  #23  
CDignition
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 703
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

I have to say, this is likley the most facutal statement in this whole forum...I have experienced this first hand....

ORIGINAL: Krumrei22

AS I stated in another thread, people just cannot stand to see another person advance in this sport.

Never in my life, have I seen such babies, crying because of nothing at all. People need to get over themselves and leave others alone.

CDignition is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2005, 12:07 PM
  #24  
Roby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: AMESBURY, MA,
Posts: 1,128
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

Krumrei22

I think that it was last year ,or perhaps the year before that the AMA
published some type of rules that had to be used to remove a person
from a club. I didn't pay much attention to this article but I believe a
procedure is in place and must be used.


Good luck
Roby
Roby is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2005, 12:28 PM
  #25  
FLYBOY
My Feedback: (11)
 
FLYBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 9,036
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: How far will a Club go to kick you out?

Krumrei22

I feel your pain. I have had the seen the same problems first hand! Now I am seeing them again by the same group. I started flying with them when I was 12, teaching most newcomers 2 years later. They started making all sorts of new rules on how old you can be to teach and all the hoops you had to jump through. They didn't like it when noone followed their stupid rules and then reversed them. Later years when I went to flight school, the same people started pulling the same type crap. For what ever reason, they decided they needed to tell me what to fly and when. Being one that doesn't put up with that crap, I told them where to put it and they backed down. Years later, it surfaces again. Same members, different situations. I have been flying a blimp at the basketball games for 13 years. One member shows up this year at a game mid season, starts telling us we are doing everything wrong, and being a complete jerk. Needless to say, we all do it for fun and don't get anything for it other than fun, so we all walked away and he is saddled with it now. This particular member can't stand the fact that others are better or younger than him, and he is no hack. He is a fairly good pilot. He seems somehow to wrap some members around his finger and somehow loads the board with these members. He called the past president on the phone and told him to come to a meeting at the last minute, and when the guy got there, he was no longer president and doesn't understand why.

Problem is, most of us are in it for fun, so we fly when we want, and let this idiot play his little power games by himself. Noone puts up with them any more and he can play in his own little lonely world and be happy that he is the king. Sounds like what your dad is seeing.

One option we are considering is to go in and load the board ourselves and put an end to the games. Blow the bums out of power and they will probably slither down the street crying to themselves. All your dad has to do is be sick of it enough to go back down their throats with a vengance. It could be fun in the long run, but then he would have to run the club, which actually isn't that bad. WE did it in one club, and all the problem guys left. Might just be time to do it in the other as well. Sounds like your dad could do the same!

Tell him good luck!
FLYBOY is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service