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Well done, Joe...

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Old 03-06-2005, 07:47 PM
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Default Well done, Joe...

http://www.epa.gov/superfund/program...s/modelair.htm
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Old 03-06-2005, 08:16 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

old news

thread about it is way down on the list of threads already
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Old 03-06-2005, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

So?
I see it as much more important than most of the kiddie ride soap operas and petty squabbles from the same-old same-old crew that seem to be the MO here in this forum.
We are talking about thousands of possible fields. And pretty much one guy who made it happen.
So it merits more than a pat "oh, we talked about that already" and then back to "he said she said dave brown sux!" pointless prattle...
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Old 03-06-2005, 10:55 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...


ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

So?
I see it as much more important than most of the kiddie ride soap operas and petty squabbles from the same-old same-old crew that seem to be the MO here in this forum.
We are talking about thousands of possible fields. And pretty much one guy who made it happen.
So it merits more than a pat "oh, we talked about that already" and then back to "he said she said dave brown sux!" pointless prattle...
Amen, Tiger. Joe done good.

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Old 03-07-2005, 03:25 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...


Ditto ; it's good to periodically hear about / be reminded about some things that the AMA manages to do right.
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Old 03-07-2005, 07:47 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

it appears that the other thread has been deleted, or otherwise vanished, so easy probably had no way of knowing we had talked through this already, anyway.
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Old 03-07-2005, 10:04 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

So?
I see it as much more important than most of the kiddie ride soap operas and petty squabbles from the same-old same-old crew that seem to be the MO here in this forum.
We are talking about thousands of possible fields. And pretty much one guy who made it happen.
So it merits more than a pat "oh, we talked about that already" and then back to "he said she said dave brown sux!" pointless prattle...
Perhaps years of dealing with EPA and working many Superfund remediation projects has made me a bit skeptical of the mutual benefit of this arrangement (read the MOU). This is a step in the right direction and I applaud Joe's efforts. However, let me temper the enthusiasm by pointing out that of the thousands of Superfund sites around the country, many are the size of a city lot. Some are structures. Others are smack dab in the middle of residential neighborhoods. I doubt that there are but a few dozen that would be suitable for model aviation. There is keen competition for large remediated areas, especially landfills (look out for the soccer moms and open-landers (is that more PC than tree huggers?). OTOH, if we gain but one or two, it is certainly positive for the hobby. We can hope.

Steve
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Old 03-08-2005, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

How many Superfund sites are suitable? I dunno. I know plenty are just what you say, a single building and lot. But I think there are QUITE a lot more than "a few dozen" sites suitable for model airplanes.
Don't confuse the Superfund sites with normal landfill sites, different thing.
And Joe has been talking to THOSE people, too. He has given several presentations to the Amercan Federation of Waste Managers(or whoever they are called...the professional association of the guys who own and operate landfills), he seems to be making great progress in that direction, too.
Landfills are perfect for model fields. It's a match made in heaven. I dunno about soccer moms wanting their kids to play on landfills, nor treehuggers wanting to make them into open space, I've never heard of that. I've flown on a few landfill sites, and the guys in those clubs said pretty clearly that nobody wanted that land they were on.

I wonder if some of the negative energies in this forum might be channeled towards something better?
While some people talk and talk, others do and do.
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Old 03-08-2005, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

that other thread was not deleted. if you know a keyword that was in it I am sure I can locate it. doesn't sound like something that would need deleting and even if one guy went on a bender in it the mods would have only dealt with one post and not the thread back then.
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Old 03-08-2005, 11:03 AM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

The other thread is still there: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/What...2685305/tm.htm

I kinda thought the article EASYTIGER pointed to was much better, and the subject deserves to be revisited.
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Old 03-08-2005, 11:13 AM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

yall, are better at searching than i am.
i never get anything related to what i am looking for when i try to search.
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Old 03-08-2005, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

Maybe you should educate yourself a little more on how to search effectively. It might help you to learn some facts and figures and such about subjects, things that might be helpful and make you look a little more knowledgable before you post. Just a helpful suggestion.

Say...here's another question...how many of you guys are actually DOING anything positive for AMA and model aviation? I hear a lot of guys here complaining about how bad AMA and their elected officials are, but for the life of me, I don't see anybody actually DOING anything but complaining.
Or is that just my imagination?
Guys like Joe are acutally DOING stuff all the time. Finding fields, talking to government officials, organizing contests, writing articles, all sorts of stuff.
What have YOU done for AMA lately?
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Old 03-08-2005, 04:21 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

EASYTIGER

Good point, bad example. There are lots and lots of people out there that volunteer their time and make things better for us all. Guys like Bill Lee, Don Lowe, Bob Underwood and Fred Marks, as examples. Way, way too many to list.

On the other hand, Joe and Wes are staff, and results are expected of them.
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Old 03-08-2005, 05:35 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...


ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

<snip>

Say...here's another question...how many of you guys are actually DOING anything positive for AMA and model aviation? I hear a lot of guys here complaining about how bad AMA and their elected officials are, but for the life of me, I don't see anybody actually DOING anything but complaining.
Or is that just my imagination?
ET-

It isn't your imagination, but prolly more a matter of limitations on your field of view. For example in your reply to Steve, you were preaching to a member of the choir. Not only does the nature of his contact with the environmental agencies put him in a very good position to know what he talking about, It happens that the venue of some of his R/C activity is a closed landfill. Said landfill was acquired for that purpose many years before anyone at AMA went looking for them. It was a local association of clubs, and a lot of legwork by principals in that organization, that did it. I guess you could say it was of immediate benefit to model aviation, and AMA happens to benefit as a byproduct. BTW, I like the AMA official (DVP) that I get to vote for, and some others too..... actually, I think it may be most others after the last election cycle.

Abel
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Old 03-08-2005, 05:38 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

(in reply to JR)


Wrong.
I don't see THOSE guys hanging out HERE.
Secondup...neither Joe nor Wes are "staff." Neither of them get PAID. And Joe, at least, does not even come CLOSE to submitting all his expenses. And the position was created just to help him have a little more legitimacy to his efforts.
I don't know Bill Lee. Bob Underwood and Don Lowe have certainly put in THEIR time making things happen.

But what about these people who just sit on their duffs online and just pick away at the efforts of others?

You know who I am talking about. Maybe the lion's share of posters in this forum. A lot of hot air, no action.

But they have NO problem dismissing many years of efforts by others as "oh, we already talked about that..."
Five posts about THIS...securing hundreds of fields... and six hundred about some DVD club thing?
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Old 03-08-2005, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger


ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

<snip>

Say...here's another question...how many of you guys are actually DOING anything positive for AMA and model aviation? I hear a lot of guys here complaining about how bad AMA and their elected officials are, but for the life of me, I don't see anybody actually DOING anything but complaining.
Or is that just my imagination?
ET-

It isn't your imagination, but prolly more a matter of limitations on your field of view. For example in your reply to Steve, you were preaching to a member of the choir. Not only does the nature of his contact with the environmental agencies put him in a very good position to know what he talking about, It happens that the venue of some of his R/C activity is a closed landfill. Said landfill was acquired for that purpose many years before anyone at AMA went looking for them. It was a local association of clubs, and a lot of legwork by principals in that organization, that did it. I guess you could say it was of immediate benefit to model aviation, and AMA happens to benefit as a byproduct. BTW, I like the AMA official (DVP) that I get to vote for, and some others too..... actually, I think it may be most others after the last election cycle.

Abel

Good stuff. When you actually go down to the field, as opposed to this forum, you usually get a very, very different perspective than the one presented here. And the elections show that, too.
There have been a few landfills made into fields already, of course, but here is a mechanism put into place wherin a club looking for a field can find out exactly where such suitable facilities are, and a conduit to speak to the right people, and a proven track record of how it's done, from the national level...thereby eliminating most of that legwork you're talking about.

Also...we are talking about two different things. Landfills in general...and Superfund sites, most of which are not landfills...
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:06 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

(in reply to JR)


Wrong.
I don't see THOSE guys hanging out HERE.
Secondup...neither Joe nor Wes are "staff." Neither of them get PAID. And Joe, at least, does not even come CLOSE to submitting all his expenses. And the position was created just to help him have a little more legitimacy to his efforts.
I don't know Bill Lee. Bob Underwood and Don Lowe have certainly put in THEIR time making things happen.

But what about these people who just sit on their duffs online and just pick away at the efforts of others?

You know who I am talking about. Maybe the lion's share of posters in this forum. A lot of hot air, no action.

But they have NO problem dismissing many years of efforts by others as "oh, we already talked about that..."
Five posts about THIS...securing hundreds of fields... and six hundred about some DVD club thing?
I beg to differ with you. They are paid.

Edit:
Banging on mongo is not a wise move either. I have met him in person, and I will tell you that he is as good an ambasador for modeling as anyone I know.

If you doubt that Joe and Wes are paid, ask them, or Dave Brown, or your VP or anyone at HQ in a position to know. It's not a secret.
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

How many Superfund sites are suitable? I dunno. I know plenty are just what you say, a single building and lot. But I think there are QUITE a lot more than "a few dozen" sites suitable for model airplanes.
Don't confuse the Superfund sites with normal landfill sites, different thing.
And Joe has been talking to THOSE people, too. He has given several presentations to the Amercan Federation of Waste Managers(or whoever they are called...the professional association of the guys who own and operate landfills), he seems to be making great progress in that direction, too.
Landfills are perfect for model fields. It's a match made in heaven. I dunno about soccer moms wanting their kids to play on landfills, nor treehuggers wanting to make them into open space, I've never heard of that. I've flown on a few landfill sites, and the guys in those clubs said pretty clearly that nobody wanted that land they were on.

I wonder if some of the negative energies in this forum might be channeled towards something better?
While some people talk and talk, others do and do.
I have worked on numerous Superfund sites from Lackawanna at Old Forge, PA to McColl in Fullerton, CA. My club flies on a closed landfill. I don't think I'm the one who is confused here.

I am well aware of desireability of landfills (appropriately located) for model aviation. We currently fly on a closed landfill. Another local club is negotiating with the county for another recently closed landfill.

Regarding soccer moms and open space, my company is currently involved in capping a large landfill in Santa Barbara County, CA . When completed, it will be home to what is rumored as the largest soccer field complex in the western US. The site we fly on is, according to the County General Plan, going to be open recreational space at some not too distant future date.

Don't take my guarded optimism as negativity, please.



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Old 03-08-2005, 06:52 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

[
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER


Good stuff. When you actually go down to the field, as opposed to this forum, you usually get a very, very different perspective than the one presented here. And the elections show that, too.
There have been a few landfills made into fields already, of course, but here is a mechanism put into place wherin a club looking for a field can find out exactly where such suitable facilities are, and a conduit to speak to the right people, and a proven track record of how it's done, from the national level...thereby eliminating most of that legwork you're talking about.

Also...we are talking about two different things. Landfills in general...and Superfund sites, most of which are not landfills...
I think you are the one confused or are at least mixing your statements. The only mechanism in place (and it's really just a MOU) is with the EPA for Superfund sites. Geez I think that's what you started this thread with. Even though Joe is working with the landfill folks, it may be a while before anything is in place with them. Track record? what proven track record. AFAIK, no new sites have yet resulted from Joe's efforts.

Apologies for being *****y and splitting hairs....I've been dealing with environmental attorneys since yesterday morning and it already seems like Friday.
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Old 03-08-2005, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...

Guarded optimism is AOK by me.
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Old 03-08-2005, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: Well done, Joe...


ORIGINAL: skerrin

<snip>

I think you are the one confused or are at least mixing your statements. The only mechanism in place (and it's really just a MOU) is with the EPA for Superfund sites. Geez I think that's what you started this thread with. Even though Joe is working with the landfill folks, it may be a while before anything is in place with them. Track record? what proven track record. AFAIK, no new sites have yet resulted from Joe's efforts.
This may be picking nits from Bandini Mountain, but there has been a meeting-of-minds between Beshar, De Cou & Co and Waste Management Co, the same outfit that will pick up my trash come Thurs AM. Dunno if if there is a formal agreement to grace the wall, but there is agreement nonetheless that got mention in AMA News sometime in the last couple of years.
Another thought crossed my mind re the aforementioned county association and getting use of landfill (among other) sites for clubs. At the first AMA confab held in Pasadena (yr?), I attended a meeting with AMA honchos (DB, S Frank, J Mealy, J Hager and C Bauer are among those I recall were present). A couple of officers from the county assn of model clubs were there and related briefly their org's experience with gaining model fields. The potential of landfills was a central topic of their brief and some ensuing discussion. Would be interesting to know if the seed of related current Flying Site Assistance efforts was planted then and there.

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