Downtrodden

Has the AMA's insurance carrier ever paid off on an accident that was caused by an AMA member? I hear about everything that isn't covered and I'm beginning to think that just my homeowner's policy would be the best coverage to have. Is the criteria for coverage so narrow that few instances are covered? Thanks

Hossfly

YES.

Live Wire

Fine print you have to read the fine print. In your home owners and the AMA supplement Ins. You may not be covered by either one[:@] One claim and you may loose one or both depends how it is worded and DEPENDING ON THE ACTIONS of the parties involved.

Downtrodden

Hossfly........is your answer prompted from personal experience or a friends? I'm looking for instances here. Thanks

Crashem

This is the wrong place to go looking for that info. I'd suggest skipping this colorfull forum and call the AMA headquarters.
BTW unless the accident is huge your homeowners is going to take care of it any way AMA insurance is secondary to any other liability insurance.

Montague

For some reason, the AMA has a history of not giving out specifics about accident rates and payments made. I won't guess as to why that might be.

So, if you want something like "Person A flying airplane B crashed and caused injury/loss to person C, and the AMA paied out X dollars", I don't think you are going to get that kind of info. Espeially not here.

However, on several occasions, various people at AMA HQ have written in MA about payments made in cases, and in very general terms about the over all amount paid out, and the types of accidents. (ie, half are for "slip and fall" type accidents, so by deduction, about half are directly flying related).

So, do we know the insurance paid out? Yes. Do we have specifics handy? I don't, and I suspect they are few and far between.

It's also important to keep in mind a couple of things. A lot of people use the saftey code and the threat of not being covered as a "Big Stick" and imply that if you ever break any rule in the code you are automatically not covered. That's not true. There ARE exclusions and certain types of things aren't covered, as I understand it, but I don't pretend to know what is and isn't.

J_R

2003 incident report from the .pdf section on the AMA site. http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/500-B.pdf

2004 report should be out soon.

Montague

J_R,

Thanks for posting it. Unfortunatly, with out more information, it really doesn't tell us anything, and it doesn't actually address the OP question.

Since claims that are paid are grouped with claimed that are denied and claims that just expired due to the paperwork not getting in on time, there's no way to know how often the AMA insurance actually paid out.

Also, we don't know how many "closed" claims came from the prior, or how many Initiated will carry over to 2004.

Not being a lawyer, I'm also curious about the distinction between BI and Med. I *think* that BI is a claim above and beyond actual medical costs? I also assume that some of the numbers in the BI and Med columns come from the same incidents, as well as some overlap with PD.

Still, it does give a general idea of how often things go wrong enough for someone to want money for it. "Only" 76 PD's for how many members? That doesn't seem bad to me at all.

J_R

Montague

You pretty well sumed it up.

Keep in mind that what are the vast majority of claims by individuals are probably being covered by primary insurance. While the AMA insurance may be primary, most times it is going to be excess.

Montague

J_R,

Right. But I wonder how many of the cases that are covered entirely by someone's primary coverage wind up "reported" then "closed". I suspect a lot of guys wind up calling the AMA first, and are then told to check with their homeowner's policy. If that happens, wouldn't it be scored that way? Obviously, if someone never calls the AMA about an accident, then it wouldn't be listed.

J_R

The number of claims not reported is very high, particulary medical and property damage claims. The AMA would love to know about all of them so they could compile accurate info.

carwood444

Which one of you guys is an insurance agent. Can someone please post any section of your Home Owners Policy that shows how you would be covered by insurance flying an R/C or model airplane.

I am not taking a shot at anyone I just want to know what part of Home Owners covers this activity.

Hossfly

My United Services Automobile Association (USAA) policy, HO insurance, in the Liability section excludes the usual aircraft uses but states: " An aircraft means any contrivance used or designed for flight, except model or hobby aircraft not used or designed to carry people or cargo."

In addition I have a letter that states that model aircraft are included as insured under the policy.


No need to worry. If your HO doesn't cover then AMA takes up the slack. Let the sharks fight it out among themselves.

carwood444

Does that mean that the value of the plane is insured, or is it the value of the plane and property damage, and injury. The reason I am asking this is because in alot of cases you need a special rider attachment to cover anything other than just loss of property. And even loss of property may not be covered without a rider under certain conditions.

I somehow feel that somewhere in the fine print there is a clause as is true with most polices that releases the insurance company from any kind of liabilty. This is true with several companies.

Here's a good example. If I insure my tools and equipment that i carry in my trailer, the only time theft insurance kicks in is if my tools are in a locked building. In other words I would have to park my locked trailer in a locked building for the insurance to pay for any loss.

Further more it states i have to be able to prove the premisses was secure at the time of the loss. That is what I am talking about. The fine print needs to be looked at very carefully. I have had only a couple claims in the last 30 some years and small ones at that. The insurance has always found a way out.

This always seems to leave me walking away scratching my head saying to myself why am I even paying insurance.

Muxje

That's not necessarily good news. My Personal Liability insurance policy covers me for liability 'not covered by any other policies held by the insured party'. The 3rd party liabilty insurance offered by our national modelers' association has a similar caveat.

In such cases, insurance companies have been known to fight for years, without paying a single dime until the matter was settled.

Montague

carwood, it sounds like you need another insurance company .

I'm not an insurance agent, or involved in the insurance trade in any way.

I did call my insurance company a while back (also USAA, as with Hossfly), and they confirmed that if I hurt someone or something, they'd cover the property damage and medical. It's basically the same kind of thing as someone tripping and falling on your front steps. No property damage there either, but there is injury, and they do cover it.

Hossfly

Carwood:
Perhaps you should define within your own mind the differences between the personal recovery -- fire, theft, windstorm, etc., -- and LIABILITY sections of an insurance policy/policies. HO may not recover those tool losses, however did you consider your auto policy section / theft clause? Your company may well require a special rider for the trailer. I have my large trailer on my insurance policy along with my autos. IMO, best to rattle the brain BEFORE than to shake the head afterwards.

abel_pranger

Muxje-
It's very common in the US to have overlapping liability coverage. Owning multiple houses and having multiple HO and landlord policies is an example from my own experience. If I get into a liability situation, I will file a claim with one of the insurance companies, which will defend the case and pay any judgment or settlement. Then they will seek reimbursement from the other insurers that provide overlapping coverage by a process known as subrogation. Laws vary by state regarding what share each insurer must pay, though it is by a fixed formula in every state that I know of. In some states the cost is spread 50/50 (if two insurers are involved), sometimes the split is proportionate to the limits of the policies. The important thing is that it happens after the claim is paid, so isn't an issue the insured needs to be concerned about.

Abel