AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
03-16-2005, 04:46 PM
#77
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
Either this stuff happens or it doesn’t. What is real and what is bull? Only the real stuff matters. If CDs in events, whether turbine or other events knowingly put people at risk, then it needs to stop. The AMA came up with a way to allow the turbine waiver holders, and by extension, any other aircraft, to have first flights or repaired planes fly and qualify for an event on the day of the event. If that is, in fact, being abused, the EC needs to address it. If it is a matter of “what if”, and never happens in real life, it makes no difference. We can “what if” everything to death. Seems to me we have a President that does enough of that for all of us. Who knows, maybe he should.
The assertion has been made that the AMA did this to avoid liability. I don’t think so. I think it was done to help modelers, without placing spectators at risk. Does there have to be some nefarious motive to every thing that takes place involving the AMA? Could it be that the organization actually has the benefit of the membership as a primary goal? What a concept!
Questions have been raised as to what happens if a CD is told by someone in Muncie to do something have been raised, by implication. It is not clear to me that anyone in Muncie has the authority to tell a CD to do anything other than what is in the rules during a period where the sanction is in force. Is that what we want? A VP or other official to be able to say “stop this event.” Or “leave the premises?” I don’t think that authority exists. This is exactly what is being debated on the Article X rewrite. Just how much authority should be given to any AMA official. What do you do with 100 contestants if the sanction is pulled in the middle of an event? Where is the due process for the CD? Leave authority in the hands of the CD and make the CD understand his responsibility.
Due process for a contestant lies in the hands of the CD. That is within his authority, up to and including ejecting the contestant. Beyond that, he must rely on the police. He can’t confiscate a plane, or pull a gun to enforce his authority. Sure, he can report the offender later, but, he must maintain control of safety during the period when a sanction is in force. He is it. Other than the CD, who cares if the CD is sued? The CD has accepted responsibility by applying for a sanction and should be aware that he can be named in a suit. The AMA will defend him and insure him IF he does what he is supposed to. Who cares if the AMA, NAA, FAA or the pizza shop are sued? They have to stand to their responsibilities as well.
Branaum brings up one alleged violation. IIRC there is another reported somewhere in this forum that has a CD flying a 125 pound plane after an event.. another violation. If this is an every week occurrence at many events, we have a problem and it needs to be fixed. If these violations happen somewhere, sometime, in small numbers, we have to excuse them as mistakes, IMO. The CD needs to be re-educated as to his responsibility and life goes on.
If you are a CD and don’t want the responsibility of a sanction, don’t apply for a sanction. It just that simple. If you do, understand your responsibility and step up to it.
The assertion has been made that the AMA did this to avoid liability. I don’t think so. I think it was done to help modelers, without placing spectators at risk. Does there have to be some nefarious motive to every thing that takes place involving the AMA? Could it be that the organization actually has the benefit of the membership as a primary goal? What a concept!
Questions have been raised as to what happens if a CD is told by someone in Muncie to do something have been raised, by implication. It is not clear to me that anyone in Muncie has the authority to tell a CD to do anything other than what is in the rules during a period where the sanction is in force. Is that what we want? A VP or other official to be able to say “stop this event.” Or “leave the premises?” I don’t think that authority exists. This is exactly what is being debated on the Article X rewrite. Just how much authority should be given to any AMA official. What do you do with 100 contestants if the sanction is pulled in the middle of an event? Where is the due process for the CD? Leave authority in the hands of the CD and make the CD understand his responsibility.
Due process for a contestant lies in the hands of the CD. That is within his authority, up to and including ejecting the contestant. Beyond that, he must rely on the police. He can’t confiscate a plane, or pull a gun to enforce his authority. Sure, he can report the offender later, but, he must maintain control of safety during the period when a sanction is in force. He is it. Other than the CD, who cares if the CD is sued? The CD has accepted responsibility by applying for a sanction and should be aware that he can be named in a suit. The AMA will defend him and insure him IF he does what he is supposed to. Who cares if the AMA, NAA, FAA or the pizza shop are sued? They have to stand to their responsibilities as well.
Branaum brings up one alleged violation. IIRC there is another reported somewhere in this forum that has a CD flying a 125 pound plane after an event.. another violation. If this is an every week occurrence at many events, we have a problem and it needs to be fixed. If these violations happen somewhere, sometime, in small numbers, we have to excuse them as mistakes, IMO. The CD needs to be re-educated as to his responsibility and life goes on.
If you are a CD and don’t want the responsibility of a sanction, don’t apply for a sanction. It just that simple. If you do, understand your responsibility and step up to it.
03-16-2005, 05:44 PM
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
ORIGINAL: J_R
How do you read that Matt? I think it is pretty clear what Gordon asserts.
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
JR, maybe I have not had enough coffeee this morning, but just WHERE did you see Gordon say that, in his observation, CDs are leaving in the middle of events to allow maidens?
I have personally NEVER seen this action, nor ever heard it even MENTIONED even during the many late night planning sessions at the hotel bar...NEVER ONCE.
JR, maybe I have not had enough coffeee this morning, but just WHERE did you see Gordon say that, in his observation, CDs are leaving in the middle of events to allow maidens?
I have personally NEVER seen this action, nor ever heard it even MENTIONED even during the many late night planning sessions at the hotel bar...NEVER ONCE.
post #68
quote: JR
Most of this discussion has been about a technicality that allows a maiden flight to be performed on the date of a sanction. It never occurred to me that any CD would be so callous or insensitive to safety that those flights might be performed in the middle of an event.
Most of this discussion has been about a technicality that allows a maiden flight to be performed on the date of a sanction. It never occurred to me that any CD would be so callous or insensitive to safety that those flights might be performed in the middle of an event.
Gordon
Not even after me pointing it out several times ?
Not even after me pointing it out several times ?
Gordon
03-16-2005, 06:04 PM
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
In that case you appear to be mistaken. Based on my understanding of the English language, "would be" is most certainly not synonymous with "has been".
Gordon
ORIGINAL: J_R
How do you read that Matt? I think it is pretty clear what Gordon asserts.
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
JR, maybe I have not had enough coffeee this morning, but just WHERE did you see Gordon say that, in his observation, CDs are leaving in the middle of events to allow maidens?
I have personally NEVER seen this action, nor ever heard it even MENTIONED even during the many late night planning sessions at the hotel bar...NEVER ONCE.
JR, maybe I have not had enough coffeee this morning, but just WHERE did you see Gordon say that, in his observation, CDs are leaving in the middle of events to allow maidens?
I have personally NEVER seen this action, nor ever heard it even MENTIONED even during the many late night planning sessions at the hotel bar...NEVER ONCE.
post #68
quote: JR
Most of this discussion has been about a technicality that allows a maiden flight to be performed on the date of a sanction. It never occurred to me that any CD would be so callous or insensitive to safety that those flights might be performed in the middle of an event.
Most of this discussion has been about a technicality that allows a maiden flight to be performed on the date of a sanction. It never occurred to me that any CD would be so callous or insensitive to safety that those flights might be performed in the middle of an event.
Gordon
Not even after me pointing it out several times ?
Not even after me pointing it out several times ?
Gordon
03-16-2005, 06:49 PM
#80
RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
ORIGINAL: J_R
//SNIP//
Questions have been raised as to what happens if a CD is told by someone in Muncie to do something have been raised, by implication. It is not clear to me that anyone in Muncie has the authority to tell a CD to do anything other than what is in the rules during a period where the sanction is in force. Is that what we want? A VP or other official to be able to say “stop this event.” Or “leave the premises?” I don’t think that authority exists. This is exactly what is being debated on the Article X rewrite. Just how much authority should be given to any AMA official. What do you do with 100 contestants if the sanction is pulled in the middle of an event? Where is the due process for the CD? Leave authority in the hands of the CD and make the CD understand his responsibility.
Due process for a contestant lies in the hands of the CD. That is within his authority, up to and including ejecting the contestant. Beyond that, he must rely on the police. He can’t confiscate a plane, or pull a gun to enforce his authority.
//SNIP//
Questions have been raised as to what happens if a CD is told by someone in Muncie to do something have been raised, by implication. It is not clear to me that anyone in Muncie has the authority to tell a CD to do anything other than what is in the rules during a period where the sanction is in force. Is that what we want? A VP or other official to be able to say “stop this event.” Or “leave the premises?” I don’t think that authority exists. This is exactly what is being debated on the Article X rewrite. Just how much authority should be given to any AMA official. What do you do with 100 contestants if the sanction is pulled in the middle of an event? Where is the due process for the CD? Leave authority in the hands of the CD and make the CD understand his responsibility.
Due process for a contestant lies in the hands of the CD. That is within his authority, up to and including ejecting the contestant. Beyond that, he must rely on the police. He can’t confiscate a plane, or pull a gun to enforce his authority.
)
//snip//
If you are a CD and don’t want the responsibility of a sanction, don’t apply for a sanction. It just that simple. If you do, understand your responsibility and step up to it.
If you are a CD and don’t want the responsibility of a sanction, don’t apply for a sanction. It just that simple. If you do, understand your responsibility and step up to it.
As far as I am concerned, RIGHT OR WRONG, the event starts at the advertised time of registration, and continues until the advertised closing or that closing so agreed upon by the contestants/participants, or when the event is completed, awards made and participants are beginning to leave. Before that time, the field is open for open flying and is again opened after the time as I stated above. Whatever happens then is under the host club's rules and the sanctioned event IS EITHER NOT YET OR NO LONGER TAKING PLACE. I might be right out there doing the open flying.
As far as so called "maidens" they don't happen during the time the event is taking place regardless of who, when, what is wherever!!
The Safety Code says: "General #4. I will not fly my model aircraft in sanctioned events, air shows, or model demonstrations until it has been proven airworthy." Until it has been flown it isn't proven airworthy.
If I am doing an IMAA fly-in, their rule is that the model must have been flown at least 6 times. OK so the pilot's word is what we have. In that same vein, there must be a safety reviews, yet the pilot is the person that determines the airworthiness of the model. The review "Safety Officer" can only ground the model if the pilot fails to perform the safety review.
At any sanctioned event, although it states for competition, the "Flight Declaration Safety Review" is signed by all participants to the effect that both he/she and the airplane can perform the required maneuvers.
So before flying the pilot says he and it can do. Now if a model has been repaired during the course of the event, at an AMA RC event, the model needs only a range check. An IMAA event requires another safety review if the model has been in any accident.
At contests I have during lunch breaks, etc, allowed "trim flights" for repaired models, but not any first timers.
That is what I do. If the AMA wishes to have it done differently they need only to inform me by written communication on letterhead through my Dist. VP's endorsement. I will follow such directions. E-mails from staffers will be ignored.
I established the first ever CD training which back then was very effective. After I left the EC that program degenerated to a non-effective chore.
I served on a committee to review and establish new procedures and responsibilities for both AMA and CDs. That work was ignored.
As I say, if AMA doesn't like my interpretations and procedures as a CD, so be it. I do this for model aviation and for the good times we have doing it. End of story. [8D]
03-16-2005, 07:07 PM
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
JR-
As this thread has gone off on many tangents, I'd like to review what you intended to discuss.
You started this thread to discuss what you perceived to be a problem (correct me if I'm wrong here or anywhere in what follows). Paraphrasing:
Background: It is important that CDs understand the rules and their responsibilities
Problem: Some of our uninformed CDs do not understand the rules and responsibilities
Solution: Apparently the object of soliciting discussion
You the cited an example that you described as 'the most extreme example," and described a situation, and cited a rule that applies to the situation. You did not go beyond that to suggest what should be done to resolve the problem or who should do it. I presume that is why you posted it for discussion, to solicit inputs from others that address those questions.
In the course of ensuing discussion you did demonstrate that you, a CD, were uninformed (re the cited rule applicable in the case of the most extreme manifestation of the problem) by equating "sanction in effect" with "landlord's insurance coverage in effect," so you have proved an underlying assumption correct. I don't think there is anyone that seriously disagrees that it is important for CDs to know what they are doing, so your thesis seems to be well founded.
After near 80 posts, do you feel any closer than you were with the first to a recommendation (to the AMA EC or ED, or whomever is appropriate) as what options might be available to resolve the problem, and who should be assigned the action? If not, do you have any preconceived ideas of you own that you want to put up for discussion?
Abel
As this thread has gone off on many tangents, I'd like to review what you intended to discuss.
You started this thread to discuss what you perceived to be a problem (correct me if I'm wrong here or anywhere in what follows). Paraphrasing:
Background: It is important that CDs understand the rules and their responsibilities
Problem: Some of our uninformed CDs do not understand the rules and responsibilities
Solution: Apparently the object of soliciting discussion
You the cited an example that you described as 'the most extreme example," and described a situation, and cited a rule that applies to the situation. You did not go beyond that to suggest what should be done to resolve the problem or who should do it. I presume that is why you posted it for discussion, to solicit inputs from others that address those questions.
In the course of ensuing discussion you did demonstrate that you, a CD, were uninformed (re the cited rule applicable in the case of the most extreme manifestation of the problem) by equating "sanction in effect" with "landlord's insurance coverage in effect," so you have proved an underlying assumption correct. I don't think there is anyone that seriously disagrees that it is important for CDs to know what they are doing, so your thesis seems to be well founded.
After near 80 posts, do you feel any closer than you were with the first to a recommendation (to the AMA EC or ED, or whomever is appropriate) as what options might be available to resolve the problem, and who should be assigned the action? If not, do you have any preconceived ideas of you own that you want to put up for discussion?
Abel
03-16-2005, 07:31 PM
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
Horrace,
You have posted your opinion, and I will not seek to dissuade you from it. However, I post here two paragraphs from the General Section of the Competition Regulations. The highlights are mine. I know the message will not be lost on you.
JR
Interpretation. There are many precedents to follow in not upholding the letter of the law in rule enforcement! This is frequently necessary if the rule language is inadequate or unclear. However, the intent is usually understood and this should be the determining factor in decisions. The Judge’s Guide, if one is available for an event in question, should be influential in decision making because it points up the intent of the rules. On the other hand, where the language is clear, there should be no question of following a rule exactly as written.
CONTEST DIRECTORS
A “CONTEST DIRECTOR” is a title bestowed on a selected individual that is already a member of AMA and has been for a minimum of three consecutive years. The Contest Director has the authority to administrate and supervise AMA Sanctioned Events under those procedures and guidelines as prescribed by the AMA Executive Council. The Contest Director acts as a representative for AMA in the administration of sanctioned events. There is a high level of responsibility as a result of this status. The concerns of properly applying the rules, maintaining fairness, and providing high levels of safety in connection with the event are basic. In acting as the Academy’s representative, the CD is protected by Insurance and, if necessary, legal support. It should be noted, however, that such protection requires that the task be done in a competent manner.
You have posted your opinion, and I will not seek to dissuade you from it. However, I post here two paragraphs from the General Section of the Competition Regulations. The highlights are mine. I know the message will not be lost on you.
JR
Interpretation. There are many precedents to follow in not upholding the letter of the law in rule enforcement! This is frequently necessary if the rule language is inadequate or unclear. However, the intent is usually understood and this should be the determining factor in decisions. The Judge’s Guide, if one is available for an event in question, should be influential in decision making because it points up the intent of the rules. On the other hand, where the language is clear, there should be no question of following a rule exactly as written.
CONTEST DIRECTORS
A “CONTEST DIRECTOR” is a title bestowed on a selected individual that is already a member of AMA and has been for a minimum of three consecutive years. The Contest Director has the authority to administrate and supervise AMA Sanctioned Events under those procedures and guidelines as prescribed by the AMA Executive Council. The Contest Director acts as a representative for AMA in the administration of sanctioned events. There is a high level of responsibility as a result of this status. The concerns of properly applying the rules, maintaining fairness, and providing high levels of safety in connection with the event are basic. In acting as the Academy’s representative, the CD is protected by Insurance and, if necessary, legal support. It should be noted, however, that such protection requires that the task be done in a competent manner.
03-16-2005, 07:37 PM
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
ORIGINAL: J_R (post #3)
The CD program is in disarray and has been for years. The AMA needs to address the program. Possibly a handbook just for CD’s needs to be made available. There are just too many CDs that do not understand the responsibilty of accepting the role of being an agent for the AMA.
The CD program is in disarray and has been for years. The AMA needs to address the program. Possibly a handbook just for CD’s needs to be made available. There are just too many CDs that do not understand the responsibilty of accepting the role of being an agent for the AMA.
03-16-2005, 08:25 PM
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
ORIGINAL: J_R
ORIGINAL: J_R (post #3)
The CD program is in disarray and has been for years. The AMA needs to address the program. Possibly a handbook just for CD’s needs to be made available. There are just too many CDs that do not understand the responsibilty of accepting the role of being an agent for the AMA.
The CD program is in disarray and has been for years. The AMA needs to address the program. Possibly a handbook just for CD’s needs to be made available. There are just too many CDs that do not understand the responsibilty of accepting the role of being an agent for the AMA.
Abel
03-16-2005, 09:22 PM
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
So the AMA needs to address the program. The EC? The general membership? The sampling of the general membership represented in this forum? Is whomever you want to take notice/action regarding your observation (CD Program is in disarray) able to parse 'disarray' into what you perceive to be significant elements of the problem, so that a plan of corrective action might be drafted to resolve them? How many is "just too many" CDs that do not understand, as a fraction of the total number? How often does their lack of undrstanding of the CD role cause problems in the running of sanctioned events, and what are the historical consequences of those problems? If a CD Handbook is made available, will people read it?
Abel
So the AMA needs to address the program. The EC? The general membership? The sampling of the general membership represented in this forum? Is whomever you want to take notice/action regarding your observation (CD Program is in disarray) able to parse 'disarray' into what you perceive to be significant elements of the problem, so that a plan of corrective action might be drafted to resolve them? How many is "just too many" CDs that do not understand, as a fraction of the total number? How often does their lack of undrstanding of the CD role cause problems in the running of sanctioned events, and what are the historical consequences of those problems? If a CD Handbook is made available, will people read it?
Abel
abel pranger (post 5)
I'm not a CD, and don't compete, but it is my concern.
I'm not a CD, and don't compete, but it is my concern.
J_R (post 3 again)
I know you are not a CD. I realize you are not responsible for knowing or understanding what is required for a sanction. If you would like to know the details, you are going to have to read information available about the process. I can’t reasonably post it all. The link in the initial post is a good start.
I know you are not a CD. I realize you are not responsible for knowing or understanding what is required for a sanction. If you would like to know the details, you are going to have to read information available about the process. I can’t reasonably post it all. The link in the initial post is a good start.
There is, as with most other information about the AMA, no statistical information.
I have conveyed my opinions to those that can do something about the problem (named in those documents I pointed you to) repeatedly. Bottom line: scrap the existing program and start over.
I have come to realize that no one reads much of anything.
03-16-2005, 10:13 PM
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
ORIGINAL: J_R
The answer to most of your questions lie in the documents I pointed you to.
<snip>
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
So the AMA needs to address the program. The EC? The general membership? The sampling of the general membership represented in this forum? Is whomever you want to take notice/action regarding your observation (CD Program is in disarray) able to parse 'disarray' into what you perceive to be significant elements of the problem, so that a plan of corrective action might be drafted to resolve them? How many is "just too many" CDs that do not understand, as a fraction of the total number? How often does their lack of undrstanding of the CD role cause problems in the running of sanctioned events, and what are the historical consequences of those problems? If a CD Handbook is made available, will people read it?
Abel
So the AMA needs to address the program. The EC? The general membership? The sampling of the general membership represented in this forum? Is whomever you want to take notice/action regarding your observation (CD Program is in disarray) able to parse 'disarray' into what you perceive to be significant elements of the problem, so that a plan of corrective action might be drafted to resolve them? How many is "just too many" CDs that do not understand, as a fraction of the total number? How often does their lack of undrstanding of the CD role cause problems in the running of sanctioned events, and what are the historical consequences of those problems? If a CD Handbook is made available, will people read it?
Abel
abel pranger (post 5)
I'm not a CD, and don't compete, but it is my concern.
I'm not a CD, and don't compete, but it is my concern.
J_R (post 3 again)
I know you are not a CD. I realize you are not responsible for knowing or understanding what is required for a sanction. If you would like to know the details, you are going to have to read information available about the process. I can’t reasonably post it all. The link in the initial post is a good start.
I know you are not a CD. I realize you are not responsible for knowing or understanding what is required for a sanction. If you would like to know the details, you are going to have to read information available about the process. I can’t reasonably post it all. The link in the initial post is a good start.
<snip>
If you would be so kind, please cite a paragraph in one of those documents you refered me to that answers just one of my questions. As a CD that is responsible for knowing and understanding what is required for a sanction, I trust that it won't trouble you very much to find it.
BTW, what is an AMA sanction? I recall the question came up at an EC meeting when some among them wanted to pull the sanction from an event sponsored by Frank Tiano in FL, and nobody present at the EC meeting knew. Have they figured it out since?
Abel
03-16-2005, 10:31 PM
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
JR-
If you would be so kind, please cite a paragraph in one of those documents you refered me to that answers just one of my questions. As a CD that is responsible for knowing and understanding what is required for a sanction, I trust that it won't trouble you very much to find it.
BTW, what is an AMA sanction? I recall the question came up at an EC meeting when some among them wanted to pull the sanction from an event sponsored by Frank Tiano in FL, and nobody present at the EC meeting knew. Have they figured it out since?
Abel
JR-
If you would be so kind, please cite a paragraph in one of those documents you refered me to that answers just one of my questions. As a CD that is responsible for knowing and understanding what is required for a sanction, I trust that it won't trouble you very much to find it.
BTW, what is an AMA sanction? I recall the question came up at an EC meeting when some among them wanted to pull the sanction from an event sponsored by Frank Tiano in FL, and nobody present at the EC meeting knew. Have they figured it out since?
Abel
AMA SANCTIONED EVENTS
AMA sanctions contests, fly for fun meets,
demonstrations, and other flying events. An AMA sanction
means that the activity is endorsed by the Academy, is
supervised by an AMA Contest Director (CD), is intended
for AMA members only, and that the dates are protected
from competing AMA activities in the vicinity.
Overall, the AMA Executive Council is responsible to
correct the deficiencies in the AMA Contest Director
program. The changes should be aimed at protecting AMA
against potential liability, while maintaining and motivating
AMA members to perform the volunteer service of
Contest Director. Where the position is abused, AMA
needs to be ready to act fairly, yet remove the CD
designation, if such be warranted
03-16-2005, 10:39 PM
#89
RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
ORIGINAL: J_R
//snip//
JR
Interpretation. There are many precedents to follow in not upholding the letter of the law in rule enforcement! This is frequently necessary if the rule language is inadequate or unclear. However, the intent is usually understood and this should be the determining factor in decisions. The Judge’s Guide, if one is available for an event in question, should be influential in decision making because it points up the intent of the rules. On the other hand, where the language is clear, there should be no question of following a rule exactly as written.
//snip//
JR
Interpretation. There are many precedents to follow in not upholding the letter of the law in rule enforcement! This is frequently necessary if the rule language is inadequate or unclear. However, the intent is usually understood and this should be the determining factor in decisions. The Judge’s Guide, if one is available for an event in question, should be influential in decision making because it points up the intent of the rules. On the other hand, where the language is clear, there should be no question of following a rule exactly as written.
Your quoted paragraph was from questions of back in the olden days when at a contest the players came with "That is not how we did it," or "...is how we did it" at XXX contest last year." Today contest fliers are fairly well informed of their chosen events. It's the Fly-In fliers that are not used to disciplined flight controls.
If I run a RB contest, any deviations from RB rules will be noted in the sanction application and on the advertisement hand-outs. NO deviations will be made at the event UNLESS 100% of the pilots so vote at the Pilot Briefing. If 1 entrant objects to any change, then as previously written will be the go-code.
Your first message is complied with. A message for you JR is highlighted in my FIRST paragraph above.
CONTEST DIRECTORS
A “CONTEST DIRECTOR” is a title bestowed on a selected individual that is already a member of AMA and has been for a minimum of three consecutive years. The Contest Director has the authority to administrate and supervise AMA Sanctioned Events under those procedures and guidelines as prescribed by the AMA Executive Council. The Contest Director acts as a representative for AMA in the administration of sanctioned events. There is a high level of responsibility as a result of this status. The concerns of properly applying the rules, maintaining fairness, and providing high levels of safety in connection with the event are basic. In acting as the Academy’s representative, the CD is protected by Insurance and, if necessary, legal support. It should be noted, however, that such protection requires that the task be done in a competent manner.
A “CONTEST DIRECTOR” is a title bestowed on a selected individual that is already a member of AMA and has been for a minimum of three consecutive years. The Contest Director has the authority to administrate and supervise AMA Sanctioned Events under those procedures and guidelines as prescribed by the AMA Executive Council. The Contest Director acts as a representative for AMA in the administration of sanctioned events. There is a high level of responsibility as a result of this status. The concerns of properly applying the rules, maintaining fairness, and providing high levels of safety in connection with the event are basic. In acting as the Academy’s representative, the CD is protected by Insurance and, if necessary, legal support. It should be noted, however, that such protection requires that the task be done in a competent manner.
I was a professional aviator for 41 years. I have 42 years AMA CD experience. If I can live outside the cockpit, and I do so very well, I can also live without these childish nit-picking games from a bunch of pencil-pushers that NEVER ADDRESS their own RESPONSIBILITIES. So be it!
edited for 'quote' and add an h.
03-16-2005, 10:48 PM
#90
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
Horrace
Let me approach it this way. A serious question. If you, as a CD, on the date of a sanction, after the advertised hours, have refused to take action as a CD to prevent unsafe actions by a pilot or pilots, and an injury occurs, and you are sued for your inaction, would you expect the AMA to defend and insure you?
Let me approach it this way. A serious question. If you, as a CD, on the date of a sanction, after the advertised hours, have refused to take action as a CD to prevent unsafe actions by a pilot or pilots, and an injury occurs, and you are sued for your inaction, would you expect the AMA to defend and insure you?
03-16-2005, 11:33 PM
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RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
ORIGINAL: J_R
Following from General Section of Competition Rules. Information Please hat now off.
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
JR-
If you would be so kind, please cite a paragraph in one of those documents you refered me to that answers just one of my questions. As a CD that is responsible for knowing and understanding what is required for a sanction, I trust that it won't trouble you very much to find it.
BTW, what is an AMA sanction? I recall the question came up at an EC meeting when some among them wanted to pull the sanction from an event sponsored by Frank Tiano in FL, and nobody present at the EC meeting knew. Have they figured it out since?
Abel
JR-
If you would be so kind, please cite a paragraph in one of those documents you refered me to that answers just one of my questions. As a CD that is responsible for knowing and understanding what is required for a sanction, I trust that it won't trouble you very much to find it.
BTW, what is an AMA sanction? I recall the question came up at an EC meeting when some among them wanted to pull the sanction from an event sponsored by Frank Tiano in FL, and nobody present at the EC meeting knew. Have they figured it out since?
Abel
And the hat won't be on again, I expect. You thought I wouldn't know you tried to send me on a snipe hunt. And I thought you had a low opinion of CDs.
AMA SANCTIONED EVENTS
AMA sanctions contests, fly for fun meets,
demonstrations, and other flying events. An AMA sanction
means that the activity is endorsed by the Academy, is
supervised by an AMA Contest Director (CD), is intended
for AMA members only, and that the dates are protected
from competing AMA activities in the vicinity.
Overall, the AMA Executive Council is responsible to
correct the deficiencies in the AMA Contest Director
program. The changes should be aimed at protecting AMA
against potential liability, while maintaining and motivating
AMA members to perform the volunteer service of
Contest Director. Where the position is abused, AMA
needs to be ready to act fairly, yet remove the CD
designation, if such be warranted
Abel
03-16-2005, 11:35 PM
#92
RE: AMA sanctions and the need for CD responsibility
JR, as I have said before, I now only CD on Jetero RC Club's facility. Your theoretical questions are just so much STEER sh_t.
Safety Coordinator or NOT, Contest Director or NOT, I have 250,000 yankee dollars sunk into this facility. I tolerate NO sheep herder activity ( flocking up!!) on this site. Our constitution charges each member with enforcing the rules. I take that charge seriously.
So your problem is not my problem. If push comes to shove with bad guys, I'm within less than an arm's length of strong persuasion which I feel will maintain the balance.
As an AMA member: "AMA Liability Protection applies to bodily injury or property damage caused by an AMA member." Then yes I expect AMA to cover that much. 2.5 mill per incident, 5 mil per site. If not then AMA ain't the government. AMA CAN BE SUED. Let the sharks fight it out for their share. [>:]
So JR, I've told you and told you how I will act. If it ain't good 'nuff for your feeders, just too bad. Hey I'm getting sleepy rather earlier than usual tonight. Maybe I slept too late this AM. You decode that message??
Safety Coordinator or NOT, Contest Director or NOT, I have 250,000 yankee dollars sunk into this facility. I tolerate NO sheep herder activity ( flocking up!!) on this site. Our constitution charges each member with enforcing the rules. I take that charge seriously.
So your problem is not my problem. If push comes to shove with bad guys, I'm within less than an arm's length of strong persuasion which I feel will maintain the balance.
As an AMA member: "AMA Liability Protection applies to bodily injury or property damage caused by an AMA member." Then yes I expect AMA to cover that much. 2.5 mill per incident, 5 mil per site. If not then AMA ain't the government. AMA CAN BE SUED. Let the sharks fight it out for their share. [>:]
So JR, I've told you and told you how I will act. If it ain't good 'nuff for your feeders, just too bad. Hey I'm getting sleepy rather earlier than usual tonight. Maybe I slept too late this AM. You decode that message??
