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A big property or personal injury accident could do us in
27.93%
Any reasonably foreseeable accident could be withstood by the hobby
72.07%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

Could one accident ruin the hobby?

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Old 03-17-2005, 04:21 PM
  #1  
mr_matt
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Default Could one accident ruin the hobby?

Hi guys,

I could not help but notice over the last few years that many people seem to base some of there positions here on a certain postulate, namely something along the lines of "one really bad accident and we are all done", or "one stupid act and the AMA is history" or "we are one big accident from having government regulation".

Without coloring the responses, I would like to know your thoughts, via anonymous poll.

Thanks,

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Old 03-17-2005, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

I think you should expand the pole to something like:
A. Could hurt an individuals reputation
b: Could ruin a club
c: Could cause increased government regulation

etc.

I think it is not as simple as what you ask. Any accident viewed as a threat could impose government regulation, but obviously would not kill the hobby. An accident where a plane out of control kills a driver on the highway could easily kill a club, not the hobby.
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Old 03-17-2005, 04:47 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

Well when I was president of the Top Geek nuclear physics society we did have an incident where too many members brought their plutonium collections to our biweekly meeting.
Things were going well until we had one yahoo come speeding into the parking lot late for the meeting. The brakes failed on his old VW and the resulting collision between the VW, the building wall and the plutonium collection on the table caused a critical mass event wiping out the membership and the entire area for a 25 mile radius.
I escaped only for the fact that I had drawn the short straw and was on the beer run while the pizza was being delivered. We were in a dry county so I was outside the blast radius in the neighboring county when it all went down.
The government got involved after that checking the radiation level of the water in what is now known as Crater Lake. The water ski and beer cooler testing society have some sort of agreement to use the site but I don't know what it is. It just brings back too many painful memories of all the good times we had before the brakes failed.[]


ORIGINAL: mr_matt

Hi guys,

I could not help but notice over the last few years that many people seem to base some of there positions here on a certain postulate, namely something along the lines of "one really bad accident and we are all done", or "one stupid act and the AMA is history" or "we are one big accident from having government regulation".

Without coloring the responses, I would like to know your thoughts, via anonymous poll.

Thanks,

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Old 03-17-2005, 04:48 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

Good comment, thanks. I am trying to keep it to an "either/or" type question.

Can you think of a better worded "either/or" question?

Thanks.
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Old 03-17-2005, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

Thank you, sometimes a good laugh helps put it all in perspective!
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Old 03-17-2005, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?


I don't believe that a single incident could destroy the ENTIRE hobby in the USA, but given suitable political agendas, it could effectively wipe out a specific segment of the hobby... turbines, models over (say) 30% scale, pylon racers, or even free-flighters could potentially be decimated if the powers that be chose to use a really serious accident to push their private agendas against a specific group.

Note that by "effectively wipe out" I mean either that the AMA could ban that segment, or that they could impose such draconian measures as to kill off most interest in that segment.

Gordon
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Old 03-17-2005, 06:07 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

One major crash could start a chain reaction, and no one can tell where the end will be, or the out come[&o]
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Old 03-17-2005, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

NO matter where you are and what you are doing THE "LEGAL THEIVES" are out there waiting to jump at any excuse. they have ruined the legal ands social system. try to stay way away from them. dick
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Old 03-17-2005, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

Nothing will happen if we all used 'common sense'.....but that isn't likely

Jerry
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Old 03-17-2005, 08:48 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

I agree with Gordon that the AMA could put severe controls on the "offending" part of our hobby that was the cause of a serious accident. But these controls will never be implemented until something serious does happen. Wouldn't it make more sense to try and nip it in the bud, so to speak, before that particular part of the hobby gets to such a dangerous level?

JC
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Old 03-17-2005, 09:12 PM
  #11  
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?


ORIGINAL: mr_matt

Hi guys,

I could not help but notice over the last few years that many people seem to base some of there positions here on a certain postulate, namely something along the lines of "one really bad accident and we are all done", or "one stupid act and the AMA is history" or "we are one big accident from having government regulation".

Without coloring the responses, I would like to know your thoughts, via anonymous poll.

Thanks,

If I remember the history of commercial aviation correctly, there were visionaries who foresaw a public with a perception of aviation as a safe, comfortable method of transportation. They set out to promote aviation and make aviation safe for fliers and passengers. Today, mile for mile, I understand it's safer to fly than drive.

What if, instead of trying to predict how much carnage the public will accept, some RC visionaries set out to promote RC aviation safety and create a record of safe, comfortable entertainment for hobbyists and the public?

Just a thought.
Dave Olson
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Old 03-17-2005, 09:33 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

ORIGINAL: Scar


If I remember the history of commercial aviation correctly, there were visionaries who foresaw a public with a perception of aviation as a safe, comfortable method of transportation. They set out to promote aviation and make aviation safe for fliers and passengers. Today, mile for mile, I understand it's safer to fly than drive.

What if, instead of trying to predict how much carnage the public will accept, some RC visionaries set out to promote RC aviation safety and create a record of safe, comfortable entertainment for hobbyists and the public?

Just a thought.
Dave Olson
Keep in mind the FAR's (Federal aviation regulations) are nicknamed the "Bloodbook" When an accident happends, rules are made. Is that how we want to function?
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Old 03-17-2005, 09:56 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

Just crawling out of bed in the morning carries risk. Just about anything you do in life has a certain amount of risk involved. Its when an activity or hobby is labeled as "High Risk" or "Unsafe" is when you will see stiff regulations put into place that try to detur people from participating in such activities or hobbies. This is why good Flying Clubs with good leadership, and organizations like AMA that promote safety, and awareness will keep the dreaded label of "unsafe" off our Hobby. Accidents will hapen, and people on occasion do get hurt or even killed, and one accident or death is to many, but when you live in a free society you have to be able accept a certain amount of risk in just about everything whether it be Driving in a demo derby, skydiving, or just walking across the street. Flying R/C Planes is a fun and safe hobby that does carry some risk if safe practices are not followed, but if everyone does there part to promote safety awareness then the Hobby should be able to absorb some hits from the result of lawsuits, damages, etc. I do think manufacturers also do a pretty fair job of promoting the idea of using instructors or finding a Club in the literature that comes with most Planes. I also believe that it is always smart to incourage new Flyers posting on RCU to find someone, or join a Club to teach them not only how to fly, but to find someone to teach them the way to fly safely, and about proper safety precautions to take before you fly. We all have a responsibillity to do our part to promote safety!
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:07 AM
  #14  
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

I'm with Gordon... I can see how a serious accident could hurt part of the hobby. A turbine jet goes in, sets fire to a patch of grass near a chemical plant or whatnot, and the next day's headlines run: "Flying firebomb strikes: you could be next!". You can be sure that there will at the very least be some new rules and regulations for Jet flyers after that.

On the other hand, look at things like car rallys. Quite often a car goes off track and plows through the spectators lining the road. People have been killed... yet there are still no bans on rallys or even rules about how close the spectators can be. Politicians aren't always the rule-crazy zealots that they appear to be, and they're often willing to take common sense into consideration, separating the 'bad luck' accidents from the mishaps that can be prevented with rules.
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:40 AM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

I'll have to say no. The reason is that several really big accidents have happened already.

There was the trainer plane in AZ that died from orientation lose, the person that died from the helicopter accident and the person that suffered serious damage from a GS plane that lost radio control. DB doesn't have it in so much for each of these.

I think a turbine though that goes in and causes a fire that looks a little hazardous will bring down the full wrath of the ama, not because of the media faa etc but because DB has been looking for any excuse to reduce the little freedom the turbine community has!!!
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:52 AM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

It's all about the right publicity though. Clinton had girfriends for years, everone in Arkansa knew that. It just took the wrong one at the wrong place and wrong time to cause a stir.
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:33 AM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

My fear is that some terrorist uses an rc aircraft to drop some biological crud over a populated area it could be a small trainer dropping a ballon filled with anthrax or something aver a stadium or any other big crowd. I think rc aircraft would then be imidiatly grouded like what happened after 9-11 with the comercial airlines. only this time there would not be that much presure for them to lift the grounding. It is scarry to think about all they would need is a wireless camera set up and they could be 1/4 mile away from the attack site.
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:05 AM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

first of all, I know they already know that but I wouldn't remind anyone of that. Although, I think of several reasons why that just wouldn't be easy to do. I can still think of 100 things they can do that have nothing to do with aviation which would be easier and infinantly more devastating, although I would never post those 100 things in open forum. But your are right, the public perception of what could happen is more of a risk then what they could actually accomplish.
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Old 03-18-2005, 12:27 PM
  #19  
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

Mr. Matt:

Answered your poll, "can survive" however on second thought I will interject one small item simply as food for thought.

RC Models can be used for all sorts of bad-guy activities. If something in that realm should happen, then the Congress just may well do something big against the sport.

AMA has only some 150,000 members spread all over the country. While AMA membership is a small number compared to the population that actually dribbles in model aviation, it is the recognized number. Therefore the bureaucrats could get their names plastered over all the sensation-seeking news media as the saviour of the world by prohibiting the tools of the trade of the bad guys. 150,000 voters over the country are a small price to pay for the millions of voters that would agree that his/HER representative saved the world for the children.

It would not be the "accident/incident" but the system of news and bureaucrat opportunities (photo ops) that will/could inflict mortal damage on the sport by government as is actually happening on many local levels this very time frame.

Maybe that is another reason that all those that participate in this sport should try to increase that recognized number of AMA members and then vote in an EC that has promotion and building up the sport/hobby for national recognition as a worthwhile activity as their primary AMA objective.
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Old 03-18-2005, 04:10 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

Good luck at that.

The biggest source of "new blood" to bolster the AMA's numbers, the park fliers, are not going to buy in. Catchy slogans ("Continue the FUN???"), tiered rates, naked women, stuffed animal giveaways, stickers, T-shirts... Nothing's going to get a signifigant number of them to jump on the AMA bandwagon. What do you need the AMA for when you can skulk in the shadows and fly when nobody's looking? What do you need the AMA for when you can just move on to the next open spot after the cops run you off the local schoolyard?

I dare say that most of the people that "NEED" the benefits AMA offers ARE in the AMA already, and most of them are only in the AMA because they were "forced" into it by their club, which they only belong to because the club "forced" them to join in order to use the club's field.

First things first: Turn around this attitude of "joined under protest." Again, good luck. You're trying to sell politics, ideals, not tangible goods.
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Old 03-18-2005, 05:02 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

Think Safety!
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

Interesting topic, and one I think that bears some serious discussion. Todays world , at least here in the US, is a highly litiginous society; people will sue at the drop of a hat, whether they have a case or not, if they feel they might get a buck or two or a pile of publicity out of it, and it's hard to predict what event might happen in our hobby that would be a "landmark case" that would start the ball rolling to kill the hobby or put a serious damper (regulation) on it.

The choices in the poll need some restatement, I think. A "reasonably forseeable accident", in my opinion, is a contradiction in terms. If you can reasonably forsee an event, it can't be an accident, because you should also be able to anticipate the outcome and take measures to control the outcome. Whatever occurs that is negative is then nothing more than a careless and negligent act, and yeah, I think that could hurt the hobby, if not on the whole, at least locally. I don't think it would kill our hobby if something dire happened; when you look at all the high-risk sports (car / boat / motorcycle / airplane racing, sky diving, bungee jumping (?), etc,) you can always think of something that has happened to kill or maim spectators as well as participants, but those sports continue, and in some cases, have grown, as a result of what has come out of rule changes and increased regulation. I think where you are has a lot to do with what happens. I found the post from the gent in the Netherlands quite interesting regarding rally racing, which has no equivalent counterpart in the US. I've watched it on satellite, and am amazed at how the spectators are only inches from disaster as these cars come by sideways, swerving and spinning, and it continues unchanged even though there have been many deaths from crashes and out-of-control cars slamming into the crowds on the side of the course. But let one NASCAR or Indy crash sling a tire or piece of a car into the stands, and the next race has two more layers of fence or guard rail between the cars and crowd. But some guy doesn't check his rubber bands, and jumps off New River Gorge Bridge and becomes a mush pile on the riverbank, hey, they still hold the event next year; in the same vein, when the bungee fails at an amusement park, in some cases the "ride" gets closed.

While I am in favor of no more regulation than necessary to ensure safety (and as I say that, even I am asking "what defines Necessary?"), I also see that some people, regardless of what they're doing, need to be protected from themselves, and by extension of that thought, then everybody else needs protection from them, too. I think the poll should include " highly unlikely and unforseeable, but possible, events. THOSE you might could call "accidents".
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:46 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

i guess i am not alowed to have an opinion on this topic. I guess terrorisim is now a forbiden topic.
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:19 PM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

No one believes it can happen to us Then it is to late. Look in to the sky and see nothing flying then say WHAT HAPPENED.
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Old 03-20-2005, 09:17 AM
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Default RE: Could one accident ruin the hobby?

You want the honest truth...THERES NO WAY THEY COULD STOP US.

Even if some big event happened, and the AMA was done away with and the government banned sales of RC stuff...etc.

By god, I'd still be building and flying my own RC planes. I have tons of RC models, I'd still fly them even without the AMA. I have planes and heli's that can be flown indoors. Id still fly them. I drive off in the woods somewhere, cut down a large enough area to fly, and have a clandestine RC airfield. Id be in my shop, with a milling machine making bootleg engines. They'll NEVER stop me.
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