dennis1943

My Feedback: (12)

did i read wrong??????? in the ama magazine i read that the ama is only going to alow the cd's a six month membership credit, what is this coming to we bust our tailfeathers doing two or more events every year and the dues go up , what is going to happen next, if this is true cd's rise up and let the ama cd their on contest and fly-ins, i feel that this constitues abuse.

Dennis W. Martin Sr.
AMA 7030-CD
RCO moderator
RCU moderator
[email protected]

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

That's pretty nasty.
If you want to do something like run a contest, you do it because your heart is in the right place. If you are doing it just to save $48 a year in AMA dues, that's pretty sad.

fliers1

I can't understand it. What I mean is that so many seem miffed that AMA dues are going up and CD's are only going to get a 6 month membership, why then not take advantage of AMA's Sign 3 and Fly Free Ambassador membership program. It shouldn't be hard at all to sign up 3 new members per year.

As long as AMA has the program, I don't think I will have to pay for AMA memership ever again. Right now, I signed up enough adult members so that I won't have to pay AMA dues for at least 4 years.

Take care,
Clarence C. Ragland
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

Argue for your limitations and sure enough they will be yours.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Well done, Clarence. Well done.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Please don't take this the wrong way - I don't wish to demean your desire to be compensated for hard work performed, but rather to explain why that AMA decision is no big deal to some of us...

I've been a CD for many years, run lots of events, and am now also a Turbine sign-off CD (which I find to be more time consuming than my regular CD duties) ... and I have never once taken any AMA credit at all.

I don't do the job for the AMA credits, or for recognition, or anything else like that - I do it because I think it needs to be done, and because the club / AMA / JPO / whoever asked me to help out. I've benefitted a lot, over the years, from the free help that others have given unstintingly, so this is just a kind of pay-back.

YMMV, which is perfectly ok ;-)

Gordon

Low Wing

My Feedback: (1)

48 bucks a year is less than a dollar a week...Clarence, I'm glad you are a great ama sales guy...but you can't sell a stick of gum at our field...A bunch of tight wads who jump in the garbage can every time ya throw a prop away...I think that's the problem with this ama subject, all the tight wads who don't even have it...I bet we got 20 at our field...No ama or park permit...As far as people getting a break on their due's more power to ya...I'm more than happy to pay less than a dollar a week...I'm a happy cow...This week anyway...

fliers1

Guess what? Dues are now $58 per year. My point was to get free dues by signing up 3 new members. I've found it's quite easy to sign up new members, if I can do it, I don't see why anyone else can't. That is why AMA created the program. They had projected that there would be somewheres in the neighborhood of over 200,000 members by now, but I think it's still around 150,000. Imagine if everyone signed up just one new member, there would be 300,000 on the books by now.

Take care,
Clarence C. Ragland
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

Tell me and I will forget.
Show me and I will remember:
Involve me and I will understand.

- Confucius

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Good posts, all. Low wing points out something...to some guys, ANY amount of money would be too much. Every club has its share of plain old tightwads!

Texas 3D

My Feedback: (16)

Why do some guys in this hobby always worry about dues and fees, but when entering a Hobby Shop or Website their wallets are wide open ? Hmmm.... I guess, if somebody is worried about paying $58 per year for an AMA membership, then they are definitely in the wrong hobby

dennis1943

My Feedback: (12)

well guess what i guess know when i am out numbered, thank you to all who responded to this forum, i will leave this forum till wed. and then i will delete it so godspeed and good wishes to all,
sorry but my feelings have not changed, i am retired and disabeled and live on a fixed encome and money does mean something to me.

thanks to all and
gods best wishes.

DENNIS W. MARTIN SR.
ama7030-cd

Low Wing

My Feedback: (1)

Mr. Wilson...I can completely understand watching your spending...That is a smart thing and I commend you...The people I'm referring to have the money to spend and complain about everything...You Sir' are not by any means subject to my worthless opinion...I was just making the point that 48/58 bucks was a fair price in my mind...God speed to you my friend and happy flying...

SDCrashmaster

Don't leave the forum just because others are in disagreement with you...
What's that all about? If you're retired, that means you're far too old to be acting that way! Heck, if I bailed everytime I was disagreed with, I'd have been divorced many times over by n...oh wait...I have been. Never mind.

Hossfly

AMA dues had to at sometime go up. After all, everything else does.
The current AMA EC has been after Contest Directors for some time. After all the CD enjoys a certain area of supremacy that few others have the opportunity to do. On his Contest Days he, the CD, reigns supreme. He can make decisions, run the entire show, and is the BIG BOSS.
As a retired airline captain, I remember the authority of a Captain as the best part of the job. Of course the weak ones shunned their authority while the strong ones not only used it wisely but for the safety of their craft, crew, and passengers.
The strong, proficient CD enjoys basically the same authority and the large responsibility that goes with such authority. Respective Management has problems with such underlings, as management cannot control the daily endeavors of either of the AC or the CD.
Some years ago, CDs after the first year, and doing the job correctly, were automatically designated LEADER MEMBERs. Then the wonderful Ex. Council robbed the CDs of that simple little reward.
Several years ago some EC members wanted the authority to punish any CD -- on the spot -- for some EC Member's perceived wrongdoing. As one that about 1980+/-, had initiated the first program to assist CDs with their responsibilities, I was offered a chance to work on that project. Of course my study threw all the problems and solutions right back into the EC's lap. Of course, as expected, my study was filed in the round circular file.
A definition of a CD has been formulated that bestows shame on the AMA for it's simple rhetoric and lack of actual definition. In no way does it define what a Contest Director really is.
Without researching, some 3-4 years ago the EC VOTED to rename Contest Directors "Event Directors", I notified D, Brown that a change in AMA Bylaws would be required for such action.
He agreed the motion was out of order. You will not find any mention of the repeal in the minutes of any successive meeting, but the change was never enacted.
I have CDed 2 to 4 events per year for many years. I get a *free* membership, but donate well over a $100.00 to AMA's programs each year.
Now, IMO, the reduction for free active CD memberships is a slap-in-the-face to those people that work so diligently to do AMA's Bylaws prescribed objectives of promoting model aviation and all the stated objectives referenced to model airplane competitions, plus recognition of leadership. Why must these persons so willing to promote the sport be so continuously harassed by the AMA EC?
It is not the money. The money is NOT a topic of discussion. It is totally a matter of principle and recognition for service performed.
I do NOT support that action as prescribed by the EC. As in government, the EC finds the numerically lesser group and picks on them, because the majority membership will not hold the EC accountable for unjustly domineering the smaller unit.


Horrace Cain
AMA 539 CD, Leader
Candidate, Executive Vice President, AMA
NOW is the HOUR to place "OUR" back before AMA -- "OUR AMA"

dennis1943

My Feedback: (12)

thank you sir you have found words that i was thinking but just could find i only hope that the ama will have a change of thought and repeal their plans to go with this.

again thank you

Dennia W. Martin Sr.
AMA 7030
member since 1959

Elwood

My Feedback: (2)

They could get more money in if they sold the mag to the public.

But would anybody want it?

RCPilot100

My Feedback: (4)

I am a CD and have been for years. Everyone in my club wanted to have AMA sanctioned events but no one wanted to go through the hassle of becoming a CD - so I did. So now I CD several events per year for several clubs that no one else is capable of doing (there are no other CDs) nor would want to if they were. I am not on a power trip - I hate doing it - having to make sure everyone flies in a safe manner - which means having to confront some idiots. If I do otherwise, I and the AMA are liable for problems that can occur. The clubs don't even say thank you nor offer to refund the $15.00 per sanction fee that I pay for. I am like most, the $15.00 is no big deal. The lack of a thank you sucks, but oh well, AMA used to say thank you with the free membership. Again, the $$ is not a big deal - the idea of someone appreciating the time I put in was. I CD'ed two events this year - helped at a third. Not anymore - next year I am flying and enjoying myself - why put up with the BS associated with being a CD when no one appreciates it. Just my $0.02 worth.

Dan

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

How many times will you be slapped in the face? Nobody in The clubs care, usually I pay the sanction fees myself as well as the additional insurance ryder for off site events (i.e. airshows) and still the involved clubs couldn,t give a hoot. And now this slap direct from the AMA, Well I will happily pay my dues from now on with no complaint but never agine go through that stress for nothing and I am not talking money.

John

Dennis, please don,t delete this thread. Many folks may not understand what is going on or perhaps don,t care but may when their events are canceled.

dennis1943

My Feedback: (12)

THANK YOU STAND UP AND CALL YOUR DISTRIC REPS I AM GOING TO THERE IS SECURITY IN NUMBERS,

GOD BLESS YOU ALL,

DENNIS W. MARTIN SR.

AMA7030

mscic-RCU

My Feedback: (6)

At least when you walk into a hobby shop with your wallet open, you do walk out with something; something that you chose to buy. If you want to compare the AMA to a hobby shop, that would be like the AMA putting a cover charge at the door to give you the privilege to buy something. Pretty soon they will require a PFL (personal flying license) just so you can buy your AMA card.

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

Come on, who here really CD's a contest/event just for the free AMA? Anyone willing to admit that? If that is truly your motive then you shouldn't be a CD. The AMA obviously put the CD program into effect to encourage members to organize contests. I think the AMA has realized that the payoff is small and that very few contests/events would fold if they didn't pay the CDs. In other words, any contest/event worth having will go on even if the CDs are not paid, so why pay the CDs if you don't have to. You may not like it but it is a good business decision... why pay for something you can get for free?

What I want to know is why should the AMA pay CDs to host a contest/event in the first place? Where is the payoff for the AMA? I'm a club officer and I do twice the work of ANY CD at my club and I don't get my AMA dues paid... not one red cent, and that's fine with me. I do the work for the club without monetary compensation becasue I LOVE THIS HOBBY. I think if CDs had never been paid in the past you wouldn't hear very much moaning about how CDs should be paid. What would you think if a club officer started thread about how he wants to resign becase the AMA won't pay him, slap in the face, all that?

MSCCI: Bad analogy, makes no sense. What's the cover charge? Dues? Then what is the other stuff I want to buy from the AMA? Sanctions? I just don't get it.

JohnB: If nobody in the club cares about the contest/event, then it should be obvious there is no demand for that event. Either stir up interest or stop the event. Why should the AMA pay anyone to host a event that no one is interested in?

RCPilot: I for one appreciate what our club CDs do. Running an event is not really hard, but it isn't a walk in the park either. Our club always pays the sanction fees. If their isn't enough support in the club to pass the paying of the sanction fee then there is no contest/event. On that, I can only remember one planned event that didn't get approved by the club.

Hoss: You mention promoting the hobby... to who? Other AMA members? How many contests are actually promoted to the general public? How about TV or newspaper coverage? I think the point the AMA is making is that CDs do not typically promote model aviation to anyone other than existing AMA members so why does the AMA need to encourage (compensate) them for that?

Hammbone2

And just maybe had the AMA held back on there spending (building a new adminastration building,,Flying site,Muisem,so on ect ,ect Dues wouldnt be going up

Hossfly

Hoss: You mention promoting the hobby... to who? Other AMA members? How many contests are actually promoted to the general public? How about TV or newspaper coverage? I think the point the AMA is making is that CDs do not typically promote model aviation to anyone other than existing AMA members so why does the AMA need to encourage (compensate) them for that? [/B][/QUOTE]

Whatever contests/events that you attend certainly differ from those that I take part in.
You should have been at Bomber Field, near Houston last week. 3 days of heavy activity with 4 to 5 THOUSAND spectators on each Sat. and Sun. They came because of both area TV and newspaper coverage.
We get many spectators because of event coverage in local newspapers. Many of our new members are signed up at an event where the CD can sell instant AMA memberships.
PROMOTING the HOBBY also includes having events that create new and REnewed interests within the current memberships. This promotes through maintaining interests, creating a market for products, and therefore establishing a stronger basis for the economic well-being of the entire hobby spectrum.
Your picture shows an IMAC machine. Look what CDs have done with this event and look how many people fly 300 somethings, yet never will enter an IMAC event. Without those CDs doing their thing, the interest would not be there.
Events are run by CDs and may not be a contest. IMAA for example. Look at RC Combat: Contests created that growth.
You ask how CDs promote, well my man, open thine eyes and SEE. Club officers do work hard. I've certainly been there and done that, including being President while the Club bought property and built a first class flying facility.
Been there done that for some 40 years.
A Contest Director also does a lot of work, especially if he is a good or even average one. I have trained about 6 in the past 5 years. They DON"T do it for the money. How many AMAers refuse the responsibility? A bunch. How many will not accept a club officer position?
A bunch.
The Club Officer is a function of the Club, yet the CD is a function of the AMA.
The active CD's free membership is small potatoes when compared to the money spent flying the AMA officers and NATs workers all over the country. The CD definitely does a job that promotes the hobby both to the current members and the outside wanna'bees.
Thanks for bringing up such a topic.

Horrace Cain
AMA 539, CD and Leader

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

Hoss: The event you mention in Texas sounds wonderful. I have been to some major events this year (~100 pilots) that get local and/or national coverage... shoot, I even was interviewed by the press at an event I attended two weeks ago. Large events are wonderful, but they are atypical. The average event/contest I've been to are small (30 pilots or less.) There is nothing wrong with small. There are also rarely any spectators or press. Maybe the CD didn't promote it to the public, whatever, the net result is that the event/contest is mostly self serving. Again, there is nothing wrong with a self serving contest. I agree that we need to continuously foster desire within our own ranks. I have spent the greater part of last year pushing pattern, IMAC and pattern in my area by traveling to other events to push ours, writing stuff for the newsletter, etc.

Here's how I see it Hoss, CDs of major events, like what you mentioned at Bomber Field, I would have to say deserve free AMA and more. Anyone that pulls off a AMA event with 5K spectators probably deserves a free lifetime membership. However, I almost gotta believe that most sanctioned events are small. The AMA claims its average club membership is about 30 members. My club has about 150 members and our events are typically in the 10 to 20 pilot range depending upon the event (open, i.e. any AMA legal plane fun flys get upto about 40 pilots.) Is it really worth $58 to the AMA to encourage a CD to host an event for 10-20 pilots? I'd say no. How about the proposed and passed $29 for a 10-20 pilot event? Mmmmm, I'd still say no. Would the event still be run even if the CD wasn't paid... I'd say yes.

bob1931

To Monkey Boy
Your last statement in your answer to hoss tells me what kind of thinker you are Don't compensate workers they will do it anyway

Dave Bowles

My Feedback: (7)

If I had to make a guess as to why this Benefit was cut back by AMA it is probably because of a large number of Members that apply as CDs , get the Benefit , and then don't do anything for it !! . I would check your clubs and see if you have any folks who have been getting this Perk and doing nothing for it. I think there have been many FREELOADERS abusing this . Unfortunately as with many things it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the barrel, I don't believe AMA would consider this kind of thing if there wasn't a significant amount of revenue involved. I for one CD and assist another CD in 2 or more events a year, I have never Used this Benefit, I do it for the good of the CLUB, and a Thank You will do just fine.

I also believe their are VPs and office members at the AMA who are milking their benefits as well. Nothing like taking a little Out of Town trip, stop off at one of the local fields in the town you are visiting and letting AMA flip some of the BILL.