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Does AMA have a real future?

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Old 03-24-2005, 10:42 PM
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Default Does AMA have a real future?

On this forum there have been all kinds of discussions about AMA ups and downs, and many topics around, about, cussin' and discussin' any and all AMA related topics with the Park Flier issue getting considerable attention.

In the '70s I owned a hobby shop, Aero Sports, Inc. on Northwest Highway in Mt. Prospect, Il. I closed that shop due to a number of reasons, (mostly because I was flying for UAL, and commuting to fly with the AF Reserve in Pittsburgh). I had too little time to do my lazy things.
I maintained a "dealership" with a couple distributors that are also now "gone west" all gobbled up by GP and Horizon. For sometime I got Dealer's rights at some trade-shows. Sometime in the late '80s I remember being sent a questionnaire from the Hobby Industry Association. I filled out the regular questions, maybe fudging my "annual business" a bit and then there was a write-in. It was to the effect of 'What would you suggest to really build up the model airplane hobby?' I remember answering with quite a few statements which paraphrased were that the HIA should develop a small model airplane, power system of very quiet proportions, and a small radio system that could be flown at the school yards by father-son or small boys.
While I never heard about that idea, I now wonder if I actually planted a seed in someone's brain-storming. Oh yes, I am certain they were flooded with the same idea from many in one way or another.[:-]

Now, let's do some more thinking. IN MY OPINION, our beloved Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA), in its search for more control over individuals and clubs, with its search for a more profitable (for whom?) insurance package, and a pursuit of developing a publication far beyond the levels so required by the AMA's basic purposes, has greatly neglected the Bylaws requirements reference to promoting model aviation in its entirety. This neglect by AMA, has reduced the ability of the Model Airplane Clubs to function as serious groups engaged in a most scientific, pleasurable, educational, and recreational activity. This reduction of the Clubs' ability to function as described, is extremely harmful to those Clubs in their efforts to locate, acquire, and develop those potential flying sites. Without a flying site, the club simply cannot function.

Again in my opinion, the popularity of the so called Park Fliers does evidence that there is still that desire within the person to experiment with that age-old desire to simply FLY! Therefore the problem that really exists is the lack of flying facilities that people can get to and use with reasonable effort whenever there is some small amount of time to use. Of course a facility for 40-percenters cannot be in the heart of each housing development, however there are many possibilities for model aviation in some form that have yet to be explored.

In my opinion the AMA has been derelict in their primary responsibility. I don't mean just token attention, and collections of case histories, but deep and heavy promotion of the sport/hobby through the free media available. I mean establishing a base for the Clubs to be recognized when they approach those with the ability to provide flying facilities.

I mean reducing the in-house magazine operation to a smaller profitable item that has promotion of the AMA and model aviation as a primary objective, not simply a member-funded bureaucracy of its own. I want AMA's magazine to NOT be a competitor with the other modeling media. I want to see all the other magazines supporting AMA and taking the AMA vision outside the choir to all their readers. AMA's MA would exist simply to keep the choir in tune.

I mean providing simply a member liability secondary insurance program along with the primary site-owner insurance, all just a lean mean liability program. I don't mean throwing away more member $$ in the chasing of captive insurance companies that promise some rainbow's end while the real pot of gold sets in the paid-up membership. Any insurance program has some restrictions, but AMA's need not be so restricted that even those on staff have little idea how it works. It definitely does not need such a restriction list that we now must endure.

Now THINK again about this. You married guys may think of yourself as the HEAD of household. However little 'wifey' has always been the neck and can turn you whichever direction she so chooses, plus she usually controls the budget. In big business, most corporate directions are a result of the chief "BEAN-COUNTERS" those that control the money. That is why AMA really needs a new Executive Vice President, known as the Chief Financial Officer (CFO)
AMA needs a CFO that knows where the REAL RETURNS ON INVESTMENT ARE. The real returns are on obtaining MORE NEW MEMBERS as well as retaining the ones we have. 50 grand in a CD scheme, a couple hundred grand in stock investments are peanuts when talking about the loss of 5000 members ($290,000.00) a loss which exceeds the *grandiose* scheme forecasts now employed by AMA . Retaining that 5000 plus adding another 5000 is 10,000 members worth $580,000. Now better that the next year with a 5% (estimated 7750) increase and you have $449,500 providing a 2nd year of over a million Yankee Dollars to the better. MEMBERSHIP is the answer, not just counting the pencils and paper-clips, plus pulling in a tight self-supporting bureaucracy.

So Gents, if you want real flying site support, recognition, less rules/restrictions, an informative magazine, yet support from all the model aviation media and complete knowledge where your AMA $$ go, then nominate and elect a new EVP (CFO) that will do his utmost to provide such. It's the purse strings that determines the direction the head turns. I have both the ability and determination to redirect AMA from its current downsliding course.

Please check the nomination procedures, March. '05 issue, Model Aviation, Page 149.

I'm at your service. I can't get there if YOU don't write the tickets.

Edited: punctuation
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

OH Boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hossfly,
I'm at your service. I can't get there if YOU don't write the tickets
My first question...

Are you going to get "us there" without alienating 3/4 of the membership
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:46 AM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

It always seems to be that anyone who actually has some proactive plans will alienate a lot of folks. Why that is, I have no idea. So many like to complain and place blame, but too few have any real idea of what it takes to truely make significant improvements.

Take care,
CCR

ORIGINAL: Crashem

OH Boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hossfly,
I'm at your service. I can't get there if YOU don't write the tickets
My first question...

Are you going to get "us there" without alienating 3/4 of the membership
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:50 AM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

Fliers1,

Did you read some of hossfly's post last time he was running for office. I did and while I liked some of his ideas the manner in which they were delivered left much to be desired
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:05 AM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

No doubt Hoss is outspoken, but it seems that he is extremely knowledgable of what he's talking about. Also, it's obvious that something drastic needs to be done and ASAP. I for one would not hesitate to vote for him for anything. As they say, the screaky wheel gets oiled first.

Ironically, there seems to be a lot of animosity towards Mr. Maintain the status quo DB, yet has a enough people voting for him to keep him in office and it appears that he will be there for quite a while. This doesn't bode well for the very shaky future of our great hobby/sport, AMA included.

Take care,
CCR
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

fliers1,

knowledgable or not. The delievery of said knowledge or message is as important if not more important then the knowledge or message itself.

If Hossfly can understand the significance of this and keep his tongue in check more people may actually listen to what he is saying rather then how he is saying it.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:40 AM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

Money, Money,$$$$$
When will AMA get back to the members not polishing brass at Muncie When a person starts a campian for an office it is always how to invest or spend the $$ That does not get Members it only discourages them and makes them wonder why and what the cover up is.
More attention needs to be focused on the every day flyer and not on the names that are used to so-called promote AMA we are the promoters and we are the ones that will make or break it [] To much attention is given to promoting the name not the hobby and what is and stands for[&o]
Yes and because you do not believe a statement it is not "Horse Feathers"
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

Money, Money,$$$$$
When will AMA get back to the members not polishing brass at Muncie When a person starts a campian for an office it is always how to invest or spend the $$ That does not get Members it only discourages them and makes them wonder why and what the cover up is.
More attention needs to be focused on the every day flyer and not on the names that are used to so-called promote AMA we are the promoters and we are the ones that will make or break it To much attention is given to promoting the name not the hobby and what is and stands for
Yes and because you do not believe a statement it is not "Horse Feathers"
I couldn't have asked for a better example to illustrate my message delivery point......... Thanks for the help Outlaw
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:09 AM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

Hossfly,

WOW! A real ray of hope! Now where did I put my Mar. MA?
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

We forget that we already TRIED Horrace and his great ideas. He was elected once, and did not finish his term. Ask around about why.
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

We forget that we already TRIED Horrace and his great ideas. He was elected once, and did not finish his term.
Care to fill in the gaps Hossfly????
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:33 PM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

ORIGINAL: Crashem

We forget that we already TRIED Horrace and his great ideas. He was elected once, and did not finish his term.
Care to fill in the gaps Hossfly????
Briefly: Easytiger leaves a lot of gaps. He says , "...we already tried Horrace..... I ask where does he get the "WE" stuff? ET is a New York resident. I was elected by the members of AMA Dist. VI, IL, IN, KY, and MO.
ET says "...was elected once..." Actually I was elected TWICE. THE SECOND TERM WAS BY WRITE-IN VOTE. Just because the nominating committee did not approve of my getting things done, MY CONSTITUENCY WAS SMART ENOUGH TO RECOGNIZE RESULTS.

In Nov. '81, I was able to obtain some moderate financing for the AMA Frequency Chairman to use, "At his discretion, with no receipts required, and no questions asked," to get the final release of the freqs. you now use, which were being held up by some lower bureaucrats. (Check the Nov. '81 EC minutes) Shortly after obtaining that release, the F.C. decided to 'retire' from that job. His action also made me stop and think about my part in that operation.
During that time, Fall of '81, I ran for EVP, and if plurality had been effective then --as now -- I would have moved into that slot. Unfortunately in the run-off, I did not win. That loss plus a very big down-slide at work created a situation where I could no longer accomplish a fair duty for those I represented. Something had to give. The AMA DVP was that something.
I was flying for UAL and I was a DC-8 First Officer. There was a large reduction in UAL's pilot force. In Jun. '81, I was surplussed from the DC-8, back to the 727 FO, then to the DC-10 2nd/O position and then in Feb. '82 back to DC-8 2/O. In 7 months while doing a LOT for AMA, I had to attend THREE 4-week UAL schools for requalification in different equipment. (Without computers back then it took time to communicate with the Clubs.) Besides being ready to sign off UAL, I had 3 kids in universities. I simply had to make a change. I did.

Therefore while Easytiger has a record of spouting history as he himself so writes it, and he will continue to do so, there will not be any shouting matches here from me. In addition if individuals need a lot more information, I then also have a need: To whom am I talking? [:-]

Edited to add a couple words.
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:46 PM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

Outlaw,

Well put. Let's see real issues, not dollars and cents. I am an Lifetime AMA member, so while I have a vested interest in it's future and care not about the price of yearly dues, I did not join AMA for the insurance, or even because seomone said I had to to be in 'their club'. I am a member because I love EVERY aspect of aviation - full scale and model. I have been around it all my life and hope that whenever it is I can no longer pass a flight physical - LONG TIME TO COME - that i can still move a couple of sticks around and marvel at the magic of flight. Everytime I hear a sound in the sky, I still look up! How many people spend their entire lives starring at the ground?

When are WE - as an organization and as individuals - going to go back to sharing that joy with those less fortunate than ourselves? That joy alone is worth the price of admission. Why don't we go back to prmoting it.

Family is the nucleus of a society. We have cut this one to the bone. Father, son, mother, daughter, and grandparents a like. This is a family hobby. It encompasses every sex, creed, and religion of our society. Neoghbors wouldn't complain and shut down our fields if they had an understanding of what we do - they wouldn't dare if they were 'one of us'.

The education and of ... Let's get back to that.
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?


ORIGINAL: Crashem

Money, Money,$$$$$
When will AMA get back to the members not polishing brass at Muncie When a person starts a campian for an office it is always how to invest or spend the $$ That does not get Members it only discourages them and makes them wonder why and what the cover up is.
More attention needs to be focused on the every day flyer and not on the names that are used to so-called promote AMA we are the promoters and we are the ones that will make or break it To much attention is given to promoting the name not the hobby and what is and stands for
Yes and because you do not believe a statement it is not "Horse Feathers"
I couldn't have asked for a better example to illustrate my message delivery point......... Thanks for the help Outlaw
Yeah, Hoss is aiming for the EVP slot, aka Chief Financial Officer. Now what in the heck does that have to do with money???

Abel
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:57 PM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

Yeah, Hoss is aiming for the EVP slot, aka Chief Financial Officer. Now what in the heck does that have to do with money???
Yeah Abele and maybe Outlaw can be the the AMA Spokesperson

Hossfly Thanks for posting your response to Easy Tigers comment. I was hoping you'd present your version of events rather then getting it 3rd or 4th hand.

I hope you take my comments seriously. When I first joined RCU I read many of your posts when you were running for AMA President and to be blunt It was the way inwhich you expressed you opinions on this forum that lead me to NOT vote for you even though I did agree with some of your positions. Especially concerning Paid flight instructors. I'll be reserving judgement this time around if you run again. Hopefully some of the rough edges will be taken care of. Good luck while I may have my doubts about your suitability for an Elected position. I have no doubt about your dedication to and love of this hobby
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:03 PM
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O Yea! a VIP
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

You might want to ask around about other people who were around back then, who served on the Council when Horrace was around, about his tenure and his attitudes and why he left. There is the World According to Horrace, and then there is the world the rest of us live in. Enough said.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

You might want to ask around about other people who were around back then, who served on the Council when Horrace was around, about his tenure and his attitudes and why he left. There is the World According to Horrace, and then there is the world the rest of us live in. Enough said.
Sounds like EASYTIGER is carrying a grudge.
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: Does AMA have a real future?

Actually, the whole THING is really about a long-standing grudge by Horrace against AMA, isin't it? Always has been.
How many other guys failed to finish their terms? Any others?
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:31 PM
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Always consider the source. Check out some of EASYTIGERs' recent "work" in the 1/2A forum to get a better understanding of what this guy usually brings to the table.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:40 PM
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ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

Actually, the whole THING is really about a long-standing grudge by Horrace against AMA, isin't it? Always has been.
How many other guys failed to finish their terms? Any others?
Much ado about nothing. Horrace is throwing his hat in the ring for a job that should not exist. The job description has been rewritten, tailored to the credentials of the incumbent as a last gasp for the GOB club. Need a CPA? Let your fingers do the walking...... What is needed is a VP position for an individual ready to step in for the prexy, as required. Of course that will not happen, as DB would not be 'indispensable' if there were a replacement standing by. He learned well from his old bud in D-5 about assuring job security.

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Old 03-25-2005, 10:51 PM
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ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

Actually, the whole THING is really about a long-standing grudge by Horrace against AMA, isin't it? Always has been.
How many other guys failed to finish their terms? Any others?

Easytiger:

I will accept your comparison of me as not like "other guys". When confronted by road blocks, I look for a way around those blocks. I don't follow very well. I have been known to cut my own trails. So I do move fast and get things done.

Would you please answer two questions for me as well as the audience here?

1. If I have such a "Grudge" against AMA -- notice I specified AMA, and not the administration thereof -- why am I always on the lists of contributors each year for donations well in excess of my dues, to say nothing of the $40,000.00 in appraised value real estate donation in Dec. 1984, and considerably over the $1500.00 Life Membership of last year? Why would I have forked out $250,000.00 to provide a field for a Club with a deed restriction that they must maintain 100% of the AMA Charter program especially as at the time "Sport Fliers" was alive and well.

2. If I am as bad as you say, why do you have such an indigestion over the fact that I did resign during my second term and got the "L" out of your way? I'm still waiting for at least a fifth of JD for doing you that favor. [8D]

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Old 03-25-2005, 11:18 PM
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"I will accept your comparison of me as not like "other guys". When confronted by road blocks, I look for a way around those blocks. I don't follow very well. I have been known to cut my own trails. So I do move fast and get things done."

Ah, the "benevolent dictatorship". The dictatator ALWAYS thinks he is benevolent and in the right.
Good thing AMA is a democracy. That's why they have the twelve EC members, and they vote on stuff and such. Evidently, you had a real problem with that.

Anyway...now you want to run again. This time for EVP. And your financial background is...what? You have been trained in finance and accounting...where?

Whereas the incumbent is qualified.

At any rate...kids, don't beleive everything you read on the internet. When it comes to this forum, a good solid 90% of it is BS. In the end, it really means nothing. Most people are wise to these guys and their schtick. It's been going on for years, Horrace and crew. Whatever. Just so you know who and what you are really dealing with. Notice the voters have rejected him several times already, they will reject him again for EVP. It's a hobby for him or something, I guess.

I'm outta here, I'm going to go "dunk test" engines like Combatpigg does by soaking them in water to test for "air leaks". Good advice there! Along with "dip your canopy in brake fluid to clean it" and much else you read around here.
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:33 PM
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You just flunked the pressure test, slick.
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Old 03-26-2005, 12:01 PM
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ORIGINAL: combatpigg

You just flunked the pressure test, slick.
Wow. Wotta zinger. Jon Stewart is looking for a new head writer to spice up THE DAILY SHOW, your agent should get in touch. Humoristical talent like yours is wasted on philistines like us here on some goofus model airplane forum, it would be the crime of the century were the world at large denied the opportunity to bask in the searing glow of your acerbic wit and droll bon mots.

Wags, pundits, plaudits, all agree...every few centuries comes a watershed, a sea change, an epiphany in comedy, a man and a moment that best expresses the frailty and innate absurdity of the humanistic condition, and who knew that man and that moment would be found right here on a lowly model airplane forum?

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