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The EVP position

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Old 04-01-2005, 03:19 AM
  #1  
J_R
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Default The EVP position

Well, I have blown my New Year’s resolution not to engage Horrace Cain again this year. I swore to myself I just was not going to do it again this year. Horrace is pretty good at pulling my string. So… I lost. He picked and picked… I responded. I am going to renew the vow. Wish me luck.

I would like to discuss this year’s EVP election.

First, Horrace will be nominated for the position, by his local friends, if no one else. If less than three viable candidates are nominated, he will be on the ballot. It’s about that simple (my opinion). That’s all I have to say about Horrace.

The EVP position is unique. Under the AMA bylaws, the empty title of CFO is awarded to the EVP. The CFO has no inherent power, other than to monitor operations and issue reports. Virtually every action as CFO requires a motion by the EC. If the EC has no faith in the EVP, it’s unlikely motions will be made or passed. Instead, outside services may be purchased.

The EVP position has developed into something unforeseen when the bylaws were changed in the ‘80’s. The position described in the by-laws is no longer what is asked for by the EC, or required for the operation of the AMA.

Doug Holland came to the EC at the request of Chuck Foreman, a previous VP. Holland was appointed to the position by the EC. Holland owns a CPA firm. He donates a tremendous amount of time and effort to the AMA. If some one without the expertise he possesses were to fill the position, my guess is that it would cost the AMA upwards of $300,000 a year to buy the services Holland donates, based on what is being paid for similar expertise here in California.

Doug Holland does not like or pursue the limelight. Instead, he quietly makes recommendations, and, if asked by the EC, makes every effort to carry out those that involve his expertise. As an example, in the past he arranged to roll together several loans (total $4,000,000 IIRC) the AMA had outstanding and finance them with Indiana Educational Bonds. In the last EC minutes it shows that he was concerned with the fact that interest rates are rising from the 1.2% interest rate, and was 1.95% at that reporting. He was talking about entering into a fixed rate loan to avoid future increases. Now, I don’t know about the rest of you, but, I can see that someone without Indiana or tax expertise might have cost the AMA a large amount of money over the years the loan has existed. A lot of money!

The biggest surprise to me, personally, was the hiring of Don Koranda that Doug spearheaded. In the years that Doug has held the position, he has kept the AMA’s reserves invested in low risk issues that have returned better than market averages. I can go on with his accomplishments, but, I won’t. If you expected this to be a pitch to re-elect Doug, it is and it isn’t.

Doug Holland has not yet decided if he wants to run again. It concerns me that he might not.

If you or someone you know is truly capable of performing as the CFO of a $25 million non-profit (Dave Brown’s estimate of value), run yourself, or try and talk them into running. At least in my opinion, the time has passed where the job can be handled by an amateur. Candidates need to be a CPA and a tax expert in non-profits, with some experience in running a non-profit (my opinion). Finding people like this is not easy, since it pays nothing.

Perhaps, as the EC tried to do, it is time to rewrite the by-laws. Maybe moving the CFO part of the position to a paid staff position is an idea whose time has arrived. Perhaps the EVP should be a Director on the Board of Directors (EC) and not have the CFO position included in the duties. Perhaps the AMA can continue to find a qualified volunteer willing to hassle with the politics to fill the position. I don’t know.

If you feel that Doug is the right answer, calling him and telling him so might sway him to run. Alternately, sending e-mails to him through the AMA staff might serve the same purpose. Writing him an e-mail directly is ineffective. Even if he runs, and wins, this problem is not going to go away and needs to be addressed by the EC.

All of the above is my opinion.
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position

Not ignoring this, so I'll just get back to it next week. You will get my four [sm=thumbdown.gif][sm=thumbdown.gif][sm=thumbdown.gif][sm=thumbdown.gif].
Have a lease on some hunting land up the country and there is one rather nice creek running through it. So a cousin, a friend, and I are gonna' just go up and try out the bassin' and the catfishin' for a few days.
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:29 AM
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Default RE: The EVP position

I don't have anything personal against either man mentioned....BUT....Doug's 'monthly' report frequently says (IMHO) absolutely nothing - just some nice talk. Some months he admits there is nothing to report - but I can't believe that....we are handling millions of bucks and NOTHING is happening????? Sorry Charlie.......not going to buy that!

Jerry
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:33 AM
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Unfortunaly I am sure THAT is exaxtly what makes Horrible run.
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Old 04-02-2005, 07:00 AM
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Default RE: The EVP position

Did I read that right? $4 with 6 zeros? What in the world are we doing with 4mil in debt?

Jeff Stultz
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position

ORIGINAL: tailskid

I don't have anything personal against either man mentioned....BUT....Doug's 'monthly' report frequently says (IMHO) absolutely nothing - just some nice talk. Some months he admits there is nothing to report - but I can't believe that....we are handling millions of bucks and NOTHING is happening????? Sorry Charlie.......not going to buy that!

Jerry
Hi Jerry

If you have been watching this forum, you know that I, also, think much more information on the operation of the AMA, in all aspects, should appear in Model Aviation Magazine. Having said that, lets take a basic look at the constraints and the actions placed on the Council in general and the EVP in particular and see what they do provide to us.

First, the position, as defined in the by-laws.

Section 4. The Executive Vice President shall be the Chief Financial Officer of the AMA, shall monitor the financial and corporate affairs of the AMA, make an annual report to the membership regarding the financial affairs of the AMA; and shall make periodic reports, not less than quarterly, to the Executive Council regarding financial matters of the AMA, and shall assume the duties of the President in the event of a vacancy as described in Section 2. until such vacancy is filled.

Second, the entire EC operates under a set of rules that I posted for discussion here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/How_...2215801/tm.htm

The operative information here is: The Executive Vice President shall write primarily about the financial news of the Academy and secondarily about National concerns.
The separate District Vice President's columns shall primarily contain information about modeling within the individual V.P.s own district.
The individual V.P. may delegate the actual writing of the column.

Third, by EC motion, at some point in the past, it was decided there was insufficient interest by the membership to print the EC Minutes in Model Aviation Magazine.

Fourth, During the period from about 1979 up through about 1983, the use of the AMA News section turned into something very different than it was ever intended for. Everyone that wants to understand why the EC changed things need to go back into the digital archives on the AMA site, in the Members only section and do a search on "AMA news" and read through the history. Most won't, but it is at the least, entertaining.

*****

What Doug Holland puts into his column is what the guidelines limit him to. I don't agree with it, and I am not positive he would write more if he could. At the same time, his reports in the EC Minutes provide a substantial amount of the fodder for the discussions that take place in this forum. His reports in the minutes do give a fairly complete view of the financial reporting, excluding the things discussed in executive session. If I had my way, those EC minutes would be published in MA for all to read and all VP's would be allowed to comment on the actions taken in the EC meetings. That is not the case. IMHO, you can thank the abuse of those from the late 70's and early 80's for the current situation (and it was not limited to any one person, IMO).

I believe that between the Financial Statement, the EC Minutes, and Doug's column, we get a pretty accurate view of the financial happenings involving the AMA. Should the information be more easily accessed? I believe it should.

At the same time, the membership at large appears to be much more concerned with having pictures of themselves published in the AMA News section, with local reports. As it stands now, the information is there to read, IF you are willing to go to the Member's Only Site and read through the EC minutes. In many cases, discussions are taking place in closed executive session that do not appear anywhere. The concept of executive session is a legitimate one, but, again, IMHO, it has been abused by a few.

One of the things Koranda is doing is to have Model Aviation Magazine become a better communications device. Time will tell.




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Old 04-02-2005, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position

ORIGINAL: jmodguy

Did I read that right? $4 with 6 zeros? What in the world are we doing with 4mil in debt?

Jeff Stultz
ordinary average RCer
The answer to your question lies in the EC minutes, and the AMA's financial statements which are in the Member's Only Section on the AMA site. If you want to know exactly what it covered, you are going to have to do some digging. About $2,000,000 is related the the HQ building and refurbishing other buildings. Other amounts were from developing the National Flying Site in Muncie. There were several outstanding loans, all at higher interest rates. Doug Holland’s expertise was applied and the loans were all rolled into one at the low interest rates reported.

When RCadmin started this forum, he held a somewhat different view of the AMA than I think he does today. He publicy called for an RCU member, with the expertise necessary, to make an assessment of the financial statement. It was never actually posted on RCU, but was put in a separate section. It still exists today here: http://utopia.rcuniverse.com/amafinancials.html . Although somewhat dated, it will give you an idea of how a “disinterested” third party views the financial statement from the past. He touches on the loan you inquired about.

The statement at the end of the analysis always seemed very "on target" to me. I believe it is the exacty approach being used by Don Koranda. I post that statement here:

******

I see two major challenges for the AMA Leadership:

The AMA must be an organization for its members. Members must be first and foremost in every decision made by the leadership. To keep them first, you have to know how they feel and what they are thinking and must do your best to reflect their wishes in your decisions. Survey members, visits clubs, get on the websites, listen. Not to what you want to hear, but to real members with real opinions. Use their input into your decisions. Have integrity in your decision making. Is the decision in the best interests of your membership?

Almost any organization has a natural bias toward establishing a fixed structure. Infrastructure is added as the organization grows and the infrastructure becomes part of the overhead that the organization must support in the future. The national flying site is but one example. Staff levels are another. Proliferation of programs is yet another. In the event that growth slows or stops, these overheads become a burden that will doom an organization. If that happens, higher costs will now be spread across fewer members, so the cost per member becomes much higher. Members who can marginally afford the dues or those that are marginally interested in the hobby quit, leaving an even greater burden for those who remain. In aviation, it’s known as a death spiral.

The opinions contained in this document are my own and were not influenced by anyone else. This entire document is categorized as my personal opinion and in no way should be construed as anything other than that.
**********
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Old 04-02-2005, 01:35 PM
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Just in case anyone is not picking up on my hints, I believe that Doug Holland concluded that it was time for the AMA to stop being run like a local club. His solution was to suggest that the EC hire Don Kornada to run the AMA as Executive Director... just as the bylaws outline. His position was supported by the EC and the AMA is now being run as a business rather than a $25 million club.
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Old 04-05-2005, 07:52 AM
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JR; I hope you are right. Maybe Koranda will be able to straighten the mess out at AMA I hope he will but I for one aint gonna hold my breath I am starting to feel that no one could ever fix the AMA.
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Old 04-06-2005, 11:22 PM
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ORIGINAL: J_R

Well, I have blown my New Year’s resolution not to engage Horrace Cain again this year. I swore to myself I just was not going to do it again this year. Horrace is pretty good at pulling my string. So… I lost. He picked and picked… I responded. I am going to renew the vow. Wish me luck.
JR, you posted this on April 1st. Quite a joke!


I would like to discuss this year’s EVP election.

First, Horrace will be nominated for the position, by his local friends, if no one else. If less than three viable candidates are nominated, he will be on the ballot. It’s about that simple (my opinion). That’s all I have to say about Horrace.
Not asking any friends. If no one from this forum has adequate concern for AMA's future and is willing to do something to obtain significant change in AMA, then there will be no nomination.


The EVP position is unique. Under the AMA bylaws, the empty title of CFO is awarded to the EVP. The CFO has no inherent power, other than to monitor operations and issue reports. Virtually every action as CFO requires a motion by the EC. If the EC has no faith in the EVP, it’s unlikely motions will be made or passed. Instead, outside services may be purchased.

The EVP position has developed into something unforeseen when the bylaws were changed in the ‘80’s. The position described in the by-laws is no longer what is asked for by the EC, or required for the operation of the AMA.

//snip//

If you or someone you know is truly capable of performing as the CFO of a $25 million non-profit (Dave Brown’s estimate of value), run yourself, or try and talk them into running. At least in my opinion, the time has passed where the job can be handled by an amateur. Candidates need to be a CPA and a tax expert in non-profits, with some experience in running a non-profit (my opinion). Finding people like this is not easy, since it pays nothing.
Answers. com says; Chief Financial Officer - CFO
"This is the senior manager who is responsible for overseeing the financial activities of an entire company. This includes signing checks, monitoring cash flow, and financial planning"

"Whereas a UK Finance Director is commonly a chartered accountant, it has become commonplace for non-accountants to become CFOs in the United States. Indeed, many CFOs have an MBA but no CPA or other accounting qualification."


Perhaps, as the EC tried to do, it is time to rewrite the by-laws. Maybe moving the CFO part of the position to a paid staff position is an idea whose time has arrived. Perhaps the EVP should be a Director on the Board of Directors (EC) and not have the CFO position included in the duties. Perhaps the AMA can continue to find a qualified volunteer willing to hassle with the politics to fill the position. I don’t know.
At last JR you said something smart. You said "I don’t know." very true.[>:]

Wikipedia says: >>>"The CFO typically reports to the Chief Executive Officer, and is frequently a member of the board of directors.<<<

Investopedia Says: >>>The CFO is similar to a treasurer or controller.<<<

In an association organized for the purposes such as AMA is so organized, the LAST thing I want is to see the CFO a PAID EMPLOYEE. AMA has a paid comptroller and that person is under the Ex. Director. If that person also became the so-called "CFO", then the Ex Director having power to hire and fire said CFO WOULD ENTIRELY CONTROL THE FUNDING OF AMA. Anyone that would desire such a situation either already has his/her finger in the pot, or plans to join the finger party very soon, or is entirely ignorant of such potential.

First, the position, as defined in the by-laws.

Section 4. The Executive Vice President shall be the Chief Financial Officer of the AMA, shall monitor the financial and corporate affairs of the AMA, make an annual report to the membership regarding the financial affairs of the AMA; and shall make periodic reports, not less than quarterly, to the Executive Council regarding financial matters of the AMA, and shall assume the duties of the President in the event of a vacancy as described in Section 2. until such vacancy is filled.
That is simply what he WILL do. There are infinite items that the CFO is NOT restricted from. Anyone with the power to control the purse strings also can control the hearts and minds. Big Business evidences that on a daily basis.

Reference the MA column, as an EVP, I would report everything I knew of AMA's financial position, both current and planned.
If I received flack from the EC, then I simply would establish a web site restricted to AMA members, as well as it could be, and the info would be there. Hardball can be a favorite game for me.

While I believe the AMA should be administrated as a business, I also believe that the policy makers should be active model airplane people first and foremost. In addition, each department of AMA administrative functions should pull its own weight. Any commercial enterprise must pay its own ticket.

As I have stated in other posts in this forum, the best return-on-investment in this AMA is to obtain more members and retain those we get and/or have. So AMA member, if you like to think this is YOUR AMA, again you have an opportunity to do something about returning the current AMA to a member-oriented AMA. If I don't get nominated from here then its over as of June 08. If I do, then we will really get to see just how sincere you are.

Your Choice? [8D]

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Old 04-07-2005, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: The EVP position

The IRS tells us that the Articles of Incorporation and the organizational by-laws shall define the managerial organization of the not-for-profit. In the case of the AMA the definition of the EVP is defined in the bylaws as: “The Executive Vice President shall be the Chief Financial Officer of the AMA, shall monitor the financial and corporate affairs of the AMA, make an annual report to the membership regarding the financial affairs of the AMA; and shall make periodic reports, not less than quarterly, to the Executive Council regarding financial matters of the AMA, and shall assume the duties of the President in the event of a vacancy as described in Section 2. until such vacancy is filled.”

To go to the internet for a definition is about as useful as running a Google search for the definition of rudder, or elevator. Certainly, the correct information is to be found; just as certainly, conflicting information, that is of no benefit, will also be found. Being able to distinguish the difference is paramount, i.e., a not-for-profit is not the same animal as a for profit corporation.

In the post Enron world of accounting a law was passed to insure the integrity and actions of managements at all levels. The act is known as the "Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002". The act may be found here in its entirety: http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/g...xley072302.pdf or here for a summary: http://www.aicpa.org/info/sarbanes_oxley_summary.htm .

A careful reading of Sarbanes will reveal that it applies to only public corporations. Further research will reveal that oversight boards, CPAs and Attorneys practicing tax law state that it should be used by non-for-profit organizations and even private organizations were there are stakeholders. There are literally hundreds of such statements to be found on the net. An example is here: http://www.cpbo.org/archive/resources/resource1370.html .

As can be seen, the only practical way to implement Sarbanes is to have immediate access to a CPA, just for the BOD, or to have a CPA on the BOD. This is the post-Enron world of accounting.

Here is an additional source on the running of not-for-profit organizations. There are many such sites available on the net: http://nonprofit.about.com/ .

I have not communicated with Doug Holland since early January, and if anyone has questions about the above, unless there is someone with sufficient knowledge here, I will have to call him. I am reaching the limits of my understanding on these points. If another member of this forum has expertise to share, please step up.

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Old 04-07-2005, 01:34 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hossfly


SNIP

If I don't get nominated from here then its over as of June 08. If I do, then we will really get to see just how sincere you are.

Your Choice? [8D]


Hey Horrible,
I have a quick little question for you. First off, are you threatening to leave the organization? I could have sworn you previously have indicated that you are a LIFE MEMBER. Wonder how you are going to make those two marry up and make sense.

You constantly write and act like everyone here is too stupid to tie shoelaces and you are ghods gift to humanity. Sorry, but I do not ascribe to either of those false theses of yours. There are things about you I wonder about, but they are your family's problem not ours.

Please explain how and why we should bend knee to the likes of you.
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Old 04-07-2005, 05:16 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position

Ouch Jim......

Jerry
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Old 04-07-2005, 05:38 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position

Jerry,

I tried to be very careful and nice. I only asked reasonable questions. If those questions are too rough for him we surely will not benefit from electing him.

How many times has he said he will not run and here he is begging someone to nominate him?

How many times has he said nobody on the forum had a clue but he has all the answers?

What are the answers he claims to have?

Have you read any of his old columns in the Model Aviation Archive? I have read a few and what I saw in his columns is disturbing.
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position


ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum


ORIGINAL: Hossfly


SNIP

If I don't get nominated from here then its over as of June 08. If I do, then we will really get to see just how sincere you are.

Your Choice? [8D]


Hey Horrible,
I have a quick little question for you. First off, are you threatening to leave the organization? I could have sworn you previously have indicated that you are a LIFE MEMBER. Wonder how you are going to make those two marry up and make sense.

You constantly write and act like everyone here is too stupid to tie shoelaces and you are ghods gift to humanity. Sorry, but I do not ascribe to either of those false theses of yours. There are things about you I wonder about, but they are your family's problem not ours.

Please explain how and why we should bend knee to the likes of you.
Jim, you never cease to amaze me. With a post like this, I certainly hope you can find slip-ons.

Look at your own quote. Then read the posts. JR says that I will get nominated by my friends. I say No to that. I say that if those on this forum will not nominate me, then I will NOT be nominated. Nominations have to be at AMA by Jun 08. If they are not then I am NOT running.
If I do get nominated. then how seriously will those here that P&M about AMA get out and get the vote in?

Jim you are the epitome of whom I speak. You P&M about AMA however when an opportunity to get some change in AMA direction appears, you are all against it. Actually it's not that I think in terms of smarts, but more so a matter of respect. You are like so many that have problems with the things that are, but you will not lift a finger to do anything about those conditions. You can bet the farm that I have NO RESPECT for that type of person.

Yes, I am a life member of AMA. I plan to remain so as long as the Good Lord allows me to remain on this earth. I want to see many significant changes in how AMA operates. I am for model aviation, not for personal bureaucracies. As when I was a DVP, I keep NO secrets from the membership and THEY (the insiders) D_mn well know that, so that fact scares the insiders to do everything they can to be certain I don't get back there. I'm sure they appreciate your help.

So Jim, I suggest you come out of that smelly hole and find the fresh air. It is rather pleasant out here. [>:]
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Old 04-07-2005, 10:57 PM
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I expected you to take the easy way out and you measured up to the expectation very well. Answered the easy question and ignored the hard one while throwing more of your effluent around. Too bad you are so self centered as to not see that there are folks diligently working to change things. I guess it comes with having an ego bigger than the Upper Peninsula. Too bad because you do have a good idea from time to time.

Let me repeat the question you ignored because it is important.

Please explain how and why we should bend knee to the likes of you.
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Old 04-09-2005, 04:16 PM
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ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum

//SNIP//
Let me repeat the question you ignored because it is important.

Please explain how and why we should bend knee to the likes of you.
No one expects you to, Jim. Least of all, me. If you don't think I can get some changes made at AMA, so be it.
I have stated my most ardent positions somewhere around this forum. If you don't like 'em, so be it.

If you think my directions are good for model aviation and care to lend your support --Welcome. If not, so be it.

Your call.
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Old 04-09-2005, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position

Many good points are being made. The AMA must be run with fiscal and planning responsibility. CPA credentials are not enough. We could vote/select/elect a lettered person to the post and if he does not have the talent, desire, and dedication to doing a good job, we will have gained nothing.

Whether it is agreed by all or not, the people we elect to guide and drive our organization must have the same character traits. Additionally, they must be able to work with people and get the constituents to support their goals. In my mind, it is not enough to present your points in an argumentive manner. Nor does it accomplish very much by brushing off a members comments with, 'it's your choice, so be it'.

Of course it's his choice. It's a choice all of us can and do make. I'd really like to see some positive discussion and an evironment that encourages harmony and the incorporation of other ideas.

I, for one, Horace, cannot support you in spite of the fact that I believe you to have excellent ideas and vision for the future. Just from what I've seen in this forum, your ability to generate and perpetuate disharmony and turmoil far and away exceeds the value of your vision.

Respectfully,

Joe
AMA L166


Thou shalt maintain thy airspeed lest the ground rises and smites thee...and you shall surely perish.
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Old 04-09-2005, 08:18 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position

I have never heard of running a negative campain against the voters before. You might want to tweek that just a little.
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Old 04-09-2005, 09:02 PM
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Jim Branaum
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Default RE: The EVP position

ORIGINAL: Hossfly


ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum

//SNIP//
Let me repeat the question you ignored because it is important.

Please explain how and why we should bend knee to the likes of you.
No one expects you to, Jim. Least of all, me. If you don't think I can get some changes made at AMA, so be it.
I have stated my most ardent positions somewhere around this forum. If you don't like 'em, so be it.

If you think my directions are good for model aviation and care to lend your support --Welcome. If not, so be it.

Your call.
Horrace the Horrible,

You sound just like every other sleazy politician, twist the words but don't answer the direct question.

Before you get the wrong idea and think I am just against all of your ideas, let me share a factual story with you.

Ever hear about Emu ranches?

Several years ago it was discovered that cooked emu is extremely low in cholesterol and tastes pretty good. The problem was that there is other additional information that was not made available to those who jumped into the market of raising the birds by the thousands. Everyone just had to buy and raise those birds. There were fanstastic business plans and a few folks made lots of money, early on. The problem showed up after several hundred pounds of ground emu were in the markets.

Know what happened?

Most of those ranchers went broke as the emu meat market went rapidly and irrevocably bust.

Ever wonder why?

Cooked emu meat is in fact, very tasty and very healthy. The problem is the terrible stench it releases when being cooked just about knocks the average person over. It can make some sick to the stomach. Hard to sell and hard to eat if you can't stand to cook it. That killed that market and broke many folks who spent hundreds and thousands of dollars only to have huge birds they couldn't sell but needed to feed.

The point is that many of your ideas, liked cooked emu meat, are great but the price we would have to pay in other areas just to have you put them in place is like the smell of that emu meat cooking.

I would prefer you share your ideas with others and let them work out the details.




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Old 04-09-2005, 09:23 PM
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falcon2000
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Default RE: The EVP position

Must be old and slow...sorry, I don't follow what you mean.

Joe
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Old 04-10-2005, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position

ORIGINAL: falcon2000

//snip//

Whether it is agreed by all or not, the people we elect to guide and drive our organization must have the same character traits. Additionally, they must be able to work with people and get the constituents to support their goals. In my mind, it is not enough to present your points in an argumentive manner. Nor does it accomplish very much by brushing off a members comments with, 'it's your choice, so be it'.
Thanks, Joe, for your being candid as you so feel. Regardless of what I say or do, JB will be there whimpering and bellowing.
I have been in this business too long and have far too little time left to volunteer that time to help turn around AMA and yet be expected to be some smooth "poly-ticking" brown noser changing with the wind. My goals were stated in the first post of my thread "Does AMA have a real future?" For those with different goals, SO BE IT.
Of course it's his choice. It's a choice all of us can and do make. I'd really like to see some positive discussion and an evironment that encourages harmony and the incorporation of other ideas.

I, for one, Horace, cannot support you in spite of the fact that I believe you to have excellent ideas and vision for the future. Just from what I've seen in this forum, your ability to generate and perpetuate disharmony and turmoil far and away exceeds the value of your vision.

Respectfully,

Joe
AMA L166

Again thanks for your being so candid. I am sacrificing my time and work for the benefit of those wishing to enjoy model aviation in the future. My future is pretty well sealed. I have adequate assets and facilities to satisfy my needs for the remainder of my life.
If the membership had rather sacrifice their prospects for a better AMA in order to maintain harmony and politically-correct status quo, then that is their loss and will have little effect on this individual. Sounds pompous as _ell, I know, but I tell it like it is.
So be it!![>:]
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Old 04-10-2005, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position

ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum

//SNIP//
Let me repeat the question you ignored because it is important.

Please explain how and why we should bend knee to the likes of you.
No one expects you to, Jim. Least of all, me. If you don't think I can get some changes made at AMA, so be it.
I have stated my most ardent positions somewhere around this forum. If you don't like 'em, so be it.

If you think my directions are good for model aviation and care to lend your support --Welcome. If not, so be it.

Your call.
Horrace the Horrible,

You sound just like every other sleazy politician, twist the words but don't answer the direct question.

Before you get the wrong idea and think I am just against all of your ideas, let me share a factual story with you.

Ever hear about Emu ranches?

Several years ago it was discovered that cooked emu is extremely low in cholesterol and tastes pretty good. The problem was that there is other additional information that was not made available to those who jumped into the market of raising the birds by the thousands. Everyone just had to buy and raise those birds. There were fanstastic business plans and a few folks made lots of money, early on. The problem showed up after several hundred pounds of ground emu were in the markets.

Know what happened?

Most of those ranchers went broke as the emu meat market went rapidly and irrevocably bust.

Ever wonder why?

Cooked emu meat is in fact, very tasty and very healthy. The problem is the terrible stench it releases when being cooked just about knocks the average person over. It can make some sick to the stomach. Hard to sell and hard to eat if you can't stand to cook it. That killed that market and broke many folks who spent hundreds and thousands of dollars only to have huge birds they couldn't sell but needed to feed.

The point is that many of your ideas, liked cooked emu meat, are great but the price we would have to pay in other areas just to have you put them in place is like the smell of that emu meat cooking.

I would prefer you share your ideas with others and let them work out the details.
JIM, THE UNLETTERED:

The question was well answered: You, or anyone else, are not expected to bend a knee to me. How much plainer can that answer be?
HOW? However you wish as it is not expected.

WHY? No reason whatsoever to bend a knee.

However, I offer a direct answer for how the membership can send a message that they are fed up with the status quo at AMA. As long as the elections continue for the status quo, then how the _ell do you expect to ever get a message across? Only three years and its all over. If you prefer the way things are, then as I said before, it's your choice. It is an expense in time, assets, well-being, and life-pleasure that I can do without, yet I offer the service for the benefit of model aviation.

If you are willing to take the leap, I'll nominate you. Do you have the guts?[>:]


Edited to add: Jim it wasn't the smell of the meat cooking that killed the Emu thing. It was the price in the market place because some Aussies duped a bunch of get-rich-quick types into purchasing the breeding stock at preposterous prices. Knew one of those types. He found it's rather difficult to sell any meat to the common people at $9-12 per pound when the best prime beef is $3-4# and poultry is less than a $. The prospect was tempting however it did not take a PHD in marketing to see what was happening. BTW don't believe all that you read on the internet. It was a SCAM and it worked just like the pyramids.
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Old 04-10-2005, 08:58 PM
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Hey Horrible,

I don't have any problems with Doug Holland, he does an excellent job and understands all the issues. In fact, from MY recent direct and on going interaction, I am convinced that he has a much better handle on things than you do or could. I don't want his job, but there are others he has to work with that do need to be changed.

BTW, didn't read about the emu thing on the Internet and wonder what it had to say. Obviously you shop in different markets than my family because the cost was never that high. No, I had friends involved and he told me that the stench I complained about was the proverbial straw. Once the word got out about that, sales plummeted. That was what did him in, not your Australian friend. He simply couldn't sell the stuff. Last I heard folks were turning them loose to roam in the wild - until our local critters made meals of them.

As for your ideas, I already said some of them were great but it was the stench of the collateral damage that you would cause that was unacceptable. I really wish you stop the whining and crying because you are not getting your way again.


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Old 04-14-2005, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: The EVP position



While on the subject of elections, appointments and items of like nature, does anyone know how much the AMA is paying Don Koranda for his services including expense account allowances and bonus? Also, what happened to Joyce Hayger? Is she still on the payroll and what is her job?
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