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How many park flyers have YOU seen?
#26
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: J_R
Well... it didn't seem right to say at an AMA chartered club. Some clubs have no field. At the same time, there are public facilities where clubs exist but have no control. So... I said "club setting" in an effort to cover the bases. It doesn't really matter if the clubs are AMA chartered if there are safety rules in effect, etc. You know, the kind of things that organized clubs do to make it a club setting.
Well... it didn't seem right to say at an AMA chartered club. Some clubs have no field. At the same time, there are public facilities where clubs exist but have no control. So... I said "club setting" in an effort to cover the bases. It doesn't really matter if the clubs are AMA chartered if there are safety rules in effect, etc. You know, the kind of things that organized clubs do to make it a club setting.
Well, I'll take out the AMA club fields, and say 6-10 in the last two weeks...and I don't get out much.
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
What I cant wait for is an electric TF dragster or funny car or pro stock even a nascar. OH yes the smell of burning armature and ions in the air .Your gonna love it
Lonnie
Lonnie
#28
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: crownvic
What I cant wait for is an electric TF dragster or funny car or pro stock even a nascar. OH yes the smell of burning armature and ions in the air .Your gonna love it
Lonnie
What I cant wait for is an electric TF dragster or funny car or pro stock even a nascar. OH yes the smell of burning armature and ions in the air .Your gonna love it
Lonnie
What is a TF dragster. I used to follow drag raciing year ago. Don Garletz, Dick Landy, Don, the snake, Pardone. But a TF dragster must be something new.
#29
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: aeajr
What is a TF dragster. I used to follow drag raciing year ago. Don Garletz, Dick Landy, Don, the snake, Pardone. But a TF dragster must be something new.
ORIGINAL: crownvic
What I cant wait for is an electric TF dragster or funny car or pro stock even a nascar. OH yes the smell of burning armature and ions in the air .Your gonna love it
Lonnie
What I cant wait for is an electric TF dragster or funny car or pro stock even a nascar. OH yes the smell of burning armature and ions in the air .Your gonna love it
Lonnie
What is a TF dragster. I used to follow drag raciing year ago. Don Garletz, Dick Landy, Don, the snake, Pardone. But a TF dragster must be something new.
Haven't heard of electrics on the dragstrip or big ovals yet. but there was a Land Speed Record car that ran a couple of years ago. Better than 245 mph, and pwer was supplied by 2400 mah sub-C NiMH cells - over 6,000 of them. Two 150 KW brushless motors drawing 800 - 1000 Amps. That would make one heck of hotliner! Duration of under 2 minutes isn't all that great, tho.
Abel
#30
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
I spend a lot of time at our LHS (I know, a lot of us do ) and do some part time work fixing whatever customers bring in that's broke (mainly Monster Trucks )
Anyway...he sells a lot of those Firebirds, and E-Zone, etc. airplanes, but I've never actually seen anyone (besides me ) outside our club's field flying them.
I hear a lot of stories about the one and only flight into a tree/pole/ground and a lot of guys telling me the same thing "It's a LOT harder than it looks" or, "It's a LOT harder than I thought it was gonna be"
I think a lot of these new "park flyer" airplanes lead a very short life, ya know what I mean?!
Anyway...he sells a lot of those Firebirds, and E-Zone, etc. airplanes, but I've never actually seen anyone (besides me ) outside our club's field flying them.
I hear a lot of stories about the one and only flight into a tree/pole/ground and a lot of guys telling me the same thing "It's a LOT harder than it looks" or, "It's a LOT harder than I thought it was gonna be"
I think a lot of these new "park flyer" airplanes lead a very short life, ya know what I mean?!
#31
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
I think that is an EXCELLENT question, I understood it perfectly.
None. Zero. They fly them at my clubs, and they fly them at indoor gatherings, but I do NOT see tons of park flyers at every local soccer field. I do not go to my club field with any worries of being shot down by a park flying unknowingly flying across the way. Most of these totally ready to go ones are on 27mhz anyway.
I'm not afraid of park flyers. They are just fine by me. I don't think kids are really into it, it's not like thirty years ago. Too many other interests.
None. Zero. They fly them at my clubs, and they fly them at indoor gatherings, but I do NOT see tons of park flyers at every local soccer field. I do not go to my club field with any worries of being shot down by a park flying unknowingly flying across the way. Most of these totally ready to go ones are on 27mhz anyway.
I'm not afraid of park flyers. They are just fine by me. I don't think kids are really into it, it's not like thirty years ago. Too many other interests.
#33
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
I also think you have some REALLY skewed poll results there already.
I'm not sure how people can so grossly misinterpret the question.
"Oh, yeah, I have seen DOZENS of park flyers, in an ad in park flyer magazine!"
I also think you have some REALLY skewed poll results there already.
I'm not sure how people can so grossly misinterpret the question.
"Oh, yeah, I have seen DOZENS of park flyers, in an ad in park flyer magazine!"
#34
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
Yeah, I'm just wondering who answered "11 or more"...I'm sorry, it's just either a really daft interpretation of the question, or some alternate universe of Happy Modelland where there are kids and their pipe-smoking dads all enjoying park flyers in each and every soccer and baseball field you pass. It's actually pretty rare to see a kid playing with a model airplane nowadays, which is why you can always find cheapo Estes and Air Hogs arfs in the discount bin at Radio Shack and Toys R Us. They just ain't a hot item.
And they are all on 27 or 49mhz.
I'm not particularly scared of the "park flyer menace".
Here in NYC, there is no flying allowed in Central Park, anyway!
And they are all on 27 or 49mhz.
I'm not particularly scared of the "park flyer menace".
Here in NYC, there is no flying allowed in Central Park, anyway!
#35
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Yeah, I'm just wondering who answered "11 or more"...I'm sorry, it's just either a really daft interpretation of the question, or some alternate universe of Happy Modelland where there are kids and their pipe-smoking dads all enjoying park flyers in each and every soccer and baseball field you pass. It's actually pretty rare to see a kid playing with a model airplane nowadays, which is why you can always find cheapo Estes and Air Hogs arfs in the discount bin at Radio Shack and Toys R Us. They just ain't a hot item.
And they are all on 27 or 49mhz.
I'm not particularly scared of the "park flyer menace".
Here in NYC, there is no flying allowed in Central Park, anyway!
Yeah, I'm just wondering who answered "11 or more"...I'm sorry, it's just either a really daft interpretation of the question, or some alternate universe of Happy Modelland where there are kids and their pipe-smoking dads all enjoying park flyers in each and every soccer and baseball field you pass. It's actually pretty rare to see a kid playing with a model airplane nowadays, which is why you can always find cheapo Estes and Air Hogs arfs in the discount bin at Radio Shack and Toys R Us. They just ain't a hot item.
And they are all on 27 or 49mhz.
I'm not particularly scared of the "park flyer menace".
Here in NYC, there is no flying allowed in Central Park, anyway!
BTW, has it occurred to you that what you see in your environs may not be typical of the rest of the country? After all, NYC is something of an alternate universe in its own right. Like, how many FF models have you seen in NYC in the past month? How about turbines? For that matter how many model flying sites, period?
Abel
#36
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Yeah, I'm just wondering who answered "11 or more"...I'm sorry, it's just either a really daft interpretation of the question, or some alternate universe of Happy Modelland where there are kids and their pipe-smoking dads all enjoying park flyers in each and every soccer and baseball field you pass. It's actually pretty rare to see a kid playing with a model airplane nowadays, which is why you can always find cheapo Estes and Air Hogs arfs in the discount bin at Radio Shack and Toys R Us. They just ain't a hot item.
And they are all on 27 or 49mhz.
I'm not particularly scared of the "park flyer menace".
Here in NYC, there is no flying allowed in Central Park, anyway!
Yeah, I'm just wondering who answered "11 or more"...I'm sorry, it's just either a really daft interpretation of the question, or some alternate universe of Happy Modelland where there are kids and their pipe-smoking dads all enjoying park flyers in each and every soccer and baseball field you pass. It's actually pretty rare to see a kid playing with a model airplane nowadays, which is why you can always find cheapo Estes and Air Hogs arfs in the discount bin at Radio Shack and Toys R Us. They just ain't a hot item.
And they are all on 27 or 49mhz.
I'm not particularly scared of the "park flyer menace".
Here in NYC, there is no flying allowed in Central Park, anyway!
Living on Long Island, working in NYC and having traveled some of the country on busiess and pleasure, I have to agree that there is nothing typical about NYC. It really is a place unto itself, or as abel_pranger put it, an alternate universe.
The problem with the quetsion is one of poor definition of the term Park Flyer. I read that as someone who flies in the park or some other location outside the traditional AMA club fields. I have see quite a number over the 2 years I have been flying. I have been a park flyer myself on more than one occasion. My Aerobird goes everywhere with me and sometimes I fly it in the park. Most people would classify the Aerobird as a parkflyer.
I also fly my slope gliders and my Aerobird off a cliff near the beaches which are local or state parks. Slope soaring is a lot of fun. Park flying!
So that makes me a park flyer too, even when I am flying a slope glider with no motor.
( makes me think of a Dr. Pepper commercial. ...... wouldn't you like to be a park flyer too ....)
However some people will read that as parkflyer, meaning a small electric plane. Those we fly at our AMA field all the time.
No problem no matter how you read the question. I have seen 11 parkflyers lined up next to each other on the ground and seen 5-6 in the air at one time. I have been in the company of 5 park flyers who are flying electrics and gliders in a park setting. All adults! No kids ( under 18 )
So 11 in two years? Fogedabout it! Way more than 11.
#37
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Yeah, I'm just wondering who answered "11 or more"...I'm sorry, it's just either a really daft interpretation of the question, or some alternate universe ....
Here in NYC, there is no flying allowed in Central Park, anyway!
Yeah, I'm just wondering who answered "11 or more"...I'm sorry, it's just either a really daft interpretation of the question, or some alternate universe ....
Here in NYC, there is no flying allowed in Central Park, anyway!
I asked for clarification of AMA club or not, since on any given parkflyer-friendly day I can drive by a couple of locations where some local park flyers gather, that is not an AMA club site, and see planes in the air.
How many people really notice whats going on in a park or school yard they may pass by, and how many fields are there that people don't pass on a daily basis?
Just because you don't pass by daily and see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. (If a tree falls in the woods...)
Of course, if isn't allowed or doesn't occur in NYC then surely it can't be taking place!
#38
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
Let's not forget that I could be flying a small electric plane under 100 feet in altitude within 200 feet of you. If you are on the other side of a building, trees or some ohther site barrier you would probably never know. I could even be on the other end of a football field flying a plane 200 feet in the air. If you don't notice me, or don't happen to see the plane in the sky, you could be in plain site and not see.
These small electrics are typically very quiet and somewhat small.
After all, isn't that part of the attraction of small electrics?
These small electrics are typically very quiet and somewhat small.
After all, isn't that part of the attraction of small electrics?
#39
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
"I think you have provided the parkflyer solution, ET....or rather shown the solution is that there is no solution needed because there is no problem. "
EXACTLY.
"No problem not just because park flyers don't see any problem, but more so because there are no park flyers. How elegant. "
No, there are some park flyers. But I think the fear of park flyers is quite exaggerated.
"BTW, has it occurred to you that what you see in your environs may not be typical of the rest of the country? "
No. I have a place upstate, too, I am there quite often. It's in the country. I also visit the suburbs.
"After all, NYC is something of an alternate universe in its own right. "
That's true!
" Like, how many FF models have you seen in NYC in the past month?"
Let's see. A guy flying HLGs in central park. Competition style HLGs. Indoor flying, lots of it, at the Teaneck Armory. Indoor FF at the Museum at Floyd Bennet. Myself flying a Pee Wee powered Competition Models B-70 upstate. Myself and my daughter flying skeeters and sleek streeks in Manhattan parks. There is a lot of FF going on up at Wawayanda, but I have not visited recently. FF is pretty rare nowadays, no matter WHERE you live. But that's how many I have seen in the past month.
How about turbines?
About half a dozen, Floyd Bennet is pretty much the only place to fly turbines around here, unless you have a private field you can access, I have that, too. I fly turbines a bit, too, I might see more than most, less than some.
For that matter how many model flying sites, period?
Four or five. Floyd Bennet, Moonachie, Thomas Bull upstate, and one more upstate where they mostly fly helis, plus a private airport.
I also saw a lot of soccer fields and such, and most of the park flyers I see are either at a club field, or they gather at a few places with some sort of casual organization, like "let's all meet at the ballfield thursdays." What I don't see is a lot of guys flying solo at "bootleg" fields on 72. I used to, a lot, when I was younger, flying gliders and schoolyard scale, but sooner than later, most guys (flying gas, anyway) want to go to a field where they cannot get kicked out, or they don't have people walking right into the landing zone to play frisbee.
I like park flyers well enough, I think they are nothing but great for the hobby. I have had various park flyers. As a modeller, they are not very interesting to me, but others seem to enjoy them, and when I go to my club fields, I don't really have any fear of being shot down by them. I worry more about the club guy who forgot to get the pin.
If guys want to fly park flyers and not join AMA, it's fine by me. If they start with the park flyers and end up moving on to more complicated stuff and want to join AMA, that's great, too. If they were former AMA members and they decide they want to drop their membership and just fly park flyers down at the schoolyard, that's fine, too. I don't see the problem.
Just my two cents, it's not empirical data that can be construed as "fact", it's just one guy's opinion. Best o' luck!
Abel
#40
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ET-
Glad you have a retreat upstate. From my perspective, if you have to live in NYC that's what it takes to make you human!
Actually, I'm envious. I grew up at (and often on and in) Lake Delta, a wide spot in the Mohawk River N of Rome. Family has been there since the only neighbors were Mohawks. Great area, lots of wide open country anywhere N of there. Spent many hours in my youth flying all over the northern tier with my dad in Cubs, Luscombes and a Temco Swift, often without seeing another airplane all day except when buzzing a buddy's hunting camp strip or stopping at Canastota for lunch. Plan to visit my brother on Grindstone Island this fall. For him, 'upstate' is Canada, about 300 yards N of his house. Nice big airstrip on the island - have to see what R/C models I can pack with me!
Abel
Glad you have a retreat upstate. From my perspective, if you have to live in NYC that's what it takes to make you human!
Actually, I'm envious. I grew up at (and often on and in) Lake Delta, a wide spot in the Mohawk River N of Rome. Family has been there since the only neighbors were Mohawks. Great area, lots of wide open country anywhere N of there. Spent many hours in my youth flying all over the northern tier with my dad in Cubs, Luscombes and a Temco Swift, often without seeing another airplane all day except when buzzing a buddy's hunting camp strip or stopping at Canastota for lunch. Plan to visit my brother on Grindstone Island this fall. For him, 'upstate' is Canada, about 300 yards N of his house. Nice big airstrip on the island - have to see what R/C models I can pack with me!
Abel
#41
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
Hey Abel...I went flying off Lake Delta last year! Small world...
We used to fly at Griffiss, but that's another story[:@][:'(] (politics, need I say more?! )
Anyway...I'm the club's "electric guy" (sounds like a comic book character ) and fly my Tribute in St. John's parking lot, usually at night. Also have a Mini Funtana, GWS Zero, Slow Stick, etc. etc.
I have never seen anyone except a few fellow club members actually flying another "park Flyer" and that's always at our field (now in Westmoreland )
I hear stories at the LHS of young guys (who usually drive r/c monster trucks ) saying they've tried flying something like a Firebird, or one of those other cheap little things and it usually ends up in pieces, or stuck in a tree, etc.
Personally, I think (big sign that says "opinion" here ) that there are a lot of guys that are exaggerating the "threat" (?) of so called "park flyers" and don't like change, or the whole idea of electric power in the first place.
There are a few old die hards in our clubs that think elec. powered airplanes are effeminate or "not real airplanes" (whatever that means ) but they're entitled to their opinions too, aye?!
We used to fly at Griffiss, but that's another story[:@][:'(] (politics, need I say more?! )
Anyway...I'm the club's "electric guy" (sounds like a comic book character ) and fly my Tribute in St. John's parking lot, usually at night. Also have a Mini Funtana, GWS Zero, Slow Stick, etc. etc.
I have never seen anyone except a few fellow club members actually flying another "park Flyer" and that's always at our field (now in Westmoreland )
I hear stories at the LHS of young guys (who usually drive r/c monster trucks ) saying they've tried flying something like a Firebird, or one of those other cheap little things and it usually ends up in pieces, or stuck in a tree, etc.
Personally, I think (big sign that says "opinion" here ) that there are a lot of guys that are exaggerating the "threat" (?) of so called "park flyers" and don't like change, or the whole idea of electric power in the first place.
There are a few old die hards in our clubs that think elec. powered airplanes are effeminate or "not real airplanes" (whatever that means ) but they're entitled to their opinions too, aye?!
#42
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: proptop
Hey Abel...I went flying off Lake Delta last year! Small world...
We used to fly at Griffiss, but that's another story[:@][:'(] (politics, need I say more?! )
Anyway...I'm the club's "electric guy" (sounds like a comic book character ) and fly my Tribute in St. John's parking lot, usually at night. Also have a Mini Funtana, GWS Zero, Slow Stick, etc. etc.
I have never seen anyone except a few fellow club members actually flying another "park Flyer" and that's always at our field (now in Westmoreland )
I hear stories at the LHS of young guys (who usually drive r/c monster trucks ) saying they've tried flying something like a Firebird, or one of those other cheap little things and it usually ends up in pieces, or stuck in a tree, etc.
Personally, I think (big sign that says "opinion" here ) that there are a lot of guys that are exaggerating the "threat" (?) of so called "park flyers" and don't like change, or the whole idea of electric power in the first place.
There are a few old die hards in our clubs that think elec. powered airplanes are effeminate or "not real airplanes" (whatever that means ) but they're entitled to their opinions too, aye?!
Hey Abel...I went flying off Lake Delta last year! Small world...
We used to fly at Griffiss, but that's another story[:@][:'(] (politics, need I say more?! )
Anyway...I'm the club's "electric guy" (sounds like a comic book character ) and fly my Tribute in St. John's parking lot, usually at night. Also have a Mini Funtana, GWS Zero, Slow Stick, etc. etc.
I have never seen anyone except a few fellow club members actually flying another "park Flyer" and that's always at our field (now in Westmoreland )
I hear stories at the LHS of young guys (who usually drive r/c monster trucks ) saying they've tried flying something like a Firebird, or one of those other cheap little things and it usually ends up in pieces, or stuck in a tree, etc.
Personally, I think (big sign that says "opinion" here ) that there are a lot of guys that are exaggerating the "threat" (?) of so called "park flyers" and don't like change, or the whole idea of electric power in the first place.
There are a few old die hards in our clubs that think elec. powered airplanes are effeminate or "not real airplanes" (whatever that means ) but they're entitled to their opinions too, aye?!
Good to hear from a hometown boy! Your mention of Griffiss AFB brings on a lot of nostalgia. My neighbor/mentor was an RADC engineer that steered me to a career in elex eng, and the priest at St. Johns was my dad's best flying bud, and my marryin' man. Had a lot of buds that were USAF. A Buff aircrew was always on alert to fly to the Azores and fetch a couple of cases of Mateus for parties at my place. Some jocks flew F104s, which the pilot 'wore' and there wasn't enough room left for a piddle pack. There was however just precisely enough room for an 80 lb teenaged girlfriend. Unfortunately, my girlfriend but not my airplane! I saw my first model airplane at a Griffiss open house, a ukie with a Drone diesel engine. Been hooked ever since.
BTW, OT as to model airplanes, but does Westmoreland VFD still have a lavender fire truck? Pretty kinky, but kinky has always held an atraction - maybe that's why I'm partial to the 'leckie 3D PFs too.
Abel
#43
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
ET-
Glad you have a retreat upstate. From my perspective, if you have to live in NYC that's what it takes to make you human!
Actually, I'm envious. I grew up at (and often on and in) Lake Delta, a wide spot in the Mohawk River N of Rome. Family has been there since the only neighbors were Mohawks. Great area, lots of wide open country anywhere N of there. Spent many hours in my youth flying all over the northern tier with my dad in Cubs, Luscombes and a Temco Swift, often without seeing another airplane all day except when buzzing a buddy's hunting camp strip or stopping at Canastota for lunch. Plan to visit my brother on Grindstone Island this fall. For him, 'upstate' is Canada, about 300 yards N of his house. Nice big airstrip on the island - have to see what R/C models I can pack with me!
Abel
ET-
Glad you have a retreat upstate. From my perspective, if you have to live in NYC that's what it takes to make you human!
Actually, I'm envious. I grew up at (and often on and in) Lake Delta, a wide spot in the Mohawk River N of Rome. Family has been there since the only neighbors were Mohawks. Great area, lots of wide open country anywhere N of there. Spent many hours in my youth flying all over the northern tier with my dad in Cubs, Luscombes and a Temco Swift, often without seeing another airplane all day except when buzzing a buddy's hunting camp strip or stopping at Canastota for lunch. Plan to visit my brother on Grindstone Island this fall. For him, 'upstate' is Canada, about 300 yards N of his house. Nice big airstrip on the island - have to see what R/C models I can pack with me!
Abel
#44
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
The contrast is quite incredible, though...right from here, looking out the window at the Empire State Building, to communing with cows, is only an hour's drive.
The contrast is quite incredible, though...right from here, looking out the window at the Empire State Building, to communing with cows, is only an hour's drive.
#45
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
Yeah Abel, we were flying on SAC hill where they used to park the BUFFs until the local politicians decided to build a 907,000 sq. ft. Family Dollar store distribution center ...It's a good/bad thing, ya know? Good to see something being done w/ the base after it was closed in'95 but bad cuz we lost out flyin' site![:'(]
Anyway...I'm the club's (RAAM , Rome Academy of Aero Modeling ) VP and I'm working w/ a ret. Col. on a program with the AF Junior ROTC at the new Rome Free Academy high school. We are starting about 25 cadets on sims and then I'm going to get 'em going on small electrics. I did a demo in the gym w/ a lite stik and slow stik right after X-mas...
We're (the club ) working on a PR program to get some public interest going and to see if we can get some (other ) politicians on our side to get a new flying site. The one in Westmoreland is a different club (Firebirds ) and we really need something closer to Rome, especially if we're talking about a bunch of kids who don't have regular transportation...
Anyway...I'm the club's (RAAM , Rome Academy of Aero Modeling ) VP and I'm working w/ a ret. Col. on a program with the AF Junior ROTC at the new Rome Free Academy high school. We are starting about 25 cadets on sims and then I'm going to get 'em going on small electrics. I did a demo in the gym w/ a lite stik and slow stik right after X-mas...
We're (the club ) working on a PR program to get some public interest going and to see if we can get some (other ) politicians on our side to get a new flying site. The one in Westmoreland is a different club (Firebirds ) and we really need something closer to Rome, especially if we're talking about a bunch of kids who don't have regular transportation...
#47
RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
I actually can only think of the one time I have seen a parkflyer. One day I was flying my shockflier in a park and a guy came out and started flying his GWS tigermoth. This surprises me. A friend of mine works at my LHS. He said they have sold hundreds of aerobird's and yet I have never seen one flying.
#48
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
We were talking today at the lhs, and just out of curiosity I asked the owner how many Firebirds he's sold...He looked it up on the computer/inventory and it was somewhere around 200 of all the different types...
I've only ever seen the 1 my brother bought fly...
I've only ever seen the 1 my brother bought fly...
#50
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RE: How many park flyers have YOU seen?
ORIGINAL: proptop
We were talking today at the lhs, and just out of curiosity I asked the owner how many Firebirds he's sold...He looked it up on the computer/inventory and it was somewhere around 200 of all the different types...
I've only ever seen the 1 my brother bought fly...
We were talking today at the lhs, and just out of curiosity I asked the owner how many Firebirds he's sold...He looked it up on the computer/inventory and it was somewhere around 200 of all the different types...
I've only ever seen the 1 my brother bought fly...
Abel