joey_d1119

Its clubs fault not the AMA'sWho cares who flies what. It's about heli's, jets, RTF, ARF's, Foamies, prototypes, the basic trainers, Young and Old. A lot of you guys are so emotional when it comes to different kinds of aircraft other then yours. The AMA only cost 58 dollars a year. You guys ***** about the cost keeping people away? Any kid that has the money to buy a parkflyer or any RTF has parents that gave that money to him to buy it. The people that are holding people back from joining are the old guys who hang at the field and ***** and complain about other pilots..the guys who act like they know it all but they don't. Its these guys that are running the clubs that are responsible for the decline in membership. Why would a 22 year old college student like me want to go to a club with a bunch of old men who only want a certain type of aircraft in their club? I don't. I want to hang out with guys that don't care who flys what. For some reason the leaders of RC flying clubs are old men who have a huge ego when it comes to the hobby. Don't blame the AMA. Go out and create a club that accepts anyone with any kind of aircraft. People don't say "oh, the AMA is 58 dollars a year...thats too much" they say "Man, whats up with these guys, I don't want to join the club....Im going to go fly on my own with a few buddies." Its the clubs responsibility to make sure people feel welcome and comfortable. If they do that people wouldnt have a problem joining the AMA. It's time people care more about the sport then their own personal narrow viewpoint on flying. You can go to many threads and hear hostility towards Park Flyers.....whats the point? The future of the sport, the clubs, and the AMA rest in the hands of the young kids with the parkflyers, and the foamies, and the "cheapo" planes. A lot of you guys give the impression that those I just described are some how not welcome, that it is a burden you must think about. Thats the feeling I get, and a lot of other people I have spoken to who decided not to join a club. Im sure I could say a lot more, but the point is that the problem is in the clubs not with the AMA.

rw Guinn

Interesting tirade there. Funny, I went out to my club today. They were having a fun combat day. All H.O.R. type $3.50 airplanes. Fast and furious action.
One guy narmally flies nothing but scale. Another, a 1/3 scale aero type. The others are mixed everything.
We also had a 2 guys with trainers and a heli fellow.
only one or two of them under 50 years old-and those 2 were like 10 and 30. All Having fun with different aircraft.
When Combat started, everybody watched.Amazing how all these old Fa%^s are all alike, huh?

Live Wire

Joey
I agree with part about the clubs being the problem , BUT what do you consider old. I like to see any thing fly no matter what it is or who it is but not all old follows are jerks. I used to chase combat planes with my C.G. Chippy, Loved to help people learn how to fly and furnished the plane and fuel now I'm the bad guy at 68.
I think I can guess the age groupe and they are younger than some people think

joey_d1119

I know there are great clubs out there. I didnt mean to come off like I was saying all clubs are like that. the the guy who responded first, I know there are great clubs like your out there. And I dont think age is the issue as much as guys who think they know everything. I just tend to see more of those kinds of people in older age groups, like upper 50's. They come in all ages though. I was just saying that the reason for decline is a strong presence of those types in the hobby.

joey_d1119

Your not the bad guy...there are a lot great "old timers" at my field among other great people that I fly with.

joey_d1119

...those types in the hobby and not the AMA.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

I just turned 41, and I can feel this effect coming over me, I am serious, but I do not understand it. It seems that as you get older you know more or you have a greater sense of mortality and you can see everything getting "shut down", maybe it is inevitable, I do not know.

I liken it to a high school party...you know it is going to get shut down, some people run around trying to get everyone to shut up before the neighbors call the cops, others try to have as much fun as possibly before the cops show up...seems that thought process carries on till old age I guess.

What I have found is that with a healthy dose of respect, a bridge can be built with the more seasomed members.....I only fly turbines (I have for the last 7 ot 8 years) so I know all about setting off the "older guys". By the same token, we have some REALLY cool older jet guys in SoCal that love all of the new technology, always have.

I say build the bridge, you will feel better for it in the end....

joey_d1119

I agree with you. Build a Bridge...I think its something both sides should consider. Dont get me wrong, I've never had a bad run in with anyone in the hobby. Im just talking about what I've seen and watched go on. If the younger crowd totally walks over the older crowd nothing will get fixed, the same if the older crowd doesnt listen to the younger crowd. Again, the AMA's job isnt getting people involved in the sport, its the clubs job. And building a bridge between all facets of RC flying needs to begin with the clubs. I know a lot of you have read this thread and thought its not somethign worth talking about, thats why only 6 of 75 have responded to it, but it is worth something to talk about. Sometimes, the truth hits ya. The clubs have to start fixing the problem with the decline in membership.

Hossfly

May I suggest you DUCK!

Just whom do you think built up the AMA membership? Who negotiated the flying facilities. Who brokered the memberships for AMA? Who does all the WORK to keep a Club going? Who gets the blame when a Club fails. The CLUBS have always been the sales force for AMA. Without the Clubs there would be no AMA memberships and NO AMA.

OTOH: Why do the Clubs need AMA? (Lots of reasons, not all just insurance) However, why does AMA think it owes so little to its sales force? Why does AMA think realms of restrictive rules need be made for the purposes of "risk management"?

Within all that, AMA does do one thing FOR the clubs. That one item is all AMA memberships are the same (except age classes which doesn't matter} and the calendar year is maintained. Without that, the paperwork at the Club Level would be many times multiplied for those modelers that are working their butts off to keep the Club within the boundaries now levied by AMA.

Next Act: here comes the young crowd, just away from mommy always having the milk in the refrigerator, and those older guys trying to keep a club together don't always say "yes, dear" to him/her so the old guys are, of course, a big problem.

Then by all means, go and start a new club. Negotiate a place to fly. Be as free with your choices as you wish. That is probably how the original club got started. IMO any Club has the right to restrict or be as open as the Club so votes to do.

Your concern is fine and sometimes wake-up calls do good things. For many years I lived in sub-divisions. I despise Home-Owners' Associations. I finally moved out in the country. Many times the work in up-keep but I am free of restrictions on what I do with my property. You can do the same with your new club.

Club volunteer officers spend countless hours of their hobby/sport time keeping a club going. Sometimes for the sake of the Club, they may have to be a bit on the firm side with various individuals, especially some that have some inner thing making them push the limits as far as they can. Get involved in the Club, WORK, politics, WORK, activities, and the WORK. There lies an opportunity to make a change.

Live Wire

Hoss
You have a lot of good input but not all people in this hobby have the property or the money to finance a new field, start a new club that they OWN and run the way they wish. There are a lot of people that have made their way in life the hard way and don't think the world owes them something. Yes there are a lot of people that love this hobby and Flying that are still trying to make it to where you are We all just put in our short time here on earth andtry to enjoy it[&o]
Yes for the good old day when a group of men went out to fly where ever they could find a place and get permission. We all had (HAVE) AMA but who cares as long as you have fun and fly safe. Now you are wondering who , when ,and where, because some one is looking to take your place at the flight line

joey_d1119

The hobby shouldnt have politics. Thats the first thing...in a hobby where people fly RC planes for the enjoyment of it politics should have no place. It's the uptight individuals who act in the restrictive way that they do that brings politics into the scene. It's a waste of time "politiking" in a hobby and a place where it should center around fun.

Crashem

AAAAH to be 22 again!!! Politics as you put it are a sad part of life. This is why it is important to try and find a club whose members share similar beliefs as you... yes there will still be politics but you all will be from the same "party"

Hossfly

Mr. Hawk: if you are implying that I think the world owes me something, then you are sadly mistaken. I don't know where you could have gotten such an idea. No one ever gave me anything and that was good as I learned to fend for myself. I'm a "L" of a long way from rich, I simply share what I have.
If you think I OWN my club then you don't have a clue there. The current President of Jetero RC, Inc. is a world wide name in FAI CL Combat, runs NATs events and FAI events, is a pusher in RC Combat, has a son that was World Champ IN FAI CLC, is a recently retired B-747 Captain, retired ANG Lt. Col., and moves like greased lightening. Believe me, NO ONE OWNS this person.[>:]
I never said anything about joey building a field. I said, "Negotiate a place to fly."
As far as making a way in life, I think I did. At 14 I was working in the Log Woods. At 17 I was working internationally out there in the ditches in the pipe-line industry.
At 20 I was a new Second Lt. with a set of wings on my chest. During half of my 20s I was sitting alert in one of four foreign countries loaded with thermo-nukes.

I would never have made it by sitting on my rear and waiting for someone else to do it for me.

Live Wire

Hoss
I apologize if I misread some of your posts that stated that you purchased land and turned part over to the club and carrying the paper on it till it is paid for. I have done my share in this hobby to but I don't have to keep telling every one what I've done every other post. After I die the hobby will still go on. and every one will still be P.Oed at each other and no one will win[:@]
Lets all go fly some where and cool off.

Jim Messer

My Feedback: (2)

Joey: You have a lot to learn, and you won't learn it from your peers. You will learn it from those that have been there and done that, and they are your elders. My parents taught me to respect my elders - no matter what, and that turned out to be excellent advice. Someday you too will be "old", and the shoe will be on the other foot.

When I was 11 years old I joined a model airplane club, and I was the youngest one there. Guess what - I am still a member of that same club, some 64 consecutive years later. If you can add 2 and 2, you can calculate my present age. Over the years I have held all the offices in this club that was organized in 1937 (68 years ago) and it is still going as strong as ever. But it isn't run by a bunch of kids, although kids are always welcome, and there are a few.

I fly models several times a week. BIG ones, small ones, and even high performance electrics. I am good at what I do. I design all my planes, and as one magazine editor stated "when JM designs a plane it flies like a bird". I teach the younger ones to design, build, and fly. I have a grandson and a nephew, both 15 years old, that are unbelieveable with a transmitter in their hands. They enjoy the hobby like I did when I was a kid.

That said, when I was a kid I had no money. However, one of the older club members was quite wealthy, and he would give me a new engine or kit, knowing that the only monies I had was what I could earn peddling papers, picking blackberries, mowing lawns, etc. Those monies kept me going, and it was greatly appreciated. It made me want to look up to all of the old guys, most of them now gone. I always figured they knew more than I did, and that was certainly true.

Today I am fairly well off, and I return those favors to both the kids and the adults in the club. I give things away to make the hobby more enjoyable for them - for example, last week I gave my grandson a brand new .60 Supertiger engine for his Four-Star 60 airplane. I cut kits for other club members, and give them away free. In the past 10 years these fellow club members have built 65 airplanes from my free kits, and these are all 1/4 scale and larger.

Joey - it really tees me off when guys like you (still wet behind the ears) take off on the older generations. We're not the bad apple in the mix - you are! My advice to you is to "wake up". Show some respect, and try to be the listener instead of the talker. You just might happen to learn something from those you are bashing.

the-plumber

Would you be so kind as to reference a hobby involving any sort of technology which does not also have political over- or under-tones ?

Ham radio ? No way.

SCCA ? Wrong.

The 'other' hobby AMA, the two-wheel crowd ? Fulla hot air and politics.

Farther down the food chain - Soap Box Derby and Little League . . . talk about foaming-at-the-mouth "Soccer-Mom" politics !!!

If a club has more than three members, politics will be involved any time the three don't act with one mind, period.

I hold membership in three local clubs, one which boasts 296 members, the second has about 90, and the third is down around 50.

The large club is rife with politics, but that is probably as it should be because the flying site is on county property and that situation brings with it enough political maneuvering to fill several bushel baskets per month. This club is large enough that the 10% of the club members who will help with field days and field maintenance are enough to get the job done.

The flying site boasts a paved fixed-wing runway and almost full-length sun shelters, a large heli flying area on the opposite side of the entry road (facing the other direction) with it's own sun shelters, and _2_ Ukie circles. Over time the club has improved the facilities (indoor restrooms, for example) and has made a serious investment in preserving and maintaing the flying site.

This [link=http://www.ccrc.info/]particular club[/link] is 12th largest in AMA based on current membership

The second largest club doesn't have too much political activity, and the officers have been carried over for second and third terms by voice vote and because they like what they're doing (the officers like the doing and the members like the results).

The runway is approximately 100' X 600', and flat as a putting green. The overflight area is so large that anything under quarter-scale can get too far away for safe flying but is still over club property. It's a _large_ flying site. See the flying site [link=http://bcmarc.com/photogallery/BCMA%20Proof%202.jpg]aerial view.[/link]

Still, politics rears it's ugly head just because in a group that large the old 10% rule implies 9 or 10 hard-heads who simply can't or won't. Can't bring themselves to help on Field Day, or won't because they think that their dues is all they need to contribute to maintaining a 100-odd acre flying site with permanent club house, underground sprinkler system, contract porta-john, and all the field maintenance equipment needed to keep the site up to snuff.

One of these "can't-won't" types showed up late in the day on April 3rd, a formally announced club project day when about 20 of us had worked nearly all day finishing out major projects (hanging two roll up doors and two entry doors on the club house, repairing the sprinkler system and the pump, etc.), proceeded to unload a heli from his H2 and launch the thing.

When he landed the club President walked over, had a few short words, and the "can't-won't" departed, cussing all the way about prima donnas taking over the club.

On project day at that club, flying is verboten, period. On this particular project day the last three of us finally headed home after dark, so there was no after-project flying to be done.

The smallest of the three clubs is barely making ends meet, field-wise. Yes there is an asphalt runway, but it's a vestige of the club's former glory days. Yes there's a sun shelter, but it's in dire straits. The access road is almost passable in dry weather, and the wild raspberry and blackberry jungle makes finding a downed model a painful chore.

The difference between these three clubs is that the smallest, and least successful, chose to 'ban' politics several years ago, along with all but one formal event per year (New Year's Day Chili Fly). No one ever 'runs for office'. When the Vice President was transferred out of state, a replacement was appointed and he promptly resigned his membership.

The upshot is that very little is done to keep the field maintained, and since the flying site is also on county property (between the State Juvenile Detention Facility and three major trucking terminals) the county is threatening to turn the place over to "soccer Mom's" unless the clubs takes an interest in preserving the site for model aircraft operation. The modus of this club is that the members just want to pay their dues and fly, period. The [link=http://www.atlrcclub.com/]web site [/link] has an aerial photo, under "Field Info".

The dues differential between these three clubs is every bit of ten bucks a year.

I doubt that you'd have much trouble figuring out which of these three clubs you'd prefer to join, but each of them has a few Olde Phartes who build and own Hangar Queens and who dispense sage wisdom without being consulted and who spout mythical nonsense rules ad nauseam.

If you can't deal with the odd BSA now and then, you probably should take up quilting and leave technohobbies to those with skins a bit thicker.

OTOH, I can offer one retort I stole from someone else a long time ago . . . when he was confronted by a field grump (which is different from a Field Nazi safety-type) about something or other, this old friend told the grump (in words to the effect that) "I'm going to fly my model anyway, and I'm going to have extra fun doing it since I now know that in so doing I will manage to pi$$ you off in spades."

My own adage is that I didn't get this grey hair out of a bottle, I _earned it_, and I learned a great many things in the process, not the least of which is that Bill Cosby was quite correct when he opined that teen-agers are brain damaged.

If what you're doing is 'legal' under club rules go right ahead and burn up some fuel. Leave the angst to the dopes who can't or won't.

EDITED : Fat-fingering

rcmiket

Anytime you get 2 or more people in the same space your bound to have 2 different points of view. What makes you think that a R/C Club is any different? We all have a point of view what you see as "old guys wanting the same type of planes" is just how you see it. Have they told you to pack up and go play elsewhere? Most of the old hands I've run across are pretty good about checking out the new and different. In this world of instant everthing the younger crowd has more to entertain themselves than we ever had (I'm 52). How can you say the its the Clubs fault for the decline in membership? Its never going change. Your 22 how many of your friends have you brought to the field? Are you willing to teach someone how to fly? Before you lay blame or claim to know why, look right in the mirror. - Good Luck and welcome to the " real world" Oh ya and I wish the AMA would take more intrest in the decline in membership instead of all the crap they come up with. Mike

joey_d1119

I am not disrespecting my elders. Not at all, In fact I think people my age should reach out and embrace the older generation. I said that this type of behavior comes from both sides...that there needs to be a bridge built. However, that does not mean I am not free to voice my opinion on the "elders." Some of them do act in such a way that is less then respectful as do many people my age. I do have a lot to learn, but it does not make my point invalid. The problem is with the clubs for the membership decline, not the AMA.

joey_d1119

I've brought about 5 of my buddies to the field to see pylon races, two more I've taken to the park to fly my parkflyer, and I got some other buddies together to go down to the hobby show in the OC next month. So I do my part to bring people to RC flying. My girlfriend thinks its pretty cool to.

joey_d1119

I agree with you all that politics will be a given in the club. My thing is, is that it should be left at the club meetings and should have no place on the field. Of course people will argue, and debate etc. in the clubs, but leave that for buisness, and come together on the field.

joey_d1119

Im not bashing anyone. I never said old people are stupid and have nothing to offer. Older people should respect the younger crowd just as much as the younger crowd should respect the older crowd. I do respect my elders. Im working with one if them building my new plane!

When I say elder I dont mean "old people"...if you read this Mike[8D]

Live Wire

joey
Hange in there a lot of people do not read all the posts and respond accordingly. There are many ways to read a post and the thing is to try to live with the answers you get because you have the same people here that you have in clubs and at the flying field

Hossfly

Again, in my advice to joey, I never mentioned what I did, just what he COULD do. I don't expect anyone else to follow my steps. I hope I never have to fill the foot-prints of a so many that have done so very much more.

That is wonderful. You do as you please as I will continue to do as I please. Actually, this forum is kind of like the beginners' forum where the same question surfaces about every 72 hours.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Joey,
Are you talking about one club in particular? Would it be the SF Valley Flyers or the Giant Scale Squadron? Excuse me for assuming but I'm guessing that those are the only two clubs you would have had contact with so which is it? If it's the Giant Scale there is a wealth of information with those guys but the average age is pretty high. I read a quote from a member of the Valley Flyers that when he joined thirty years ago he was the average age and he still is today. I have never felt that they shun other types of flying and the older guys made it possible for us to fly at the Basin today. When I see Gene S. I carry his plane out of respect for everything he has done for us at the Basin not to mention the country.

So I guess what I am saying is I don't understand where you got the idea that the older club members are making younger folks feel unwelcome. If you have specifics please speak up but it seems you are just generalizing here.

Ask around at the Basin for me on the North end of the pits in the afternoon and we can discuss it in person.

Richard aka Basin Bum

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

joey,

All you can do is build your own bridge, and hope everyone else will do the same. It won't happen, because people are hard-headed and opinionated, but maybe by your shining example, you might convince one or two others to follow suit. Then each of those might convince one or two others to do the same. It's the best you can do. Pontificating on the subject and saying that we HAVE to do such-and-such is counterproductive. People don't like being told what they HAVE to do, and when you do, they will resist with all their might no matter what.