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To Rule, or Not To Rule?

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Old 06-04-2005, 09:44 AM
  #1  
runner
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Default To Rule, or Not To Rule?

At a local club of about 300 members, the leaders have made a decision that seems like an accident waiting to happen.

This club is almost three clubs in one. There is a goup of retired members that fly only on Tuesdays & Thursdays, another group of retirees that fly only on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays and then the working class that fly on Saturdays and Sundays. The members that fly during the week so not like to use the impound and the weekend guys always do.

According to the AMA rules, all members agree to abide by the rules of the club where they fly. Posted on this club's website, it states that the impound must always be used.

The leadership of this club has decided to let the members present on any particular day vote and decide if they will use the transmitter impound.


What is your opinion on this matter?
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Old 06-04-2005, 09:49 AM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

sounds a plan to me.
aint democracy grand>G<
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Old 06-04-2005, 10:40 AM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?


ORIGINAL: runner

//SNIP//
According to the AMA rules, all members agree to abide by the rules of the club where they fly. Posted on this club's website, it states that the impound must always be used.

The leadership of this club has decided to let the members present on any particular day vote and decide if they will use the transmitter impound.

What is your opinion on this matter?

Just my OPINION based only on the information YOU provide:

1. If current club rules require the use of the impound, then the impound should be used.
A. The club rules CAN be changed in. Such change should be in accordance with the provisions of the Club's Bylaws
or however the Club is so organized.
B. A Club should be run by the desires of the majority of the membership.

2. If the Club Officers change Safety rules, then the Club Officers accept and are responsible for any liability.

3. Having such rules that change with the day will lead to confusion by the square of the daily changes. Good habits
will disappear quickly. Bad habits will multiply even more rapidly.

4. Funny Parallel: Back in the '70s I belonged to a club near Chicagoland. We leased the site. There were no fences or
such protecting the "Pit" area. Several of us wished to establish a fence. One more 'senior' member, a GREAT builder
was very opposed to the fence. Luck favored both of us. A pilot lost control of a rather large and fast model (.60 size --
big back then) which did some somersaults over three of 'senior's' best models. How it missed them is beyond
comprehension. WELL, GUESS whose mind changed real quick? he was right out there in the labor force building
that fence.
Let one of those "No Impound" dunces lose a beautiful airplane and you will see the pendulum swing.

5. If the day's vote is close and a short-side voter loses an airplane, there could be litigation. All long-side voters could be
at risk. (NOT an AMA Insurance item)

6. Finally, the Club's officers are simply copping out.

That's my story and I might even stick to it.
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Old 06-04-2005, 11:20 AM
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Red Scholefield
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

If frequency control, ie the frequency board is being used I see little reason to use the impound. Unless the impound is actually manned by someone responsible for making sure the transmitter is off and the right transmitter his handed out or picked up it is of little real use.


Since so many transmitters look alike one could pick up the wrong transmitter from the impound and turn it on thinking it was his own. If the transmitter is kept near the individuals field box or wherever he normally keeps it then it is his responsibility and his alone. If he leaves it on by accident and does not have the frequency pin then he is liable.

Our frequency impound is used only for scheduled events.
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Old 06-04-2005, 12:56 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

How difficult is it to use the impound? If it's just 1 or 2 guys, the inclination is to not bother with it. But then other guys could trickle in, and if someone shows up who wants to use it, then it must be used. We are all responsible for our conditions that we work and play in. You can try to legislate common sense, but why not just let common sense prevail? Have the old guys who meet during the week been shooting each other down? You could also make the rule conditional, over 5 guys, and it must be used.
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Old 06-04-2005, 03:38 PM
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Jim Messer
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

We have an impound but we don't use it. Everyone is responsible for himself, and knows others on his/her frequency. Upon arrival at the field, the pilot first goes to the pin board. If his pin is there, he takes it, puts his AMA card in the slot, and then proceedes to assemble his airplane, and flys. If another person comes later, on that same frequency, he notes that the pin is missing, and he knows who has it because of the AMA card in the slot. That person then goes to the one with the pin and says, "Hey- we have to share the pin today".

This system works: In the last five years we have not had any incidents. Except one - when the impound was being used: The pilot sent his helper, and told him to get his transmitter, #19. The helper thought he meant channel 19, so he grabbed the 19 pin but the transmitter was on some other frequency. It only took about a minute before the "shoot-down".

An impound is only good if there is someone there to manage it - who checks to see that the pin always matches the transmitter. Tha's not usually the case in day to day flying.

I suggest for you to change the rules and make the impound optional. For those that want to use it - go ahead. For those that don't, don't fight them. Only the man with the frequency pin has the authority to turn on his transmitter, and it doesn't matter where it is located.

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Old 06-04-2005, 04:44 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

Another fact I forgot to mention, during the weekdays, the pilot may or may not return the frequency pin to the board after their flight. A lot of the time, it is left on their transmitter until they are ready to fly again. If another person wants to fly, they may have to search the flight line for the frequency pin before flying. If the impound is used, this problem would go away.

I appreciate the responses so far. For the guys that do not use an impound at their field, may I ask how many members are in their club and how busy is the flight line? How many pilots are at the field on most days?
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Old 06-04-2005, 04:52 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

Common sense rules here......... Most people put a card up "just to be sure". I for one don't see a problem.-Mike
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:33 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

If someone is holding the pin, you do what we used to do back in the old days when people HAD to talk to each other face to face, to make things happen. This old skill was way before drive up banking, drive up fast food, pharmacy, liquor, shopping at home, internet chat rooms, etc., it was called, " CONVERSATION[X(]" It can be done nicely, even with a slight poke in the ribs, and the guy who is hogging the pin will always be happy to give it up. Go ahead, give it a try!
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:21 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

That's my story and I might even stick to it.
Maybe I won't stick to it. [8D] Using the impound implies to me that a frequency clip / pin system, etc., is in use, not necessarily "manned". If the transmitter is on the field, then a clip needs to be on it with person identification in the channel slot, or wherever the clip comes from.

As Red stated, site manned during events. As Jim M. said to me that is using an impound as long as no transmitter without a clip is on the field.

I started flying RC back in about 1970. I have never flown at a regular RC site where there was not some form of frequency control, both understood and used by the fliers. Surely don't want to start now.[X(]

Here is a system.

Edited to add: Yes I know the HAMs are 00 -- 09 vice 1 -- 10. When they want to redo it they can. 9 years now and no redo. Na' muh probleem! And the place is messy because we were installing additional lights that day.[>:]
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Old 06-04-2005, 10:12 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

Contrary to popular belief, more rules does not mean safer. Nor do more rules make it work better.

That all being said, about the only thing that needs to happen is that all persons at the site on any given day agree on which system to use. Put a bord up, red for no impound and white for impound in use; or some such.

I fly in places where there is no impound, where there is an impound, and places where there is no impound or frequency board. We talk.

If you find a better way, please share it.
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Old 06-04-2005, 11:12 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

At our club we have a board, but no impound that i know of. The first thing they told me when i joined is if you shoot someone down it is your fault no matter what and you pay. So i will be extremely careful with that.
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Old 06-05-2005, 07:25 AM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

Conversation, face to face. What a great idea. Mike
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Old 06-06-2005, 04:03 PM
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Mike in DC
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

Runner, it sounds like everybody uses frequency control, but the weekday guys don't put their transmitters in the impound when they are not flying. That sounds to me like most clubs. Personally, the only time I put my transmitter in the impound is when there is someone at the field on the same frequency. It's really just to cover my behind. If the guy crashes, I want him to be able to see my transmitter sitting in the impound with the power off. If there is nobody on my frequency, I keep my transmitter with me in the pit (but my card is reserving the frequency), as does most everybody else most of the time. With a group of close friends, they probably are not particularly worried about their behinds, thus no use of the impound.

I think everything's cool, let it go.
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Old 06-06-2005, 04:53 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

Standard Operating Procedures are designed so that we all behave the same way. The idea is to make us, the human element interchangeable parts. If we all act the same way, we can fly any day, with any group and we all know and understand what other people are doing.
The point isn't weather or not to use the impound area. The point is everyone is not interchangeable. A pilot doesn't know what to expect. A pilot doesn't know how to behave.
So this issue is more important than it may appear at first. You can adopt the behavior of the day. Or you can continue to use the impound area regardless of the day. Perhaps set a good example. And perhaps mention to the guys that the procedure is perhaps the most important safety procedure at the club. It protects property and liability and hard feelings and disputes. You are most likely within feet of the impound area anyway. There is no good reason not to use it. And impounds generally provide shade for the electronics . You might even insist upon it. Sometimes people just need a gentle reminder to do things that they already know are right. Hey guys, lets use the impound, it makes me feel more comfortable.
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Old 06-06-2005, 08:22 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

Do you fly when the other people fly and the times they do or is it you want to change every thing to what you want. If there is no problem with the people that fly on their special night or day why cause a stink ENjoy what you have and let others enjoy what they have!!! If they interfir with your day then do your *****ing.
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Old 06-06-2005, 09:03 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

?
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Old 06-06-2005, 09:15 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

Sorry Guyes what a mess![:@]
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Old 06-06-2005, 09:24 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

If it is going to happen to any one you can bet it will happen to th OUT Law
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Old 06-06-2005, 10:50 PM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

Kingwoodbarney,

I agree with you. The rules should be the same all of the time for all members. Less confusion that way.
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Old 06-07-2005, 08:25 AM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

I think it's one of those things where if it works, it will work, if not a few people will loose some airplanes and the rule will be re-evaluated. Keep an eye out until then. It may take care of itself, jut try to make sure it's not at your expense. Some times people learn the hard way and some times that's what it takes.
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:57 AM
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Default RE: To Rule, or Not To Rule?

You know how when someone in particular starts up their plane and everyone lands? Well, it might be that when certain people show up you just use the impound... I've flown at large clubs and small ones, but never a club on a day-to-day basis where I couldn't look down the flightline and see everyone, even walk down and find the pin within five minutes.

Even after I find the pin I still ask, "Is anyone on channel XX?" That keeps everyone in the loop! Frequency accidents might happen, but not if I can help it!

When another guy pulls up at the field usually about five guys turn around and ask, "What channel are you on?" I guess we're paranoid or something. If you know who's on your channel you'll know who to keep an eye on, and they will too. I like the "conversation" idea, works wonders.
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