Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > AMA Discussions
Reload this Page >

Risk Takers?

Notices
AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

Risk Takers?

Old 06-13-2005, 07:14 PM
  #26  
Hossfly
 
Hossfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Caney, TX
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?


ORIGINAL: kingwoodbarney

What is a low pass anyway ? Under 30 feet ? 10 feet ? 100 feet ? With a rundway 50 feet wide and the pilot stations 30 feet from the runway, is a low pass dangerous ? It could be made 80 feet from any person. Is 50 feet up safer than 80 feet in front of you ?
I don't understand the reasoning.

How about "LANDING".........pause......"MISSED APPROACH".

Well now, Barney Ol' Pard< it almost like you're trying to call me out![>:]

Jetero's rules say; "5.Do not make High-Speed Low Passes over the runway, when any other pilot station is occupied."

That rule was decided many years ago to be a safe and sane rule. It's not new. Certainly there are many ways to question what is what. In the long run, no one gets called if the pass is fairly high. Landing approaches are normally slow and a go-around sometimes must be made. A couple of those go-arounds, especially if initiated at the end of the runway, and not climbing out at a decent angle will probably get one a call. Definition of low pass; hard to say, but anything distracting my attention from my airplane will get whomever a few words, jest at first, but serious before the 3rd strike. [:-]

Maybe you were not into ATC when the first arrival routings were brought into play, followed by the canned departure routes. These ATC Rules are made for one reason only and that is for the lowest denominator ATC controller. They definitely impede arrivals and departures, creating untold airline delays when some Thunder-Bumps are moving through. Controllers have no real authority to route aircraft off the canned routings and through the great amount of available airspace. (I was flying jets when we went all over the country VFR-OT at ALL altitudes.) So that routing/sector gets shut down and up-line machines hold at the gate. Total waste of time, fuel, and scheduling.

Likewise, a well managed RC Club will have rules geared for the lowest denominator solo qualified pilot. Certainly, like the ATC rules, stringent field rules will edge in on some hot-rock's fun, and possibly delay the showing-off, "Looka' me," mentality, yet it will keep the majority safe while indicating due-diligence performance by those in charge.
BTW, I was starting an engine near the flight line some years ago. A visiting pilot lost a .46 P-51 on a show-off maneuver. It poked a hole a foot deep about 2 ft. behind my back after a fig.9 inverted dive about a foot over my head. [X(]
Just recently another excellent pilot was going to make that low inverted pass with a gas-burner P-47 (about 3 years of show/contest flying with it} but *wham-mo* confetti over an area 100 x 80 or abouts. Could have been into the pits.

That is why our club prohibits over the runway low passes and 3D maneuvering, WHEN another pilot-station is occupied. Fortunately we have a lot of that time.
We are also fortunate to have some 3000 ft. across the runway of low cut coastal-bermuda hay to fly over. If I had my say nothing other than approaches, landings, and take-offs would EVER be flown OVER the runway.
What others do at their facilities is THEIR business. At our club it is OUR business.
Old 06-13-2005, 11:24 PM
  #27  
TimChurch
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

Wow there is something going on here. What I don't know. But if you people did not see the anti 3d in in the June issue, You are the blind ones. The attacks on crash99 is a show of force. But why?

--- I'll go to the field check everybody's skill level and then fly according to how good the other people watching can fly. ----NOT

You people need to open your eyes. It is not the first anti 3d thing from the AMA, it is a on going issue with the AMA now. And It not only D.B. there are others in the AMA that are against 3d and have stated it.
Old 06-13-2005, 11:47 PM
  #28  
TexasAirBoss
My Feedback: (22)
 
TexasAirBoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

[quote]ORIGINAL: Hossfly



Maybe you were not into ATC when the first arrival routings were brought into play, followed by the canned departure routes. These ATC Rules are made for one reason only and that is for the lowest denominator ATC controller. They definitely impede arrivals and departures, creating untold airline delays when some Thunder-Bumps are moving through. Controllers have no real authority to route aircraft off the canned routings and through the great amount of available airspace. (I was flying jets when we went all over the country VFR-OT at ALL altitudes.) So that routing/sector gets shut down and up-line machines hold at the gate. Total waste of time, fuel, and scheduling.




Hossfly,
When weather runs from Austin to Chicago and every transcontinental flight makes the end run over San Antonio, I can't speak to 500 planes at once. About 40 is the limit. That means it will take nearly 4 hours for everyone to pass through. There is barely time to say hello and good bye. No one has time to re-issue routings. So you sit at the gate in Atlanta waiting for your turn to talk to me. Canada won't take you and niether will Monterey .Remember, the system is a manual one. Airspace isn't the issue. The issue is how fast can barney speak. Thats right. The limiting factor in the NAS's capacity is communication.
What is even worse, all of those planes, no matter how screwed up thier schedule, must be in position for the next morning. So I (and all of those flight crews ) get to work late putting them where they belong.
Sids and Stars, although admittidly somewhat rediculous, reduce the airborne conflicts and communications allowing more aircraft to fly at once. They don't cause delays. They actually reduce them.
Airlines are now partners with the FAA command center and vote on weather re-route swaps and delays. Crews often complain that they don't have the fuel to fly the route that their company filed. Oh well, what is your alternate ?
We are working 4 times the planes with 5000 less controllers than in 1981. The end result will be delays. And yet the airlines do not opt for larger transports, but much smaller regional jets which increases conjestion more.
A common sinario. An airport can accept 240 arrivals per hour, but the airline that hubs there has 300 arrivals scheduled at noon. 60 flights will be late. It isn't the FAA's fault. It is the airline's fault. They know the airports capacity, they just ignore it.
The FAA tries to make it work so they use ground delays to stretch the arrivals out. Who looks like the bad guy ? The FAA for delaying a departure? Or the airline that knew all along that the schedule exceeded the airport ?

So things aren't always as they seem or as they are first presented to the public. One captain told me that maitainence could pull both wings off the plane. He could be sitting in a tube at the gate and would still tell the passengers that the delay was ATC and not the airline.

I don't know who sold the club on the idea that a low pass was dangerous either. But I can see how your analogy is relevant.
Old 06-16-2005, 02:59 PM
  #29  
MikeMc
Senior Member
 
MikeMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Union City, CA
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

ORIGINAL: Hossfly
...lights a .40 machine on fire and flies it around at night...
Great idea. My kids will love this for the 4th. Thanks.
Old 06-16-2005, 03:41 PM
  #30  
crash99
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Eldon, MO,
Posts: 757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

"a well managed RC Club will have rules geared for the lowest denominator solo qualified pilot" Hum .............................. I can not agree. A great RC Club is one that needs mo Manager type members.


Thanks Mike for your responce.

Crash99
Old 06-16-2005, 03:45 PM
  #31  
Hossfly
 
Hossfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Caney, TX
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

Great idea. My kids will love this for the 4th. Thanks.
There's much more in these forums. If this is news to you, may I suggest you read some more, maybe much more.
So no need to thank me, as I am not the originator.
Old 06-16-2005, 06:57 PM
  #32  
MikeMc
Senior Member
 
MikeMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Union City, CA
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

Can I get a listing? My kids are bored with stationary explosions.
Old 06-16-2005, 09:39 PM
  #33  
Hossfly
 
Hossfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Caney, TX
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?


ORIGINAL: MikeMc

Can I get a listing? My kids are bored with stationary explosions.
You seem to think yourself rather cute and brilliant, so you can get a listing -- Look 'em up!
Old 06-17-2005, 02:59 AM
  #34  
MikeMc
Senior Member
 
MikeMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Union City, CA
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

ORIGINAL: Hossfly


ORIGINAL: MikeMc

Can I get a listing? My kids are bored with stationary explosions.
You seem to think yourself rather cute and brilliant, so you can get a listing -- Look 'em up!
Even though that seems insulting when I have not insulted you I will explain... if for no other reason than to enterain myself. I would agree with that if I didn't know me, but what appears to be someone trying to act cute and brillant is actually someone that feels lost.

Seriously, I read this forum and some musicians forums which are 90% males under 20 years old and I've come to the conclusion that as men (not all hopefully) get older they become too vengful and are unwilling to change to come to agreement on anything. Nothing can be done to change someone else's opinion, and only anger and fighting can happens. So there's really no point in doing anything except goof about it.

Group A will always think anything that is not considdered "normal" by the majority is unsafe.
Group B will always think unlimitted freedom is everything and that group A is just control freaks.

Now no more serious speaking of things... set some planes on fire. Let's just be thankful I don't come around here very much anymore.
Old 06-17-2005, 10:24 AM
  #35  
mongo
My Feedback: (15)
 
mongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Midland, TX
Posts: 3,498
Received 80 Likes on 70 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3012173/tm.htm


now, maby yer not so lost any more.
Old 06-17-2005, 12:07 PM
  #36  
Hossfly
 
Hossfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Caney, TX
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?


ORIGINAL: crash99

"a well managed RC Club will have rules geared for the lowest denominator solo qualified pilot" Hum .............................. I can not agree. A great RC Club is one that needs mo Manager type members.

//snip//.

Crash99

Is that "mo" for more or is a typo for "no"?

If the latter, then just HOW will anything EVER get done? Grass cutting, site negotiations, newbies taking off with crossed aileron and/or elevators right into someone or a car, etc., and a page full of chores that will never get done without some form of management.
Heck right here in my small library there is a book written by a person named Karl Marx where he explains how the entire world can exist without any management (ruling) class. However as much attention as his work has commanded throughout the many years, he or his successors have never made the system work WITHOUT a strong ruling class keeping the peasants just that -- peasant. Now because of several generations of silver-spooned- mouths in this country that think as KM, we are well headed in that direction as a society that for some 200 years made the most productive "management experience" ever known to man work very well.

Like society, right here in our tiny model aviation society those that think "No rules, No standards, No management" are letting a strong ruling class take over. Accountability and Responsibility are required at each end of the totem-pole or less they will disappear from both ends.

Old 06-17-2005, 02:10 PM
  #37  
crash99
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Eldon, MO,
Posts: 757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

Sorry buddy, You will not like this but here it is. Are club members just do it. A newbi shows up, If I am not there someone else will take care of him. If that person is not there there is others that just jump in there. Mowing and other tasks that need to be done? we just go with "get-er-done"

This must be something new to you but if someone needs to tell you to help someone, or perform needed tasks, Its time for to go back home to the wife and sit in your chair. I am sure you will have many, many tasks given to you so you will not have time to control club members.

Why do you need to control people in a club? People should just GET-ER-DONE. I will assume you have monthly meeting as well. We decided to go to the flying field and Get er done. Now you see how we fly for the fun of it.

Crash99
Old 06-27-2005, 12:07 PM
  #38  
Mokilover
Junior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

I've been reading all of this regarding Dave's comments. I think we all ten d to personalize, all of us. It's a bit concerning to me to hear we have so many inconsiderate people in our sport. Many other sport/hobbys wouldn't tolerate some of the behavior at all! Every one of you were aginst things like flying over or in the pits etc. So from that standpoint we are all against "stupid" behavior.

As far as freestyle,3D etc. go for it. The manuevers are done are generally different then we are used to seeing. High stall etc. Snap rolls are ugly "stalled" manuevers, no body complains about them, unless they are done 10 feet in front of another pilot on the flight line. Most of our 3D People do their thing alone in the sky with people watching or just at the other side of the runway. I can do 3-d, just don't find it that enjoyable, but if you enjoy it do it.

It's not what we do, it's more about sharing the space when their are other people trying to have their fun. We don't have the right to impeach someone else's fun, be it a glider, heli, pattern ship, IMAC etc. Courtesy goes a long way.

I actullly took a somewhat different take on the focus of Dave's comments. Keeping in context issues with lawsuits and the insurance as well as endangering "people". I believed he was focused on well know national figures, shown in pictures, hovering and touching the tail of a 40% giant, the pilot flying with one hand. The AMA even published the photograph.

This "stunt" is beyond challenging 3-D flying. There are less than 1/10 of 1% of the pilots capable of this, unfortuarely as you all attested to we have a "bunch" that are ready to ty it. No matter how you slice it, it isn't good fo the hobby.
Old 06-27-2005, 05:50 PM
  #39  
JohnW
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
 
JohnW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 1,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

DB IMO has a tendency to write without thinking stuff out. I often feel like I'm being treated as a small child when I read his articles in MA. That is how I felt when I read the article this thread is about. If it isn't the parent/child speech, it is the "lets all do it this way" speech or send us $20 now so your dues will be $15 lower next year or some other total BS. His subject matter is just fine in most cases (who could argue with safety?) but the tone and choice of words is totally messed up. I don't fly 3D much anymore, but I still took offense to his article. He could have made the same points in a much more tactful manner that would not have offended the 3D pilots. He really should have staff write his articles for him, and if they are already doing that, he needs to fire them and get new ghost writers.
Old 06-30-2005, 08:01 AM
  #40  
crash99
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Eldon, MO,
Posts: 757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

Due to saftey is the big issue. Let Dave post a detailed monthly Accident / Incident report on the AMA web site. This will show the facts. So, Its up to the AMA. We can have the 3D haters keep blasting away. It will not matter. 3D is here to stay and they need to get over it.

I love all type of flying but I enjoy 3D profiles the best. This Sunday I will have a slow stick, 2 IMAA size biplanes, 1 Quickiee 500 and 3 Profile Katana's. So maybe that keeps me from being anti anything. I would hate to be bitter flyer. I would also hate to have my hobby to become running things.

Thanks
Crash99
Old 06-30-2005, 08:13 AM
  #41  
gow589
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: evansville, IN
Posts: 849
Received 32 Likes on 27 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

DB was referring to the kid with a big name sponser who was hovering 3D in the pits with people around. That's not anti 3D. He was trying to state their position with out acusing anyone of anything. In otherwords, they knew many people knew exactly what he was talking about withoug having to point the finger. He was doing so to state their position on the whole thing wrather than point fingers. The hope is/was that people will recognize how stupid hovering a giant 3d in the pits around people is/was and the problem will take car of itself. When a problem arises, wouldn't you wrather some one stand up and say "ahum, do you really think we should be doing that" wrather than "here are 10 new rules to stop that".

Dave is in a no win situation. He can't put 2 words together without upsetting some one which is why you don't see them (AMA) here. I think that is a good choice on their part. Dave wasn't downing 3d's, he was jut trying to be tactful.
Old 06-30-2005, 01:07 PM
  #42  
crash99
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Eldon, MO,
Posts: 757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

I just came from a 3D type event and there were no flying in the pits. Yes it is hard to make everyone happy. But come on now. If you did what Dave wrote up you would not see anything but left turning slow trainers flying.

Now if you do not think Dave was talking about the 3D crowd, We ................ with alot others will have to disagree. The talk last weekend was maybe Dave needs to get out of the office and dust off his airplane off and find the fun he has lost.

Maybe I need to send Dave a email. I will bet I do not even get a response.

Crash99
Old 06-30-2005, 01:24 PM
  #43  
gow589
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: evansville, IN
Posts: 849
Received 32 Likes on 27 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

ORIGINAL: crash99

Maybe I need to send Dave a email.

Crash99
That's not a bad idea. It would be better to hear it from him then us speculating about it.
Old 07-01-2005, 02:46 PM
  #44  
gow589
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: evansville, IN
Posts: 849
Received 32 Likes on 27 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

As quoted from public web site:
"Professional remote-controller impresses tons of chicks at a pool party by risking their horrible decapitation deaths."

http://www.alldumb.com/item/12422/

Does this make the web site anti-3d? What does it mean when your video shows up on "ALLDUMB.COM"?
Old 07-01-2005, 03:29 PM
  #45  
F106A
My Feedback: (2)
 
F106A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 1,859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

Bet you're right!
Old 07-10-2005, 09:05 AM
  #46  
TimChurch
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

There would be no trainers, because they have less skill and can't fly. Therefore according to AmA I need to stop flying if they are at the field.
It appears as if the idea is to watch rc flying die. Then AMA will die. Then maybe this thread would die.
Old 07-10-2005, 10:48 AM
  #47  
growler14891
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: watkins glen, NY
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

by doing 3d flying increase our skills as pilots and helps the hobby show what it is but i hust saw a video thats total beyond save.and these pilots should know i,m most likely not the only one to find this display a disgusting marr on our hobby.i try and teach my son to be save and i find a video like this on rc universes web site i am greatly concerned that some of our younger pilots will think this is cool and try it with a out come that a pilot our spectator is hurt.last time i knew the y ama frowned on catch aircraft on fire and blowing them up.3d is not risk taken when done saveley but blowing up a aircraft now that a risk that.know one should take.
Old 07-12-2005, 01:21 PM
  #48  
crash99
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Eldon, MO,
Posts: 757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

Ok now. I guess I have been away from my computer to long. Flying every chance I get. Yes mostly the evil 3D flying. Learning on every flight. Yes I will perform this type of flying in front of new and old flyers alike.

Our club is still a non managed flying site. We have all the officers for our club but there is still no reason to have any controlling persons telling people what they can and can not do. It is not needed. No one is getting hurt nor are planes landing at anyone's feet.

It is time for this thread to die just like Dave would like 3D to die off. I would hate to here what he thinks on the probro guys.

I can see 3 different people have responded to this thread
1. The running of the club hobby people
2. The left turning season flyers
3. RC active flying guys. To include non anti 3D flyers.

It is a shame that people have lost the hobby to running a club and club members. This is just sad. Maybe some day they will wake up, look in the sky and get the empty feeling that can only be filled by starting up a plane. Push 100% power and pull back on the stick and climb to the sky. Bang the sticks and play.

Crash99
Old 07-12-2005, 01:56 PM
  #49  
Jim Branaum
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Risk Takers?

Crasgh99,
Sorry, but to me the issue is not club or politics but simple public safety. I don't care what or how folks fly with one simple exception, do so safely. It seems the problem is the definition of safety. You need to consider the herd theory of management and then you might understand why it appears to be a club management issue. Let me give you a better way to consider it from the herd management point of view and see if your opinion stays the same. It shouldn't take too much time or effort to clarify the issue for you.

Who would you allow to fly 3D directly over YOUR head? How long is the list of names and how does one get on that list?

Old 07-12-2005, 11:10 PM
  #50  
AndrewBomar
Senior Member
 
AndrewBomar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Big Rapids, MI
Posts: 327
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Risk Takers?

Whether or not Dave said it tactfully, the point is taking risks leads to injuries, and those flying 3D are more prone to take risks because they can show off. If you can keep it under control and not endanger people then 3D is safe. However, if you feel a manuver is cooler 10' from the pilots than it is 50' from the pilots, then 3D is not for you. I do not find the height of your plane to be an issue, as long as you aren't flying above the field's restrictions as someone stated. Show off to people by taking risks with your plane, not by risking other's health. High speed+low alititude is cool, assuming its not too close. flying behind the flight line is not cool.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.