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Risk Takers?

Old 07-13-2005, 10:25 AM
  #51  
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Some people are into the hobby for relaxation. Whether watching or flying, others enjoy the thrills, the excitement, the risks, or even a bit of danger. The ones that aren't getting a taste of each may not be getting full enjoyment from the experience. When I go to the field, I know the safety and equipment risks and I watch my own backside by trying to stay alert whenever flying isn't demanding my full concentration. I don't care if you're flying 3D, a novice with a trainer, a pro (or just think you are) with a $5,000 model, a group of guys intentionally crashing a flaming model or Dave Brown flying whatever - I don't have any trust when it comes to my personnel safety. I don't make assumptions about my own skills or equipment. I don't trust your skills, your equipment, your technology - and I don't trust you!

If someone's flying habits offends you, it's up to you to confront them. It could be a safety issue or a matter of them hogging runway space with 3D flying or endless touch 'n goes and fly-bys. According to rules, we're required to confront flyers who break the safety codes but I think there are cases that require judgment on whether or not to do that. Also, when it comes to personnel safety, some of the dumbest things I've things I've seen at the field have nothing to do with actual flying. For example, some people tinker endlessly with their models, requiring their full concentration, on the flight line - or too close to it. Beyond all of this, Horrace makes an excellent point about "unsuspecting spectators" who may not know the risks. When you consider all of their potential actions and the variety of facilities available, there are just too many different scenarios. We should do the best we can and use common sense.

I read a post on this forum that tried to correct someone when they used the term "real aircraft" instead of "full-scale". When we say "real aircraft", we should not have to explain to anyone that we mean full-scale. What we fly are not real airplanes. We are not pilots and we should get over it. These are models. If you have a pilot's license, then good for you - we're talking about models here. I fly R/C with a guy uses the term "model" almost exclusively - not "plane", "aircraft", "airplane" or the scale name alone. He's correct in his terminology and I've noticed that it's rubbing off on other people. R/C aircraft are really toys but the bigger, heavier, faster or more expensive they become, the less toy-like they are. In my opinion, the bigger, heavier, faster models are more dangerous, no matter who is on the sticks because the potential for serious injury or death is greater - but I love 'em and the risks involved, which add to the thrills to some degree, will not keep me away from the field or prevent me from attending an event.
Old 07-13-2005, 12:02 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

I will assume that you guys that have a well managed club have seen so much than I. It makes me think why are you having such unsafe flying? There must be a reason right?

Now I did go to an event a few weeks ago where there were 17 profile 3D airplanes hovering at the same time. No bumping, washing ect. No issues to report at all. But you guys have had unsafe flying at your locations. Maybe you need to look at your outlook on flying RC, Your skill level and how you train people to fly. Ask your self this. Are you a all year flyer. Can you take off and land with no issues. Can you see what your airplane is doing a 100 feet away?

Until you are ready to accept the facts, you can claim 3D and other type of flying is unsafe. The numbers do not lie. The AMA have the numbers. Accedents for 3D flyer is most likely the lowest.

Show off is being used left and right. Its not showing off, .................. Its flying to your skill level. I know you will never be able to grasp this fact but try to accept it.

Why a large club that has flyers from entry level to veteran flyers do not see your problems. Maybe it is you not the club members that you are playing CIO. Flying is fun. Ok now, I have let you in on the secret why we do not have you issues. Flying is fun.


Crash99
Old 07-13-2005, 12:36 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Crash99,
I ask you exactly what skill level must someone be to hover a 30% + bird right over your head rather than over the flight line or even better the other side of the runway? The issue is not control, and it is not "showing off", or any of the other buzz words being bandied about, but it is safety. Please address that question, as some in the AMA have.
Old 07-13-2005, 02:05 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: Risk Takers?


ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum

Crash99,
I ask you exactly what skill level must someone be to hover a 30% + bird right over your head rather than over the flight line or even better the other side of the runway? The issue is not control, and it is not "showing off", or any of the other buzz words being bandied about, but it is safety. Please address that question, as some in the AMA have.
Hey Jim-

If some have addressed the safety question in AMA, they have kept it to themselves. What kind of deterrent value does it have to deal with some smartass showoff that flagrantly violates safety standards beyond any iota of common sense, and the issue is treated as a verboten topic by some and the reaction is to squash discussion of. There was some discussion in this forum of such an incident. Some posters called for silence - let AMA handle. The thread was closed. Okay, so AMA got it to deal with. What did AMA do with it?

"Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Somebody hold up the corner of that rug while we sweep this under it."

Abel
Old 07-13-2005, 02:23 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Jim, nice strawman argument. I could ask you a parallel question... Exactly what skill level is required to perform a <blank> maneuver in a model plane at <blank> location. You try to separate "control" and safety, but you can't. Even your question contradicts itself as you ask how much control (skill) is needed, yet control is not the issue? Without control, any action is unsafe. Control comes from skill. With control, risky actions such as takeoff and landings become safer, and a pilot earns the right to fly solo. Add some more control and simple aerobatics become safer. Add even more control and complex/difficult aerobatics maneuvers are safer. Actions simply become safer with control, but there is ALWAYS risk and we ALWAYS tempt fate in every action. Control simply pushes the fate odds in our favor. At some point, and this varies with every individual, as control is added, the risk level is reduced such that the action is deemed acceptable, or safe, etc.

I believe sticking point of the DB article is that it was aimed at those that have control skills to perform complex/difficult maneuvers instead of the unskilled copycats DB is so worried about. DB implies that these maneuvers are unsafe, i.e. risk level is too high, not because the of the original action by skilled pilots, but because of copycats. If there was some specific event that caught DB's attention, then he should have mentioned it specifically as opposed to directing statements at a broad group, most of which already fly safely IMO.
Old 07-13-2005, 03:10 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Jim,

No one around here would perform such a task. Nor would they even think of performing such a task. Over the flight line yes, and that is ok. You know what you can do with your airplane. Now if you see someone flying over your head then the question is, what made this person think its proper to perform such a task. Who was his trainer? Who told him that is something he should do? ect ...

I do not see anything wrong with the big boys performing such task in completion. (none of them fly over the crowns that I have seen) They are alone when this is being performed. They will be graded on that task. So I did not see any reason to respond to such an outrageous question until now. I thought / think you were way out there with such a question.

Crash99
Old 07-13-2005, 04:58 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Show off is being used left and right. Its not showing off, .................. Its flying to your skill level. I know you will never be able to grasp this fact but try to accept it.
Not showing off?

Then why do some pilots find it neccesary to fly to their skill level dangerously close to people? The only people who would appreciate a pilots skill level are other pilots, and they can appreciate it from a safe distance.

I enjoy watching the guys at the field, but it makes me feel unsafe when they do it spitting distance from me. Everyone is caught up in how good they are, that they think they can do it safely. Sure, you trust yourself, but do you trust the stranger next to you? He could easily mess up right? Well, to him YOU are the stranger who could screw up.

To me its not a matter of accidents that have happened, its a matter of unessecary risk. Lets face it, the sport can be risky at times, especially when we start an engine, or reach down to adjust a needle. Why add another element of risk? especially one so easily avoided? And even if the numbers show it won't ad that much risk, could you honestly admit that you would feel comfortable in that pool? Common courtesy. Its one thing to increase personal risk, or risk to your own plane. But to add risk to other pilots or to spectators, that is absurd to think about.

Maybe DB is anti-3D, so what? Many people are against teen drivers. Sure, on paper teens have better eyesight than older people, and faster reflexes. But teens are more prone to take unnesecary risks. Same with 3D. You may have the skills it takes, but 3D presents opportunities to take risks in order to impress others and your own ego.
Old 07-13-2005, 05:13 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Dave'c oments were obviously against some specific 3d events which high profile guys hovering aircraft in the pits. This is not normal 3d activity. It's not agains 3d activity just hovering behind the flight line and stupid acts. He was trying to establish that this type of activity is unacceptable and he was trying to do so without naming names and pointing fingers. He was trying to be diplomatic.

I have seen nothing in the exchanges here by anyone that has been remotely diplomatic. As bad as you all don't like him you could learn a few things from him. The childish exchanges have been entertaining though. Maybe Jerry spinger would like to make a show about it!

You all could get on stage, rip your shirts off and say more silly stuff!
Old 07-13-2005, 05:15 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Crash99,
We seem to be disagreeing for all the wrong reasons about all the wrong things. The problem is you or I would allow that to happen at our flying field, but that there are some who seem to think that the rules are for other idiots to follow because they are good enough to do whatever they want, as can be demonstrated time and time again by videos on the internet. I agree that anyone should be able to do any 3D maneuver they are capable of over the flight line, contest or not as long as they do not interfere with others enjoyment of the community resource. The issue being addressed obliquely is the safety issue demonstrated by folks who do the stupid things we see time and time again rather than any question about skills.

Abel,
Exactly what mechanism would we have used to take action in that case? Today there are only two conditions of membership allowed under the bylaws, open member and ex member. It should be clear that using the second state was determined to be not in the best interests of the AMA as a whole. I would be willing to bet fairly large dollars that we will see changes that allow for more than a binary choice in the event of flagrant violations of the Safety Code. The hard part that needs to be addressed by the AMA is the same one many of us have wrestled with in providing a good due process within our own clubs. That does not happen overnight, nor should it or the process will be flawed and we will be left with more stupid unenforceable rules no one follows. The thread that was closed was not closed so the AMA could handle it. I suspect it was closed so major RCU advertisers would stop taking heat for the public refusal to admit improper actions by employees. Go look who the sponsors are and who was making what remarks about “it was really ok†and remember some of us still vote with our feet, or dollars in this case.

JohnW, that was not a straw man argument rather it was a direct and explicit question we need to start asking those who demonstrate actions of an unsafe nature. While you are not wrong about what DB said you are asking for the impossible. He is not able to refer to specific events for liability reasons similar to those demonstrated in other threads and threats on this forum. Generalizations are normally bad as they can all be proven to be false, however refusal to admit *WE* have a problem is worse. There are entirely too many videos available that show extremely unsafe operations for DB and crowd to ignore the subject.

If you have a better idea of how we can address and begin to resolve the issue that does not destroy the organization, I am sure that there are many on the AMA EC who would jump to be the first in line of championing your solution.



Old 07-13-2005, 09:27 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?


ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum

//SNIP//
Abel,
Exactly what mechanism would we have used to take action in that case? Today there are only two conditions of membership allowed under the bylaws, open member and ex member. It should be clear that using the second state was determined to be not in the best interests of the AMA as a whole. I would be willing to bet fairly large dollars that we will see changes that allow for more than a binary choice in the event of flagrant violations of the Safety Code. The hard part that needs to be addressed by the AMA is the same one many of us have wrestled with in providing a good due process within our own clubs. //SNIP//

//SNIP//
The AMA Bylaws most certainly provide for situations where discipline may be administered without making the culprit an ex-member. There are many choices of correcting an individual's behavior rather than removing him/her from the membership rolls.

>>>>>>>>
AMA Bylaws Article V

ARTICLE V
Resignation, Termination, Disciplinary Action,
Exclusion, Expulsion, and Reinstatement of Membership


Section 1. //SNIP//
Section 2. //SNIP//

Section 3. Any individual may be expelled or excluded from
membership by the AMA by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the
Executive Council if, in the Executive Council’s determination, such
individual willfully commits any act or omission which is a violation
of any of the terms of the Articles of Incorporation, Bylaws, or Rules
of the AMA, or which is detrimental to the AMA or to model
aviation. Expulsion from membership is subject to the following
procedures and rights.

Procedural sections --//SNIP//

Section 5. The Executive Council shall have the authority to provide
for and to impose disciplinary action for such acts or omissions
described in Section 3 of Article V which do not justify expulsion
from membership.
<<<<<<<<<<

All that is required is an Executive Council that will exercise its responsibility.

Old 07-13-2005, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?


ORIGINAL: Hossfly


ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum

//SNIP//
Abel,
Exactly what mechanism would we have used to take action in that case? Today there are only two conditions of membership allowed under the bylaws, open member and ex member. It should be clear that using the second state was determined to be not in the best interests of the AMA as a whole. I would be willing to bet fairly large dollars that we will see changes that allow for more than a binary choice in the event of flagrant violations of the Safety Code. The hard part that needs to be addressed by the AMA is the same one many of us have wrestled with in providing a good due process within our own clubs. //SNIP//

//SNIP//
The AMA Bylaws most certainly provide for situations where discipline may be administered without making the culprit an ex-member. There are many choices of correcting an individual's behavior rather than removing him/her from the membership rolls.

>>>>>>>>
AMA Bylaws Article V

ARTICLE V
Resignation, Termination, Disciplinary Action,
Exclusion, Expulsion, and Reinstatement of Membership


Section 1. //SNIP//
Section 2. //SNIP//

Section 3. Any individual may be expelled or excluded from
membership by the AMA by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the
Executive Council if, in the Executive Council’s determination, such
individual willfully commits any act or omission which is a violation
of any of the terms of the Articles of Incorporation, Bylaws, or Rules
of the AMA, or which is detrimental to the AMA or to model
aviation. Expulsion from membership is subject to the following
procedures and rights.

Procedural sections --//SNIP//

Section 5. The Executive Council shall have the authority to provide
for and to impose disciplinary action for such acts or omissions
described in Section 3 of Article V which do not justify expulsion
from membership.
<<<<<<<<<<

All that is required is an Executive Council that will exercise its responsibility.


Thanks Horrace-

You've cleared up the question of what AMA could do, by the book. To me the real question though is what AMA would do, and the answer to that question is from all appearances exactly what I expected - zip, zero, nada. Somehow AMA's position re safety was ultraconservative when it came to deciding whether a man with a defib unit planted in his chest was an uninsurable risk for flying an R/C model airplane, despite the fact that there is nothing in the bylaws, safety code or any other documentation available from AMA regarding this, nor any published exclusion cited from the terms of the unobtainable insurance policy. Maybe Jim is onto something in his inferences about 'sponsors,' as makers of defib units don't advertise in MA or put on R/C events. I do agree with him about the responsibility or lack thereof of the sponsor, responding by voting with my wallet. I recently purchased a new 'all the bells and whistles' Tx. It was made in Korea, not Japan. Just my way of saying I'd rather have the guy with the defib next to me on on the flight line than the one that gets his jollys by putting a large mowing machine in my face.

Abel
Old 07-14-2005, 08:28 AM
  #62  
Jim Branaum
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Horrace,
Exactly what would you take as disciplinary action? To date the only thing you seem to have supported is physical violence between AMA members to salve your wounded pride. That is a heck of a way to run a railroad and one of the several reasons I stand committed to do whatever it takes to keep you from elected office. Your conflict resolution methods may work in your family, but I fail to see how they will be of value to the AMA and its membership.


Abel, the question is actually fairly simple. What is punishment? There is no defined punishment that has been discussed except expulsion. The issue has not been dropped but that question is being addressed. It turns out that creating a new disciplinary action on the fly will result in expensive legal action we all would rather not throw dues monies at. The AMA cannot make up the punishment on the fly, but like other organizations has to have the limits and bounds that are previously defined. Go back to the requirement put on the clubs to have a due process and disciplinary action to prevent additional expensive legal actions and use that as a starting place. From what I understand, the AMA EC is taking similar action for the exact same reasons but in a proactive member. Read that as closing the door on lawsuits before it gets opened.

Should that action already have been taken? Yes, of course and we all feel that way about everything after the fact.
Old 07-14-2005, 02:59 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Diplomacy... the art of saying "nice doggie" while you look for a larger stick.

Jim, I'll have to accept at face value that DB cannot refer to specific events for liability reasons, but that still does not excuse his last three paragraphs in my book. I personally took offense to his idea of restraint as it applies to the typical AMA above average skilled pilot. I think DB needed to define "stunt" better to clarify the issue. I can see that by "stunt" he might have meant something like hovering over one's head as opposed to something like a low hover over the runway, but he really wasn't very clear what he means.

I'm still not 100% clear on what DB considered unsafe, but assuming we are talking about hovering in the pits over heads or the like, the solution is simple but will be difficult to employ. The key is to ask "Why is this going on?" Ego, national recognition, to gain sponsors, to thrill the crowd? If the crowd hated to watch the "danger" they wouldn't attend the events, or by the tapes, or pay any attention to who sponsored the risky pilots, etc. Without the demand, the pilots wouldn't bother taking the risk in most cases. It is human nature to enjoy being thrilled by an element of danger, which makes a solution difficult to employ. DB implies that the problem is with the "risk takers." I would argue that the problem is actually with the spectators and their enjoyment of watching the risky behavior. Until we as spectators change our tastes, the problem will remain. The likelihood of spectators not wanting to see the "risky" air shows, wing walkers, NASCAR crashes, WWF, etc. is about nil. So, if a "real" solution is unobtainable, the only thing the AMA can really do is separate themselves from the risk takers. This is why I still feel the AMA should privately contact the national risk takers and expressed their concerns directly to the pilots explaining how they violated the AMA safety rules with their stunt. I would ask the offending pilot to find new stunts to thrill the crowd that do not violate the safety codes. If the national pilots in question do not change their ways, I would threaten expulsion from the AMA or banning them from flying at any AMA event, etc. For most hot dog pilots, I'd think they wouldn't want to risk not being able to show off anymore at big AMA events, so they would comply. Not a perfect solution, but it is the best I can come up with at the time.
Old 07-14-2005, 03:18 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

ORIGINAL: JohnW

Diplomacy... the art of saying "nice doggie" while you look for a larger stick.
Actually, much of the conversation in these AMA forums (undiplomatic) seem to just insult the other person more than find solutions or realistically address issues. Quite often the people throwing stones agree yet say it in ways that rubs salt in the other persons face thus an argument ensues.

The issue with the hovering in pits and such that Dave was reffered to was sort of dealt with on it's own. The issue came initially from competitors who did not like taking apart their aircraft and tents only to have to step back because of a hovering aircraft staring in their face.The people who did it got allot of heat from their pears. (pear pressure saves us from making a lot of rules). I doubt they will do it again. BUT it has surfaced several times in other situations. The problem is with anyone in an admistrative position, when you bite one offender where do you stop. To some degree we are all sinners and where each idividual draws the line is different. Dave cannot type 2 letters with out upsetting some one. Doesn't mean something shouldn't be done. Deciding what would be an apropriate couse of action would be good.

One of the bennifits to this forum is getting the word out that the "comunity" R/C field is just that. You can do things on your own land or on your own property that you just shouldn't do in a comunity environment. A comunity field is as much the next guys home as it is yours. At your own home you can hover an airplane 3 feet over your car. No problem. At a public R/C field, not a good thing. everyone has to come up with standards that work for everyone. The only way to do so is with some diplomacy. If we don't have diplomacy, then we'll just have to start adding rules till no one can do anything.

At least that's my take.

Gary
Old 07-14-2005, 05:41 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Son, we don't call it risk taking. We call it pushing the bubble. Thats what it's all about and thats where progress comes from.

Mountain Bob
Old 07-15-2005, 02:20 PM
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Hold it right there. Sorry I have been away flying the past few days taking some time off from work.

gow589 !QUOT!profile guys hovering aircraft in the pits!QUOT! This was a poor choice of words. Are you referring to The Profile Brotherhood group. Name the place, time and who the pilot is. You can not due to this never happen with a balsa airplane did it.

For the guys that do not know what is the PROBROS are, I have been to their event and I will fly with them anytime.

They are called the 1% for a reason. They are the best skilled flyers I have ever seen. I was just at one of their events to see what they are about. all airplanes were over the flight line or out in the tall grass.

No flying over the pits. Get the facts right due to now you can say the sky is blue and no one can put any faith in your commit. You have been caught in a lie.


Crash99.
Old 07-15-2005, 02:38 PM
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gow589
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

ORIGINAL: crash99


gow589 !QUOT!profile guys hovering aircraft in the pits!QUOT! This was a poor choice of words. Are you referring to The Profile Brotherhood group. Name the place, time and who the pilot is. You can not due to this never happen with a balsa airplane did it.

More than once. The largest known case is the large scale aerobatic pilot hovering a large gas airplane in the pits flown by large sponser pilot. It was a topic of this forum and others a while back. It was specifically what and who dave was refering to. Specifically. The thread was locked and I doubt they want to re-open it.
Old 07-15-2005, 03:18 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Hi,
Then why didn't Dave say that?
There's no liability if you tell the truth and accurately recount the incident, including naming names. IMO, Dave was afraid of the repercussions from the sponsor: possibly withdrawing advertising from MA.
BRG,
Jon
Old 07-15-2005, 03:26 PM
  #69  
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Exactly. And on top of that, who want's to stir up a big mess if you can be diplomatic. His hope is that he states their position on the whole thing: "Ahem, let's not be doing this! Enough said", everyone understands and people stop doing it. Diplomacy. If that doesn't work then take it to the next level.

We are in an exciting time in aviation. With the advent of lithium batteries, incredable power systems and thousands of people trying new things. The fact that we are having problems like this are good. We are exploring our freedoms (some times too much) and creating new ways to fly everyday.


ORIGINAL: F106A

Hi,
Then why didn't Dave say that?
There's no liability if you tell the truth and accurately recount the incident, including naming names. IMO, Dave was afraid of the repercussions from the sponsor: possibly withdrawing advertising from MA.
BRG,
Jon
Old 07-15-2005, 10:54 PM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Dave needs to retract this in the next issue. Also Dave needs to provide the information we requested. Hiding the information is a bad deal.

Crash99
Old 07-16-2005, 09:08 PM
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I just got back from a fun fly event. Some of you would not like this at all. Loud giant scale flying down the runway about 15' up. We had trainers to profiles to giant size at this event. Guess what. Everyone took their planes and bodies home with out any issue.

Crash99
Old 07-17-2005, 10:57 AM
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Note: Most of the 'silly rhetoric' has been removed...I think my coffee was too strong this morning.

I had the opportunity to meet the originator of this thread at a fun fly yesterday. I watched in amazement while he and his flying buddies demonstrated their skills...mucho grande skills...it was some of the best flying I've seen, and I attend many events per season that are dominated by 40% ers flying 'extreme 3D' (which end up being mostly TRing and straight-line rolling harriers...yawn). Crash99 and his buddies were vastly superior pilots to the guys flying the 40% 3Ders yesterday. Vastly superior. They were doing things yesterday with some 60-sized profile FF's that had to be seen to be believed...rolling harrier circles reversing the roll direction every 180 degrees of the circle while under 10 feet from the ground...and everything else...EVERYTHING. All within a small box, always in control. These guys might appear to be 'out of control' or 'dangerous' but I can assure you that they were far more in-control than anyone else there.

IT IS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO KNOW WHEN THEY ARE BECOMING A HAZARD. It is also up to the fellow fliers to CORRECT them IMMEDIATELY when they are BECOMING a hazard if they don't realize they are becoming a hazard. There is no way to mandate what is 'safe' and 'unsafe' without severly impacting advancement of the hobby...we can only rely on the perception of the majority of the other flyers at the field. A .40-sized trainer flying straight and level can kill you just as dead as a 40% 3D plane.

-Tom
Old 07-17-2005, 01:17 PM
  #73  
crash99
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

TT2,

Thank you for the nice words. McDDD and Gary was the outstanding flyers. But Thank You. I do not think most of these guy's can nor will get it. Dave should not have made the write up and if this was one of Dave's staff that wrote this for him they, they should have been fired.

But thats ok. Dave has prov-en that he is no longer among the RC flyer. We are all having to do more with less in these times. If Dave respected us flyers he, The one that is in charge would have the AMA do more with less.

No not Dave, He spends our money and calls on all that has been flying for more than a year BAD. TT2 got my point correctly. We are all bad if we show are skills to a less shilled pilot, We are really bad if we like 3D and show are skills to less skilled pilots.

Dave, Show us respect! Stop pushing the Anti 3D. Shoot, after reading your thoughts and seeing what the AMA is doing lately I would like to see a flyer to be elected prez for the AMA.

I know I could even do a better job than you in running such a spend spend spend AMA. I can say NO, we need to do more with less. Cut back just like our members. Stop sending out video's unless they order it. Cut back the fields at the AMA for now.

Crash99
Old 07-17-2005, 04:26 PM
  #74  
abel_pranger
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Crash99-

I'm having a hard time understanding who you are defending your chosen aspect of the hobby from, other than DB of course. scanning back over this thread, I didn't notice anyone condemning 3D flying or showing off one's skills - if they are doing it without endangering the other pilots and spectators. As for me, I like 3D and I'm trying to learn how to do it myself. As for the macho crap (as opposed to skill), I could do without that. I don't have any strong objection to the macho displays, however, as long the risk falls on the guy doing it and his airplane, and not on me or others present. For those that need the thrill of putting others at risk, let them play William Tell with their wives and children and take apples off their heads with a 30 inch prop on a hovering 50 lb model airplane, on the other side of the runway. To those that feel compelled to vie for the Darwin Award, do your thing and I'll turn away quietly- but don't do it over my head or I'll do what it takes to stop you. And BTW, I'll be the judge of whether your actions present a hazard to me, not your self-assessment of your talent.

Abel
Old 07-17-2005, 04:48 PM
  #75  
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Default RE: Risk Takers?

Good post Abel. By gar, ya' do git it right ever so often!

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