AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

Danger and Fun

Reply

Old 06-19-2005, 04:06 PM
  #1  
Mike in DC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 993
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Danger and Fun

A while back there was a "discussion" here about a stunt pulled in Memphis where a trainer was set on fire and flown until it crashed. Some folks felt that this was dangerous behavior beyond the pale, and that the perps were threatening the entire R/C hobby by their behavior. The other side said that setting stuff on fire is great fun, they wish they had been there, and what good would life be without doing stuff like this (I paraphrase).

Marc closed the thread, which was OK by me, but the July 2005 issue of Popular Science had an article that I thought was very relevant: http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviatio...068619,00.html. In what the reporter calls "one big explosive picnic", hundreds of model rocket enthusiasts gather annually to, well, "blow things up", it appears.

For those who worry that the government will prohibit folks from doing stupid things, this article is a good read. I particularly like the contest to see how high you can launch an 8 pound bowling ball! Trust me, the stunt with the trainer in Memphis would not even raise an eyebrow at the Dangerous Rocket Ship Launch! Nobody seemed to be worried about insurance (despite the obvious need), but there is a good discussion of the threat of government regulation.
Mike in DC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2005, 05:25 PM
  #2  
combatpigg
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun

If it's acceptable for some fat slob with high blood pressure and a 20 year old bypass [that is going bad] to get behind the wheel and share the road with me, even drive a school bus, then I guess it should be OK to hover a burning plane over wet grass. This world is being taken over by the insurance companys, that is where the pressure for safety laws comes from. Someday, [I speculate]after having any kind of medical episode that causes a loss consciousness, you will lose your drivers' license if you don't have enough money to fight it.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2005, 08:17 AM
  #3  
gow589
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: evansville, IN
Posts: 678
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun

It's all in the context. If it were on their own private property no one would care. Being at an AMA field, they represent everyone there. People have the right to complain about it just as if some one went streaking across the infield (I sure as heck would not want to see any you old farts streaking across the infield!). Do it at their own house fine, on their own property great. Do it at an AMA field which is each members living room, it doesn't go over well. I can throw my feet up on my coffie table, just not on my mom's!
gow589 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2005, 09:22 AM
  #4  
s3nfo
My Feedback: (14)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 881
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun


ORIGINAL: Mike in DC

A while back there was a "discussion" here about a stunt pulled in Memphis where a trainer was set on fire and flown until it crashed. Some folks felt that this was dangerous behavior beyond the pale, and that the perps were threatening the entire R/C hobby by their behavior. The other side said that setting stuff on fire is great fun, they wish they had been there, and what good would life be without doing stuff like this (I paraphrase).

Marc closed the thread, which was OK by me, but the July 2005 issue of Popular Science had an article that I thought was very relevant: http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviatio...068619,00.html. In what the reporter calls "one big explosive picnic", hundreds of model rocket enthusiasts gather annually to, well, "blow things up", it appears.

For those who worry that the government will prohibit folks from doing stupid things, this article is a good read. I particularly like the contest to see how high you can launch an 8 pound bowling ball! Trust me, the stunt with the trainer in Memphis would not even raise an eyebrow at the Dangerous Rocket Ship Launch! Nobody seemed to be worried about insurance (despite the obvious need), but there is a good discussion of the threat of government regulation.

Mike, you have an interesting perspective for someone who's never been to the NARA event!
The "Rocket Men" run a very well managed event that would put to shame most club safety programs. They do have insurance, they hold the event in the middle of the high California desert where there's absolutely nothing to catch fire, you can't even get near the launch site unless you've been certified to handle explosives, they even tell you where to park so cars are out of the blast area, the failed recovery system impact area and recovery area. Oh, and the bowling ball launch requires that the ball be secured so it must stay with the rocket during parachute recovery and cannot freefall. There's even a full time comms tech that maintains communications with the nearest FAA Traffic Control facility to ensure the rockets are never, ever shot near aircraft.
It's a very, very well run and safe event.
Apples and oranges to compare that with a couple hooligans setting fire to an airplane (which, I agree they have every right to do as long as they're not on "common" (read club) property).

s3nfo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2005, 11:50 AM
  #5  
Mike in DC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 993
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun

ORIGINAL: s3nfo

Apples and oranges to compare that with a couple hooligans setting fire to an airplane (which, I agree they have every right to do as long as they're not on "common" (read club) property).

Thanks for the insight. I only knew what I read, and I can tell you the Pop Sci. article did not emphasize safety.

By the way, I am NOT trying to rekindle the debate about the burning plane, just to observe that another hobby that many would consider dangerous (and perhaps stupid) seems to be getting along just fine with very little government regulation.

And with s3nfo's comments, it appears that perhaps we have a lot to learn from their experience, how they keep it that way.
Mike in DC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2005, 12:26 PM
  #6  
EJN
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 53 miles west of Venus
Posts: 25
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun

By the way, I am NOT trying to rekindle the debate about the burning plane, just to observe that another hobby that many would consider dangerous (and perhaps stupid) seems to be getting along just fine with very little government regulation.
I belong to the NAR (National Association of Rocketry).

There is a lot of regulation of rocketry. In order to launch high-power rockets,
you must be certified by NAR or TRA. I have NAR certification.

All launches are conducted under a waiver from the FAA per FAR101.

To buy the larger rocket motors, you need a low explosives user permit (LEUP)
from the ATF. LEUP holders must have an approved magazine for storage,
and are inspected twice a year by a field agent. In order to obtain an LEUP,
you must undergo a background check & be fingerprinted.

I'll bet there would be few people involved in RC under this amount
of regulation.

The name LDRS (large, dangerous rocket ships) is a poor in-joke.
Despite the apparent dangerous appearance, there has never been
a fatality at a sanctioned launch. The only claims ever made for
insurance are for dings to cars. The actual safety record is FAR better
than RC.

The Popular science article is slightly misleading in that no explosions
are intentional. Explosions only occur if the combustion chamber overpressurizes
and ruptures, which is rare with commercial motors. It happens more
often with EX (experimental), but that's why they are classified
experimental. Note that NAR does not support EX, only TRA.
Also note that the propellant per-se is not explosive in and of
itself, which is a major source of contention regarding the
need for an explosives permit, and the subject of ongoing
litigation in the courts.


As stated above, bowling balls are tethered to the rocket and
returned to earth by parachute. No free-fall. Having any
portion of a rocket return to earth without a recovery
device is a major violation of the safety code.
I drive to another state to launch my rockets in the middle
of an abandoned air force base. This is a far cry from your
typical RC flying field.
EJN is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2005, 01:08 PM
  #7  
Gollywock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Santo, TX
Posts: 406
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun

I watched an hour long program on TV the other night about that meet (Discovery ch.). Everybody there had a great big on their face. As Ed N stated,they took every precaution to make it a safe, family oriented event. Jim
Gollywock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2005, 02:12 PM
  #8  
scottrc
 
scottrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: A TREE, KS
Posts: 2,737
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun

Now I know why I quit reader Popular Science, its like watching Fox News. All useless talk and BS to excite the viewer.

I too am a Rocketeer through NAR. And by no means is safety taken lightly. Although I have not taken my L1 or L2 certs yet, the amount of regulation and training that I will need go through, not to mention money, would make any AMA member roll over and bury themselve in the sand if they ever have to be subjected to such extremes.

However, the regs must be working, for nobody has been injured, and the Government has called off the regulation dogs on rocketeers for the time being. I have never met so many guys who want to have fun and still promote a hobby in a professional manner.

I saw a bumber sticker once on a L3 rocketeer's car, it said "Anything flying slower than mach 3 is just a toy".



Scott
scottrc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2005, 11:34 AM
  #9  
crash99
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Eldon, MO,
Posts: 757
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun

I am so sorry you just can not understand what is being said on Fox News. I find them fair and eye opening. Burn a plane, Yes sure, Who am I to tell them they can not. Maybe the AMA need to come out with Thou shall not burn airplanes and fly them. Have fun.

If you were not there, Who gives you the right to gripe?

BTW who got hurt?

Crash99
crash99 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2005, 05:04 PM
  #10  
scottrc
 
scottrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: A TREE, KS
Posts: 2,737
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun

Well, I do have to admit, I do watch Fox News, but only because the gal who sits in the middle seat usually wears a mini skirt and has great legs.
scottrc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2005, 09:52 AM
  #11  
lomcevek1
Senior Member
 
lomcevek1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eagle River, AK
Posts: 942
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun


ORIGINAL: scottrc


"Anything flying slower than mach 3 is just a toy".





Now that is hillarious !!!!!!!!!


Pointing out how dangerous something else is does not help. My kids try stuff like that by saying "Yeah well you let me do that yesterday" So I say well that wont happen again. Basically they lose more than they would have.

I to don't want to rekindle the debate in Memphis but I was there and it was the coolest thing I have ever seen. However everyone there said the same thing we also agreed that we shouldn't do that again.

(BTW it was nothing close to a trainer)
lomcevek1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2005, 06:51 PM
  #12  
50+AirYears
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Irmo, SC OH
Posts: 1,628
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun

Should have watched the program on History channel about one of the NAR meets. People complain about the AMA safety code being restrictive? You ain't seen nothing. And, in reading the Pop Sci article myself, I also noted the reporter mentioned that for one of the launches at least, he had to be back 1000 feet from the launch pad.
This report reminds me of a report on an anti American demonstration in the 70s. A group of reporters thought the actual demonstration was kind of dead, so they paid a group of bystanders to put on another "Newsworthy" demonstration.
I personally wouldn't have thought PS would do something like this, but I guess even some of them have no problem with dressing up the news.
50+AirYears is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2005, 10:16 PM
  #13  
Live Wire
Senior Member
 
Live Wire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sterling , CO
Posts: 6,059
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Danger and Fun

The fun is out of going to bed at night a the danger is getting up in the morning. It would be great to be young againNever Happen[&o]
Live Wire is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service