c/f

My Feedback: (1)

Hey all you rule AFFICIANADO'S

This is cutting edge r/c parkflyer stuff, There are literally 1000's of kits shipping right now and reported more commercial venture capitolist gearing up for the holiday season.

If I show up at the local dirt track, lemans road course, the river city racers pond, the local r/c air field, or a soccer field,

WHAT frequency group should I be on to not void AMA insurance???? I'ts not that much of a strech to imagine third world imports selling ARF's as boats.

I know everywhere I take mine people want one even though they have no desire to go airborne, just for the ATV aspect cool factor.

Be specific with your answer as I may have to use it some day as my intterprutation of the rules........

MISS HANGAR ONE, performance video

[link]http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=miss-hangar-one-10mb-tide[/link]

the-plumber

The answers are found in 47CFR95, available from www.fcc.gov or from www.gps.gov. 47CFR95 is the set of FCC rules addressing the Personal Radio Service, of which radio control is a part.

AMA's Membership Manual also lists these assignments, but the governing document remains 47CFR95.

47CFR95.205 reads in part :

(2) The following channels may only
be used to operate a model aircraft device:
MHZ
72.01
72.03
72.05
72.07
72.09
72.11
72.13
72.15
72.17
72.19
72.21
72.23
72.25
72.27
72.29
72.31
72.33
72.35
72.37
72.39
72.41
72.43
72.45
72.47
72.49
72.51
72.53
72.55
72.57
72.59
72.61
72.63
72.65
72.67
72.69
72.71
72.73
72.75
72.77
72.79
72.81
72.83
72.85
75.41
75.43
75.45
75.47
75.49
75.51
75.53
75.55
75.57
75.59
75.61
75.63
75.65
75.67
75.69
72.87
72.89
72.91
72.93
72.95
72.97
72.99
(3) The following channels may only
be used to operate a model surface
craft devices:
MHZ
75.71
75.73
75.75
75.77
75.79
75.81
75.83
75.85
75.87
75.89
75.91
75.93
75.95
75.97
75.99

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

There are othere frequencies available as well, this CFR means that these particular frequencies can ONLY be used for RC and does not imply other frequencies cannot be used for RC

FOD MAN

Gee, what about the flying lawn mower its a ground vehicle. aint some of you going to complain about that also.must you people nitpick everthing to death. who really cares anyway.

bruff

My Feedback: (18)

Just fly on 27 mhz. It is still allowed per FCC & AMA for both land & air use.
Bob

the-plumber

I guess you missed the bit where I wrote "47CFR95.205 reads in part : "

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

uh....sure thing....[sm=bananahead.gif]

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Is there a typo here. Looks like a bunch of 75 MHZ under the aircraft list.


As to what frequency?

A boat that can fly is an airplane. An airplane that can land on water is an airplane. A lawnmower that can fly is an airplane.

The key measure its that it flies. Surface vehicles don't fly!

the-plumber

No typo. The 75 MHz section specifically indicates _surface craft devices_.

3) The following channels may only
be used to operate a model surface
craft devices:
MHZ
75.71
75.73
75.75
75.77
75.79
75.81
75.83
75.85
75.87
75.89
75.91
75.93
75.95
75.97
75.99

Guys, I didn't -write- the CFR, I just quoted the most commonly referred-to section of the thing !!!!

the-plumber

If that is supposed to mean I didn't cite every allowable frequency for model control in the U.S., you're correct.

I didn't cite any of 47CFR97 which in not likely of interest unless the original poster is a licensed ham operator.

I didn't list any of the 'other' frequencies because transmitters and receivers which operate in the 27 MHz band are few and far between.

All I cited were the common frequencies used by the vast majority of modelers as a 'sure thing'.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

I am not trying to be a pain, I am trying to understand your post. This is copied directly from the post. Note the whole string of, what appear to be 75 mhz channels, 75.xx listed in the middle of a series of 72.XX under airplanes.

CAn you clarify? If you doubt the list below, just go back and take a look at the original. I am just trying to understand what you posted.


From your post:

47CFR95.205 reads in part :

(2) The following channels may only
be used to operate a model aircraft device:
MHZ
72.01
72.03
72.05
72.07
72.09
72.11
72.13
72.15
72.17
72.19
72.21
72.23
72.25
72.27
72.29
72.31
72.33
72.35
72.37
72.39
72.41
72.43
72.45
72.47
72.49
72.51
72.53
72.55
72.57
72.59
72.61
72.63
72.65
72.67
72.69
72.71
72.73
72.75
72.77
72.79
72.81
72.83
72.85
75.41
75.43
75.45
75.47
75.49
75.51
75.53
75.55
75.57
75.59
75.61
75.63
75.65
75.67
75.69
72.87
72.89
72.91
72.93
72.95
72.97
72.99
(3) The following channels may only
be used to operate a model surface
craft devices:
MHZ
75

smokingcrater

I'm willing to bet there are twice as many of those 'other' tx/rx's out there as compared to 72/75!!! think of all the cheap walmart toys and such on those freqs...

anyway, back to the subject at hand, get your hydrofoam flying yet? mine is almost ready to go, finished up a little more rigging, now just have to paint. (and yes, it is on channel 18 air!)

the-plumber

Nice catch !!!

I didn't actually read the list of frequencies, I simply copied it as a .txt file from disk. Ouch !!!

The original 47CFR95 is a .pdf file, and I don't don't have the software to manipulate that stuff. What I do have is Adobe Reader, and it allows you to save a copy as a .txt file.

Adobe Reader did manage to produce the .txt file correctly, and I uploaded an excerpt of the salient portion of that .txt file.

It appears that the RCU software wrapped the columnar format of the uploaded .txt file and in so doing folded half the surface frequencies into the aircraft frequencies.

My apologies. There is indeed a 75 MHz section smack in the middle of the 72 MHz listing, and it should not be there.

Here's an abbreviated version, now that the horse is well and truly way down the road . . .


(2) The following channels may only
be used to operate a model aircraft device:
MHZ
72.01 through 72.99 (on odd-number channel spacing, e.g. 72.01, 72.03, 72.05, and so on through 72.99)

(3) The following channels may only
be used to operate a model surface
craft devices:
MHZ
75.41 through 75.99 (on odd-number channel spacing, e.g. 75.41, 75.43, 75.45, and so on through 75.99)


<major drat !>

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

If you believe that 27mhz equipment is not widely available and in use, I think you might be surprised? [] Let me help you out. It would not surprise me if there are more 27 mhz radios sold than 72 mhz radios every year.

But if you would like components, here are some available options:

ParkZone receiver
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=PKZ1252
ParkZone Radio
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=PKZ1246

HobbyZone Radio
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=HBZ3555
HobbyZone receiver
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...rodID=HBZ78302


the big radio makers have plenty fo 27 mhz equipment for you.



Here is a nice Futaba 27 mhz system for you.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXBCP2**&P=ML
Additional 27 mhz Frequency packs
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXCSW6**&P=7
Or you can get the Futaba 27 mhz frequency Synth Module
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHKB2&P=7

Airtroncis Synth module
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGRF2&P=7
Airtronics 27 mhz 8 channel reciever
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LX0784**&P=7

Hitec 27 mhz
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXN521&P=7
Radio system
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...odID=HRC135271


JR 27 mhz synth receiver
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...dID=JRPRS30027

Megatech 27 mhz radio sysetm
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...odID=MTC732027

If you think that 27 mhz equipment is not readily availabe, guess again!

rcflyerfl

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Guys,
I just want to know where I can get one. Plans or kit.
I will fly on 6 meters.

Jim

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

c/f brought this question up to me so this is why he is asking. Note that the will not fly it but only use it on the ground and on water. If it doesn't go airborne then there is no reason why he should have to use aircraft frequencies. If he does decide later to make it so that he can fly it, then he should go with aircraft frequencies. I'd like to have one myself but I wouldn't fly it either, then it would be classified as an airboat.

the-plumber

I didn't say you couldn't _get_ the stuff, I said those systems were "few and far between".

Next time you see some 27MHz radios being used to operate model _aircraft_ at an organized flying site, AMA or not, lemme know, ok ?

In the past two years, I've seen _two_ such systems, and both were part of a package deal on a park flyer.

Just because you managed to find some 27MHz hardware doesn't make it's use widespread in model aircraft.

The Futaba items only fit the 3PK system, itself plainly marked SURFACE USE.

The Airtronics items only fit the M8 transmitter and are plainly listed as suitable for BOAT and CAR use.

One of the HiTec items is AM, while the other is a receiver suitable for use with "dual conversion transmitters" (figure that one out if you can).

You found a few 27MHz bits and pieces from each of the large radio manufacturers and a few more bits from wannabe radio manufacturers.

If 27MHz were popular Futaba, HiTec, JR, and Airtronics/Sanwa would have more than -ONE- system that can use 27Hz.

Only a lunatic or the very uninformed would think about using 27MHz to control a model aircraft because of the OTHER 27MHZ transmitters running up and down the nation's highways. One trucker rolling past while yakking on a CB radio with a big linear splattering across twenty channels is all it would take to shoot your 27MHz airplane down.

It might be ok for your Bigfoot model to loose it's mind on the dirt track, but having a model aircraft receiver start listening to the little voices in it's head is truly ungood.

27MHz is NOT widely used in model aviation _except_ by those who purchase park flyers without bothering to find out if the things can be flown safely or reliably.

Methinks Caveat Emptor applies here, and most non-modeling consumers are not wary of what they're getting for their money.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

the soaring crowd uses a large amount of 27 mhz am equipment.

they prefeer it fer some really odd reason that has never be explaned well enough for me to understand it.

culver

Hey, primarily the thing flies so if it uses airplane only frequency's fair enough. It's gotta run across the ground or water to take off anyway and there is no spec as to how far that should be.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Stop asking stupid questions. OBVIOUSLY, you need to use a frequency that is an AVERAGE of 72(aircraft) and 75(surface). The hydrofoam should be flown/driven on 74.50mhz.

culver

Easytiger, start typing up the proposal to the FCC we need more frequencies.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

I don't know how to type, though.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

AMA new rule proposal #5698

"All hydrofoams, flying cars, flying lawnmowers, flying boats, and float plans shall have two radio systems installed. While in contact with the ground or water, a surface frequency radio shall be employed. Immediately after becoming airborne the surface frequency radio shall be shut off. Once the surface frequency radio is not functioning, the aircraft frequency radio shall be turned on. At no time shall the aircraft frequency radio be turned on prior to the surface frequency radio being shut off. Flying witches are excluded from this rule, as they fly by magic"