AMA and local clubs
08-19-2005, 08:30 AM
#1
Thread Starter
AMA and local clubs
The 2 problems I see with the AMA is Cost and there rules. I went for the 1/2 year rate for 1/2 price. But I had to do the magizine which costs more. The big rule the AMA has I do not like is... You are supposed to abide by the RULES the RC club has where you fly. NOT GOOD. I used to fly at a couple of places where the field is actually owned by the county. All you needed to fly was proof of home insurance for flying RC...or AMA insurance. Us RC people that do not fly in compitetion should ony need basic coverage. Now one of these clubs where I used to fly (which is public land) makes up there own rules...like landing fee...AMA only insurance and only if they like you enough to let you fly. The club I am talking about thinks they own the land...but they don,t. The AMA should tell such clubs to try and support the RC Hobby instead of letting them make up any rule they wish. I do not like it when I pay the AMA and then be jerked around with rules these clubs on public land inforces. The AMA should get that straight...NOW. Also I do understand that clubs with privite fields should be able to make certain rules...ok. I have gone to RC fly- ins where they treat everyone real nice and even have food at the fly in for just a donation. Very nice guys. But the AMA has to keep a tight rope on clubs that keep the membership down, so they can hog the field to themself. Many times no one there. But you cannot fly unless someone shows up. They even put up steel chain fences latley. The same club never has any fly-ins to get new people interested. Should they be a charter club??? I want to hear what you readers say about this. I have a question....can you fly at a public owned field when no other club member is there? Does the AMA membership you paid for say you can fly(on public owned land) as long as you do go buy the AMA safty rules. Thanks Capt,n
08-19-2005, 10:07 AM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
Well, for a starter, it is spelled Captain, not Captin.
Did you hear about the guy that often flew by himself, started his engine by reaching over the prop and holding the fuselage with his left hand? The prop came off and hit him under his arm pit where it cut a major artery and he bled to death. He was by himself with no one to help him.
Competition pilots are very professional. It is much more likely that the casual flyer will cause an accident or kill someone on the flying field.
But what the heck, who needs to fly safely. Right?
3dbob
Did you hear about the guy that often flew by himself, started his engine by reaching over the prop and holding the fuselage with his left hand? The prop came off and hit him under his arm pit where it cut a major artery and he bled to death. He was by himself with no one to help him.
Competition pilots are very professional. It is much more likely that the casual flyer will cause an accident or kill someone on the flying field.
But what the heck, who needs to fly safely. Right?
3dbob
08-19-2005, 10:46 AM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
The 2 problems I see with the AMA is Cost and there rules. I went for the 1/2 year rate for 1/2 price. But I had to do the magizine which costs more. The big rule the AMA has I do not like is... You are supposed to abide by the RULES the RC club has where you fly. NOT GOOD. I used to fly at a couple of places where the field is actually owned by the county. All you needed to fly was proof of home insurance for flying RC...or AMA insurance. Us RC people that do not fly in compitetion should ony need basic coverage. Now one of these clubs where I used to fly (which is public land) makes up there own rules...like landing fee...AMA only insurance and only if they like you enough to let you fly. The club I am talking about thinks they own the land...but they don,t. The AMA should tell such clubs to try and support the RC Hobby instead of letting them make up any rule they wish. I do not like it when I pay the AMA and then be jerked around with rules these clubs on public land inforces. The AMA should get that straight...NOW. Also I do understand that clubs with privite fields should be able to make certain rules...ok. I have gone to RC fly- ins where they treat everyone real nice and even have food at the fly in for just a donation. Very nice guys. But the AMA has to keep a tight rope on clubs that keep the membership down, so they can hog the field to themself. Many times no one there. But you cannot fly unless someone shows up. They even put up steel chain fences latley. The same club never has any fly-ins to get new people interested. Should they be a charter club??? I want to hear what you readers say about this. I have a question....can you fly at a public owned field when no other club member is there? Does the AMA membership you paid for say you can fly(on public owned land) as long as you do go buy the AMA safty rules. Thanks Capt,n
The 2 problems I see with the AMA is Cost and there rules. I went for the 1/2 year rate for 1/2 price. But I had to do the magizine which costs more. The big rule the AMA has I do not like is... You are supposed to abide by the RULES the RC club has where you fly. NOT GOOD. I used to fly at a couple of places where the field is actually owned by the county. All you needed to fly was proof of home insurance for flying RC...or AMA insurance. Us RC people that do not fly in compitetion should ony need basic coverage. Now one of these clubs where I used to fly (which is public land) makes up there own rules...like landing fee...AMA only insurance and only if they like you enough to let you fly. The club I am talking about thinks they own the land...but they don,t. The AMA should tell such clubs to try and support the RC Hobby instead of letting them make up any rule they wish. I do not like it when I pay the AMA and then be jerked around with rules these clubs on public land inforces. The AMA should get that straight...NOW. Also I do understand that clubs with privite fields should be able to make certain rules...ok. I have gone to RC fly- ins where they treat everyone real nice and even have food at the fly in for just a donation. Very nice guys. But the AMA has to keep a tight rope on clubs that keep the membership down, so they can hog the field to themself. Many times no one there. But you cannot fly unless someone shows up. They even put up steel chain fences latley. The same club never has any fly-ins to get new people interested. Should they be a charter club??? I want to hear what you readers say about this. I have a question....can you fly at a public owned field when no other club member is there? Does the AMA membership you paid for say you can fly(on public owned land) as long as you do go buy the AMA safty rules. Thanks Capt,n
I am not sure that you understand the nature of the AMA. The AMA is a not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of areomodeling. It is not a police organization. It is not an insurance company, although, as a benefit of membership, you are supplied some insurance that is excess (secondary).
The AMA charters clubs. Clubs are made up of AMA members. The members may organize in pretty much any fashion they like. The AMA imposes very few rules on clubs. You can review the requirements on the AMA site in the club charter package. To put it another way, the day the AMA tells clubs how they must be run, the clubs are likely to tell the AMA to stuff it. Most clubs choose to charter with the AMA because the AMA makes available very inexpensive primary insurance to the land owner, and insurance (primary or excess) for the club and it’s officers.
It may be that you want to read the by-laws of the AMA to better understand it’s purpose in existing. They are contained in the Membership Manual on the AMA site.
Public land may be or may not be controlled by a club. It depends on the political subdivision and what is allowed under law. Essentially, as I understand it, you are covered by your AMA insurance any place you are legally allowed to fly and if you are in compliance with the AMA Safety Code.
08-19-2005, 12:46 PM
#4
RE: AMA and local clubs
And which would you have? A local club with too many rules, allowing you to start a new club with simpler rules or an AMA set of overburdensome national rules that don't apply to anywhere but you have to abide by anyway?
08-19-2005, 01:40 PM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
ORIGINAL: MajorTomski
And which would you have? A local club with too many rules, allowing you to start a new club with simpler rules or an AMA set of overburdensome national rules that don't apply to anywhere but you have to abide by anyway?
And which would you have? A local club with too many rules, allowing you to start a new club with simpler rules or an AMA set of overburdensome national rules that don't apply to anywhere but you have to abide by anyway?
The less restrictions on clubs, the better. Let the clubs decide their goals and how to achieve them.
If an individual is unhappy with the restrictions of a club, he has the same right to form a club and find a field as those that founded the existing club/field did/do.
08-20-2005, 10:28 AM
#6
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RE: AMA and local clubs
Here is a more direct question. Say you went to see a relitive 2-3 counties away. The RC field is know to be a piblic owned property. You want to fly your RC plane. Also you flew there before. Then all of a sudden you find out they now want some people to pay a landing fee to fly. Remember it is not the clubs property. You have AMA insurance. Now is it legal to fly there by youself or with another person....as long as you have AMA insurance and do all the rules the AMA asked you to do? Thanks
08-20-2005, 10:57 AM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
It depends on the position that the political subdivision takes.
As an example, there are two fields fairly close to me on public property. One has an AMA club, but the political subdivision says anyone can fly there. So… anyone can fly there.
The second club has a field that is leased to it by the political subdivision. This club can and does require membership in the club and restricts flying to those that are members of the club.
If you are uncertain, check with the political subdivision and determine what their relationship with the club requires, if anything.
As an example, there are two fields fairly close to me on public property. One has an AMA club, but the political subdivision says anyone can fly there. So… anyone can fly there.
The second club has a field that is leased to it by the political subdivision. This club can and does require membership in the club and restricts flying to those that are members of the club.
If you are uncertain, check with the political subdivision and determine what their relationship with the club requires, if anything.
08-20-2005, 11:17 AM
#8
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RE: AMA and local clubs
How do you check this political subdivision? Who do you talk to? OR email? Is it in a agreement that is on paper? How does one get proof positive? PS 3dbob...a person can spell your handle any way you want!!!! I had to spell it the way I did, because at the time there already was a Captain. Also I would say for me flying alone is just as safe. I have had to run to get out of the way of RC planes a fair amout of times in 30 years of flying RC!!
08-20-2005, 02:55 PM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
My 2 cents,
If it is an open AMA field then that club should allow you to fly at no cost. If it is a private field then they have the right to say get out or pay for the right to fly there.
I have never went on a trip and found a AMA field that I was not allowed to fly there or pay any money.
So what is the club that wants you to pay to fly?
Crash99
If it is an open AMA field then that club should allow you to fly at no cost. If it is a private field then they have the right to say get out or pay for the right to fly there.
I have never went on a trip and found a AMA field that I was not allowed to fly there or pay any money.
So what is the club that wants you to pay to fly?
Crash99
08-20-2005, 09:50 PM
#10
Thread Starter
RE: AMA and local clubs
I do not want to name the club, because I do not want to get that club in trouble with the AMA or any other club. I just want to know my rights after paying for AMA....as far as flying on public property. Thanks
08-20-2005, 10:03 PM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
Well, for a starter, it is spelled Captain, not Captin.
Did you hear about the guy that often flew by himself, started his engine by reaching over the prop and holding the fuselage with his left hand? The prop came off and hit him under his arm pit where it cut a major artery and he bled to death. He was by himself with no one to help him.
Competition pilots are very professional. It is much more likely that the casual flyer will cause an accident or kill someone on the flying field.
But what the heck, who needs to fly safely. Right?
3dbob
in response to 3dbob
(medical terms left out as not to confuse anyone)
in reply, if you were at a rc field that was next door to a level 1 trauma center, and a prop came of or a plane, cutting the blood vessel under your arm, ALL 3 GALLONS OF BLOOD IN YOUR BODY WOULD BE ON THE GROUND IN LESS THAN 1 MINUTE, ANOTHER WORDS YOUR A DEAD (DUCK) (and duck means duck your head cuz some old guy that cant see is fly'en).
so even if their was 100 people standing around, i doubt that anyone would have been able to save him,
dont get mad at me im just stat'en facts.
Did you hear about the guy that often flew by himself, started his engine by reaching over the prop and holding the fuselage with his left hand? The prop came off and hit him under his arm pit where it cut a major artery and he bled to death. He was by himself with no one to help him.
Competition pilots are very professional. It is much more likely that the casual flyer will cause an accident or kill someone on the flying field.
But what the heck, who needs to fly safely. Right?
3dbob
in response to 3dbob
(medical terms left out as not to confuse anyone)
in reply, if you were at a rc field that was next door to a level 1 trauma center, and a prop came of or a plane, cutting the blood vessel under your arm, ALL 3 GALLONS OF BLOOD IN YOUR BODY WOULD BE ON THE GROUND IN LESS THAN 1 MINUTE, ANOTHER WORDS YOUR A DEAD (DUCK) (and duck means duck your head cuz some old guy that cant see is fly'en).
so even if their was 100 people standing around, i doubt that anyone would have been able to save him,
dont get mad at me im just stat'en facts.
08-21-2005, 02:48 PM
#13
RE: AMA and local clubs
ORIGINAL: onyoursix
Personally CaptinJohn, I would listen to MajorTomski. He out ranks you!
Personally CaptinJohn, I would listen to MajorTomski. He out ranks you!
Of course unless he's a Navy Captain.
John. The AMA has absolutely very very little involvement in the operation of a local club. And in this case the lesser is better.
You ask about this apparent conflict over flying fees on public land. My club has the same case. We fly on City owned land. But we have a lease from the city that grants us control of the land. Therefore we are allowed to charge reasonable fees to offset the cost of maintaining city land. Yes, as a tax payer I have some ownership of the land. But the city has leased that land to an organization that has improved and taken care of the land, separate from your taxes.
Part of the lease is that we MUST insure each and every flyer on the property. We cannot mandate AMA insurance but usually adding a specific rider to your homeowners and having proof of it is more expensive than just buying AMA insurance
In your case, as hinted at above, if this is public land, does the club charging landing fees as you call them have a valid lease or contract with the city/county allowing them to do that. If not, form a club, get a contract with the county and take over the land. Of course this may be viewed as apissing contest between to childish bunches of boys, and no one will be allowed to fly there.
Join the club, pay the dues, make the situation legal if you cant do that quit.
08-23-2005, 10:09 PM
#14
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RE: AMA and local clubs
Sheesh I better stop flying alone......lol
There is a point thought.....There are many.....NOT ALL......clubs that are really putting a crimp on this hobby by all their nothing better to do but make up rules, and make up charges....etc.... Hey ya want the club to make money stop runnin people off.
There is a point thought.....There are many.....NOT ALL......clubs that are really putting a crimp on this hobby by all their nothing better to do but make up rules, and make up charges....etc.... Hey ya want the club to make money stop runnin people off.
08-24-2005, 09:25 PM
#15
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RE: AMA and local clubs
CowboyLifesaver: Very well put. It seems like to me some clubs do not want any more than just a handfull of flyers in their club. Not much flying done there. Then you have the clubs that really pomote this RC hobby. Lots of flying there!!!! I myself have taught over 20 people to fly RC planes and I took pride in tuning the engines on there planes. Capt,n
08-24-2005, 09:40 PM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
ORIGINAL: ch3no2
ALL 3 GALLONS OF BLOOD IN YOUR BODY WOULD BE ON THE GROUND IN LESS THAN 1 MINUTE,
ALL 3 GALLONS OF BLOOD IN YOUR BODY WOULD BE ON THE GROUND IN LESS THAN 1 MINUTE,
Now if you were a Vampire and the other 1.5 gallons was in your stomach, that might explain it. LOL. [sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]
Captin,
I wouldn't mind paying a little to help out the local club if I were from out of town. I'm not saying take out a loan or mortgage the house or anything. But I think a couple of dollars for an afternoon of flying is reasonable.
08-25-2005, 09:10 AM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
Hey John, I have never had to pay a landing fee anywhere I've flown. Its nomal for a landing fee at contests or Fly-ins. If you don't like the stupid rules don't fly there. At some public parks I've seen "Parking Fees" but that goes for all using the park not just R/C. I'm going to go give blood today because 3 gallons is over fill here. Good luck with your hunt for Free , No rules, do as you please flying site. Please let me know when you find it so I can move. Thanks. Mike
08-25-2005, 12:30 PM
#18
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RE: AMA and local clubs
We have the same problem here in Sacramento, self appointed rulers of public land.
That makes it nothing more than a Gang turf war where they have
declared themselves the rulers and your just a subject.
Not much different than a gang taking over a public park, leases not withstanding.
Get a copy of the lease,
it usually stipulates greater "public use" of the public land as a condition of the lease.
Sounds as if they are "privatizing" the public land for there own use.
Also contact who "owns" the land, parks and rec's, state,county board....
don't let the bad guys get away with discrimination or favoritism... and you can't have one without the other.
As far As the AMA stepping in: they do have the authority to do so.... but aways choose not to.
If you look at the AMA's Bylaws, they could pull the charter or the memberships of discriminating members.
The AMA bylaws do provide a Procedure for doing this.... although they don't follow there own bylaws ethier.
You could file a complaint in small claims court, but your "relief" will only be Money, not membership rights reinstatement.
Its a tuff road to hoe...... its still discrimination.
That makes it nothing more than a Gang turf war where they have
declared themselves the rulers and your just a subject.
Not much different than a gang taking over a public park, leases not withstanding.
Get a copy of the lease,
it usually stipulates greater "public use" of the public land as a condition of the lease.
Sounds as if they are "privatizing" the public land for there own use.
Also contact who "owns" the land, parks and rec's, state,county board....
don't let the bad guys get away with discrimination or favoritism... and you can't have one without the other.
As far As the AMA stepping in: they do have the authority to do so.... but aways choose not to.
If you look at the AMA's Bylaws, they could pull the charter or the memberships of discriminating members.
The AMA bylaws do provide a Procedure for doing this.... although they don't follow there own bylaws ethier.
You could file a complaint in small claims court, but your "relief" will only be Money, not membership rights reinstatement.
Its a tuff road to hoe...... its still discrimination.
08-25-2005, 05:24 PM
#19
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RE: AMA and local clubs
The AMA hasn't pulled the charter on any of the feilds up here in Northern Nevada. I know they have complaints on them from people who are new to the hobby. They are really good at having their coffee break while they have someone on a buddy box.
08-25-2005, 07:52 PM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
ORIGINAL: John Casey
Get a copy of the lease,
it usually stipulates greater "public use" of the public land as a condition of the lease.
Get a copy of the lease,
it usually stipulates greater "public use" of the public land as a condition of the lease.
Without the lease there would be no flying site. How much "public use" would there be ? Do you really think the local government will allow unrestricted do-what-you-want use of public lands ?
Also contact who "owns" the land, parks and rec's, state,county board....
don't let the bad guys get away with discrimination or favoritism... and you can't have one without the other.
don't let the bad guys get away with discrimination or favoritism... and you can't have one without the other.
Whatcha gonna use for operating capital ? Who will mow the runway or install a paved runway ? How 'bout a sun shelter ? Got one of those in your pocket ?
As far As the AMA stepping in: they do have the authority to do so.... but aways choose not to.
I wonder if you have ever been through the decidedly long process of convincing a city or county parks/recreation department that they should let a bunch of model airplane crazies operate a flying site on city or county land, >particularly< when there are hordes of SoccerMoms with nothing to do but tool around in their BMWs and schlep Little Johnny to soccer games, hordes of SoccerMoms who are firmly convinced that every neighborhood _needs_ a soccer complex.
I'd bet your real gripe is that you don't get to use the flying site which the local club worked hard to secure and to improve, for >free<.
08-29-2005, 11:18 PM
#21
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RE: AMA and local clubs
I wouldn't mind paying a fee to fly at a club feild. Depends on the club. Like AMPS in Phoenix. I used to go out there all the time when I was younger and didn't even have a plane and they were the greatest. Hear they still are. Dang I'm gettin old....lol I wouldn't pay a penny to the clubs up here though. Then again we have our own field far from them but closer to all we could need. Seems our field is growing rapidly too. Heck most of us who started flying there aren't even gettin a chance to fly our own planes because we always have people on the buddy box. Guess we can rack one up for a rebel flying "club". Then again the club guys have a million and 1....(well almost that many)....names for us now. Do I detect a spot of jealousy? Nothin like portable shade, BBQ's, and a runway miles long and wide.
08-31-2005, 01:20 PM
#22
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RE: AMA and local clubs
Thats why I like to fly from BLM land. They say that the AMA has no control over government land and no need to have an AMA card. Fly at your own risk. My kind flying site. Oh ya by the way I used to fly ar El Mirage Dry lake bed 1 mile wide x 6 miles + long. Do a search on here and you can see some nice pics.
08-31-2005, 05:30 PM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
Sounds like the Captin has a lot of sour grapes. If it was not for AMA we would not have a sport/hobby.
I would say get a life and enjoy flying.
If you do not want to be a member do not join, but then do not expect to participate either. If we did not have rules we would be in a war zone. Look at New Orleans right now, no law, just survival.
Cheers,
Chip
I would say get a life and enjoy flying.
If you do not want to be a member do not join, but then do not expect to participate either. If we did not have rules we would be in a war zone. Look at New Orleans right now, no law, just survival.
Cheers,
Chip
08-31-2005, 09:02 PM
#24
RE: AMA and local clubs
CaptinJohn said: <<snip>> They even put up steel chain fences latley. <<snip>>
John, how much do you think that fifty eight bucks gets you? Should an AMA member come mow your lawn, after mowing the field? Provide electricity for the transmitter you forgot to charge? Have a fuel stand at all fields, to dispense free 10%?
What were you going to chip in, for construction and maintenance of that flying field? Labor? Money? Encouragement?
Or were you just going to make nasty posts about how people aren't giving you what you truly deserve?
Dave Olson
08-31-2005, 10:12 PM
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RE: AMA and local clubs
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
The 2 problems I see with the AMA is Cost and there rules. I went for the 1/2 year rate for 1/2 price. But I had to do the magizine which costs more. The big rule the AMA has I do not like is... You are supposed to abide by the RULES the RC club has where you fly. NOT GOOD. I used to fly at a couple of places where the field is actually owned by the county. All you needed to fly was proof of home insurance for flying RC...or AMA insurance. Us RC people that do not fly in compitetion should ony need basic coverage. Now one of these clubs where I used to fly (which is public land) makes up there own rules...like landing fee...AMA only insurance and only if they like you enough to let you fly. The club I am talking about thinks they own the land...but they don,t. The AMA should tell such clubs to try and support the RC Hobby instead of letting them make up any rule they wish. I do not like it when I pay the AMA and then be jerked around with rules these clubs on public land inforces. The AMA should get that straight...NOW. Also I do understand that clubs with privite fields should be able to make certain rules...ok. I have gone to RC fly- ins where they treat everyone real nice and even have food at the fly in for just a donation. Very nice guys. But the AMA has to keep a tight rope on clubs that keep the membership down, so they can hog the field to themself. Many times no one there. But you cannot fly unless someone shows up. They even put up steel chain fences latley. The same club never has any fly-ins to get new people interested. Should they be a charter club??? I want to hear what you readers say about this. I have a question....can you fly at a public owned field when no other club member is there? Does the AMA membership you paid for say you can fly(on public owned land) as long as you do go buy the AMA safty rules. Thanks Capt,n
The 2 problems I see with the AMA is Cost and there rules. I went for the 1/2 year rate for 1/2 price. But I had to do the magizine which costs more. The big rule the AMA has I do not like is... You are supposed to abide by the RULES the RC club has where you fly. NOT GOOD. I used to fly at a couple of places where the field is actually owned by the county. All you needed to fly was proof of home insurance for flying RC...or AMA insurance. Us RC people that do not fly in compitetion should ony need basic coverage. Now one of these clubs where I used to fly (which is public land) makes up there own rules...like landing fee...AMA only insurance and only if they like you enough to let you fly. The club I am talking about thinks they own the land...but they don,t. The AMA should tell such clubs to try and support the RC Hobby instead of letting them make up any rule they wish. I do not like it when I pay the AMA and then be jerked around with rules these clubs on public land inforces. The AMA should get that straight...NOW. Also I do understand that clubs with privite fields should be able to make certain rules...ok. I have gone to RC fly- ins where they treat everyone real nice and even have food at the fly in for just a donation. Very nice guys. But the AMA has to keep a tight rope on clubs that keep the membership down, so they can hog the field to themself. Many times no one there. But you cannot fly unless someone shows up. They even put up steel chain fences latley. The same club never has any fly-ins to get new people interested. Should they be a charter club??? I want to hear what you readers say about this. I have a question....can you fly at a public owned field when no other club member is there? Does the AMA membership you paid for say you can fly(on public owned land) as long as you do go buy the AMA safty rules. Thanks Capt,n
several people have posted videos on their websites that clearly violate noumerous rules has the AMA done anything. that will be a big fat NOPE.
they have also posted video directly to the ama dissicution group with no reply at all.
everyone goes arroung stating and quoting the AMA like they are the FBI or CIA
have you ever heard of the ama doing anything to anyone? besides hear say?
that will be a big fat NOPE !
I think if there was a claim and that person was known to, or be in a video doing something aginst AMA's rules they mite not cover?
sounds logical , but i flunked kindergarden, and i have a drivers licence like most of you.
so in responce to your post, i dont think the ama really cares about anything except making money just like any business does...