Propwash in Pa

Last week one of our club members was seriously injured by the prop of a 1/4 scale. Paramedics were called and he received an armload of stitches. We are sending out a Safety Brief to all club members regarding the learnings. My question deals with flying alone (he was alone at the time and needed the farmer to assist in calling for help).

Does your club have any guidelines regarding flying by yourself? I would like to report out at the next club meetings.

Also, if anyone would want a copy of the Safety Brief, just ask.

Thanks,

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Our club has no rules against stupidity. We can only strongly recommend that people should not fly alone, but if they are alone then there is no one to police them.

timothy thompson

My Feedback: (1)

YOUR ALONE WHEN YOU SOLO FULL SCALE! BRING A PHONE AND USE COMMON SENSE

3dbob37n

Yes, the By-Laws of Macon Aero Modelers require an assistant when flying.
I think most clubs have this requirement.

At a very minimum, a cell phone should be required and don't let those little electrics fool you, the can cut an artery very quickly. Props on them are like razor blades.

3dbob

3dbob37n

And one PS: We also have the GPS latitude and longitude posted clearly on our shed so that a Medi Vac helicopter can find our field. We're kind of out in the woods.


3dbob

Live Wire

You assume all ressponsibity in live don't look to some one else for your stupidtity,seem they are in the same boat

the-plumber

I think most clubs do _not_ have this requirement. In all the clubs I've ever held membership (in three cities in District V and two cities in District X) no such rule existed.

I think it's a good idea, mind you, but in my experience it is not a common rule.

ira d

There is no reason for a club to have a rule that you cant fly alone and
I would say most dont have such a rule.

A lot of people would not get to fly as much if they could not fly alone
and the rule could not be enforced anyway.

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

Our club has never had a rule against flying alone. We strongly advise against it but we also know that common sense cannot be legislated.
My personal position is that if you put yourself in such positions then do not be surprised if you get caught up when Mother Nature runs the filter cycle on the gene pool.[8D]
Red is correct in the statement about enforcement.
If there is any satisfaction to be gained by kicking the body then you might have a rule about not kicking in the face so that they can at least look good for their funeral.

3dbob37n

From a legal point of view, we do have to be careful about making too many rules that we cannot enforce. We run the risk of being sued, or the safety coordinator sued, for not enforcing the rules we make. This can lead a jury to believe that we are sloppy and may find against us.
We eventually could be held liable if someone goes out to retrieve their crashed airplane and has a heart attack and we don't have one of those defillibrators on hand. Should we warn people that they might have a heart attack if they go into the pasture to get their model or that a cow may want to mate with them? I can see it now: Big sign, "Warning, retrieving your model airplane can cause a heart attack." Don't forget that McDonalds is being held liable for forcing people to eat too many burgers and get fat.
Legally, it is not likely that we can avoid being sued for anything when we have some sleezy lawyers and a a court system that is out of control.

dbob

smokingcrater

in addition to what the previous post said, the more rules means more renagade flyers or park flyers going up in the air. entirely 100% unregulated and non-ama... take your pick.

SSRCCPREZ

Our club in MASS. has no rule of not flying alone. We do however have the LAT and LONG posted as well as directions to the field and all emergency phone numbers.
In addition, we have no rule, because it is so highly frowned upon at our field that you feel guilty if you do it. W ehave had no incidents at our field,but there have been mant close calls from pilots being alone and most of us have decided against it or do it extremely rarely. Most of the time I hear things like "hey man I wanna fly one more time before you go,can you stay?

But no rule against it. I am sorry to hear of your incident at your field, and I do hope the person will heal well. And may no rule be neccessary at your club an common sense prevail!!!

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

It sounds like a rule to protect people against themselves. Shouldn't safety rules be to protect us from each other and kept to a minimum?

bhole74

If you couldn't fly alone at our field, you wouldn't get to fly. It seems rare when you actually have someone to fly with. I spent 8 hours at the field Saturday and only had 2 people to fly with for about an hour and a half. Spent the rest of the sunny calm day all by myself.

3dbob37n

Basinbum- Good question- Humanity is filled with projects that are supposed to protect us against ourselves. No Smoking, no swimming, becoming obese, taking drugs, my religion will save your soul, etc, etc, etc. ad naseum.
There is a legal question here, however. The widow of a deceased RC flyer can sue the club or individual members for not enforcing the "no fly alone" rule, even if no one was at the flying site to enforce the rules at the flying site. There might be some salvation if "no flying alone" signs were posted all over the flying site.
When a court can find Vioxx guilty when the plaintiff didn't even die of a heart attack related to Merck's drug, you can see just about anyone can be sued for just about anything.

3dbob

abel_pranger

How about replacing the No Flying Alone rules and signs with Flying Alone Not Recommended?

Abel

SSRCCPREZ

"The Surgeon General Warns against the risks of self inflicted wounds due to aviating solo at this and other facilities."

"The state of _____________ deems the use of an r/c vehicle alone as a high risk event and may cause cancer"

"If noone can see you fly noone can see you die"

3dbob37n

Well, I gotta tell you that on a trip out west a few years ago, I avoided California since everything we buy comes with a lable that states "this thing has been found to cause cancer in the State of California."
Too dangerous to go there I figure.

3dbob

abel_pranger

LOL! Yeah that's the idea.

On a sober note, we really need to be more careful about making club rules. I know many of the rules of clubs I belong to would better be recommendations. Rules that are not enforced vigorously and uniformly aren't worth having and they can lead to trouble, as has already been mentioned. Rules that aren't worth enforcing get forgotten, and also they are tools of control freaks that would enforce them selectively. Club rules are by reference incorporated into the AMA Safety Code, and as such 'failure to comply with them may void your insurance.' Just imagine that situation: somebody in your club gets into a liability situation, and later learns that his insurance coverage may have been voided because he had not been in compliance with some overlooked club rule.
It doesn't make sense to have rules that serve primarily as additional exclusions for the insurance company. Many/most club rules would probably be just as effective if stated as guidelines/recommendations rather than rules.

Abel

Roby

Fly alone ? and why not ? That's one sure way not to be hit
by another plane or have to be concerned about what
others are doing.

I know that if something goes wrong I might be in trouble,
so I'd better be very careful and think about what I'm doing.
AT ALL TIMES.

Here are some of the other things I do alone from time to time.
Use my table saw, skill saws, chain saws, snow blower etc .
Not to mention 99% of the time I drive to and from work alone.

I'm quite sure that I'm safer flying alone at my field than I am on the road
with countless other drivers yapping on their cell phones with no clue
whats going on around them.

Flying alone ? no problem from my point of view. The real dangers seem
to lie elsewhere and everywhere.

The most dangerous part of any flying session is usually getting to and
from the flying field.

Regards
Roby

J_R

It is interesting to note that the largest number of claims each year involve sticking body parts in the arc of a spinning prop. How safe is getting hit by a prop when you are alone (rhetorical question)?

At the same time, when I flew gliders, I never thought twice about flying alone. When I flew 1/2 CL with a stooge, I never thought twice about flying alone.

.40 up, RC or CL, I won't fly alone.

Different strokes for different folks.

One size rules do not fit all.

WingShot

My Feedback: (3)

The main argument against flying by yourself is: if you get hurt from a prop strike (the most common type of injury), severe an artery or smash a bone, and go into shock or pass out, no one will be there to find you.

So the appropriate question is: If you were laying at your flying field, face down, unconscious, losing blood, how long would it be before someone found you? If you fly in a park with a busy jogger's trail 50 foot behind the flight line, then you'd probably get discovered quickly. If you're in the middle of a corn field, it might be a few days before anyone found you.

If your driving to work alone and you have an accident, there's a good chance someone will drive along and find you. But it's probably not the brightest idea to joyride a motorcycle at high speeds through deserted portions of mountaineous terrain by yourself because you might lie there a while before anyone happened upon you. Same for using big, power saws--ya might lay there a while before your wife came back from shopping and found you bleeding and unconscious.


Josh

Propwash in Pa

Wow, seems that this is a good topic. I did want to provide a little clarity regarding why I open this question. I am not looking to make life any more difficult or have any more "rules" that would be difficult or impossible to enforce. I have made a couple of changes since this fellow got hurt. The club bi-laws did "suggest and recommend" that restraints be used and that engines have a remote shut-off. These "suggestions" were not being followed. We had a couple of incidents this year with a loose plane in the pits. Tie-down or restaints along with remote engine kill is now mandentory. Making these items "suggestions and recommendations" were just not effective.

Thants for the feedback.

abel_pranger

Dang, Josh. I do both of those things, and don't even own a wife to find me. Better mend my ways.........

Abel

WingShot

My Feedback: (3)

Haha, nah, not necessarily. I'm not in favor of anyone making any new rules. Just as long as you understand the risks, and the only person you will hurt is yourself, I say do it.