Tim8o)

My Feedback: (1)

Our state (WI), has a flying field a the local state park (Bong Rec.) We've got a few folks who don't carry AMA because they have ther own insurance through their home insurance.

Can the state force them to get there AMA.?

We were all happy and getting along with each other until this one cranky guy starting screaming AMA on the flight line. He went to the ranger complaining. And now they are saying that we have to be AMA to fly there.

I wish I knew what got this guy all worked up. We all seemed to get along and strived for safety.[]

Where do they go now? Across the street? No radio interference control there.

timothy thompson

My Feedback: (1)

if it is not a sactioned club everyone can fly there! AMA covers you no matter where you are if you follow the saftey code. It is untrue you must be in a club to have ama cover you. Only if your gathering turns into a sanctioned club would all membere need ama. I fly off private land no clubs for me! I have ama for the insurance!

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

The state can elect to require AMA or not. It sounds like your friend convinced them they need to probably by pointing out the liability risk they were exposed to. Since the state controls the land (taken from your post), they get to set the rules. If you had a club with a lease on the land from the state, other things might be possible.

Tim8o)

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Timothy Thompson,

Doe's your AMA cover you if it is not an AMA charter field? For ex., Someones sod farm.

I hope this cranky guy does'nt get the Ranger worked up into a lather as much as he is. This cranky guy yells that you have to have AMA. If you don't, he goes and gets the ranger. The ranger then says, Hey I don't need this grief. AMA or not, nobody can fly here anymore.

Do you see my point.
Tim

abel_pranger

Really imbecilic to go to the landlord (ranger) in any case. Now that some whack job has done it though, you need to get the position of whomever is in charge, i.e., State Parks administration (assuming 'they' in 'they are saying' are the rangers, not the braying jackass that made all the noise). Public entities usually frown on private organizations denying the public access to publicly owned resources, though somebody may have talked them into a need for insurance terms that just happen to be what AMA sells. Anyway, you won't likely find what is actually required here. Find somebody in WI State Parks commission (or whatever it is called) and get it from the authoritative source.

Abel

Tim8o)

My Feedback: (1)

Hey cranky guy,

If your reading this, I hope your happy. Especially when you go back to your other AMA sanctioned field that you say you fly at.

Best wishes you (insert insult here)

I'm sorry Art Grabow SR. This guy really got my goat. I'll try to be a better person next time.

Tim,

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Tim, you're covered anywhere you have the land owner (or regulating agency in this case) permission to fly and you fly in accordance with the AMA safety code. The AMA insurance is supplemental to any type of home owners insurance you have as well.

Suitable home owners insurance would probably suffice but that opens up a mess for whomever is running a site. Verifying coverage with AMA is easy. If you have the right colored card, you paid for the year. There's lots of cases in auto insurance where people start a policy, get registrations and drop the policy so they have the card, thats not possible in our case since you pay the full amount up front every year.

The key to happy relations with site owners (unless they themselves are modelers and understand) is to show them they are covered for liability, keep their administrative over head to an absolute minimum, and not put them in a position that people are griping about noise or fly over issues. To most people, complaints about noise, percieved unsafe operations etc just aren't worth the hassle and they would rather close a field to flying than deal with it.

Put a parks department in the position to be mediators or checking insurance cards etc and the only thing flying there will be the birds and the occasional kite.

3dbob37n

Hey, belonging to AMA is a great thing to do because you are supporting your fellow aviation enthusiasts who have worked hard since 1936 to bring you all the goodies and frequencies you now fly with.
Most Homeowners policies only have $300,000.00 Liability and the AMA coverage extends this to something on the order of 5 Million per occurance. Big difference.
However, it is most unpleasant to have a "screamer" amongst your group and especially one so dumb as to go to the landlord as it were.
Hope you guys can get it worked out.


3dbob

timothy thompson

My Feedback: (1)

yup you ARE COVERED ANYWHERE! CLUB MEMBERSHIP NOT REQUIRED

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Typically the state can require AMA, UNTIL SOMEONE CHAlLENGES IT. I am no lawyer, but typically a state cannot require membership in a private organization, even if the intent is to have one specific form of insurance, to utilize a public resource.

I imagine, that if really pushed, they would have to let someone fly without any specific insurance coverage since no special club memberships or insurance are required for other park uses.

I know of two situations where public land is used for RC. One was in St. Louis when I was there, called Buder Park. It was owned by the county and rquired that you obtain a field use permit. Part of the application was proof of insurance, I had AMA so I used that, but I don't recall if it was specifically required.

The other instance is in Omaha. There is a club that uses a public park. In that case, proof of insurance was required, but it did not have to be AMA. Additionally, you didn't have to be a member of the local club to fly there.

I would also ask the ranger where in the state law it specifically states that AMA insurance is required.

On the bright side, at least you may still be able to fly there, in my state, RC is specifically prohibited in state parks.[]

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

P-51 You are right on. BUT if the state sets a minimum of liability coverage...oh... lets say...2.5 mil... huh…just comes to mind for some reason... then I guess the AMA would be a great choice.

But as good AMA members we should honor the prime directive of the Academy and promote the hobby by pushing for ever lower requirements and restrictions!

Make AMA a great choice but not the only choice! Otherwise it is just a matter of time before this hobby/sport is just for the few that can manipulate the system well enough to enjoy it. Oh… BTW that likely will not be anyone that is reading this now.

papermache

My Feedback: (35)

Tim8o,

Rangers have no more say about who-has-to-have-what-to-fly any more than the doorman at the hotel has about who can be a guest. Talk to the Park Manager and get something hammered out. If Wisconsin is anything like Indiana, the Manager of an individual park has pretty broad powers to set policies in that park, especially where there is not a SPECIFIC state rule governing the activity. (and I'll bet there's no specific rule about RC aircraft liability insurance in the WI book) Just keep in mind what you said, though. Don't P*&% him/her off or you just might find yourself out of a flying site. Good luck.

papermache

Tim8o)

My Feedback: (1)

Well this one ranger came over like he was The Duke himself. I was trying not to laugh.

Well I'll tell ya pilgrim. There ain't gonna be no Non-AMA people flying if I can help it. U'ha

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

hmmm...Barney?

papermache

My Feedback: (35)

Tim8o,

The State can require some type of liability insurance from fliers. They can specify the amount of insurance required. They can NOT specify the insurance carrier you must use any more than they can regulate the brand of car you have to have to get a driver's license or the brand of beer you have to sell to hold a liquor license.

This doesn't mean that the park management in question couldn't TRY to require AMA with the veiled threat of shutting down the entire facility if somebody decides to challenge it. Choose your battles carefully. This is a case where you could win the battle and lose the war.

papermache

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Very well said!

Tim8o)

My Feedback: (1)

Papermache,

Your right. But we must all choose and pick our own battles.

Now!, About that beer you just mentioned.


Tim

timothy thompson

My Feedback: (1)

its ony 55 bucks and you get insurance get it and really piss the old fart off!!!!!