RC4ME-RCU

Hi All,

I know that I am new here on the forums and would really like to voice my opinions on all of this stuff about the AMA and club dues.

From what I have been reading in the last few hours in this topic section, I would like to say that I am not impressed.

Once I was talking to a good friend of mine that I met when I had a Flight Sim VA that was on my roster about the R/C Hobby and AMA and such and just thought I would give it a try. Well I have just purchased and built my first trainer (Tower Trainer 40) and have been seeking a club. Well I went to one of the locals and they said that I had to pay a $35.00 annual membership fee. Well when I thought this out, I said to myself why? and what will I get out of it? Well the field is just that a Field with a Flight Board and a Wind Sock. Well when talking to one of the officers of the club I found they had no site, no annual functions and to me he and a few others of the club were kinda very short with their answers to the questions I had, my wife even noticed that as well so I know it was not one of those imagination theories. What does the membership cover other then the right to fly at their field? We have no cover pits, Concrete runways, taxiways and electricty and the such. Where does the money go that the members pay each year? Besides tax's or to maybe the local government or company for leasing the property.

Now the same goes for AMA dues. Where would my $58 go that I pay in for a year besides a few dollars to help pay for the liability insurance that WE all need and about $5-10 for the magazine publication. If I am helping to pay for a New HQ, a so-called Awesome flying field and a museum that I will never see in my lifetime then it is not worth it to me to join either one.

I am very dismayed to say the least about where the dues you must pay go towards.


Sorry this is so long, but I had to voice my opinion and I have many more as to what the clubs and AMA SHOULD do with the fees they collect from their members.

Thanks for allowing me to post...

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

As for club dues, you would have to find out from the club how it is spent. That is up to the club. Could be property taxes, could be saving for that paved runway, could be many things combined.

On the AMA dues, there are several other threads discussing that very topic, so why bother with another?

If the club members you talked to were short, try going back and talking to some different guys. If it still seems the same, find a new club. There is nothing worse than a club full of guys like that.

RC4ME-RCU

I would have posted in one of the other threads on the AMA dues, however I figured I would combine the 2 into one. Sorry...

Ron

Flyfalcons

Our club has a $14,000+ lease. I'd love to pay 35 bucks in dues.

jjmiller1

There are 3 fields by me, and you can't even start your plane without a valid AMA membership. I know that I sure wouldn't want to lose a flying field because some guy impaled someones house, car or worse with his plane from our field and didn't have the AMA insurance to pay for damages. I pay $100 a year to fly my planes, and I'm grateful and surprised that the government still lets us do it. I'd pay $250 a year if that's what it took, maybe more to support the hobby. If it weren't for that $38 club by you, your field might be covered with "No Trespassing" signs.

gfletch1

I'm an AMA member because some field where I fly require it. The need for insurance coverage is obvious. What isn't so well known is that the AMA coverage will usually be considered secondary coverage. That is, if you have any other coverage, it will considered first. If you have a homeowner's policy, you will have coverage under the liability section. I have yet to find a howeowner's policy that denied this coverage.
As for the value of the magazine, I rate it at the bottom of the list of the R/Cmagazines that I get. My .02 worth.

J_R

AMA insurance is still a realatively small part of our dues. It's under $10/year. It is secondary. If you have a real problem, the amount is 2.5 million. For the average homeowner, that is in excess of the normal coverage, which means you have additional protection. If it were not secondary, your dues would be a lot higher.

It also assures you that the member flying next to you has insurance. Peace of mind? priceless.

The club can supply, for the cost of a certificate ($30-$60), insurance for the landlord, and in that instance, the insurance is normally primary. That helps a lot of clubs to get and keep a field.

The magazine costs each adult member about $7.50 a year and satisfies the IRS requirement of a newsletter. I'm not sure you could produce a newsletter that meets the IRS requirements for any less. The income MA produces keeps the cost to this level.

JR

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Hi JR,

In another thread where we discussed the newsletter / mag issue, I said I'd ask my wife if she could explain what the rules are covering the need for a non-profit org to provide a newsletter. (She's an IRS EA).

Non-profit org's is not an area she specialises in, so she spent several hours digging through the laws pertaining to non-profit orgs in an attempt to find this info. So far, she has not found any regulation that makes a newsletter required. One possibility is that it's not actually an IRS requirement for the newsletter, but that the AMA in it's original charter (or the charter as applied in 1969 when the taw laws for non-profit org's changed) that they would provide such a mag / newsletter. The IRS is pretty strict about making you keep to your charter, so it's possible that this is effectively a self-imposed condition that the IRS now holds the AMA to.

Other than that, it could still be an IRS requirement that my wife simply has not found yet. Since you repeatedly make reference to this requirement, can you provide details of where it comes from ?

Also, I assume that the AMA is a C3 (Sports) rather than C7 (Hobby) org... please correct me if I am wrong.

Regs,
Gordon

J_R

Gordon

First, I have no personal knowledge of the newsletter requirement. It is all what has been told to me by AMA officials on one occasion or another, some dating back a lot of years.

It is my understanding that the 501(3)c status of the AMA is not for sports, but, as an educational foundation. As I understand, the AMA 501(3)c status is under constant scrutiny by the IRS. That is the reason for a lot of programs, even the Delta Dart program. It's instructive, i.e. educational. The 'Focus on Education' Column in MA is another example. We even have an AMA Education Director: Jack Frost.

This is the best document that I can 'almost' read on the IRS web site: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdf . If you read through the document, with particular attention to page 20, you will find the mention of items that may be of interest.

Also, If you look at the by-laws of the AMA, you will find that in Article II, Purposes, reference to several kinds of documents to be communicated to members is made. This may very well be the source of any requirement.

I am not sure where to even look to find definitive information on the AMA, relative to this issue. I have always relied on what VP's and other officials have said. Maybe it's a case of: if you hear it enough times, it must be true.

It seems to me that Horrace Cain has mentioned being in on the decision to send the magazine to all, when he was a VP, and he may be a source of information. If I recall correctly, the current EVP, Doug Holland has stated he has a tax background. Possibly one of the two might have some answers. It could very well be that only the auditor's know for sure.

LOL. After the time I spent on the IRS site, I am willing to accept what anyone says, just so I don't have to do that again.

JR

Dave Bowles

My Feedback: (7)

1st - If you are not comfortable with the club and are not friendly then look else where, But , someone does have to keep the the grass mowed, someone is probably paying taxes on the land , depending on how many members there are, $35 per year may be pretty cheap just for a field. There are about 9 clubs in my area , only one has an Asphalt surface, another (MY Club) uses "Petromat" for the runway , its like a heavy Tarp. the rest are grass, one club's dues are 250.00 per year (Private Club), the rest are in the 40s.

2nd , Regardless of how the money is spent or broken down you are not going to find a secondary Liability Policy for 2.5 mil. with almost no questions asked for $58 bucks a year. If it were not for the AMA or similar organization monitoring the safety side of our hobby we would not have the insurance at all. So if you must justify the cost , maybe look at how much you are saving from finding insurance of your own , and as mentioned the peace of mine the other guys are covered as well.

3rd- Everybody had better look at the Homeowners Policies before assuming you are covered for liability for Model Airplanes . Mine covers up to 1 mil. , IMO it is not enough.

Outlw36

My Feedback: (1)

Don't believe my homeowners insurance would pay a nickle since my truck is at the field and not my house.

Jim Allen

raistlin12

My Feedback: (1)

In reading these posts, a number of them complain about how poor MA is for an RC mag. Well guess what...it isn't one! It's a mag with sections/departments covering all aspects of the model aviation hobby. That's FF,C/L, indoor, speed, etc. Sometimes in our zeal for our side of the hobby we become arrogant, in that we believe the AMA should exist only for us. It doesn't, it exists for all aspects of the hobby. When I flew C/L combat, I felt it was a waste of my dues to fight with the FCC over frequencies for the elitest RCers. Now that I am one, I'm glad they ignored my attitude, and acquired the frequencies we use, today, even though they are shared and not exclusive.

Sometimes I think we complain about the AMA because we have blinders on, and not because they don't promote the entire hobby of model aviation.

dennis1943

My Feedback: (12)

talked to Jim Mcneill today, the dist. 5 vp and he says that the ec repealed the dues for CDS that there will be no half fee this year free for cds who have worked a function this year.

dennis1943