IMAA Board Meeting
10-02-2005, 07:28 PM
#26
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
O.K. guys. Let's knock it off with the personal attacks. Let's get back to the subject at hand, and that is how to make the IMAA a more viable organization. It's obvious that ET doesn't care one iota about IMAA, but that's his prerogative, and his opinion, and he is certainly entitled to that.
I dropped out of IMAA because I no longer fly at IMAA meets; the magazine was getting stale; and that was my prime reason for staying a member. All of my models are self designed; all are either WW-I or civilian type aircraft; and this type of model just doesn't cut it amongst all of the big Caps, Extras, Yaks, and the like. My models are also "stale" in this type of environment, but that wasn't the case twenty five years ago.
Frank P. pointed out what I would classify as extremely poor management with regards to the monies in the IMAA coffers. Who is responsible for such a gross mistake? Will they be reprimanded, or will they be re-elected so they can do it all over again? The point is, in my 24 years as a member, I never once had the opportunity to vote on what took place in the oval office, and until that problem is addressed, then I believe that IMAA has no real future. All the rules and regulations laid down by the IMAA were by the management, and jammed down the throats of the membership, whether they liked it or not.
The magazine now has little to offer. Throw away all the pictures of the Caps, Extras, Yaks, and Stingers, and put some meat into the magazine in their place. Change the magazine into a "learning" magazine, so that the customer can't wait until the next one arrives. I have them all going back to the very first issues, and in the beginning, there were articles of this nature.
IMAA has a lot of work to do, and I hope they are successful. Just come up with a real "good magazine", and I'll rejoin in a minute. I'm sick of just looking at pictures of airplanes on the ground, most of them ARF's made in China.
I dropped out of IMAA because I no longer fly at IMAA meets; the magazine was getting stale; and that was my prime reason for staying a member. All of my models are self designed; all are either WW-I or civilian type aircraft; and this type of model just doesn't cut it amongst all of the big Caps, Extras, Yaks, and the like. My models are also "stale" in this type of environment, but that wasn't the case twenty five years ago.
Frank P. pointed out what I would classify as extremely poor management with regards to the monies in the IMAA coffers. Who is responsible for such a gross mistake? Will they be reprimanded, or will they be re-elected so they can do it all over again? The point is, in my 24 years as a member, I never once had the opportunity to vote on what took place in the oval office, and until that problem is addressed, then I believe that IMAA has no real future. All the rules and regulations laid down by the IMAA were by the management, and jammed down the throats of the membership, whether they liked it or not.
The magazine now has little to offer. Throw away all the pictures of the Caps, Extras, Yaks, and Stingers, and put some meat into the magazine in their place. Change the magazine into a "learning" magazine, so that the customer can't wait until the next one arrives. I have them all going back to the very first issues, and in the beginning, there were articles of this nature.
IMAA has a lot of work to do, and I hope they are successful. Just come up with a real "good magazine", and I'll rejoin in a minute. I'm sick of just looking at pictures of airplanes on the ground, most of them ARF's made in China.
10-02-2005, 08:45 PM
#27
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Actually, it was Bill Northrup of Model Builder fame, who came up with the concept of "giant scale". His idea was to build large, light, Cub type models that were really nothing more than large, controlled free flight models. My buddy bought, must have been around '73 or so, one of the first Nosen Champs and powered it with a .60; it flew just as Bill envisioned. About a year or two later the trend started with heavier/more powerful model/engine combinations.
BRG,
Jon
BRG,
Jon
10-02-2005, 08:58 PM
#28
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
ORIGINAL: F106A
Actually, it was Bill Northrup of Model Builder fame, who came up with the concept of "giant scale". His idea was to build large, light, Cub type models that were really nothing more than large, controlled free flight models. My buddy bought, must have been around '73 or so, one of the first Nosen Champs and powered it with a .60; it flew just as Bill envisioned. About a year or two later the trend started with heavier/more powerful model/engine combinations.
BRG,
Jon
Actually, it was Bill Northrup of Model Builder fame, who came up with the concept of "giant scale". His idea was to build large, light, Cub type models that were really nothing more than large, controlled free flight models. My buddy bought, must have been around '73 or so, one of the first Nosen Champs and powered it with a .60; it flew just as Bill envisioned. About a year or two later the trend started with heavier/more powerful model/engine combinations.
BRG,
Jon
I have a Miniature Aircraft Nine Foot Taylorcraft that dates back to 1939. Quarter scale, for a spark 60 or 99 free flight. Technically, it's giant scale, but practically, it has little to do with the later Giant Scale models that began in the seventies.
10-02-2005, 09:22 PM
#29
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
OK Jim, back to the topic.....
I fly 1/4 scale aerobats. Learning to set them up was a pretty good learning curve and I relied on two sources, guys at the field and RCUniverse. One of the local clubs that share the field where I fly is the Giant Scale Squadron which is made up of mostly older guys (60 and over) who fly scale warbirds, Cubs, etc. not the aerobatic stuff I fly. They hold two or three giant scale funflies a year which are very well attended and the only referance to IMAA is they use their qualifications to determine what is "giant scale".
So for me to join IMAA they would have to cater to the larger aerobatic guys like myself but there are already several groups that are way ahead of them, Flying Cirkus and IMAC to name two. There is so much information and readily available equipment for folks who want to build scale stuff that a book would be a waste of resources and obsolete within a year of it's printing. Even a magazine is way behind these days when it comes to electric power compared to the Internet.
Now my only experiance with IMAA is on RCU and that was mostly concerning the "$500 worth of merchandise" promotion for renewing members which made me think the leadership were asleep at the wheel for ever allowing that debacle to take place.
So somebody please tell me what reason based on the recent past or forseeable future the IMAA has any value to me.
I fly 1/4 scale aerobats. Learning to set them up was a pretty good learning curve and I relied on two sources, guys at the field and RCUniverse. One of the local clubs that share the field where I fly is the Giant Scale Squadron which is made up of mostly older guys (60 and over) who fly scale warbirds, Cubs, etc. not the aerobatic stuff I fly. They hold two or three giant scale funflies a year which are very well attended and the only referance to IMAA is they use their qualifications to determine what is "giant scale".
So for me to join IMAA they would have to cater to the larger aerobatic guys like myself but there are already several groups that are way ahead of them, Flying Cirkus and IMAC to name two. There is so much information and readily available equipment for folks who want to build scale stuff that a book would be a waste of resources and obsolete within a year of it's printing. Even a magazine is way behind these days when it comes to electric power compared to the Internet.
Now my only experiance with IMAA is on RCU and that was mostly concerning the "$500 worth of merchandise" promotion for renewing members which made me think the leadership were asleep at the wheel for ever allowing that debacle to take place.
So somebody please tell me what reason based on the recent past or forseeable future the IMAA has any value to me.
10-03-2005, 08:22 AM
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
They are the AMA SIG for giant scale and the dues are only $20.00, hardly a sum that's going to have any economic impact on most giant scale modelers.
BRG,
Jon
BRG,
Jon
10-03-2005, 08:31 AM
#31
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
ORIGINAL: F106A
They are the AMA SIG for giant scale and the dues are only $20.00, hardly a sum that's going to have any economic impact on most giant scale modelers.
BRG,
Jon
They are the AMA SIG for giant scale and the dues are only $20.00, hardly a sum that's going to have any economic impact on most giant scale modelers.
BRG,
Jon
I think the problem is people don't really feel like they are getting anything at all for their money, except the right to fly at IMAA events.
Which is why membership is declining so rapidly.
Here you have Jim Messer, a member for 25+ years, deciding it's not even worth $20. Why?
10-03-2005, 10:20 AM
#33
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Easytiger,
I find it really funny that your last two posts almost exactly echo the battle I fought years ago, and lost. The problem is not the organization, but as Jim Messer clearly indicated, the 'leadership'. That bunch of folks has managed to turn a good thing into something good modelers are now ashamed of as it no longer brings good to the community.
To put a point on it, the magazine not only has poor content, but it typically is late, filled with mistakes, and not useful to anyone other that a recycler. In addition to that it has become an expense where it used to make money. Speaking of money, when the IMAA turned south dues were $15 and there was about $238,000 in the bank as reserve, over 12,000 members and growing. The first steps in turning the organization around were to raise the dues because they had not been raised before and get a new editor. The status today is a direct result of those moves and other mistakes. However, pounding on one of the 'white hats' who lead the IMAA into this mess does not accomplish much other than venting spleen, hence my not uncomplimentary remarks to Frank Ponterri who lead the IMAA into its current problems with his ideas and unwillingness to listen to reason.
At one time I had paid my dues ahead for 10 years. Then Frank got elected and began to lead the charge into oblivion. I made many observations (that have since proved to be accurate) and strongly suggested moderation only to be pounded on as being out of step. I finally asked for a refund of dues not earned since it was clear to me that the organization needed more money and I was going to pay the higher dues in support. My accountant told me the words to use in my request as they meant dues for future years since the current years dues were already earned. After some unpleasant public discussions with Frank the future dues were refunded. Several weeks later I was astounded when the current dues were refunded and I was out of the organization as the president ordered, or so said the letter that came with the final check. I even called the secretary treasurer to find out what was going on. There are public records of those actions all over the place in addition to the implications of litigation against me by the president of the IMAA. So in short, when Frank says he never threw anyone out of the IMAA he is twisting the truth into something else.
I have since rejoined while playing with some friends who are unhappy life members at events so the $20 is no big deal, but the abuse of the money is. I am no longer sure that the IMAA is much more than a vacation plan for some on the east coast paid for by the rest of us because all of the BoD meetings are in nice places that are not cheap. I am not ready to think Frank has turned around, but the moves shown in this letter are encouraging. Rather than pounding the letter writer into the sand as he so richly deserves for his previous actions, I prefer to push for the positive change the letter suggests. If nothing comes of it but more smoke and mirrors then the IMAA will die and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it.
I started playing with large scale aircraft before the IMAA, played with them without the IMAA, and will continue playing with them until there is a law against them. In short, the IMAA is not necessary, but then neither is fine wine with your steak. Yes, the IMAA has been very sick but I am not convinced it HAS to be terminal. Should we take the ARF approach and leave it to wither and die, or try to change it into something better? I know that your vote and my vote are in, but I wonder what others will say.
Jim Branaum
IMAA 15990
I find it really funny that your last two posts almost exactly echo the battle I fought years ago, and lost. The problem is not the organization, but as Jim Messer clearly indicated, the 'leadership'. That bunch of folks has managed to turn a good thing into something good modelers are now ashamed of as it no longer brings good to the community.
To put a point on it, the magazine not only has poor content, but it typically is late, filled with mistakes, and not useful to anyone other that a recycler. In addition to that it has become an expense where it used to make money. Speaking of money, when the IMAA turned south dues were $15 and there was about $238,000 in the bank as reserve, over 12,000 members and growing. The first steps in turning the organization around were to raise the dues because they had not been raised before and get a new editor. The status today is a direct result of those moves and other mistakes. However, pounding on one of the 'white hats' who lead the IMAA into this mess does not accomplish much other than venting spleen, hence my not uncomplimentary remarks to Frank Ponterri who lead the IMAA into its current problems with his ideas and unwillingness to listen to reason.
At one time I had paid my dues ahead for 10 years. Then Frank got elected and began to lead the charge into oblivion. I made many observations (that have since proved to be accurate) and strongly suggested moderation only to be pounded on as being out of step. I finally asked for a refund of dues not earned since it was clear to me that the organization needed more money and I was going to pay the higher dues in support. My accountant told me the words to use in my request as they meant dues for future years since the current years dues were already earned. After some unpleasant public discussions with Frank the future dues were refunded. Several weeks later I was astounded when the current dues were refunded and I was out of the organization as the president ordered, or so said the letter that came with the final check. I even called the secretary treasurer to find out what was going on. There are public records of those actions all over the place in addition to the implications of litigation against me by the president of the IMAA. So in short, when Frank says he never threw anyone out of the IMAA he is twisting the truth into something else.
I have since rejoined while playing with some friends who are unhappy life members at events so the $20 is no big deal, but the abuse of the money is. I am no longer sure that the IMAA is much more than a vacation plan for some on the east coast paid for by the rest of us because all of the BoD meetings are in nice places that are not cheap. I am not ready to think Frank has turned around, but the moves shown in this letter are encouraging. Rather than pounding the letter writer into the sand as he so richly deserves for his previous actions, I prefer to push for the positive change the letter suggests. If nothing comes of it but more smoke and mirrors then the IMAA will die and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it.
I started playing with large scale aircraft before the IMAA, played with them without the IMAA, and will continue playing with them until there is a law against them. In short, the IMAA is not necessary, but then neither is fine wine with your steak. Yes, the IMAA has been very sick but I am not convinced it HAS to be terminal. Should we take the ARF approach and leave it to wither and die, or try to change it into something better? I know that your vote and my vote are in, but I wonder what others will say.
Jim Branaum
IMAA 15990
10-03-2005, 10:38 AM
#34
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Jim,
I am glad to see that I have your attention! I have learned a long time ago that it is futile to enter into a war of words with you. I am very hapy to stand by my record over the past twenty years.
My decision to post on this site was made because I feel the IMAA is at a crossroads. Changes must be made if we are going to survive. Some of the things that I have held near and dear in the past can no longer hold muster in our changing times. I will continue to keep the membership informed by posting on this site, however, I will not enter into any discussion that becomes personal in nature and does nothing to improve the IMAA.
Frank Ponteri
IMAA 5085
I am glad to see that I have your attention! I have learned a long time ago that it is futile to enter into a war of words with you. I am very hapy to stand by my record over the past twenty years.
My decision to post on this site was made because I feel the IMAA is at a crossroads. Changes must be made if we are going to survive. Some of the things that I have held near and dear in the past can no longer hold muster in our changing times. I will continue to keep the membership informed by posting on this site, however, I will not enter into any discussion that becomes personal in nature and does nothing to improve the IMAA.
Frank Ponteri
IMAA 5085
10-03-2005, 11:35 AM
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
ET,
" think the problem is people don't really feel like they are getting anything at all for their money, except the right to fly at IMAA events."
What return I get on the $20 is precisely that, being able to fly at Delaware Warbirds and Binghamton.
Also, I'm totally against ANY competition, there's penty of events that the competition modeler can go, leave the IMMA meets alone.
It starts with a people's choice award, then grows to the lowest inverted pass award, and will continue to grow until the fun flys become just another IMAC meet, and I have no interest in going away to a meet and spending a weekend watching guys do torque rolls all day long.
When competition starts rearing it's ugly head then I'll start thinking about getting out of IMMA.
I was talking to my son about the whole IMMA situation he reminded me when he and I started to go to IMMA fun flys many years ago, he was one the youngest pilot's there, most being my age. Now, when we go to a jet meet, I'm one of the oldest pilot's there, most being his age. Funny how things go full circle.
BRG,
Jon
" think the problem is people don't really feel like they are getting anything at all for their money, except the right to fly at IMAA events."
What return I get on the $20 is precisely that, being able to fly at Delaware Warbirds and Binghamton.
Also, I'm totally against ANY competition, there's penty of events that the competition modeler can go, leave the IMMA meets alone.
It starts with a people's choice award, then grows to the lowest inverted pass award, and will continue to grow until the fun flys become just another IMAC meet, and I have no interest in going away to a meet and spending a weekend watching guys do torque rolls all day long.
When competition starts rearing it's ugly head then I'll start thinking about getting out of IMMA.
I was talking to my son about the whole IMMA situation he reminded me when he and I started to go to IMMA fun flys many years ago, he was one the youngest pilot's there, most being my age. Now, when we go to a jet meet, I'm one of the oldest pilot's there, most being his age. Funny how things go full circle.
BRG,
Jon
10-03-2005, 07:16 PM
#36
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Attention: District One IMAA Members
A motion has been presented for board consideration by the District Four Director. This motion asks the Board to approve the additional expense to add color pages to the next issue of High Flight. The pages would be used for Chapter Events. The motion asks for $1,600.00. DISTRICT ONE will vote NO on this motion.
I did request that this motion be tabled until the January Board meeting to give the Board additional time to study and discuss the matter. The request was denied.
Although I feel additional color pages would be a nice addition to the publication, I cannot support any additional funding until such time as the new board takes over on 1/1/06 and has the opportunity to study and review the 2006 budget.
I have presented a motion to the board to resolve the issue of the IMAA Handbook. It is my belief that the IMAA will suffer a loss on this printing as reported in my newsletter. I have proposed that the remaining copies be given to members at the trade shows and other district events. I do not feel we should spend any more IMAA funds to ship the publication around the country in an effort to sell them.
Frank V. Ponteri
District One Director
The opinions expressed in this message are solely that of the autthor's.
A motion has been presented for board consideration by the District Four Director. This motion asks the Board to approve the additional expense to add color pages to the next issue of High Flight. The pages would be used for Chapter Events. The motion asks for $1,600.00. DISTRICT ONE will vote NO on this motion.
I did request that this motion be tabled until the January Board meeting to give the Board additional time to study and discuss the matter. The request was denied.
Although I feel additional color pages would be a nice addition to the publication, I cannot support any additional funding until such time as the new board takes over on 1/1/06 and has the opportunity to study and review the 2006 budget.
I have presented a motion to the board to resolve the issue of the IMAA Handbook. It is my belief that the IMAA will suffer a loss on this printing as reported in my newsletter. I have proposed that the remaining copies be given to members at the trade shows and other district events. I do not feel we should spend any more IMAA funds to ship the publication around the country in an effort to sell them.
Frank V. Ponteri
District One Director
The opinions expressed in this message are solely that of the autthor's.
10-04-2005, 04:28 AM
#37
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Well I'm sorry to say, but I won't be a member of the IMAA in 2006..My interests are scale,not Yaks,extra 300's,etc and 3-D stuff..I've noticed that Warbirds rallys,any size is the way to go..Several around here and only AMA membership is required...Also the magazine is stale,and another thing,for example,getting the mag in July with all the events for June,are in the book..Talk about being late..It's been a good ride,but I feel that that IMAA has nothing to offer anymore..Besides the price of gas,and being retired and on a budget, does stop me from going to the fun flys I'd like to attend...Like I said before,it's been a great ride,and good luck to the IMAA in the future......
X-member # 7702
10-04-2005, 05:55 AM
#38
RE: IMAA Board Meeting
For what it's worth, here is an email I wrote around June of 2001 and put on the IMAA yahoo group at that time. This is in reference to the down slide of the IMAA and the AMA elections at that time.
Yes, I am also an EX-IMAA member.
--------- now the email ----------
Where do you go from here?
When the IMAA was formed in the 1980 era, there was a need for an organization to mentor the larger aircraft.
Now IMAA type of aircraft are the norm. I believe that one can see that the IMAA umbrella is no longer required or desired for a giant fly in. The IMAA chant of inspections and no trophies are two of the reasons that clubs are not sanctioning with the IMAA.
So where do you go from here? How many here remember the March of Dimes organization? It was an organization to rid the world of Polio. What has happened to it? If my memory serves me, it realized that Polio was cured and since it was no longer needed for that cause and with and organization already in place it transformed to a group to fight birth defects. Same organization but slightly different cause, but still within in lines of its original mission. What does this have to do with the IMAA?
Since the large plane is now the norm, up to 55 pounds, the IMAA organization should shift gears and get Mr. Tiano to run for IMAA president. The IMAA should foster the real big planes, over 55 pounds since the inspection process is already in place. Second, an insurance program only for the Giant/Giant planes would be available via the IMAA. Yes, keep the IMAA a SIG and the additional insurance would be an add on. This way several situations would be solved. The IMAA would still have a mission. Mr. Tiano would get what he wants. And me among others would not have to pay probable increased dues to cover the liability for the Giant/Giant planes that we never intend to fly.
By all means, don't do as England has done and involve the FAA. You never wake up a sleeping bear. They are interested in man carrying planes so don't involve them in RPV's.
------ end email -----
Yes, I am also an EX-IMAA member.
--------- now the email ----------
Where do you go from here?
When the IMAA was formed in the 1980 era, there was a need for an organization to mentor the larger aircraft.
Now IMAA type of aircraft are the norm. I believe that one can see that the IMAA umbrella is no longer required or desired for a giant fly in. The IMAA chant of inspections and no trophies are two of the reasons that clubs are not sanctioning with the IMAA.
So where do you go from here? How many here remember the March of Dimes organization? It was an organization to rid the world of Polio. What has happened to it? If my memory serves me, it realized that Polio was cured and since it was no longer needed for that cause and with and organization already in place it transformed to a group to fight birth defects. Same organization but slightly different cause, but still within in lines of its original mission. What does this have to do with the IMAA?
Since the large plane is now the norm, up to 55 pounds, the IMAA organization should shift gears and get Mr. Tiano to run for IMAA president. The IMAA should foster the real big planes, over 55 pounds since the inspection process is already in place. Second, an insurance program only for the Giant/Giant planes would be available via the IMAA. Yes, keep the IMAA a SIG and the additional insurance would be an add on. This way several situations would be solved. The IMAA would still have a mission. Mr. Tiano would get what he wants. And me among others would not have to pay probable increased dues to cover the liability for the Giant/Giant planes that we never intend to fly.
By all means, don't do as England has done and involve the FAA. You never wake up a sleeping bear. They are interested in man carrying planes so don't involve them in RPV's.
------ end email -----
10-04-2005, 08:38 AM
#39
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
ORIGINAL: F106A
ET,
" think the problem is people don't really feel like they are getting anything at all for their money, except the right to fly at IMAA events."
What return I get on the $20 is precisely that, being able to fly at Delaware Warbirds and Binghamton.
Also, I'm totally against ANY competition, there's penty of events that the competition modeler can go, leave the IMMA meets alone.
It starts with a people's choice award, then grows to the lowest inverted pass award, and will continue to grow until the fun flys become just another IMAC meet, and I have no interest in going away to a meet and spending a weekend watching guys do torque rolls all day long.
When competition starts rearing it's ugly head then I'll start thinking about getting out of IMMA.
I was talking to my son about the whole IMMA situation he reminded me when he and I started to go to IMMA fun flys many years ago, he was one the youngest pilot's there, most being my age. Now, when we go to a jet meet, I'm one of the oldest pilot's there, most being his age. Funny how things go full circle.
BRG,
Jon
ET,
" think the problem is people don't really feel like they are getting anything at all for their money, except the right to fly at IMAA events."
What return I get on the $20 is precisely that, being able to fly at Delaware Warbirds and Binghamton.
Also, I'm totally against ANY competition, there's penty of events that the competition modeler can go, leave the IMMA meets alone.
It starts with a people's choice award, then grows to the lowest inverted pass award, and will continue to grow until the fun flys become just another IMAC meet, and I have no interest in going away to a meet and spending a weekend watching guys do torque rolls all day long.
When competition starts rearing it's ugly head then I'll start thinking about getting out of IMMA.
I was talking to my son about the whole IMMA situation he reminded me when he and I started to go to IMMA fun flys many years ago, he was one the youngest pilot's there, most being my age. Now, when we go to a jet meet, I'm one of the oldest pilot's there, most being his age. Funny how things go full circle.
BRG,
Jon
Which leaves a problem...
Interest in your basic IMAA plane like a Ziroli Stearman is waning.
Interest in IMAC type planes like a 33% Extra is growing hugely. And IMAC type stuff is competitive by nature.
So maybe there is no way for IMAC to really accomodate the giant scale aerobats.
I think most of the people here posting seem to be agreeing that this organization has run its course.
10-04-2005, 08:49 AM
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Attention District One IMAA Members.
I have just been informed that the motions to increase the number of color pages in High Flight as well as the motion to eliminate the inventory of IMAA Handbooks, have been tabled until the January Board meeting. I believe the membership will be better served by this action.
Frank V. Ponteri
District One IMAA Director
10-04-2005, 09:02 AM
#41
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Good move. Color is not CONTENT. You need content.
It's funny, wasn't there a move some time back to make the District Report pages in MA in Color? I could not beleive that they, straight-faced, tried to pull that. If I'm going to pay for more color pages, about the LAST thing I want to see is a bunch of cheesy snapshots of modellers shaking hands with an AVP at a funfly! You gotta be KIDDING!
It's funny, wasn't there a move some time back to make the District Report pages in MA in Color? I could not beleive that they, straight-faced, tried to pull that. If I'm going to pay for more color pages, about the LAST thing I want to see is a bunch of cheesy snapshots of modellers shaking hands with an AVP at a funfly! You gotta be KIDDING!
10-04-2005, 09:22 AM
#42
Senior Member
RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Giant Scale isn't that special any more. Anyone who can read a manual can assemble a GS ARF and there are a number of GS kits that have a very straightforward build. Any questions someone has about a build or setup of a GS plane only has to go to an internet forum to get some very good advise.
10-04-2005, 11:04 AM
#43
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Et,
Several years back my son and I went to a couple of IMAC events. If you're into competition, I guess it's OK. We spent all day at the meet and got in 3 flights. If I was at a fun fly, we would've had 3 flights in the first hour. This isn't a knock against IMAC, it's just that we go to the meets to fly and at any competion event you're limited in the number of flights you can make in a day.
My son was interested in getting a large scale aerobat model so he asked the various modelers what they thought of the kit, how was it to build, etc. When I asked him what he found out, he said he found out that nobody builds anymore! Most either had the plane built for them or they were ARF's. I was surprised because most of the non-aerobat models at fun flys are built by the modeler and I assumed it was the same for IMAC type models. Guess I was wrong!
BRG,
Jon
Several years back my son and I went to a couple of IMAC events. If you're into competition, I guess it's OK. We spent all day at the meet and got in 3 flights. If I was at a fun fly, we would've had 3 flights in the first hour. This isn't a knock against IMAC, it's just that we go to the meets to fly and at any competion event you're limited in the number of flights you can make in a day.
My son was interested in getting a large scale aerobat model so he asked the various modelers what they thought of the kit, how was it to build, etc. When I asked him what he found out, he said he found out that nobody builds anymore! Most either had the plane built for them or they were ARF's. I was surprised because most of the non-aerobat models at fun flys are built by the modeler and I assumed it was the same for IMAC type models. Guess I was wrong!
BRG,
Jon
10-04-2005, 11:34 AM
#44
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
ORIGINAL: F106A
Et,
Several years back my son and I went to a couple of IMAC events. If you're into competition, I guess it's OK. We spent all day at the meet and got in 3 flights. If I was at a fun fly, we would've had 3 flights in the first hour. This isn't a knock against IMAC, it's just that we go to the meets to fly and at any competion event you're limited in the number of flights you can make in a day.
My son was interested in getting a large scale aerobat model so he asked the various modelers what they thought of the kit, how was it to build, etc. When I asked him what he found out, he said he found out that nobody builds anymore! Most either had the plane built for them or they were ARF's. I was surprised because most of the non-aerobat models at fun flys are built by the modeler and I assumed it was the same for IMAC type models. Guess I was wrong!
BRG,
Jon
Et,
Several years back my son and I went to a couple of IMAC events. If you're into competition, I guess it's OK. We spent all day at the meet and got in 3 flights. If I was at a fun fly, we would've had 3 flights in the first hour. This isn't a knock against IMAC, it's just that we go to the meets to fly and at any competion event you're limited in the number of flights you can make in a day.
My son was interested in getting a large scale aerobat model so he asked the various modelers what they thought of the kit, how was it to build, etc. When I asked him what he found out, he said he found out that nobody builds anymore! Most either had the plane built for them or they were ARF's. I was surprised because most of the non-aerobat models at fun flys are built by the modeler and I assumed it was the same for IMAC type models. Guess I was wrong!
BRG,
Jon
The other is a fun fly thing, with most(but not all) models being built, non-competition.
One is waxing, the other is waning.
10-04-2005, 11:36 AM
#45
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
ORIGINAL: Flyfalcons
Giant Scale isn't that special any more. Anyone who can read a manual can assemble a GS ARF and there are a number of GS kits that have a very straightforward build. Any questions someone has about a build or setup of a GS plane only has to go to an internet forum to get some very good advise.
Giant Scale isn't that special any more. Anyone who can read a manual can assemble a GS ARF and there are a number of GS kits that have a very straightforward build. Any questions someone has about a build or setup of a GS plane only has to go to an internet forum to get some very good advise.
Giant scale, like you say, is just not that special anymore. Somebody showed up at the field with a Byron Mustang 20 years ago, it was a big deal. Biggest thing out there, most expensive kit...20 years later, it's just another plane at the field.
10-04-2005, 09:09 PM
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
ORIGINAL: BasinBum
Now my only experiance with IMAA is on RCU and that was mostly concerning the "$500 worth of merchandise" promotion for renewing members which made me think the leadership were asleep at the wheel for ever allowing that debacle to take place.
So somebody please tell me what reason based on the recent past or forseeable future the IMAA has any value to me.
Now my only experiance with IMAA is on RCU and that was mostly concerning the "$500 worth of merchandise" promotion for renewing members which made me think the leadership were asleep at the wheel for ever allowing that debacle to take place.
So somebody please tell me what reason based on the recent past or forseeable future the IMAA has any value to me.
The 'internet shopping spree', and a couple of other threads here on RCU about the IMAA officer who promoted the shopping spree, are are at best abberations and certainly not the norm.
Perceptions of IMAA (and AMA for that matter) based on RCU observations alone are wildly skewed from perceptions gleaned from having actually been to or participated in IMAA (and AMA) events. What you know about AMA having been to AMA events is vastly different from the 'knowledge' held by folks who have only read about so-called dirty politics in one District or about a dead political machine in another District. I bet by now you know very well that AMA is not all about politics and there are a great many things about AMA to commend it to potential members, DVD marketing fiascos notwithstanding.
I dunno why it is, but the 'norm' in online forums with respect to AMA and IMAA seems heavily slanted towards bashing. Pick a subject regarding IMAA, and find the salient threads.
What you'll find is that even if the thread originator meant to simply ask a question or offer a positive comment, the naysayers surface within at most two rounds of comments, and the thread gets hijacked into bashing whatever it was that the originator wanted to talk about.
This thread, for example.
Frank Ponteri posted a part of his District I news letter. The next six posts address Frank's news letter in one fashion or another. In the 8th post the thread is hijacked by someone who never has been an IMAA member but who puts in his two cents that the organization is dead and needs to be buried. In the 9th post another non-member chimes in with comments about the politics of . . . .
Oh. Sorry.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but _you_ wrote that 9th post based solely on what you had read prevously in this online forum, nothing more. Re-read your statement : in your own words, your "only experiance with IMAA is on RCU".
If the only thing you know about IMAA is what you read here in this online forum, heavily flavored with utterly baseless comments made by non-member hijackers, you really don't know very much at all about IMAA.
Now don't get your panties in a wad, that's not a personal attack; it's an observation of your own behavior here. You said you don't know anything about IMAA except what you read here, which I infer was largely a series of personal attacks against an IMAA officer for having dared try something new to convince former members to rejoin. Based on that 'knowledge', you opined that IMAA is a place where no one wants to hold office except to get expenses-paid boondoggle trips, and at this point in the thread you can't figure out any reason why you might want to investigate IMAA any further.
Have you been to an IMAA event ? That's a rhetorical question, by the way.
Have you seen photos of the IMAA Joe Nall event ? Just in case, I scanned the cover of High Flight's Fall issue. Any way you want to view it, that photo sure doesn't seem to depict an organization about to fold it's collective doors.
And, by the way . . . most of the IMAA events I've been to in the past twenty years have included a pretty fair selection of _aerobats_. Even have one of the things myself, except I only use it to break in engines destined for the twins. Cuban 8s do a pretty good job of scrubbing in a new engine, methinks.
Do IMAA 'cater' to the "aerobat-ists" ? Sure do. We fly 'em all the time. Do IMAA cater to "scale-ists"' ? No doubt in my mind. Have the ARFs made inroads ? Of course. Some of us think the advent of ARF-ing has resulted in a 'dumbing down' of building skills, but like everyone else we're entitled to have an opinion.
A couple of nuggets you may not have gleaned from all that 'information' floating around RCU about IMAA . . . .
Those of us who do build our own models aren't judges; we don't and wouldn't prevent someone from launching an ARF just because the model was built in Taiwan (or Singapore). No rule anywhere in IMAA contains the phrase 'builder of the model', and we really don't care who built the thing. It might be nice if we could have a peek inside to make sure the wings won't likely go to the prayer position when the mains break ground, but the only inspections these days are done by the modeler himself. Some of us would like to re-institute the safety inspections we threw out a couple years back, where a second pair of eyes checked the model over simply in the interest of _safety_, but that seems to be a bad word these days.
Funny thing about not having any judges in IMAA . . . . there aren't any contests. Nobody loses, nobody wins. All we do is FLY.
I'm guessing that's why you decided to take up this lunatic hobby in the first place, BTW.
If you need judges to tell you whether you're doing ok in the hobby, IMAC is for you. If you need to 'score better' than someone else down the flight line, IMAC really is for you.
IMAA members don't need no steenkin' judges to tell us whether we know how to fly the model, or to tell us how badly we mangled that last landing. We don't go looking for points when we drive 8 or 10 hours to get to a large meet. We don't take any trophies home either, unless there is a 'longest haul' or maybe a 'spectator's choice' award.
All we do is FLY. No score sheets, no style points, no static judging, none of that.
Even better ? Nobody cares if your sled is jammed with ARF aerobats and you think an 8 track is some new kinda SUV, and nobody cares if your sled DOESN'T have any aerobats, either. If all your models are built up and covered with seconite and have two wings and a full-castoring tail wheel, so what ?
All we do is FLY.
Kinda hard to make IMAA look like a useless organization when it has that sort of outlook on model airplanes.
Unless of course you're a naysayer, never been a member, and are bored with the concept of simply flying model airplanes for the sheer fun of flying model airplanes. Naysayers will always try to tear down something they don't understand, never tried, and can't figure out.
You can join the naysayers if you want, but I suggest that you will remain utterly misinformed if you allow your perceptions of IMAA (or any other organization, for that matter) to be those promoted by nitwits who have never been involved in the organization and who in fact have no earthly idea what the organization is really all about.
Think I'm all wet, here ?
Try this : FEMA. Conjure up your impression of that organization. Yeah, it's another Federal 'army', but g'head and conjure.
I betcha your personal knowledge of FEMA came from CNN and in all likelihood it arrived within the last month or so. Such 'knowlege' of FEMA is what most people have these days, anyway, and if you are like the vast majority of Americans who knew diddly about FEMA until it's sorely unqualified 'leader' did a public pratfall over Katrina, you dunno from FEMA except what CNN told you.
My knowledge of FEMA is probably considerably different from yours. I've driven past the hundreds of small mobile homes parked row after row, mile after mile, down at Ft. Gillem. That's FEMA's Southern District (or whatever they call it). They store disaster supplies there. I've watched those mobile homes trundle out the gate, and down to Warner Robbins, get loaded on more C5s than I knew the Air Force had. I've watched the mobile homes come back in the gate, sometimes in tatters.
The mobile homes, small ones to be sure, are emergency housing for folks displaced by disasters. I dunno where all those mobile homes have been , but I betcha some of 'em have more stickers on them than my old seabag, and that thing went around the planet more than a few times. I'm talking about the mobile homes FEMA had ready to go ten years ago. Lately I don't know so much; haven't been to Gillem in a while.
FEMA is a good organization, but it got dumbed down when Shrub and Co. invented DHS and all those other new acronyms, like TSA. FEMA is going to recover because we want FEMA to recover, and we need FEMA to recover. Like the blonde said, it's a good thing.
Was FEMA all wrong about Katrina ? No, but they were a little short on being right, too.
If you already know all about FEMA, then pick another organization where you learned everything you know about it from CNN, which is another way of saying you learned what you know from a third party indirectly. Then consider whether you know very much at all about that organization, in light of what most folks likely "know" about FEMA today.
Is AMA all wrong ? No, but we do seem to shoot ourselves in the collective foot now and then. We get over it and go flying.
Is IMAA all wrong ? No, but we do have a couple of things that need attention, and some of us are trying to work on that when we're not building models or trying to wreck 'em at the field.
I dunno if any of this is the answer you wanted, but it's the one I have.
Do yourself a favor and get a larger salt shaker next time you form an opinion based entirely on what you read here. If you want to find out whether I know what I'm talking about, you can visit my web site at home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber, or you can find out what I've been doing in AMA on the District V web site at http://www.amadistrict-v.org/
I don't hold an IMAA position because my 'political plate' is full enough trying to help the 34 AMA Chartered clubs in my territory in North Georgia. I hold that position because for twenty years AMA's District V was broken, and when the chance came to try to help get the District working again I volunteered.
If you want to know what IMAA is all about, don't take my word for it and certainly don't take the word of naysayers who have never been in the organization.
Go see what [link=http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/events/index.html]IMAA events [/link] are scheduled in your neck of the woods, and maybe spend a couple three hours snacking on so-so hot dogs and swilling down sodas, wandering around, and see for yourself what IMAA is really all about.
10-04-2005, 09:11 PM
#47
RE: IMAA Board Meeting
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Good move. Color is not CONTENT. You need content.
It's funny, wasn't there a move some time back to make the District Report pages in MA in Color? I could not beleive that they, straight-faced, tried to pull that. If I'm going to pay for more color pages, about the LAST thing I want to see is a bunch of cheesy snapshots of modellers shaking hands with an AVP at a funfly! You gotta be KIDDING!
Good move. Color is not CONTENT. You need content.
It's funny, wasn't there a move some time back to make the District Report pages in MA in Color? I could not beleive that they, straight-faced, tried to pull that. If I'm going to pay for more color pages, about the LAST thing I want to see is a bunch of cheesy snapshots of modellers shaking hands with an AVP at a funfly! You gotta be KIDDING!
Who are they? That item was strictly an item of the late Jim McNeil. It was never a push or pull from anyone else. OTOH some things never change. Just keep on ranting, ET, about things which you don't have a clue.
Every model airplane, of whatever discipline, is "special" to the person that is doing with that model whatever he wishes to do.
There are many Special Interest Groups (SIGs). Their special interest is special to those persons involved. Whether or not, they set the world on fire with it is their business. I fully support their interest and respect their right to promote that interest in whichever way they so decide.
As an overall group involved in whatever way one pleases with model aviation, any person belittling another's specific interest only demeans himself and belittles the sport. There are far too many problems that need correcting to grow our sport, hobby, recreation or whatever you wish to call it, than to belittle others and/or sub-groups as they try to better the situation even to correcting their own perceived errors.
10-04-2005, 09:48 PM
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Fred,
You're absolutley right about forming an opinion based on the views expressed on a forum. It works with equipment if you have a really good BS filter but when it comes to AMA the views are totally off from the norm so I suppose that applies to what I have learned about IMAA on here as well.
As for the ninth post, I don't think it was that out of line and I still think it's humorous.
I checked and there were two events in California last year that I almost went to, maybe I'll make them next year. I joined AMA so I could fly in pylon races IMAC and funflies. I always go to the San Fernando Valley Giant Scale Squadron funflies at my local field (non IMAA events) and they are some of the best events all year.
So I guess I am a prime candidate to join IMAA and $20 is no big deal but what do they really do for me? It seems that Joe Nall would take place wether the IMAA was around or not, same for those events near me. I already get enough magazines. So the bottom line is what do they do that is in my best interest?
I belong to a local club that lobbies the Park's Department to keep the field operating. I don't go to many meetings but I want to support them with my membership dollars because they are doing something that benefits me. So far I havn't seen evidence of that from the IMAA.
You're absolutley right about forming an opinion based on the views expressed on a forum. It works with equipment if you have a really good BS filter but when it comes to AMA the views are totally off from the norm so I suppose that applies to what I have learned about IMAA on here as well.
As for the ninth post, I don't think it was that out of line and I still think it's humorous.
I checked and there were two events in California last year that I almost went to, maybe I'll make them next year. I joined AMA so I could fly in pylon races IMAC and funflies. I always go to the San Fernando Valley Giant Scale Squadron funflies at my local field (non IMAA events) and they are some of the best events all year.
So I guess I am a prime candidate to join IMAA and $20 is no big deal but what do they really do for me? It seems that Joe Nall would take place wether the IMAA was around or not, same for those events near me. I already get enough magazines. So the bottom line is what do they do that is in my best interest?
I belong to a local club that lobbies the Park's Department to keep the field operating. I don't go to many meetings but I want to support them with my membership dollars because they are doing something that benefits me. So far I havn't seen evidence of that from the IMAA.
10-05-2005, 06:30 PM
#49
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
ORIGINAL: BasinBum
As for the ninth post, I don't think it was that out of line and I still think it's humorous.
As for the ninth post, I don't think it was that out of line and I still think it's humorous.
So I guess I am a prime candidate to join IMAA and $20 is no big deal but what do they really do for me? It seems that Joe Nall would take place wether the IMAA was around or not, same for those events near me. I already get enough magazines. So the bottom line is what do they do that is in my best interest?
I belong to a local club that lobbies the Park's Department to keep the field operating. I don't go to many meetings but I want to support them with my membership dollars because they are doing something that benefits me. So far I havn't seen evidence of that from the IMAA.
I belong to a local club that lobbies the Park's Department to keep the field operating. I don't go to many meetings but I want to support them with my membership dollars because they are doing something that benefits me. So far I havn't seen evidence of that from the IMAA.
They all do something to further model aviating in one form or another, and I like that.
I try to keep my NASA membership current, but I have no intention of ever competing in any of the NASA-sponsored contests.
I'd probably join QSAA if it didn't mean having to drive across the country to play in their once-a-year event.
I've been in AMA ever since I finished a twenty year stint way out on the Pacific Rim, and places even farther away.
I've been in IMAA since '88, when I found one of their events by accident and promptly decided that indeed Big Is Better.
Along the way I decided to spring for the LM sort of membership card in AMA and IMAA because I think both organizations do a lot of good.
Spending $1500 on an AMA LM is only fiscally wise if your eyes are good to go for another 30 years of flying - I'm pretty sure mine aren't, but ya never know. "Slick" Larsen flew until he was 92, and even now when he's stumping around with a cane he can _still_ build circles around me; I'll _never_ have 52 scale models sitting in the basement waiting to be flown.
I didn't spend that kind of money just to avoid having to renew every year, and I sure didn't spend it for the tax write-off of about $0.15 on the dollar.
I spent that money because I thought it could be used to do some good. It wasn't a hardship and I didn't have to scrape and scrounge, but it was $1850 spent on modeling in one year with nothing tangible to show for it but a couple of membershp cards that make club secretaries do a double take. Even had one guy tell me the card was bogus 'cuz he couldn't figure out when it expired. "When I die", I told him.
What is true in all this is that indeed an AMA member does not _need_ to join IMAA just to fly in 'big bird' events. These days no one 'needs' to join IMAA any more than they 'need' to join IMAC, because AMA sanctions events that cover both types of flying.
If I put it to you that folks are compelled to join IMAC because they like to compete, you'd probably understand and agree.
The switcheroo is that there are a great many of us who are compelled to fly giant model aircraft and we do NOT want to compete, and that fine point doesn't make a bit of sense to the folks who can't get enough competitive flying.
I didn't join AMA just to fly model airplanes, and I didn't join IMAA just to fly giant model airplanes. I can fly small model airplanes in lots of places, and I can fly giant model airplanes in lots of other places. If it all went in the proverbial handbasket, I could always kick the tenants off my land and re-plant Zoysia. I would have to get another mower, though.
I don't 'need' AMA and I don't 'need' IMAA, and if I resigned my AMA appointment I'd have a lot more building time (but I won't because helping area clubs and covering their events is it's own reward).
I choose to hold membership in both, not because of anything either can do for me, but because of what both organizations do for model aviation.
I 'spose it's a matter of perspective.
I can't tell you what IMAA does that would benefit you; all I can tell you is what IMAA does that benefits _me_.
Howzzat ?
10-05-2005, 08:23 PM
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RE: IMAA Board Meeting
Well Fred,
All your points are reasonable and well put. I suppose I could stand to join a few more associations to support model aviation but I think IMAA will have to stand in line behind IMAC, NPRA and one or two more local clubs.
All your points are reasonable and well put. I suppose I could stand to join a few more associations to support model aviation but I think IMAA will have to stand in line behind IMAC, NPRA and one or two more local clubs.