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**PLACE YOUR BETS**
10-02-2005, 11:53 AM
#26
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson
I think it is safe for me to do this as I do not expect him to win.
I think it is safe for me to do this as I do not expect him to win.
10-02-2005, 12:08 PM
#27
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
He has continuously intimated that he intends to use the EVP position to control the EC, by controlling the purse strings. He is totally deluded as to what the job entails, and totally unqualified,
[SNIP]
That's precisely the kind of person you DON'T want in power, yesno?
He has continuously intimated that he intends to use the EVP position to control the EC, by controlling the purse strings. He is totally deluded as to what the job entails, and totally unqualified,
[SNIP]
That's precisely the kind of person you DON'T want in power, yesno?
And yes, that is precisely the kind of person you DO NOT want in power because that sort of mentality doesn't know what the job entails and would do nothing but screw up the works by violating all manner of IRS rules and accounting principles.
The EVP position needs to be filled by a QUALIFIED CPA, not someone who has to phone home to get advice on financial strategies.
I nominated Horace last time around, as did others. My motive was to insure that he had ample opportunity to fall flat on his face, which he did summarily. I most certainly did NOT vote for him.
Horace has a track record if anyone would care to follow up on it, of being obstinate and counterproductive in EC meetings when he held an EC seat, and if nothing else did in fact hold an EC seat and RESIGNED THAT SEAT.
Is that the sort of person we want doing AMA's financial accounting ? I think not.
Having said all that, Horace has done a great deal to promote model aviation over the decades, has spent a considerable sum of his own money in so doing, and for that at least he most certainly deserves the credit due. While Horace is indeed one of us, I for one don't think he's qualified for the position of EVP by any stretch of the imagination.
Just because someone is a model airplane fanatic like most of us does not qualify that person to hold high AMA office. If you don't believe me, consider the Jim McNeill era and vote accordingly.
I will, just as soon as the ballot shows up.
10-02-2005, 12:18 PM
#28
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
Yes, and yes, on both posts.
There is a place in the world for small dictatorships. Horrace is not a democratic leader type, he is a dictator type. It won't work with 180,000 constituents. If he REALLY wants to do the most good for the hobby, let him do this one thing:
Start ANOTHER field in texas. He has the one field already. From what I have heard, it's a benevolent dictatorship. Benevolent, as long as you don't get on Horrace's bad side. Hey, it's his field, deal with it. But the field exists, and guys can fly there. Score one for Horrace.
So...since you will never get elected to a national position (you are three and oh now, heading for four), why not focus on stuff where you CAN do immediate good?
Do something simple and attainable. Start another field in your county.
There is a place in the world for small dictatorships. Horrace is not a democratic leader type, he is a dictator type. It won't work with 180,000 constituents. If he REALLY wants to do the most good for the hobby, let him do this one thing:
Start ANOTHER field in texas. He has the one field already. From what I have heard, it's a benevolent dictatorship. Benevolent, as long as you don't get on Horrace's bad side. Hey, it's his field, deal with it. But the field exists, and guys can fly there. Score one for Horrace.
So...since you will never get elected to a national position (you are three and oh now, heading for four), why not focus on stuff where you CAN do immediate good?
Do something simple and attainable. Start another field in your county.
10-02-2005, 02:53 PM
#29
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
I feel better having read this thread, I've always been conflicted about my feelings for Horace. On the one hand I know he has done a lot of good for the hobby, served our country and is an intelligent personable guy yet, he can be a real horses ass at times and is really fun to pick on. You guys have shown me that it is important to acknowledge the two Horaces that we know and it is OK to admire the one while deriding the other.
Maybe if Horace learns to recognize his strengths and weakness he will be better off (as we all could learn to do).
Maybe if Horace learns to recognize his strengths and weakness he will be better off (as we all could learn to do).
10-04-2005, 10:30 AM
#33
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
You know guys, if you will remember in a thread awhile back I tried to encourage Horrace to moderate the way he puts things. I believe, for the most part (and I present this for discussion), that his motivation is in the right place. And, although I get irritated with the way things are stated sometimes Horrace has many good ideas. That being said, AMA is such a bureaucracy anymore that one man will never have the unilateral power to totally screw things up.
So, this leads me to my main point. We all pretty much agree that the status quo stinks and if we re-elect Brown that's exactly what we are going to get...more of the same. What do we have? The status quo on one hand and a wild-card. Put aside your personal opinions and be objective and think about what I am saying for a minute.
I am not convinced either way, although, I really like the idea of shaking things up FWIW.
So, this leads me to my main point. We all pretty much agree that the status quo stinks and if we re-elect Brown that's exactly what we are going to get...more of the same. What do we have? The status quo on one hand and a wild-card. Put aside your personal opinions and be objective and think about what I am saying for a minute.
I am not convinced either way, although, I really like the idea of shaking things up FWIW.
10-04-2005, 11:59 AM
#34
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
So, who's Doug Holland????? What are his beefs? What religion is he? Whats his personality like? Is he a nutcase? How is he going to change the world of model aviation? Is he going to just keep a chair warm on the EC and shake hands and kiss babies at funflys?
We can't bash him like Horrace because we KNOW Hossfly.
We can't bash him like Horrace because we KNOW Hossfly.
10-04-2005, 12:48 PM
#35
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
That is one thing I admire about Horrace. He is willing to come on here and put his ideas on the table in front of all of us, and he has proven over and over that he is able to take lots and lots of critisism, and still maintain some focus on what he wants to achieve. I have argued points with him on a few occasions.
I will vote for Horrace because at least I know he is accessible to argue with if I don't agree with what he is doing. I know very little about Doug Holland aside from what he has wrote in MA. Horrace has a big mouth, and is good about letting us know what he is thinking, and what he is up to, which in this case, I like.
I know neither candidate personally, and as I have said before, I find Horrace a little overbearing, but at least Horrace is man enough to put his ideas out on the table for all of us to judge and criticize.
Its the ones like Doug Holland, that don't let you know much about what they are thinking, or how they stand on different issues that make me nervous.
Doug Holland may be a very nice guy, and Horrace may be an *****, but I am NOT voting on who I think would make the best flying buddy. I am voting for who I think will be best suited to get some things changed for the better within the AMA.
Dave Brown himself has wrote that if you are not happy with the direction the AMA is going, then with your vote you have the chance to change its direction. So my vote will reflect a need for change by me casting my vote for the Horrace Cain(The most controversial man on RCU)
I will vote for Horrace because at least I know he is accessible to argue with if I don't agree with what he is doing. I know very little about Doug Holland aside from what he has wrote in MA. Horrace has a big mouth, and is good about letting us know what he is thinking, and what he is up to, which in this case, I like.
I know neither candidate personally, and as I have said before, I find Horrace a little overbearing, but at least Horrace is man enough to put his ideas out on the table for all of us to judge and criticize.
Its the ones like Doug Holland, that don't let you know much about what they are thinking, or how they stand on different issues that make me nervous.
Doug Holland may be a very nice guy, and Horrace may be an *****, but I am NOT voting on who I think would make the best flying buddy. I am voting for who I think will be best suited to get some things changed for the better within the AMA.
Dave Brown himself has wrote that if you are not happy with the direction the AMA is going, then with your vote you have the chance to change its direction. So my vote will reflect a need for change by me casting my vote for the Horrace Cain(The most controversial man on RCU)
10-04-2005, 01:00 PM
#36
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: scottrc
So, who's Doug Holland????? What are his beefs? What religion is he? Whats his personality like? Is he a nutcase? How is he going to change the world of model aviation? Is he going to just keep a chair warm on the EC and shake hands and kiss babies at funflys?
We can't bash him like Horrace because we KNOW Hossfly.
So, who's Doug Holland????? What are his beefs? What religion is he? Whats his personality like? Is he a nutcase? How is he going to change the world of model aviation? Is he going to just keep a chair warm on the EC and shake hands and kiss babies at funflys?
We can't bash him like Horrace because we KNOW Hossfly.
Personality? Hmm. He is a financial wizard. A CPA. He tends to listen. I have observed him when he has been at the AMA Convention. He and several VP’s have been known to sit around a table. Doug listens a lot. The others talk a lot. Funny thing though… when Doug Holland talks, everyone else listens. Southern gentleman would seem to be a fair description of his personality. You should hear all the stuff he has to say about Horrace… there ain’t any, even when prodded. You have to find someone else to discuss Horrace with.
How is he going to change model aviation? Perhaps a review of his record as evidenced in the EC Minutes is in order? There is quite a bit of info in those Minutes. He arranged a low interest loan to tie together several loans (some 3 mil or so) the AMA had outstanding, thereby saving untold amounts of interest. He was responsible for the effort to recruit and hire Don Koranda.
Doug's been known to kiss a baby or two at an event. He has not been known to make an issue of it. The words “I†and “me†are difficult to pry out of him. Words like “weâ€, “us†and “our†tend to flow more easily.
It is hard to bash Doug Holland, when he stands on his documented record and not on meaningless rhetoric.
10-04-2005, 01:01 PM
#37
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
I also want to add, that I am totally amazed by my poll results so far. I actually thought Horrace would score very low in this RCU poll due to the fact that he has probally ticked off just about everyone here on RCU at one time or another. I thought Horrace would score much better percentages in the National Election then he would here on RCU since he nor Doug are probally that well known to members who do not pay much attention to what goes on within AMA. Horrace has his name listed first on the ballot, and I bet he will get the majority of votes from those who know nothing about either candidate. With probally less than 20% of the membership who will actually vote, I am now thinking it might just be possible for Horrace to pull an upset here, and win this thing. Moderators will be swamped shutting down angry threads if this happens.
10-04-2005, 01:30 PM
#38
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
Anyone else still waiting for an explaination of this post by Horrace?
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_24...Cstaff/tm.htm#
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_24...Cstaff/tm.htm#
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
No argument, Mr. Ben, while comparing the oranges however Model Aviation (MA) is a lemon among the real oranges. Why is MA needed as a competitor withinin the commercial model media? Since you take a number of those modeling media publications, while reading the other United States based magazines do you find any that now gives any credence to those activities, such as the NATs, organized and provided by the AMA?
The media ignores the AMA simply due to the AMA's production of a commercial magazine format competing for those advertising $$ at a much reduced rate than can be afforded by those real commercial magazines that must profit to stay in business. This is especially true where MA has a force of conscripted clientele.
Therefore the question is not really the cost or the content of MA, but the inherent damage done to the overall sport/hobby/recreation by the forced entry of a market competitor that has a considerable advantage and will not compete on equal terms, but use their advantages against those that were at one times supporters of the same goals as MA is SUPPOSED to be.
That existing system includes voting out those that go along with the apparent majority sitting around the *square* table. That frame work also includes getting all the support one can muster for one's idea/s on what needs to be done, plus obtaining ideas from others about what they see that may well be needed. IMO, the next available EC object definitely needing a voter's extended vacation is the current AMA Executive Vice President.
I have been obtaining a significant amount of information concerning my estimate of some $80,000.oo just expended by the MA Staff without any record of permission. I will not post this info. here until sometime after the New Year.
Along with that, I hear that the newly hired Executive Director may well not change much more than just adding another top pay position at AMA. Again the existing system definitely needs some changes be it AMA and/or MA.
ORIGINAL: Ben Lanterman
//SNIP//
Jim, I should confess up front that I had an article on this years Joe Nall Flyin published in the magazine and am supposed to have one on the Scale Masters. So I am surely biased. No doubt.
But today while going to the doctor I took this month's MA and carefully looked through it. I thought it was packed with information that covered all aspects of the hobby and in addition I could see what was going on in all of the districts - depending on how good of a job the VPs are reporting. There was a construction article, review, articles on electrics, scale, indoor stuff, etc. I personally like that. I take a half dozen other RC specific magazines and 2 or 3 that are more general.
MA gives as much good reading and photography (especially when I do the article) as anything else (well there are a lot of good photos in the other mags also).
//SNIP//
Jim, I should confess up front that I had an article on this years Joe Nall Flyin published in the magazine and am supposed to have one on the Scale Masters. So I am surely biased. No doubt.
But today while going to the doctor I took this month's MA and carefully looked through it. I thought it was packed with information that covered all aspects of the hobby and in addition I could see what was going on in all of the districts - depending on how good of a job the VPs are reporting. There was a construction article, review, articles on electrics, scale, indoor stuff, etc. I personally like that. I take a half dozen other RC specific magazines and 2 or 3 that are more general.
MA gives as much good reading and photography (especially when I do the article) as anything else (well there are a lot of good photos in the other mags also).
The media ignores the AMA simply due to the AMA's production of a commercial magazine format competing for those advertising $$ at a much reduced rate than can be afforded by those real commercial magazines that must profit to stay in business. This is especially true where MA has a force of conscripted clientele.
Therefore the question is not really the cost or the content of MA, but the inherent damage done to the overall sport/hobby/recreation by the forced entry of a market competitor that has a considerable advantage and will not compete on equal terms, but use their advantages against those that were at one times supporters of the same goals as MA is SUPPOSED to be.
//SNIP//
I think that the whole discussion is a matter of who is and who wants to call the shots - the magazine is just something to crab about as a lever on the way to determining who is top dawg.
I would have a lot more respect (I honestly think I would like all the the guys involved in all of the discussions, they fly models after all) concerning the guys in the discussions if, perhaps, even though they don't agree with anything or each other, they would work within the framework of the existing system to make the magazine better.
Ben
I think that the whole discussion is a matter of who is and who wants to call the shots - the magazine is just something to crab about as a lever on the way to determining who is top dawg.
I would have a lot more respect (I honestly think I would like all the the guys involved in all of the discussions, they fly models after all) concerning the guys in the discussions if, perhaps, even though they don't agree with anything or each other, they would work within the framework of the existing system to make the magazine better.
Ben
I have been obtaining a significant amount of information concerning my estimate of some $80,000.oo just expended by the MA Staff without any record of permission. I will not post this info. here until sometime after the New Year.
Along with that, I hear that the newly hired Executive Director may well not change much more than just adding another top pay position at AMA. Again the existing system definitely needs some changes be it AMA and/or MA.
10-04-2005, 01:49 PM
#39
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
I think MA has turned over a new leaf, and have really made leaps and bounds in improving the magazine, and making it more appealing to readers. Those responsible for that change deserve alot of credit. I have absolutely no gripe about MA Magazine anymore whatsoever, and I must say that I now enjoy it very much! If the rest of AMA could make such a huge improvement like MA Mag did, then I would have no gripe with any of it. The Mag recognized that it indeed needed changing, and they changed it! The other side of AMA is not going to be so quick to find that they have a problem I fear. I think it is going to take someone in there to shake things up a bit or wake some people up a bit!
10-04-2005, 01:53 PM
#40
Banned
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: J_R
Anyone else still waiting for an explaination of this post by Horrace?
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_24...Cstaff/tm.htm#
Anyone else still waiting for an explaination of this post by Horrace?
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_24...Cstaff/tm.htm#
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
No argument, Mr. Ben, while comparing the oranges however Model Aviation (MA) is a lemon among the real oranges. Why is MA needed as a competitor withinin the commercial model media? Since you take a number of those modeling media publications, while reading the other United States based magazines do you find any that now gives any credence to those activities, such as the NATs, organized and provided by the AMA?
The media ignores the AMA simply due to the AMA's production of a commercial magazine format competing for those advertising $$ at a much reduced rate than can be afforded by those real commercial magazines that must profit to stay in business. This is especially true where MA has a force of conscripted clientele.
Therefore the question is not really the cost or the content of MA, but the inherent damage done to the overall sport/hobby/recreation by the forced entry of a market competitor that has a considerable advantage and will not compete on equal terms, but use their advantages against those that were at one times supporters of the same goals as MA is SUPPOSED to be.
That existing system includes voting out those that go along with the apparent majority sitting around the *square* table. That frame work also includes getting all the support one can muster for one's idea/s on what needs to be done, plus obtaining ideas from others about what they see that may well be needed. IMO, the next available EC object definitely needing a voter's extended vacation is the current AMA Executive Vice President.
I have been obtaining a significant amount of information concerning my estimate of some $80,000.oo just expended by the MA Staff without any record of permission. I will not post this info. here until sometime after the New Year.
Along with that, I hear that the newly hired Executive Director may well not change much more than just adding another top pay position at AMA. Again the existing system definitely needs some changes be it AMA and/or MA.
ORIGINAL: Ben Lanterman
//SNIP//
Jim, I should confess up front that I had an article on this years Joe Nall Flyin published in the magazine and am supposed to have one on the Scale Masters. So I am surely biased. No doubt.
But today while going to the doctor I took this month's MA and carefully looked through it. I thought it was packed with information that covered all aspects of the hobby and in addition I could see what was going on in all of the districts - depending on how good of a job the VPs are reporting. There was a construction article, review, articles on electrics, scale, indoor stuff, etc. I personally like that. I take a half dozen other RC specific magazines and 2 or 3 that are more general.
MA gives as much good reading and photography (especially when I do the article) as anything else (well there are a lot of good photos in the other mags also).
//SNIP//
Jim, I should confess up front that I had an article on this years Joe Nall Flyin published in the magazine and am supposed to have one on the Scale Masters. So I am surely biased. No doubt.
But today while going to the doctor I took this month's MA and carefully looked through it. I thought it was packed with information that covered all aspects of the hobby and in addition I could see what was going on in all of the districts - depending on how good of a job the VPs are reporting. There was a construction article, review, articles on electrics, scale, indoor stuff, etc. I personally like that. I take a half dozen other RC specific magazines and 2 or 3 that are more general.
MA gives as much good reading and photography (especially when I do the article) as anything else (well there are a lot of good photos in the other mags also).
The media ignores the AMA simply due to the AMA's production of a commercial magazine format competing for those advertising $$ at a much reduced rate than can be afforded by those real commercial magazines that must profit to stay in business. This is especially true where MA has a force of conscripted clientele.
Therefore the question is not really the cost or the content of MA, but the inherent damage done to the overall sport/hobby/recreation by the forced entry of a market competitor that has a considerable advantage and will not compete on equal terms, but use their advantages against those that were at one times supporters of the same goals as MA is SUPPOSED to be.
//SNIP//
I think that the whole discussion is a matter of who is and who wants to call the shots - the magazine is just something to crab about as a lever on the way to determining who is top dawg.
I would have a lot more respect (I honestly think I would like all the the guys involved in all of the discussions, they fly models after all) concerning the guys in the discussions if, perhaps, even though they don't agree with anything or each other, they would work within the framework of the existing system to make the magazine better.
Ben
I think that the whole discussion is a matter of who is and who wants to call the shots - the magazine is just something to crab about as a lever on the way to determining who is top dawg.
I would have a lot more respect (I honestly think I would like all the the guys involved in all of the discussions, they fly models after all) concerning the guys in the discussions if, perhaps, even though they don't agree with anything or each other, they would work within the framework of the existing system to make the magazine better.
Ben
I have been obtaining a significant amount of information concerning my estimate of some $80,000.oo just expended by the MA Staff without any record of permission. I will not post this info. here until sometime after the New Year.
Along with that, I hear that the newly hired Executive Director may well not change much more than just adding another top pay position at AMA. Again the existing system definitely needs some changes be it AMA and/or MA.
To me, it's just another wacked out he said she said e-gument, revolving around mistruths and conjecture about MA and all this other stuff, and he has no idea of what he is talking about. And the old "who needs MA" thing has been going on SINCE THE SEVENTIES. Enough already.
He went after this cat Ben Lanterman based upon some crazy suppositions and such, the guy never did ANYTHING to Horrace, and yet got dragged through the mud. For what? Contributing articles to MA?
Just another stupid argument about nothing.
What's to explain? Forget it. You can make up a whole huge list of these arguments HC has been involved in, you won't get him to admit he was in the wrong, what's the good of it all?
10-04-2005, 01:54 PM
#41
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: ckangaroo70
I also want to add, that I am totally amazed by my poll results so far. I actually thought Horrace would score very low in this RCU poll due to the fact that he has probally ticked off just about everyone here on RCU at one time or another. I thought Horrace would score much better percentages in the National Election then he would here on RCU since he nor Doug are probally that well known to members who do not pay much attention to what goes on within AMA. Horrace has his name listed first on the ballot, and I bet he will get the majority of votes from those who know nothing about either candidate. With probally less than 20% of the membership who will actually vote, I am now thinking it might just be possible for Horrace to pull an upset here, and win this thing. Moderators will be swamped shutting down angry threads if this happens.
I also want to add, that I am totally amazed by my poll results so far. I actually thought Horrace would score very low in this RCU poll due to the fact that he has probally ticked off just about everyone here on RCU at one time or another. I thought Horrace would score much better percentages in the National Election then he would here on RCU since he nor Doug are probally that well known to members who do not pay much attention to what goes on within AMA. Horrace has his name listed first on the ballot, and I bet he will get the majority of votes from those who know nothing about either candidate. With probally less than 20% of the membership who will actually vote, I am now thinking it might just be possible for Horrace to pull an upset here, and win this thing. Moderators will be swamped shutting down angry threads if this happens.
Bet your entire fortune AGAINST whoever appears to be winning on the internet poll.
10-04-2005, 02:10 PM
#42
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: AGR413
You know guys, if you will remember in a thread awhile back I tried to encourage Horrace to moderate the way he puts things. I believe, for the most part (and I present this for discussion), that his motivation is in the right place. And, although I get irritated with the way things are stated sometimes Horrace has many good ideas. That being said, AMA is such a bureaucracy anymore that one man will never have the unilateral power to totally screw things up.
So, this leads me to my main point. We all pretty much agree that the status quo stinks and if we re-elect Brown that's exactly what we are going to get...more of the same. What do we have? The status quo on one hand and a wild-card. Put aside your personal opinions and be objective and think about what I am saying for a minute.
I am not convinced either way, although, I really like the idea of shaking things up FWIW.
You know guys, if you will remember in a thread awhile back I tried to encourage Horrace to moderate the way he puts things. I believe, for the most part (and I present this for discussion), that his motivation is in the right place. And, although I get irritated with the way things are stated sometimes Horrace has many good ideas. That being said, AMA is such a bureaucracy anymore that one man will never have the unilateral power to totally screw things up.
So, this leads me to my main point. We all pretty much agree that the status quo stinks and if we re-elect Brown that's exactly what we are going to get...more of the same. What do we have? The status quo on one hand and a wild-card. Put aside your personal opinions and be objective and think about what I am saying for a minute.
I am not convinced either way, although, I really like the idea of shaking things up FWIW.
I think AMA is doing very well.
I don't beleive AMA is a bloated buraucracy.
I don't belive Horrace's motivation is in the right place. I think what he REALLY wants is power and revenge...not to help out the overall cause of model aviation.
I also think very strongly that one person COULD screw things up for us all. With the FAA or Homeland Security or any number of other agencies that could throw us for a loop in a heartbeat. They did, just a few months ago, if you followed all the info on the canecelled jet rallies and such.
All it might take is ONE undiplomatic person to upset the whole ball game.
We need DIPLOMATS. Not DICTATORS.
10-04-2005, 02:10 PM
#43
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ET
My earlier guesses were that Hoss would get beat pretty good, and thats all they are is guesses. He may still very well get beat bad, because it takes more than 100 people in a poll to really know how 150,000 potential voters will vote even if less than 20% actually vote. What suprised me was how well he is doing here on RCU. I really looked for him to get clobbered in a RCU poll, and that is not the case here. The poll here reflects a very good Horrace, excuse me, I mean Horse race!
My earlier guesses were that Hoss would get beat pretty good, and thats all they are is guesses. He may still very well get beat bad, because it takes more than 100 people in a poll to really know how 150,000 potential voters will vote even if less than 20% actually vote. What suprised me was how well he is doing here on RCU. I really looked for him to get clobbered in a RCU poll, and that is not the case here. The poll here reflects a very good Horrace, excuse me, I mean Horse race!
10-04-2005, 02:22 PM
#44
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: AGR413
You know guys, if you will remember in a thread awhile back I tried to encourage Horrace to moderate the way he puts things. I believe, for the most part (and I present this for discussion), that his motivation is in the right place. And, although I get irritated with the way things are stated sometimes Horrace has many good ideas. That being said, AMA is such a bureaucracy anymore that one man will never have the unilateral power to totally screw things up.
So, this leads me to my main point. We all pretty much agree that the status quo stinks and if we re-elect Brown that's exactly what we are going to get...more of the same. What do we have? The status quo on one hand and a wild-card. Put aside your personal opinions and be objective and think about what I am saying for a minute.
I am not convinced either way, although, I really like the idea of shaking things up FWIW.
You know guys, if you will remember in a thread awhile back I tried to encourage Horrace to moderate the way he puts things. I believe, for the most part (and I present this for discussion), that his motivation is in the right place. And, although I get irritated with the way things are stated sometimes Horrace has many good ideas. That being said, AMA is such a bureaucracy anymore that one man will never have the unilateral power to totally screw things up.
So, this leads me to my main point. We all pretty much agree that the status quo stinks and if we re-elect Brown that's exactly what we are going to get...more of the same. What do we have? The status quo on one hand and a wild-card. Put aside your personal opinions and be objective and think about what I am saying for a minute.
I am not convinced either way, although, I really like the idea of shaking things up FWIW.
10-04-2005, 03:38 PM
#45
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
Kangaroo,
You missed the point of JR's post, it's not about the quality of MA or even Horaces' possibly valid point about low cost advertising being the reason you don't see mention of anything AMA in any other nagazine.
Horaces' paragraph, "I have been obtaining a significant amount of information concerning my estimate of some $80,000.oo just expended by the MA Staff without any record of permission. I will not post this info. here until sometime after the New Year." Is pretty much accusing Doug Holland of something and then appearently he has never backed up this statement and it's already October.
Is that the type of person who should hold a high office in the AMA. Will he have to call a lawyer friend of his to figure out if he is slandering someone and opening AMA up for a lawsuit?
Thankfully I agree with ET about the validity of Internet polls, don't think for a minute that the few who participate here have are representative of the general membership.
You missed the point of JR's post, it's not about the quality of MA or even Horaces' possibly valid point about low cost advertising being the reason you don't see mention of anything AMA in any other nagazine.
Horaces' paragraph, "I have been obtaining a significant amount of information concerning my estimate of some $80,000.oo just expended by the MA Staff without any record of permission. I will not post this info. here until sometime after the New Year." Is pretty much accusing Doug Holland of something and then appearently he has never backed up this statement and it's already October.
Is that the type of person who should hold a high office in the AMA. Will he have to call a lawyer friend of his to figure out if he is slandering someone and opening AMA up for a lawsuit?
Thankfully I agree with ET about the validity of Internet polls, don't think for a minute that the few who participate here have are representative of the general membership.
10-04-2005, 05:07 PM
#46
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: BasinBum
Kangaroo,
You missed the point of JR's post, it's not about the quality of MA or even Horaces' possibly valid point about low cost advertising being the reason you don't see mention of anything AMA in any other nagazine.
Horaces' paragraph, "I have been obtaining a significant amount of information concerning my estimate of some $80,000.oo just expended by the MA Staff without any record of permission. I will not post this info. here until sometime after the New Year." Is pretty much accusing Doug Holland of something and then appearently he has never backed up this statement and it's already October.
Is that the type of person who should hold a high office in the AMA. Will he have to call a lawyer friend of his to figure out if he is slandering someone and opening AMA up for a lawsuit?
Thankfully I agree with ET about the validity of Internet polls, don't think for a minute that the few who participate here have are representative of the general membership.
Kangaroo,
You missed the point of JR's post, it's not about the quality of MA or even Horaces' possibly valid point about low cost advertising being the reason you don't see mention of anything AMA in any other nagazine.
Horaces' paragraph, "I have been obtaining a significant amount of information concerning my estimate of some $80,000.oo just expended by the MA Staff without any record of permission. I will not post this info. here until sometime after the New Year." Is pretty much accusing Doug Holland of something and then appearently he has never backed up this statement and it's already October.
Is that the type of person who should hold a high office in the AMA. Will he have to call a lawyer friend of his to figure out if he is slandering someone and opening AMA up for a lawsuit?
Thankfully I agree with ET about the validity of Internet polls, don't think for a minute that the few who participate here have are representative of the general membership.
10-04-2005, 05:16 PM
#47
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
This newley posted topic is all the more reason why AMA needs to restructure. AMA uses insurance as leverage for people to join, when it should be finding other ways to promote itself to potential Members. You should WANT to be part of the AMA to help support what it stands for, and not feel like you must join because you might get hurt someday. The Insurance should just be one of the many benefits of belonging to AMA, and not the sole reason!
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_34...tm.htm#3422133
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_34...tm.htm#3422133
10-04-2005, 05:26 PM
#48
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: BasinBum
Thankfully I agree with ET about the validity of Internet polls, don't think for a minute that the few who participate here have are representative of the general membership.
Thankfully I agree with ET about the validity of Internet polls, don't think for a minute that the few who participate here have are representative of the general membership.
10-04-2005, 05:43 PM
#49
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: AGR413
I am not convinced either way, although, I really like the idea of shaking things up FWIW.
I am not convinced either way, although, I really like the idea of shaking things up FWIW.
Bureaucratic nonsense went out the door down here right along with the McNeill era.
MUCH better District these days.
10-04-2005, 05:55 PM
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: ckangaroo70
Its the ones like Doug Holland, that don't let you know much about what they are thinking, or how they stand on different issues that make me nervous.
Doug Holland may be a very nice guy, and Horrace may be an *****, but I am NOT voting on who I think would make the best flying buddy. I am voting for who I think will be best suited to get some things changed for the better within the AMA.
Dave Brown himself has wrote that if you are not happy with the direction the AMA is going, then with your vote you have the chance to change its direction. So my vote will reflect a need for change by me casting my vote for the Horrace Cain(The most controversial man on RCU)
Its the ones like Doug Holland, that don't let you know much about what they are thinking, or how they stand on different issues that make me nervous.
Doug Holland may be a very nice guy, and Horrace may be an *****, but I am NOT voting on who I think would make the best flying buddy. I am voting for who I think will be best suited to get some things changed for the better within the AMA.
Dave Brown himself has wrote that if you are not happy with the direction the AMA is going, then with your vote you have the chance to change its direction. So my vote will reflect a need for change by me casting my vote for the Horrace Cain(The most controversial man on RCU)
Doug Holland own his own CPA/consulting firm, has been a CPA longer than most folks have been playing with toy airplanes, and holds an elected position within AMA which should only be held by a CPA.
Doug Holland is not tasked with taking position on issues, Doug Holland is tasked with keeping AMA's money accounted for and with attending to AMA fiscal matters as directed by the Executive Council.
Doug Holland can legally attest to AMA's financial picture and doesn't need outside help to straighten things out. That of course is because nothing needs straightening, AMA's finances are in _qualified_ hands.
Horrace cannot. Worse, if IRS wanted to ask some pointy financial questions regarding AMA's financial activities, Horrace would have to bring in an outside CPA, and would not have the ability to determine whether the outsider got it right - he's stated over and over that he will call on others if and when the occaision arises.
If you want, you can make your voting decision on a single point : Holland is a CPA, Horrace is not. Which one do you want to be in charging of insuring the accounting function of AMA is properly run ?