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**PLACE YOUR BETS**
10-05-2005, 08:00 PM
#76
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: ckangaroo70
For awhile I thought maybe you might be worried a bit
, but I am glad to see that you have finally came over to our side[8D], and not letting the potential election win by Horrace bother you.
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Not that I am worried about Horrace getting elected. But since we are talking...
Not that I am worried about Horrace getting elected. But since we are talking...
, but I am glad to see that you have finally came over to our side[8D], and not letting the potential election win by Horrace bother you.2003 Election Results
Executive Vice President
Doug Holland 12,585
Doug Barry 3,689
Horrace Cain 3,155
Keep in mind that Doug Barry, in his campaign statement, said that he only wanted the job after Holland retires.
10-05-2005, 08:16 PM
#77
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RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
Hi JR-
That's the way I read it, and I'm glad you posted that explanation. There is a difference between 'monitor and report' and the day-today bill-paying and accounting (though you wouldn't know that from reading Holland's campaign statement). I'd like to see somebody translating the de rigueur form and language of CPAs/auditors (which seem as sensible as borderline Swahili to me, though I have handled budgets and reporting of project accounts with funding comparable to AMA's) to plain English for our benefit, and I suspect for the benefit of the other 13 EC members. The one time I recall contacting Holland for information, his reply began "I can see you are are not an accountant..." Well, Duh! that's a fact, but he can shoot that out at random to every inquiry and be right about 98% of the time.
Such information as budgets for the coming year and longer term have never been reported on by Holland in my recollection. IOW, we can never know how our $ is to be spent until long after it is gone. If for no other reason, I favor Horrace because he isn't the sort to keep such things confined to the inner sanctum and away from the hoi polloi AMA members. There is another reason though, and that is the key point made in your post. We don't need a CPA to monitor and report, which to be effective means translate the accountantese for the rest of us. In fact having a CPA attempt to do that has been amply demonstrated as counterproductive.
Abel
ORIGINAL: J_R
<snip>
The following is from the AMA bylaws. Article X, Section 4.
*****
"The Executive Vice President shall be the Chief Financial Officer of the AMA, shall monitor the financial and corporate affairs of the AMA, make an annual report to the membership regarding the financial affairs of the AMA; and shall make periodic reports, not less than quarterly, to the Executive Council regarding financial matters of the AMA, and shall assume the duties of the President in the event of a vacancy as described in Section 2. until such vacancy is filled."
*****
Jon, that's it. The EVP shall look and he shall make reports, but nothing is said about touching the funds... nothing. "The management of the affairs of the AMA shall be vested in a governing body, to be known as the Executive Council." The EC holds the purse strings, unless they relinquish some of them or all of them to others.
<snip>
The following is from the AMA bylaws. Article X, Section 4.
*****
"The Executive Vice President shall be the Chief Financial Officer of the AMA, shall monitor the financial and corporate affairs of the AMA, make an annual report to the membership regarding the financial affairs of the AMA; and shall make periodic reports, not less than quarterly, to the Executive Council regarding financial matters of the AMA, and shall assume the duties of the President in the event of a vacancy as described in Section 2. until such vacancy is filled."
*****
Jon, that's it. The EVP shall look and he shall make reports, but nothing is said about touching the funds... nothing. "The management of the affairs of the AMA shall be vested in a governing body, to be known as the Executive Council." The EC holds the purse strings, unless they relinquish some of them or all of them to others.
That's the way I read it, and I'm glad you posted that explanation. There is a difference between 'monitor and report' and the day-today bill-paying and accounting (though you wouldn't know that from reading Holland's campaign statement). I'd like to see somebody translating the de rigueur form and language of CPAs/auditors (which seem as sensible as borderline Swahili to me, though I have handled budgets and reporting of project accounts with funding comparable to AMA's) to plain English for our benefit, and I suspect for the benefit of the other 13 EC members. The one time I recall contacting Holland for information, his reply began "I can see you are are not an accountant..." Well, Duh! that's a fact, but he can shoot that out at random to every inquiry and be right about 98% of the time.
Such information as budgets for the coming year and longer term have never been reported on by Holland in my recollection. IOW, we can never know how our $ is to be spent until long after it is gone. If for no other reason, I favor Horrace because he isn't the sort to keep such things confined to the inner sanctum and away from the hoi polloi AMA members. There is another reason though, and that is the key point made in your post. We don't need a CPA to monitor and report, which to be effective means translate the accountantese for the rest of us. In fact having a CPA attempt to do that has been amply demonstrated as counterproductive.
Abel
It may be that you are making assumptions not based on fact... or you could be right. The last time Horrace was on the EC, the nominating committee voted to leave him off the ballot when he was up for re-election. He used his MA column to run a sucessful write-in campaign. That type of use of the columns had never been forseen. EC motions were put in place to control the content of columns, after Horrace quit in the middle of his term, giving guidelines to the Officers.
Let me make clear that the EC has, in fact, chosen to bestow on Doug Holland substantial control of purse strings by motions in the EC. He has controlled the flow of many millions of dollars in AMA cash and assets. It is such control that will not come automatically to anyone holding the EVP office. It is entirely possible that the EC could do it as a whole, or that they might be inclined to hire someone, or someones, with the expertise, thereby raising expenses.
As far as reporting on the line item budget, the members of the EC have discussed it in previous years and there seems to be no desire to have it placed in a public forum. As a matter of fact, I have never found any support for publishing it (have not talked to every member about it). As I understand, Doug Holland has had no more or less say in that decision than anyone else, and I did not ask him about it, so I can not report his position. Keep in mind that the content of Officer columns is controlled by the EC motion posted here previously. On the other hand, should you stop by HQ, I understand you are welcome to look at the line item budget as a member of the AMA. You might want to check on that before making the trip, however.
10-05-2005, 08:16 PM
#78
RE: **PLACE YOUR BETS**
Looks like Doug dished out a pretty good whooping in '03. I honestly still believe Doug will win, but I don't think you will see Horrace lagging as far back as last time. My latest guess is something like this, and I am also guessing around 22,000 total votes will be cast.
Doug Holland 12250 Winner
Horrace Cain 9250 Strong Contender
Write-Ins 500 Someone here who probally would have done the best job!
THE ABOVE IS JUST A GUESS AND BASED ON NO REAL INFORMATION, SO PLEASE TAKE MY ABOVE NUMBERS IN FUN!
Doug Holland 12250 Winner
Horrace Cain 9250 Strong Contender
Write-Ins 500 Someone here who probally would have done the best job!
THE ABOVE IS JUST A GUESS AND BASED ON NO REAL INFORMATION, SO PLEASE TAKE MY ABOVE NUMBERS IN FUN!
