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Smaller AMA Convention?

Old 12-29-2005, 10:47 AM
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CoosBayLumber
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Default Smaller AMA Convention?

I obtained a list of prospective exhibitors for the upcoming Ontario AMA Convention. There looks to be about 60-70% of the amount as at the Jan. 2005 convention. I know of a few firms who will NEVER return, as they are not in business anymore, but anyone have an idea as to why fewer vendors are listed?

I understood they expanded the Jan. 2005 event because there were requests and not enough space. I read only 3-4 absolutely new vendors this year. Or is it practice for vendors to send in at last minute and thus not get reported in?



Wm.
Old 12-29-2005, 12:39 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

AMA is loosing members, convention not at a central place in US, who cares ie all of these reasons.
Old 12-29-2005, 02:26 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

I know of a few firms who will NEVER return, as they are not in business anymore, but anyone have an idea as to why fewer vendors are listed?
Just ideas, however having been associated with the business, the AMA, and the sport for some 55+ years, I do have some "ideas". This list is NOT in any significant order, just random as they come to mind.

As you stated, ".... they are not in business anymore, ..." That is a good reason. Far too many hobbyists get into the business and find it to be a lot of hard work or actually a 'BUSINESS' and they either lack the profit to sustain their business and/or make a comfortable living from it, or simply find the business takes far too much time of their normal sport-hobby time so they say "outa' here" and the hobbyist then goes back to having fun. BTDT

Different market today: Many magazines and the web sites make shopping easier. There is no need for the consumer to go to a show to find the products. Besides, everyone basically sells the same products regardless of the name on them, and those that work the hardest will survive over those that are in it for part-time.

Due to the ARF and Toy products of today, why would an ARF / Toy distributor want to support a show where many scratch-built models are on display? That just may make the consumer alerted to a better way to have something really nice. No support for the show means less consumers at the show which means those consumers will only see advertised ARF/Toy products and mostly the same at flying fields. Therefore more ad and web site sales. The show is simply a waste of time and possibly a sales-diversion for the importers.

There was a time when a Trade Show was just that. No over-the-counter sales were made until maybe at the end of the show when large display items, like kits, were sold to avoid shipping them back. Now a trade-show is just another flea-market. That cuts into LHS sales, so some LHS try to avoid that distributor's products. If a distributor is not there, then he will sometimes receive preferential treatment from the LHS buyers.

It costs a considerable amount for the larger distributor / importer to attend a show. He may find it more profitable to pay for those "team" members to attend events around the country and display the wares plus get the free advertising in a model magazine article. The model magazines then have no problem with prostitution of their magazine for a fat advertisement.

There is lots more where this came from.

Old 12-29-2005, 03:11 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

It will be interesting to see the fall out of this show. Major expansion of floor space (?), and who knows what the attendance will be....
Old 12-29-2005, 05:24 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

It's simple: RCX (RADIO CONTROL EXPO) Anaheim.
Old 12-29-2005, 07:37 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

RCX is all about surface vehicles, i.e. cars/trucks.

The AMA show is the only model airplane show in town. I'll be there.
Old 12-29-2005, 08:10 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

The question was; "why is the AMA show smaller this year". Some of the explanations that are being offered includes wither a major hobby distributor will show or not. The reason some of them will not show up is because they make more $$$ by showing at the RCX. This also includes some of the major magazines that have shifted their focus onto the products the RCX offers. Just search RC Universe for it's reports on the last three RCX shows. You will find a wealth of information. Do the same for the last three AMA west coast shows and compare.

The RCX displays aircraft too.
Old 12-29-2005, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

I like the no-nonsense attitude of " Sir, Hossfly " . He has highlited why very controlled and bottom lined industries DO NOT need to waste time, manhours or a shortage of staff for little or no return.
That money is far better spent on trips to cheap labor countries for new suppliers that make a better product CHEAPER.
They are TRYING to make more profit for their free time.
Not many RC 'ers can make any part of what they fly. So what can you sell them?
Old 12-30-2005, 01:46 AM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

I attended the RCX show last May. Somehow I missed all the aircraft on display.........
Old 12-30-2005, 02:14 AM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

ORIGINAL: Kmot

I attended the RCX show last May. Somehow I missed all the aircraft on display.........
Guess it depends on what type of airplane you are looking for:













There are more: http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=525
Old 12-30-2005, 01:47 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

ORIGINAL: CoosBayLumber

I obtained a list of prospective exhibitors for the upcoming Ontario AMA Convention. There looks to be about 60-70% of the amount as at the Jan. 2005 convention.
What amuses me here is that everyone has taken the above estimate as gospel. Unfortunately I do not have the 2005 numbers handy, but a look at the 2006 numbers shows 128 registered exhibitors in 168 booths (1.3 booths per exhibitor), PLUS the new AMA village area that frees up booth space used in previous years for AMA related stuff (about 6 to 8 booths).

If 128 is 60% to 70% of 2005 then that means that there were between 183 and 213 exhibitors in 2005. Seems a little high to me. Could be, but I'm willing to bet not.

More importantly, even if it is true (which it has NOT been shown to be so), is the assumption that this is a reflection on AMA rather than a reflection of the general economy, state of the hobby industry, gasoline (transportation) prices, and so on.

As far as RCX goes, yep they had planes. But they had nowhere near 128 airplane related exhibitors. And let's be real, this it IS a car show primarily. Plus they are a for profit show designed simply to get your money from you. At least the AMA show supports AMA programs. Amusingly, the AMA will attend and exhibit at the show.

But this all means nothing to those that simply want to bash the AMA regardless of facts or truth.
Old 12-30-2005, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?


ORIGINAL: SoCal GliderGuider


Guess it depends on what type of airplane you are looking for:
Seriously!!! [X(]

Was that in a seperate hall or something? I saw all the cars and the dirt track.
Old 12-30-2005, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

ORIGINAL: Kmot
Was that in a seperate hall or something? I saw all the cars and the dirt track.
One tends to see what they want to see.
Old 12-30-2005, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

ORIGINAL: SoCal GliderGuider
One tends to see what they want to see.
This is so ironically profound coming from you!!!

Many see the AMA as a decent organization working to advance model aviation.

You see it as an inherently corrupt organization hell bent on stealing the member's money and making false representations to the detriment of all who associate with AMA.

I guess one truly does see what one wants to!!
Old 12-30-2005, 03:18 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

Really had no intention of any "bashing" but since you brought up a few points.

ORIGINAL: Phaedrus-MMVI
What amuses me here is that everyone has taken the above estimate as gospel. Unfortunately I do not have the 2005 numbers handy, but a look at the 2006 numbers shows 128 registered exhibitors in 168 booths (1.3 booths per exhibitor), PLUS the new AMA village area that frees up booth space used in previous years for AMA related stuff (about 6 to 8 booths).
The amount of floor space being used is what is "bigger".

ORIGINAL: Phaedrus-MMVI
If 128 is 60% to 70% of 2005 then that means that there were between 183 and 213 exhibitors in 2005. Seems a little high to me. Could be, but I'm willing to bet not.

More importantly, even if it is true (which it has NOT been shown to be so), is the assumption that this is a reflection on AMA rather than a reflection of the general economy, state of the hobby industry, gasoline (transportation) prices, and so on.

As far as RCX goes, yep they had planes. But they had nowhere near 128 airplane related exhibitors. And let's be real, this it IS a car show primarily. Plus they are a for profit show designed simply to get your money from you. At least the AMA show supports AMA programs. Amusingly, the AMA will attend and exhibit at the show.
The only thing the AMA convention/show has supported is the mid winter vacation the EC is taking and the dog and pony show they put on for several days. It is to be noted that the Big Boys of the hobby world will NOT be in attendance. This is not to imply that their attendance would enhance the "convention". They make decisions based on economics not loyalty.

Splintering off the flying from the general hobby and renaming a show a convention for tax reasons just alienates any non flying hobbyists that may have the inclination to try flying more than park models and electric helicopters. At one time you could find all of the RCX distributors at the Northrop's "show". Even water tanks and car race tracks. This is the price the AMA pays for it's exclusiveness.

ORIGINAL: Phaedrus-MMVI
But this all means nothing to those that simply want to bash the AMA regardless of facts or truth.
Sure thing. Depends on who's facts doesn't it.

There was a time in the early 70's where one could take their wives or girlfriends to the same hobby show as there was a broad spectrum of exhibitors and displays. Most anything that used the word "hobby".

There may be a sufficient flyer base in the SoCal area to keep the AMA convention running along for years. It's obvious from the success of the RCX shows that there is room for "other" hobbies. Now why didn't the AMA figure out that to draw a crowd they had to present what the crowd wants where it wants to go. It's this short sightedness that will doom the AMA to insignificance.
Old 12-30-2005, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

ORIGINAL: Phaedrus-MMVI

ORIGINAL: SoCal GliderGuider
One tends to see what they want to see.
This is so ironically profound coming from you!!!

Many see the AMA as a decent organization working to advance model aviation.

You see it as an inherently corrupt organization hell bent on stealing the member's money and making false representations to the detriment of all who associate with AMA.

I guess one truly does see what one wants to!!
Oooo! I sense a personal attack here!

I'm going to call you on this. Quote me where I have said what you imply.

In some cases the AMA does not do what it says it does. Unfortunately these examples are critical to the furtherment of the AMA doctrine. There is a tremendous amount of irrational unwillingness among some AMA members to acknowledge the AMA's short comings. To the point of hysteria in some cases.

The AMA is the sum of it's members. At least the less than 14% that don't see it as an insurance company.

It is not my intent to hijack this thread. The dynamics of creating and running hobby shows in southern California is the general topic. Specially using the AMA "convention" as an example and comparison.
Old 12-30-2005, 04:30 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

So Cal. Those are great photos. I will wait for your shots of this 2006 show.
Old 12-30-2005, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

ORIGINAL: cyclops2

So Cal. Those are great photos. I will wait for your shots of this 2006 show.
Wish I had that quality of a digital camera! Go to the thead I linked at the bottom. Has great coverage of the rest of the RCX including that "other stuff".
Old 12-30-2005, 07:35 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?


ORIGINAL: SoCal GliderGuider

ORIGINAL: Kmot
Was that in a seperate hall or something? I saw all the cars and the dirt track.
One tends to see what they want to see.
How about just answering my question? Was there a seperate hall for aircraft?

I saw the Hobby People store. I missed the other aircraft displays.

BTW, RCX completely sucked, compared to the iHobby show. Who needs rap and hip-hop blaring so loud over the PA system you can't converse with your spouse? Maybe that's why I missed the aircraft, I couldn't stand the environment of the RCX show.
Old 12-30-2005, 09:21 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

Are any of the AMA committee members thinking of Kmots feelings of a hip hop and rap revue?
I agree with Kmot , and I did NOT go!!
The reason I buy Insurance, I mean membership, is for lawsuits. Otherwise I see no real purpose for AMA.
We ran contests and meets without them for years.
But then we did not have a pack of rabid competitive freaks clawing away at each other to WIN.
Just because different groups come and go in control of AMA does not mean I must agree with any of the admitted SPECIAL INTEREST groups.
SPECIAL INTEREST groups by their own admission DO NOT care about anyone else.
Why do you think there is so much of these garbage topics going on ?
Old 12-31-2005, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

ORIGINAL: cyclops2

Are any of the AMA committee members thinking of Kmots feelings of a hip hop and rap revue?
I agree with Kmot , and I did NOT go!!
Since the RCX show is not done by the AMA, and it is the RCX show that was being referred to, I do not understand what you are asking here. The AMA show has to the best of my knowledge (and I have been at every one for all three days since they took it over from the IMS folks) has NEVER played blaring rap music over the PA.


The reason I buy Insurance, I mean membership, is for lawsuits. Otherwise I see no real purpose for AMA.
If that works for you, then great. Clearly you cannot find a comparable service at an acceptable price or else you would not waste your money on the AMA. So clearly they are providing a value to you.


We ran contests and meets without them for years.
Really? What kind and where?? Every contest of any note that I have been aware of for say the last 35 years has required AMA membership. The TOC is one exception. But then again, that was not an open contest for the common folk.

Old 12-31-2005, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

ORIGINAL: Kmot

How about just answering my question? Was there a seperate hall for aircraft?

I saw the Hobby People store. I missed the other aircraft displays.

BTW, RCX completely sucked, compared to the iHobby show. Who needs rap and hip-hop blaring so loud over the PA system you can't converse with your spouse? Maybe that's why I missed the aircraft, I couldn't stand the environment of the RCX show.
Same hall.



Old 12-31-2005, 08:32 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

I was flying in 1950 UC and then we had RC and contests with 25 to 50 fliers all weekend. Some classes were so close we gave out 2 --1st places. They both had earned it.

We had more volunteers and pilots then you could imagine. NJ was the boonies then.
We RARELY had a problem. And we did not use AMA long after it became fashionable.

"The more we use and depend on technology. The less human we become." Quote from Cyclops2, 2005.
Old 12-31-2005, 08:40 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?


ORIGINAL: SoCal GliderGuider


Same hall.


Thank you.
Old 12-31-2005, 08:55 PM
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Default RE: Smaller AMA Convention?

ORIGINAL: cyclops2

I was flying in 1950 UC and then we had RC and contests with 25 to 50 fliers all weekend. Some classes were so close we gave out 2 --1st places. They both had earned it.
There you go!! My recollection and experience only goes back 35 years. 1950, wow!! So 55 years ago you did not worry about sanctions, etc. OK. I think it is safe to say that we live in a much different world today than existed 55 years ago.

FYI, one of the largest settlements for the AMA insurance in recent years involved experienced control line pilots.

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