TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

1.) I just heard this idea today from a co-worker. I thought it sounded interesting. So, I thought I would bounce it off you guys . Should clubs limit the number of non-flying members? I don't mean to include fledgling pilots that want their wings, just those career club groupies that never have flown and don't intend to .
2.) Many clubs seem pretty large these days with memberships often over 100 members. And many clubs now have membership caps. Sometimes active RC flyers are unable to join a club due to the membership cap. Should non-flying members be asked to resign to allow room for the active RC flyers ?

redfox435cat

Why would you wan to limit it? free dues money. For the larger clubs that do limit membership then yes they should make room on the roster or increase the limit. Like our club we have roughly 100 members and maybe 20 fly regularly and anther 20 every so often and the rest show up once in a blue moon if at all. our feild isn't very big so if everyone did deciide to show up we would be in trouble. I've been to a couple packed feilds were they put new members on a trial basis, after a month or so the mebership vote to allow or dismiss the new member. That of course stemmed for a few bad apples and is a very busy club

ira d

I say no members = dues so if someone wants to pay money to be part of a group
of modelers even though they may not fly I see no problem with that.

SSRCCPREZ

We have floated a "social membership" around a few times for just those people. My country club offers it for those who do not or can no longer play golf, but enjoys all the other social aspects. However, social members do not have the right to vote,because they are not full members and non-playing/flying members should not have a say in what happens to flying/playing members or the rules they must obide by.

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

Just be carefull of the 'experts' who do not fly and want to run the club! Been there, saw that!!!!

Bob101

More people to pay for the mowing so I don't have to and don't take up airspace...so what's the problem?

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

We don't worry as much about the non-flying members as we do the non-working ones.

captinjohn

Question....why do so many people join a RCclub...but never fly? I cannot understand it. I am glad they help pay for everything with the money for dues. It is probably different for each . Maby some like to just organize.....some like to talk.....some like to have others to be around....some like to help others. Watch out for the ones who like to run everthing and make rules!!!! And get rid of the clicky type for sure. Capt,n

Hossfly

Absolutely NOT. As others have said here, the non-flying member helps pay the bills for all that do fly. Actually, Barney, tell your "co-worker" that such an idea is about as asinine an idea as one can come up with. Of course if that co-worker wishes to contribute the monies that eliminated non-fly members pay for HIS/HER fun-time, then perhaps the idea may bear listening to.

You belong to a club that has big bills. It sponsors big events, 3 already this year and 3 more BIG events to go. With near 130 members the club still has problems with getting people to accomplish the work chores of the events. If a few more of you guys, even though you may fly a few times a month, would come out and help us make these events even better, then maybe we could make more profits to keep YOUR dues lower.

Jetero has a number of members that contribute their $150 each year yet never show up at the flying field. That helps all that do. It's a pristine field that has better facilities than almost every field in the area outside the public tax-supported places.

Your "co-worker" is not very familiar with the business of running a large private flying facility on club-owned property. It takes a lot of work. Aren't you glad you don't ever have to mow? Non-flying members go far to support those mowing contracts. Then there are real-estate taxes, constant maintenance on something and the constant clean-up of the messes left by those FLYING members that think others are there to be their house-keepers.[:-]

You remember Ken D. He was a CL modeler all his life. He never soloed out in RC. He had a house full of RC airplanes and equipment. HE WAS THE BEST CLUB - TREASURER EVER FOR 5 YEARS, until his health played out. Ken passed away last year, but I care not that he never soloed RC. He loved being with the modelers. Actually, when he was dressed for the viewing, his wife said, "That's not Ken." She redid him in his Club - Shirt and Jacket, and placed his Cap in his hand. That was Ken. I will forever miss him.
Bill Moore, AMA life member, pays his dues each year and I don't think he has been on the property of the current field. Another member cannot participate due to a heart condition -- had a transplant a few years ago -- but gets out to talk ever so often. For anyone that thinks this person, me, would do anything to deny those persons the fellowship they love with modelers still active, then think again. I will stand FOR them all the way.

Limited Membership: A club has to do what it has to do. When I lived in IL our facility was small. We leased our property from owners at a high price for those days. We maintained a 100 member limit. There was a waiting list. When some guy created problems, then he was out and another came in. Actually the limit was because having a PRIVATE facility near Chicago, we were stampeded with newbies every weekend sent out by all the hobby-shops who were trying to retain new customers. At the county facilities the newbies were ignored somewhat especially on weekends. We got a bit tired of them also so we simply stopped the LHSs from sending so many to us. Each club has to do what it deems needed for its own situation.
Of course a club cannot get the AMA gold-club status with limited membership. BFD!

NOW I wish Jetero had 10,000 non flying members paying dues. There would then be an air-conditioned club-house, hired kitchen help, hard-surfaced runways, AND 'OOTER'-TYPE GIRLS SERVING SOFT DRINKS TO THE PILOT STATIONS, ALONG WITH OTHER REFRESHMENTS AFTER FLYING." Life COULD be much better, all with non-flying members.

YNOT

Hoss, yer sounding like one of those grummpy old men that gives club members bad names and yer not like that.

What would be wrong with going the other way. Don't limit membership, increase it.

Increase the membership by the percentage of members who do not fly.

I know several club members who love the social part of the club and do not fly. Some don't even know how to fly and that's great. I luv hanging out with them and often offer a plane for them to fly with or with out a buddy box. Many of these members make the club work when it comes to contest, events, etc. Weather they fly or not, they have all the same rights as any other club member and this keeps things in check.

It would seem reasonable to allow a clubs membership to grow, if limitied, by the amount of non flying members. Allow non flying people to join? Sure, as long as the non flying members does not exceed the percentage of active flyers. Active flyer would be those who use the faciltiy at least 3 weekend days a month.

Don't limit, increase.

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

I'm surprised by the response here. If they want to be members, let them be members. In the club that I'm with right now, we have 65-70 members. At the club meetings, maybe 30 show up. We had a club work day and only about 10 showed up. We have about 10 core flyers and another 20 that fly maybe once a month. the rest don't really ever show. I've been in this club for two years and I have met only about 66% of the members. However, these people who don't participate help do things like buy(via dues) a new mower. As far as I see it, let them pay the full dues. I'm sure the club could use the money.


50%

scottrc

I've been to large clubs that to curb the membership limit, went to flying sign-up sheets. These were kinda like tee-time schedules that golf coarses use. Not only flyers signed up for time slots to fly, the club was able to get information on how frequent members flew and could get an idea when peak tmes were so they could schedule newbies during non-peak times. or could pursuade high hour pilots to give up a time slot for a low time pilot if asked.

I guess it works alright, but like everything else, could be abused.

Scott

Hossfly

Hey Ynot, maybe we need to read my post again. I am with YOU in every way. I do not want LIMITED membership and as i said I'm all for the most that will join. Perhaps I did make a bit too much on those that don't fly as being good for the club. However that seemed to be the topic more or less. So fly or no fly let 'em come.

I did comment on being in a situation where we decided on a limit. That was in Chicagoland a few years ago like 1972-'85. Different world now! Still I have no grief with any club that makes a decision based on THEIR particular situation. Not being a democrat/socialist, I really try to refrain from telling others how to run their business, unless they trespass on my turf!!! Of course I may pass a bit of friendly advice now and then.

So if I sounded grouchy about something, I did not mean to, except that I will not deny a person that social time with fellow modelers whether they fly or don't fly.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

Well, I have read the responses here and I have had personal conversations with pilots that I know. There seems to be a very broad spectrum of attitudes. They range from "the more the merrier" to "they should kick out all of the non-flyers". I suppose I would fall somewhere in the middle, perhaps allow the non-flyers into the club with a social membership that doesn't count toward the cap and with no voting privileges . If the non-flyers want to socialize, they can. But I don't believe they should be making decisions that don't concern them.

David Cutler

Limit the number of non-fliers?

Of course not! It's a hobby, not a job!

What do you suggest? Having flying police who keep an eye on how much you fly and if you have a break and just want to hang out with friends, they come up and give you a ticket and tell you to leave?

Don't we have enough rules in life?



-David C.

captinjohn

Guys...after reading more....I do see why a lot of members do not fly. Its OK. We all should appreciate the help they give and the social part of it too. We are all going to get old someday and perhaps not fly as mutch. But we sure are going to want to keep in close contack with the others we meet and have good times with at the club or field. I say do not limit...but increase membership. That was my goal all the time I flew since 1974. I have taught oner twenty some people how to fly RC. Most the time...I always took a extra trainer plane, just for new visitors could try FLYING RC.......its FUN!!!!!!!!!!! Capt,n

Hossfly

Aww Barney, com'on now. You don't mean all that. Then tell me and the others here how you would handle the guys that show NO CONCERN about anything? What about the majority of club members that fly every so often, usually during the slack times, which in itself is very good, yet they never attend a club meeting, never support the club activities, not there for any event work and/or clean-up times before and/or after a big event, or just a general clean-up day, never there to offer or vote on club business items, or elections, and overall just don't care about things that DO or NOT concern them? HEY, they reap the benefits of those other people that pay the same dues YET also DO ALL THE LABOR and CHORES that other unconcerned sport fliers never dirty their hands with. Should these non-performers also belong on some special membership status?

BTW, we do have a few non-fliers that do jump in and help with the chores, so what is it in the club that does not concern them? Maybe there should be a tier for working non-fliers just above the social group. Question again, should the NON-WORKING Flier be on a tier above or below the working non-flier? Hey! I know where I would place them, but that will get covered at a club meeting. Not to worry as they are not concerned with anything and will not care.

Personally I rather have a non-flier that is interested in the club's well-being help make those important decisions than an occasional flier whose only interest is that the grass is cut just before HE gets to the field whenever that time may be, which will NOT be a time to cut the grass himself. [>:]

jjhayes

I am from the other side of the fence. I am what most of you are calling a non-flying or social member. [&o] So with saying that I believe that if we want to be in the club then let us. As many have said it is money coming in without you having to give up air time. My club has 60-80 members with about half not flying or attending meetings.

To answer captainjohn's question of reason why we don't fly. I agree with Hossfly that for some it's a health reason. Myself, it's time. I am 30, work full time, and a couple of years ago I had the dumba** idea to return to school to get my degree. (at least that's how it feels after struggling through some of my math classes) Plus a 2 yr old and a wife that is as busy as I am outside of working when I have free time (studies, honey-dos done and someone else to watch the future flier) all I want is to sit and relax.

I do what I can to help the club with events, attend meetings, work days (if I hear of them), and so on. I would love to get out on the flight line more often but until I can convince someone to add another day to the week or some such thing my flying is going to have to wait. [:@]

airbatic

PilotFighter.

Just what is your question?

88

kraus

Ken Erickson

Your thread got expanded a bit.



"Personally I rather have a non-flier that is interested in the club's well-being help make those important decisions than an occasional flier whose only interest is that the grass is cut just before HE gets to the field whenever that time may be, which will NOT be a time to cut the grass himself."

Hoss is right on in that. He even managed to say it fairly nicely.

Any club eliminating non-flying members is just shooting themselves in the budget, AND insulting previously loyal members. Expand the limit, taking into avvount the number of members who fly. The only reason to limit membership is to control congestion at the field. My current club has, at times, had two (2) fields.

Ken, AMA 19352

scottrc

Hoss,

The type of club member that you just described as never attending meetings, work days, and such but flies every now and then, well, you just described me.

Like jjhays, I am 30ish, have a full time professional career that is really taking off, adding kids to my family, adding additions to my house, belong to a number of civic and professional organizations and clubs other than my RC club, so I am little, if ever seen by my fellow club members but once in a blue moon anymore.

I pay my dues and fly when I can, which is usually a 20 minute hop at lunch time or on my way back from the grocery store or lumber yard.

So, does that mean that I will get kicked out a club because I cannot work a mow or clean-up day? Or, have to pay more to use the field? I have been told many times here that if you cannot afford to fly, both in time and money, then get out of the hobby. Just being a part-timer doesn't cut it. When I hear this, I have to ask myself, is paying $58 dollars for AMA plus club dues really worth it?

It seems I hear this a lot from guys who are retired and have more time but complain that they cannot recruit younger members to do all the scut work. Times are much different than the 1950s, both spouses work, jobs and commutes take more time, and the kiddies seem to demand more time for all the extracurricular activities they are involved in. However, why should that disqualify a young guy from getting to fly in a club when he ahas a little time to take a break from his life.

Who makes up for what I cannot provide to the club is the large amount of peanut gallery participants that do not fly, but spend time at the field drinking coffee, picking up rocks, and painting the clubhouse, and lend some comic relief or advice to me as I set my plane up to fly. All I can provide is help in the funding for the paint and maybe some companionship when I do show up. Again, is that a bad thing?

The issue where members need to be rejected lies in attitude. I have been involved where the club has a guy who never flies, but makes an ***** of himself by being a gossiper who does nothing but complain and causes hardship. But how many of these likes are we talking about? 1 or 2 per hundred?

Again, we should never try to prevent the masses from joining. Those who work the field but never fly are promoting the club and hobby, and those who cannot work the field, yet fly, are also promoting the club and hobby by getting use out of it. What good is a nice runway when it is maintained by five people but used by three?

Scott

Jim Thomerson

I used to be in a free flight club which had monthly club contests as well as larger contests. One of the guys was the CD for all of our contests; but, over several years, I never ever saw him fly an airplane. Was he an example of the kind of nonflying member we are discussing? I'll take all those I can get.

fargophil

My Feedback: (3)

Due to vision problems I haven't flown for at leat 3 years and in all reality may never be able to fly again. One club I belong to has an associated membership that I pay the minimal dues for to help the club. Also when the club has events I man the grill and do the lunch as its something I can do, something I enjoy doing and something the club needs. Non flying but working members are needed.

scottrc

Amen to the non-flying members who want to participate in RC.

Some are builders, some are mowers, some are organizers, some are flyers, some are editors for newletters, some like to do the accounting, and some like to sit back and watch the planes fly while having companionship, yet none may never want to take the transmitter and fly themselves.

Our hobby has all kinds, and needs all kinds of willingness and interests. Back when I raced motocross, I knew of a women who was blind, but did race data collection on her brail typewriter, which was a very time consuming yet vital job. She loved being around motocycles, and although could not race, she got to be involved. So again, in support of this discussion, one doesn't have to be flying a plane in order to enjoy and support the hobby.

Scott

ballgunner

My Feedback: (1)

Used to belong to a Yacht Club that was almost purely a sailing club. Membership in a Yacht club had, at that time some social advantages and prestige. We soon had some members, proposed by friends, that had no interest in boats, just in the bar. If there were any unresolved complaints they were from the non-sailors. It soon came down to not reminding them when their dues were due and they were dropped if a certain amount of time passed. Non-pilots or non-modelers should either get with the program or find some other way to pass their time. Social members are notorious for non-participation in work parties.