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Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

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Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

Old 12-21-2002, 09:56 PM
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Cleared4Crash
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

I'm just curious to know if anyone here has filed any insurance claims with the AMA? If so, what was it for? Was it a hassle? Did you get reimbursed for anything? How long did it take?
Old 12-22-2002, 02:51 AM
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Jim Branaum
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Default Re: Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

Originally posted by Cleared4Crash
I'm just curious to know if anyone here has filed any insurance claims with the AMA? If so, what was it for? Was it a hassle? Did you get reimbursed for anything? How long did it take?
*I* have not filed a claim with the AMA, however I have two friends who have.

One filed a medical claim that was paid. He seemed to be pleased with the outcome, so that is all *I* can report.

The other guy dropped a giant scale P-47 through a neighboring manufacturing plant roof at a private field. They were not going to give him back the remains of his engine/radio/trash until they were properly compensated (hole in roof fixed). So he tried to file a claim with AMA. They told him to contact his homeowners carrier and file a claim there first. He was unhappy because it took a lot of paperwork, time, effort and the building owner was not a happy camper.

However, we have to remember AMA insurance is SECONDARY and only pays when you have no other insurance or your other insurance has reached its limit. That means my friend SHOULD have contacted his agent on the homeowners policy first rather than go to AMA.

Some of us just don't read.
Old 01-03-2003, 11:31 PM
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TheSollyLama
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Default useless

which means it's pretty well useless insurance.
Instead of killing off your homeowners THEN trying to invoke secondary insurance (which is notoriously hard to do) why not spend that money on Homeowners and be covered off the bat? The AMA garbage only covers a very narrow field of liability. Homeowners will cover everything, not just this one hobby.
People into hobbies like to get things specific to that hobby. That's why there are checkbook ads in nearly every hobby publication with relevant artwork. There seems to be some clinging to AMA insurance because it's hobby specific.
That's exactly why it's a waste of money. You will be FAR better off raising your coverage under Homeowners and protect your entire existance rather than a couple model planes specifically.
And homeowners doesn't care if you were on an AMA field or not. The AMA insurance is only good if you are flying certain planes at certain places.
So even for the price, it's not terribly useful except in very extreme circumstances. Even if Homeowners cost twice the AMA cost for equal coverage, it's a much better deal since it's not limited to a specific genre of hobby, it will cover you for the part of your life you're not flying as well and it covers EVERYTHING you own. Not to mention it's PRIMARY. Fund the pool that is most realistically going to be drained, not some sub-chapter of it.
Old 01-03-2003, 11:51 PM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

I recalled reading something about the AMA insurance is only an extension to your existing homeowner insurance. But nothing about if you don't own a property or have no home insurance or renter insurance. I was a member of the AMA for several before I bought my house. I didn't even have renter insurance during that time. I wonder what the AMA would tell me if I filed a claim during that period!?!
Old 01-04-2003, 01:13 AM
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TheSollyLama
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Default amazing

It amazes me that people are deluded into actually believing they NEED 2 mil worth of coverage for a hobby, but don't carry near that for the other 95% of thier lives. Is it just gulliblility?
Does anyone out there have 2 mil worth of coverage on your car? Even though you spend a heck of alot more time in it then flying a model? Even though it weighs a couple tons and thousands die every year because of them? That you're FAR more likely to die in a car than by R/C anything? No, of course not.
Now tell me I need the AMA to make me pay for 2 mil and that I somehow NEED that just to fart around with a balsa wood model in a field.
Reality check, folks.
And hey, here's a novel idea (except that most every other group has figured it out) injury waivers for spectators. Hey, you choose to go where little wooden missiles are zipping about and you shouldn't be able to sue if one gets stuffed in your ear. Every motocross track I've ever been to made the riders sign waivers, and some even made spectators. You assume the risk for placing yourself where harm may come to you. Read the back of a hockey ticket sometime.
Course of Action:
1. limit claims to begin with by adopting waivers.
2. negotiate a sensible amount of insurance coverage for members.
That will dramatically cut the outlay for member insurance.
It makes no sense to carry a couple million in coverage as a secondary with a couple hundred thousand as a primary. Worse, since that secondary is only useful for flying model planes in specific locations. It's not bloody likely to ever be useful. But the primary, however is for your entire life and MUCH more likely to see activity.
Old 01-04-2003, 02:13 AM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

I had an injury claim.. Even with medical bills, there was some deductable, and the AMA picked much of that up.

Don't want to go into the details of the settlement because that's personal. But FYI:
1. I already knew that the AMA was a secondary provider, and
2. The service from the AMA was excellent.

They will ask for verification of charges, which they should (to prevent false claims). And for the record, the AMA settles several claims every year - some for big $$.

Also, what if your primary provider gives you, say $100,000 in insurance and you hit someone with your plane. You can bet that $100K won't begin to cover it all.. That's where the AMA comes in.

Think of your membership as a cheap insurance policy, and when you consider how much $$ you spend every year in this hobby, the cost of AMA dues isn't a huge impact.

Just my thoughts,

Bob
Old 01-04-2003, 02:37 AM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

Hi,
I filed two claims with AMA.
The first was when my son got his hand whacked by an 18" prop that was attached to a G-38. Scariest moment I've had in 50 yrs of modeling. I saw pieces go flying, thought it was my son's fingers. Thank God I only use wood props and it was the prop pieces that went flying when the prop broke. If it was a composite prop he would have lost at least two fingers. If I remember right AMA paid around $7000 for the medical. It was one of the highest payouts for several years. There was no problem at all. They asked for an accident report and medical bills and it was taken care of quickly and professionly.
The other claim involved a Byron Ryan that I had bought at a hobby shop. I brought it home and left it in the trunck and my car was stolen! It was found several years ago abandoned in NYC, it was used a cab! I submitted a police report, copy of the bill of sale, waited several months to see if it would be recovered and AMA sent me the value of the kit. Don't remember the exact amount, I think it was a $1000, but it happened so long ago I can't be sure.
In both cases AMA provided really excellent service.
Regards,
Jon
Old 01-04-2003, 07:43 AM
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Jim Branaum
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Default Re: amazing

Originally posted by TheSollyLama


SNIP
SNIP

Worse, since that secondary is only useful for flying model planes in specific locations. It's not bloody likely to ever be useful. But the primary, however is for your entire life and MUCH more likely to see activity.
One of the biggest problems in this hobby is all the nameless people who insist on spreading B*A*D information. All that does is stir things up and prevents people interested in finding solutions from getting REAL information and spreading it around for others to consider in a normal human fashion.

Lets start with the repeated comments about exclusive location requirements. AMA insurance coverage is in effect for any AMA member flying any place as long as the Safety Code is followed. There are N*O* requirements for the flying site to be approved in advance. To say otherwise is to intentionally try to deliver damage to our organization with comments that are clearly made of common fertilizer.

The next area where there seems to be some misunderstanding being spread about concerns the "secondary" nature of the coverage and what that term MEANS. Someone wondered if they would have been covered while renting an apartment without renters insurance. The term secondary means that the AMA coverage takes over for the AMA member when he has no insurance or his primary carrier is finished according to the previously agreed to liability limits of that particular policy. Remember that most mortgage lenders only REQUIRE fire and extended coverage, not the Homeowner portion which has the liability component. If you don't believe that one, call your agent and ask.

THAT MEANS: All AMA members have coverage limits of at least the amount of the AMA policy and if the Safety Code was followed that is available. The ONLY place where the AMA coverage is SECONDARY is where there is another carrier available. In other words if you have homeowners (or renters) insurance coverage, the liability portion of that policy pays first.

Now as far as the amount of the AMA coverage think about how much your life is worth TODAY. How much would it take to insure your wife and kids life style would not have to change because you died? That is part of the logic behind the level of coverage the AMA has arranged for. Comparing the level of AMA insurance coverage with what many carry for auto liability limits is sort of like comparing the Beech D-18 to a 767. They both have two engines and were both designed to carry people.

FYI. I have been told that there have been SEVERAL very large claims paid by the AMA in the last few years. I have been lead to believe that there are a couple of outstanding claims that will probably result in large payouts in the system today. Those two pieces of information support a much larger policy than most carry for auto coverage.
Old 01-04-2003, 04:08 PM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

Dream Evil,

You make a very good point. In my view, increasing the coverage to $2MM only paints a bigger liability target on our collective chests. As a general rule, juries will award large sums when it is to be paid by a faceless corporation (insurance co.), but would not take from an individual such sums (greater than a coverage limit of say $1MM).

So now we have this warm and fuzzy feeling that we have all this coverage. Large awards are being paid out. The personal injury legal 'fraternity' can see that we are a target that can be beat. A few more high awards come through and our great and wise ones in Muncie decide that we need more coverage. I think you can see that there is a no-win potential to this spiral in the legal climate of this country.

I speak from personal experience. I have had a good company fold up under me due to the very same scenario. If this continues in our good hobby, I am not concerned, but will be very disappointed. I will just get rid of my big birds, and convert to gliders, flying at the local school yard, without AMA membership. I will be at no significant risk in this pursuit.

Bedford
Old 01-04-2003, 04:34 PM
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J_R
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

Originally posted by beepee
Dream Evil,

You make a very good point. In my view, increasing the coverage to $2MM only paints a bigger liability target on our collective chests. As a general rule, juries will award large sums when it is to be paid by a faceless corporation (insurance co.), but would not take from an individual such sums (greater than a coverage limit of say $1MM).

So now we have this warm and fuzzy feeling that we have all this coverage. Large awards are being paid out. The personal injury legal 'fraternity' can see that we are a target that can be beat. A few more high awards come through and our great and wise ones in Muncie decide that we need more coverage. I think you can see that there is a no-win potential to this spiral in the legal climate of this country.

I speak from personal experience. I have had a good company fold up under me due to the very same scenario. If this continues in our good hobby, I am not concerned, but will be very disappointed. I will just get rid of my big birds, and convert to gliders, flying at the local school yard, without AMA membership. I will be at no significant risk in this pursuit.

Bedford
I have a great deal of sympathy for your concerns. Having said that, let's look at a real claim that took place a couple of years ago. A toddler was playing while dad flew. The club had been erecting a wind sock. The process was not finished. The pole fell on the child, crushing him to death. Now the question.

If it was your kid, how much would you settle for after it was determined that the club did in fact have liability?

JR
Old 01-04-2003, 05:03 PM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

First off, a toddler should not be around the field un attended. I would not even consider taking my 5 year old with out another adult to supervise while I flew. This is just bad parenting if the father let the toddler wonderabout while he flew.
Now I can not comprehend losing one of my children. If it was truely someone elses fault, you bet I would try to gain as much as I could. Nothing can replace my children. However the best way to hurt most people or companies is thru the wallet.
Now if it was neglect on my part, i.e. leaving a toddler to walk about in a dangerous area, then sorry but there is no one to blame, I do not think the club or AMA should be held completely responsible. The father is as much at fault.
Just because the cup does not say HOT, does not mean the coffee inside is cold!
Old 01-04-2003, 05:09 PM
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J_R
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

The question of liability was settled elsewhere. The question is how much?

How much insurance is enough is really the question.

JR
Old 01-04-2003, 05:37 PM
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flippypilot
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Default AMA insurance

i JUST LIKE LET ALL KNOW AMA INSURANCE WAS USELESS TO ME 2 TIMES , 1 TIME I HAD A HELICOPTER STOLEN IN MASSACHUETTES , AS PER AMA GUIDELINES I FILED A CLAIM, WERE THE WINDOW WAS BROKE OUT OF MY CAR AN THE HELI WAS TAKEN,I FILED A POLICE REPORT ANDD TO THIS DAY I HAVE NEVER BEEN REIMBURSED , IN 1993 A FELLOW MEMBER HIT MY BRAND NEW PICKUP TRUCK I OWNED FOR LESS THAN 48 HOURS , THE CIRCUMSTANCES WERE ON THAT A RECIEVER FAILURE IN A PIPER CUB THAT WENT OUT OF CONTROL AND HIT THE TRUCK RIGHT IN THE DRIVERS DOOR AND FRONT FENDER ,AMA WOULD NOT PAY ALTHOUGH IT WAS AN AMA FIELD AND ALL MEMBER WERE AMA CURRENT , THE MEMBER HAD TO PAY OUT OF HIS POCKET TO REPAIR MY VEHICLE, i HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANY ONE EVER BEING REIMBURSED FOR ANYTHING , IT ALWAYS RESORTED BACK TO HOME OWNERS OR OTHER INSURANCE , AMA IS LIKE THE US GOVERMENT THEY ARE THERE FOR PERSONEL GAIN
Old 01-04-2003, 07:20 PM
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Jim Branaum
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

Originally posted by CHassan
First off, a toddler should not be around the field un attended. I would not even consider taking my 5 year old with out another adult to supervise while I flew. This is just bad parenting if the father let the toddler wonderabout while he flew.
Now I can not comprehend losing one of my children. If it was truely someone elses fault, you bet I would try to gain as much as I could. Nothing can replace my children. However the best way to hurt most people or companies is thru the wallet.
Now if it was neglect on my part, i.e. leaving a toddler to walk about in a dangerous area, then sorry but there is no one to blame, I do not think the club or AMA should be held completely responsible. The father is as much at fault.
Just because the cup does not say HOT, does not mean the coffee inside is cold!
While *I* agree with you about the bad parenting issue and who was at fault, the civil courts did not. As someone else mentioned, the issue was/is liability and that has already been determined elsewhere. So now the question is HOW MUCH.

As for Flippypilot not getting reimbursed, AMA insurance is SECONDARY. Many years ago I was involved in a mid air while flying combat. The out of control plane hit a car. I paid and did not even bother filing with the AMA because of two reasons. First AMA does require you to file with your homeowners policy before they will take action. The second reason was because *I* worked out a solution with the car owner that was below my homeowners deductible.

In the case of the theft, your comprehensive auto coverage should have covered the loss and in the case of the auto damage the homeowners coverage should have repaired the car. If those coverages were not available to the member, that information (and PROOF) should have been made available to the AMA. However, if the Safety Code (and that INCLUDES the local club rules) was violated, all bets are off.
Old 01-04-2003, 08:06 PM
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eeb
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

a.m.a. in 1984 i cut tips of two fingers off, at home in garage,my fault for putting them into prop at 10,000 rpm, ama pd full amount of bill before i even heard back from home owners and they did not want to pay,plus you get 12 magazines a year and rules for clubs to go by making all the same.dues very cheap if put in right perspective.
Old 01-04-2003, 08:36 PM
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N1EDM-RCU
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

I suppose you could ask where else could you have insurance to fly for less than $5/month and have a magazine out of it, to boot!

Just throwing in another $.02

Bob
Old 01-05-2003, 12:11 AM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

Jim B . thanks for the response back when the heli was stolen.massachuetts auto ins does not cover contents of the vehicle just the parts or the vehicle like the radio ect...
back b when the plane hit my truck i was a renter and the guy who hit it the truck should be the party to start the claim not me thanks flippypilot
Old 01-05-2003, 12:44 AM
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Jim Branaum
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

Originally posted by flippypilot
Jim B . thanks for the response back when the heli was stolen.massachuetts auto ins does not cover contents of the vehicle just the parts or the vehicle like the radio ect...
back b when the plane hit my truck i was a renter and the guy who hit it the truck should be the party to start the claim not me thanks flippypilot
Sorry about the helicopter. It sounds like you should have gone to your HO agent and filed a claim as that policy USUALLY covers your car contents along with the contents of suitcases and briefcase. Not being current on all the various rules and regulations on various insurance coverages, I am just guessing based on what I have seen and experienced.

As for the guy hitting your truck not being able to get AMA to pay for it, the answer is really simple. I went back and reread what you said and apologize for not catching that one earlier. To avoid excessive fraudulent claims (that WERE being filed) the AMA went to a policy that does not pay for damage an AMA member does to another AMA member. If I recall correctly that is exclusive of medical coverages.

AMA will always rush to resolve medical claims as they CAN become worse rapidly. A little thought about this and it becomes evident that the AMA has stepped into the role of insurance company and is trying to avoid excessive claims that dragging out medical claims tends to lead to in other venues.

Sorry for missing that detail. Hope this clarifies the issue better for you.
Old 01-05-2003, 01:32 AM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

hey jim to clarifey all if i am sitting in a vehicle and an airplane hits it , because i am a member of ama it doesnt cover me , and this was in 1993, this doesnt sound right to me , if i have geico insurance and anothe geico insured wrecks me we are still cover and the fault drivers ins is liable. thnks joe
Old 01-05-2003, 02:07 AM
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pinball-RCU
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

The primary purpose of the AMA insurance is to protect the HOBBY, not you or me. Many of us fly on public land, and it's almost certain that in most cases, the government entity would not permit the activity if the insurance didn't exist. So, even for those of us with our own liability and medical insurance, it's still a good deal.

As to the 2 million, vs 1 million, or whatever, it's true that many severe injury cases are settled for the policy limit, since juries prefer to take money from faceless corporations rather than making a neighbor totally destitute. However, that doesn't mean it makes sense to under-insure yourself. If you don't have insurance, the wronged party will go after your assets. I believe the AMA assets are a lot more than 2 million (I could be wrong).

Take a look at http://www.kkrlaw.com/changes/safety_standards.htm .
This $6.6 million settlement was against an organization that had absolutely nothing to do with the case (they write standards for swimming pools). Last I heard, they declared bankruptcy.
Old 01-05-2003, 05:38 AM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

flippypilot

i HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANY ONE EVER BEING REIMBURSED FOR ANYTHING

Not true! Read my post above.

Regards,
Jon
Old 01-07-2003, 11:37 AM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

my truck was hit by a runaway plane a couple of years back. pilot "forgot" to turn on his transmitter! amazingly the plane flew around for at least 2 minutes, swooped through the pitt area twice! pilot......well lets say "person holding the tranny" never announced there was trouble, just froze up completely! crowd came too after the first swoop! hit my truck in the rear corner and put a nice whole and dent. this was a gentle lady with a 10 up front! sadly enough it was my plane with only 3 flights on her. of course with everyone involved being ama they would not cover it. expensive and dangerous afternoon of flying that day! moral of story: be careful who you play with!
Old 01-07-2003, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: amazing

Originally posted by TheSollyLama
It amazes me that people are deluded into actually believing they NEED 2 mil worth of coverage for a hobby, but don't carry near that for the other 95% of thier lives. Is it just gulliblility?
Does anyone out there have 2 mil worth of coverage on your car? Even though you spend a heck of alot more time in it then flying a model? Even though it weighs a couple tons and thousands die every year because of them? That you're FAR more likely to die in a car than by R/C anything? No, of course not.
Now tell me I need the AMA to make me pay for 2 mil and that I somehow NEED that just to fart around with a balsa wood model in a field.
Reality check, folks.
And hey, here's a novel idea (except that most every other group has figured it out) injury waivers for spectators. Hey, you choose to go where little wooden missiles are zipping about and you shouldn't be able to sue if one gets stuffed in your ear. Every motocross track I've ever been to made the riders sign waivers, and some even made spectators. You assume the risk for placing yourself where harm may come to you. Read the back of a hockey ticket sometime.
Course of Action:
1. limit claims to begin with by adopting waivers.
2. negotiate a sensible amount of insurance coverage for members.
That will dramatically cut the outlay for member insurance.
It makes no sense to carry a couple million in coverage as a secondary with a couple hundred thousand as a primary. Worse, since that secondary is only useful for flying model planes in specific locations. It's not bloody likely to ever be useful. But the primary, however is for your entire life and MUCH more likely to see activity.
Only problem is that waivers are of no value. If you sign one you can still sue for negligence. Which is all you can sue for anyway. They are only a bluff.
Old 01-07-2003, 07:35 PM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

As much as a lot of places would like you to believe it, you cannot sign away liablity. Even if you sign a piece of paper a provider of a service, event management, shopping mall, etc can and in a lot of cases has been held liable for injuries or issues that they failed to anticipate and/or prevent. The insurance companies are the ones who have you sign a waiver or have signs posted. Just look at Ice Hockey. They had it printed on the ticket that it was dangerous to be in the stands. People got hurt and on at least one occasion got killed. The owners and the city where held liable even though they put up warnings. Why because they didn't put up barriers or nets to stop the puck. Now they do in most venues.

Who paid for the litigation? Insurance!
Old 01-19-2003, 10:45 PM
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Default Ever filed a claim with the AMA?

I've never filed a claim, but I know people who have told me that the AMA paid for stolen models from their homes or cars.

I don't own a home. All I have is auto insurance. So for me AMA is primary insurance unless my car is somehow involved and I can claim it through that policy.

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