LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
#26
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brunswick,
GA
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
ET, I'm not whining about the price or whatever for myself. Just trying to see if there's a better way. I'd like to see the AMA attract more members and be able to please everyone. How we get there by going in the wrong direction is a mystery. You can't keep losing members and revenue while spending more and more. Selling off all that property would eliminate some ongoing costs and open up funds for investments that return cash. Realistically, that's probably not going to happen, but we still need to hold their feet to the fire about how the funds get spent. That's our responsibility. If nobody is watching, it's everybodies fault.
#27
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Is there any logical reason they put the AMA core properties in Muncie, rather than a place that has weather that doesnt suck for months? It's like putting a rowing club in New Mexico, or NRA Headquarters in San Fransico... what were they thinking?
We should raise it to $60 to buy them boys plane tickets to San Diego (claimed nations best weather), or someplace with year round flying, and move the whole enchilada there.
Is there any logical reason they put the AMA core properties in Muncie, rather than a place that has weather that doesnt suck for months? It's like putting a rowing club in New Mexico, or NRA Headquarters in San Fransico... what were they thinking?
We should raise it to $60 to buy them boys plane tickets to San Diego (claimed nations best weather), or someplace with year round flying, and move the whole enchilada there.
Bill, AMA 4720
#28
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan,
NY
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
So what your saying is to sell off Muncie. OK, now lets put that into actual perspective, instead of just a pipe dream.
So they sell the field for a ridiculous amount. Say $1M. Minus capital gain leaves you with about $850k. That comes to a savings of about $5 per member for only 1 year. WOW!!!
Not to mention you just tossed out their largest chunk of actual equity, no more emergency bank loans if needed. Plus the fact now you have to relocate the AMA into a new home. This means you have to come up with a 6-12 month lease cash. And now since your going to lease instead of investing in actual property your just throwing money out the window.
So tell me again, how is selling off Muncie going to actually save the AMA? I could see if the AMA was located in the middle of Manhattan or waterfront property in Malibu, but your talking about Muncie Indiana.
Cost savings huh????
So they sell the field for a ridiculous amount. Say $1M. Minus capital gain leaves you with about $850k. That comes to a savings of about $5 per member for only 1 year. WOW!!!
Not to mention you just tossed out their largest chunk of actual equity, no more emergency bank loans if needed. Plus the fact now you have to relocate the AMA into a new home. This means you have to come up with a 6-12 month lease cash. And now since your going to lease instead of investing in actual property your just throwing money out the window.
So tell me again, how is selling off Muncie going to actually save the AMA? I could see if the AMA was located in the middle of Manhattan or waterfront property in Malibu, but your talking about Muncie Indiana.
Cost savings huh????
#29
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brunswick,
GA
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
STL, do you have any realism in you? #1, who said sell the office building? Not a bad idea, mind you. But I think $1mil is a little undervalued, don't you? Even in "Not New York", a building that size with that much property would cost a pretty penny. #2, I said investments that have cash returns. Lowers the yearly dues, not just once. Now, you've also fired the mowers, saving another hefty sum, you're not paying property taxes, etc, either. More savings. How many employees could now be laid off because their responsibilities have been eliminated. What exactly do they do, anyway? Is the AMA overmanned? You want to argue just to make me mad? It won't work little man.
#32
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
ORIGINAL: ptulmer
ET, I'm not whining about the price or whatever for myself. Just trying to see if there's a better way. I'd like to see the AMA attract more members and be able to please everyone. How we get there by going in the wrong direction is a mystery. You can't keep losing members and revenue while spending more and more. Selling off all that property would eliminate some ongoing costs and open up funds for investments that return cash. Realistically, that's probably not going to happen, but we still need to hold their feet to the fire about how the funds get spent. That's our responsibility. If nobody is watching, it's everybodies fault.
ET, I'm not whining about the price or whatever for myself. Just trying to see if there's a better way. I'd like to see the AMA attract more members and be able to please everyone. How we get there by going in the wrong direction is a mystery. You can't keep losing members and revenue while spending more and more. Selling off all that property would eliminate some ongoing costs and open up funds for investments that return cash. Realistically, that's probably not going to happen, but we still need to hold their feet to the fire about how the funds get spent. That's our responsibility. If nobody is watching, it's everybodies fault.
I can't get past this paradox, you know?
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Anderson,
MO
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
How many employees could now be laid off because their responsibilities have been eliminated.
I would hate to see the national flying site go, you are aware you can use it, right? You are aware a lot of clubs use it for sanctioned events, right? I'm 10-12 hours away myself and have never been there, yet, but that will change this summer. One IN club has moved their annual flyin to the National site and I'm going to make the trip, looking forward to it.
If things were all that bad that AMA needed to start selling off property, the sale of such property would not rectify the situation. AMA would end up back in the same situation sooner or later but have no assets to sell. When things get that bad, the AMA is doomed, then people will have nobody to point the finger at but themselves for not supporting the AMA and the hobby. Your choice.
#36
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brunswick,
GA
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
ET, you can't get past your ego. Do you know what a discussion is?
bhole, they could always go find other jobs. Do you really want to pay people to stand around?
The AMA is declining. Any argument? OK, if the way they do business isn't changed, they will spend more than they make. When things are going great, you can spend, spend, spend and nobody notices. Well, things ain't so great at the AMA. We know that by the desperate attempts to garner more members. The excess property may be used by a few clubs. I don't care to finance their events, thank you. It's kinda like trick-down economics. Cut cost, reduce rates. The membership numbers will increase. The increase in numbers will mean more revenue. Even though it costs less to join.
bhole, they could always go find other jobs. Do you really want to pay people to stand around?
The AMA is declining. Any argument? OK, if the way they do business isn't changed, they will spend more than they make. When things are going great, you can spend, spend, spend and nobody notices. Well, things ain't so great at the AMA. We know that by the desperate attempts to garner more members. The excess property may be used by a few clubs. I don't care to finance their events, thank you. It's kinda like trick-down economics. Cut cost, reduce rates. The membership numbers will increase. The increase in numbers will mean more revenue. Even though it costs less to join.
#37
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
lots of alcohol prior to flying is not always the best way to overcome your fear of crashing. some people sure are dumb
#38
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
ORIGINAL: LANNYBOB
lots of alcohol prior to flying is not always the best way to overcome your fear of crashing. some people sure are dumb
lots of alcohol prior to flying is not always the best way to overcome your fear of crashing. some people sure are dumb
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Anderson,
MO
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
The AMA is declining. Any argument?
I don't care to finance their events, thank you.
The numbers won't increase until the AMA figures out what the parkflyer crowd and non-AMA members want. Last I checked, the loudest anti-AMA voices still don't know what they want so how is the AMA ever going to know? Trial and error, unless you have the answers already. If so, please inform Muncie, not RCU.
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Anderson,
MO
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
Do you really want to pay people to stand around?
#41
My Feedback: (162)
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
Finally, Someone else gets it
I think there's been quite a bit more than $1 million invested in muncie...
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Is there any logical reason they put the AMA core properties in Muncie, rather than a place that has weather that doesnt suck for months? It's like putting a rowing club in New Mexico, or NRA Headquarters in San Fransico... what were they thinking?
We should raise it to $60 to buy them boys plane tickets to San Diego (claimed nations best weather), or someplace with year round flying, and move the whole enchilada there.
Is there any logical reason they put the AMA core properties in Muncie, rather than a place that has weather that doesnt suck for months? It's like putting a rowing club in New Mexico, or NRA Headquarters in San Fransico... what were they thinking?
We should raise it to $60 to buy them boys plane tickets to San Diego (claimed nations best weather), or someplace with year round flying, and move the whole enchilada there.
I think there's been quite a bit more than $1 million invested in muncie...
#43
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brunswick,
GA
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
ORIGINAL: bhole74
Numbers speak for themselves, personally I think the reason for the decline is more old guys passing on without younger people taking their places.
The AMA is declining. Any argument?
I don't care to finance their events, thank you.
The numbers won't increase until the AMA figures out what the parkflyer crowd and non-AMA members want. Last I checked, the loudest anti-AMA voices still don't know what they want so how is the AMA ever going to know? Trial and error, unless you have the answers already. If so, please inform Muncie, not RCU.
#44
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan,
NY
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
It's pointless to argue with you about selling off the AMA's most important piece of equity, you'll never understand why it's the most ridiculous of all suggestions ever posted in this forum.
Ask not what your club can't do for you. Ask what your club can do for you. Does that sound about right to you??? Sounds about right to me.
Here is what the AMA does for the REST of it's members. If you only fall under the insurance category, then sorry, your loss. But I'm sure they thank you for the extra money!
Benefits of this Association
PROGRAMS
Sanctioned events - more than 2,500 annually
Assistance in getting and keeping flying sites
National Safety Advisory Program and Safety Code Standards
Annual Youth Scholarship Program
Youth Education Programs, YES Grants
Club chartering Program providing club and site assistance to nearly 2,450 local clubs
Dues structured by age groups ‑ younger and older modelers pay less
Opportunities to serve in leadership roles of Contest Director and/or Leader Member
World Championships Teams selection and financing, plus travel assistance
Support and promotion for the sport of aeromodeling for schools, service groups, and clubs
Air Show Team Program offering demonstrations of model aircraft to millions of people
Club Officer Recognition
Mall Show Programs for clubs
Historic Preservation and Research programs (Museum, Archives, and Library)
Introductory Pilot Program
Attendance at major modeling trade shows for member assistance and to provide public awareness of aeromodeling
Conduct of volunteer programs for members participating in the International Aeromodeling Center activities
Leader club recognition
Hobby shop displays as an AMA information center
Hall of Fame recognition
Experimental Aircraft Inspections for models over 55 lbs.
Turbine Waivers for jet pilots
SERVICE
Liability Coverage for the Operation of Model Aircraft, Boats, Cars, and Rockets
$2,500,000 Comprehensive General Liability Protection for model activities for members, clubs, site owners, and sponsors
$25,000 Accident/Medical Coverage for members
$10,000 Maximum Accidental Death Coverage for members
$1,000 Fire, Theft, and Vandalism Coverage for members
Primary Site Owner Insurance ‑ up to $5,000,000 each location
Published information ‑‑Financial reports, Contest Calendar, Construction Articles, Claim reports, and general news
Information how to obtain Non Profit status to retain income as a Tax Exempt organization under IRS Section 501(c)(3)
Accumulated assets ($11 million)
Safeguarding radio frequencies through liaison with Federal Communications Commission
Achievements recognized through the Awards Programs
World Record performances processed through FAI
Affiliate of National Aeronautical Association
Contest scheduling coordination to avoid conflicts
National Records recognized and recorded
Liaison maintained with major Government agencies (Corp. of Engineers, Navy, Air Force, Army, Marines, and FCC)
Film Library with rentals available to members, clubs, and general public
National Museum ‑ Frank V. Ehling National Model Museum ‑ free admission to all members
Museum Store for visitors
Museum Patron Program
Support and sponsorship of technical meetings
United States representation to the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), Lucerne, Switzerland
More than 50 full-time staff members dedicated to serving all aspects of aeromodeling interests
The National Center for Aeromodeling, the world's only full‑time model aviation facility
Lee Renaud Memorial Library ‑ more than 25,000 publications and books with research service available
Specialty member programs offered only through AMA membership ‑ Credit Cards and Eye Care Discounts
Serving aeromodeling since 1936‑ more than 60 continuous years
Convenience of using a Fax machine to send and receive information
Affiliate of National Aeronautical Association
Web page on Internet ‑ Information dissemination
Internet E‑mail ‑ to improve ease of communications
Federal land use with Department of Interior
District meetings for in-person contact
Free 800 number for member service
Administrative staff to assist with explanation of various programs
Coordination with Federal Aviation Administration to promote safe regulations for flying
Online Club Charter Renewal Kit
Online Membership Manual
Purchase model plans
AMA Product Guide – WebStore
EVENTS
National Aeromodeling Championships, world's largest model airplane contest
World Championships and other special activities hosted
Development of new outdoor promotional modeling events
PRODUCTS
Model Aviation magazine ‑ The AMA Voice of Aeromodeling News
Standardized AMA competition rules ‑ the FAI Sporting Code Competition Regulations
Modeling publications available to members at discount prices through Supply & Service Department
AMA Insider for clubs
Delta Dart Kit for introduction to aeromodeling
Hobby Shop Lists for promotional needs
Club Labels for promotional needs
Club Newsletter Labels for promotional needs
Museum newsletter Cloud 9 for patrons
Model Flier's Sporting license for sanctioned events
Advertising about the Association Services in other modeling publications
AMA Convention (formerly known as IMS Show)
Sport Aviator (online magazine) – Dedicated to helping the new model pilot
Grand Event – exposing individuals to all aspects of the hobby of modeling
There is your "pure economics" ol' timer.
I think it's pure economics. The AMA doesn't really have anything to offer to regular members 'cept insurance. If you don't need it to fly, don't join.
Here is what the AMA does for the REST of it's members. If you only fall under the insurance category, then sorry, your loss. But I'm sure they thank you for the extra money!
Benefits of this Association
PROGRAMS
Sanctioned events - more than 2,500 annually
Assistance in getting and keeping flying sites
National Safety Advisory Program and Safety Code Standards
Annual Youth Scholarship Program
Youth Education Programs, YES Grants
Club chartering Program providing club and site assistance to nearly 2,450 local clubs
Dues structured by age groups ‑ younger and older modelers pay less
Opportunities to serve in leadership roles of Contest Director and/or Leader Member
World Championships Teams selection and financing, plus travel assistance
Support and promotion for the sport of aeromodeling for schools, service groups, and clubs
Air Show Team Program offering demonstrations of model aircraft to millions of people
Club Officer Recognition
Mall Show Programs for clubs
Historic Preservation and Research programs (Museum, Archives, and Library)
Introductory Pilot Program
Attendance at major modeling trade shows for member assistance and to provide public awareness of aeromodeling
Conduct of volunteer programs for members participating in the International Aeromodeling Center activities
Leader club recognition
Hobby shop displays as an AMA information center
Hall of Fame recognition
Experimental Aircraft Inspections for models over 55 lbs.
Turbine Waivers for jet pilots
SERVICE
Liability Coverage for the Operation of Model Aircraft, Boats, Cars, and Rockets
$2,500,000 Comprehensive General Liability Protection for model activities for members, clubs, site owners, and sponsors
$25,000 Accident/Medical Coverage for members
$10,000 Maximum Accidental Death Coverage for members
$1,000 Fire, Theft, and Vandalism Coverage for members
Primary Site Owner Insurance ‑ up to $5,000,000 each location
Published information ‑‑Financial reports, Contest Calendar, Construction Articles, Claim reports, and general news
Information how to obtain Non Profit status to retain income as a Tax Exempt organization under IRS Section 501(c)(3)
Accumulated assets ($11 million)
Safeguarding radio frequencies through liaison with Federal Communications Commission
Achievements recognized through the Awards Programs
World Record performances processed through FAI
Affiliate of National Aeronautical Association
Contest scheduling coordination to avoid conflicts
National Records recognized and recorded
Liaison maintained with major Government agencies (Corp. of Engineers, Navy, Air Force, Army, Marines, and FCC)
Film Library with rentals available to members, clubs, and general public
National Museum ‑ Frank V. Ehling National Model Museum ‑ free admission to all members
Museum Store for visitors
Museum Patron Program
Support and sponsorship of technical meetings
United States representation to the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), Lucerne, Switzerland
More than 50 full-time staff members dedicated to serving all aspects of aeromodeling interests
The National Center for Aeromodeling, the world's only full‑time model aviation facility
Lee Renaud Memorial Library ‑ more than 25,000 publications and books with research service available
Specialty member programs offered only through AMA membership ‑ Credit Cards and Eye Care Discounts
Serving aeromodeling since 1936‑ more than 60 continuous years
Convenience of using a Fax machine to send and receive information
Affiliate of National Aeronautical Association
Web page on Internet ‑ Information dissemination
Internet E‑mail ‑ to improve ease of communications
Federal land use with Department of Interior
District meetings for in-person contact
Free 800 number for member service
Administrative staff to assist with explanation of various programs
Coordination with Federal Aviation Administration to promote safe regulations for flying
Online Club Charter Renewal Kit
Online Membership Manual
Purchase model plans
AMA Product Guide – WebStore
EVENTS
National Aeromodeling Championships, world's largest model airplane contest
World Championships and other special activities hosted
Development of new outdoor promotional modeling events
PRODUCTS
Model Aviation magazine ‑ The AMA Voice of Aeromodeling News
Standardized AMA competition rules ‑ the FAI Sporting Code Competition Regulations
Modeling publications available to members at discount prices through Supply & Service Department
AMA Insider for clubs
Delta Dart Kit for introduction to aeromodeling
Hobby Shop Lists for promotional needs
Club Labels for promotional needs
Club Newsletter Labels for promotional needs
Museum newsletter Cloud 9 for patrons
Model Flier's Sporting license for sanctioned events
Advertising about the Association Services in other modeling publications
AMA Convention (formerly known as IMS Show)
Sport Aviator (online magazine) – Dedicated to helping the new model pilot
Grand Event – exposing individuals to all aspects of the hobby of modeling
There is your "pure economics" ol' timer.
#45
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brunswick,
GA
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
ORIGINAL: STLPilot
It's pointless to argue with you about selling off the AMA's most important piece of equity, you'll never understand why it's the most ridiculous of all suggestions ever posted in this forum.
It's pointless to argue with you about selling off the AMA's most important piece of equity, you'll never understand why it's the most ridiculous of all suggestions ever posted in this forum.
STL, you chicken out of every argument because you don't have any answers. The least you could do is not make useless statements before you run away.
#47
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brunswick,
GA
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
BTW, that cut and paste laundry list doesn't contain anything that couldn't be done at volunteer clubs or a rental office.
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Anderson,
MO
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
[sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]BTW, that cut and paste laundry list doesn't contain anything that couldn't be done at volunteer clubs or a rental office.
[sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]
Are you going to quit you job and volunteer? I don't think you would have time after work.
"Stay at home" knd of guy, huh?
If you reread my statement you might realize I wasn't referring to you but maybe some others that lurk in this forum.
I'm glad new technology is always right the first time. Just think the problems it might cause if an R/C aircraft had a manufactured-in flaw. Whew! Glad it don't happen!
Surely your not referring to stocks! I would drop my membership and jump ship in a hurry if they traded real property for stock! I guess they could by some bonds or get a whopping 3% (if they are lucky) on some CDs. Or risk losing it all in the market.
[sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]
Are you going to quit you job and volunteer? I don't think you would have time after work.
Yeah, to the club that I'm flying at.
I'm not anti-AMA.
No trial and error. Fire people who can't justify their jobs and reduce other expenses.
State openly WHY it's ridiculous to sell property that can only be used by a few and invest the money in something that returns cash year after year.
#49
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brunswick,
GA
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LETS JUST JABBER ABOUT WHATEVER AMA TOPIC IS ON OUR MIND
Yes, bhole, you would have time. It's all-volunteer right now, you're just moving the location. No, I'm not a stay-at-home kind of guy. I meant the club I'm flying at for the day. You're pretty slack if you didn't realize that.
Please explain what you mean by this and how it's relevant to my response in quotes right above it in your previous post. It doesn't make any sense. You think the AMA does quality control for the manufacturers? Am I arguing with yet another...?
Well, I must be arguing with a complete dolt if you think stocks aren't a good investment over time. It's the BEST investment out there! Period! It's not the only thing I'm invested in, but it's the only one that's more than doubled it's value in just a couple of years.
I'm glad new technology is always right the first time. Just think the problems it might cause if an R/C aircraft had a manufactured-in flaw. Whew! Glad it don't happen!
Well, I must be arguing with a complete dolt if you think stocks aren't a good investment over time. It's the BEST investment out there! Period! It's not the only thing I'm invested in, but it's the only one that's more than doubled it's value in just a couple of years.