STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

You didn't get the email? Heck I voted for it. Give to the rich, take from the poor I always say.

Hossfly

IIRC, March 31, 2005 Medical policy only. Keeps the cost down because it matches or is close to the medical deductibles of most employer/self commercial policies.

KidEpoxy

Thanx Hoss
any idea how far down it kept premium costs from raising? Cause what I see is we had to take the raise in deductable, or pay more for insurance.... how much more? Cause I'll mail them a check for the $3-6 for a lower deductable- heck, how much are we talking if it was so far as to double the cost of insurance?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

You know what Kid I just noticed. You've had your AMA card for what, 2 months now? The insurance policy document is dated March 31st 2006, it's last revision. So the rate was never increased on you at all. So this "increase" does not effect you at all because when you signed up for the AMA to agreed to all guidelines and policies of the AMA on signup.

Hossfly

Not a clue kid, however each year AMA negotiates its insurance rates and in negotiations things have to be compromised.

Actually AMA has been very successful in negotiating the LIABILITY rates for the past several years. One of the main things that started such was finally opening the bidding to companies other than the "Royal" that was there for years because, "They're nice to work with." Yep, they were because they were getting paid some 25% more than other companies were willing to go for. [:-]

While I couldn't convince the membership to vote me in as EVP in the '02 election, somewhere I must have made some impressions as that was one of my main campaign issues. They went to allowing bidding.

Actually the liability insurance expense is below what Royal got in their last year and far below what they expected AMA to cave in to at the last minute. Check the reports in the Members Only section.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

FWIW http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1423511/tm.htm

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Ha great link, this is my fav post, he's 100% right.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Hmmm... I beg to differ on his position...If I could find any meaningful health care for twice the amount ($160 per month) I would be amazed. Sounds great but not realistic for most people.

KidEpoxy

If you can afford to fly????

Is that talking about a $7 nib engine on $8 of balsa that I glue up with less than $40 of radiogear onboard?
You have any idea how long a gallon of 20/20 lasts when running a cox049?
I only have a .40sport cause a friend gave me one when he saw I couldnt afford to fly. (gift TX,RX,Arf,46OS.... good freind & he's good folk)
I'm putting some coins aside to get a starter battery some day soon.

One has to economize when one delivers pizza for a living.
A $750 deductable is in the same class as a $10,000 deductable for me, cant afford either one.


Maybe I was unaware of the change, much like the OP of this tread was. I may have just joined, but I've been bashing AMA for a while now.... and in my opinion, the deductable hike is bash worthy.

depfife

My Feedback: (14)

Elections are the closest thing members have to being consulted about such. Unfortunately the majority don't bother to vote, and I would venture a guess that most of those who do vote do not bother to educate themselves about what the candidates stand for. I'm not pointing fingers, as for several years I was guilty myself.

abel_pranger

LCS-

Think about when he was in college................you could prolly have room and board for $80/mo, and beer budget to boot.

It doesn't matter what it costs. Providing health insurance isn't the business of an organization ostensibly promoting model aviation.

What insurance of any kind a person needs is a personal decision and personal responsibility. It requires consideration of risk, both to one's person and fiscal risk, and sober assessment of whether or not the risk is acceptable. It is more than a matter of how much insurance one can afford. Aside from any limitation of what I can afford to pay for insurance, an encounter between my fingers and a propeller would certainly hurt and would have some fiscal impact and possibly cause some measure of permanent disability, but it isn't likely to degrade my quality of life to a degree that makes messing around with most sorts of model airplane powerplants an unacceptable risk. OTOH, I have in recent months become associated with a gifted eye surgeon, and he expressed an interest in model airplanes. I have hosted him at our flying field for some buddy box flying. I'm sure he can afford any level of heath insurance available in the marketplace, well beyond what I could rationally spend on it. Yet there is no amount of insurance that could possibly cover the potential loss for him from a risk to his manual dexterity that is acceptable for mine.

Longer than I intended, sorry for that. Point is that AMA neither has a clue as to what medical coverage any member needs, nor is it providing any benefit in such coverage to members that is in any way related to AMA's mission. It's no more a 'benefit' than the unsolicited CD's that showed in people's mailboxes, and we shouldn't have to pay for it, either. That doesn't mean make it ala carte - just get out of that business, and take Fire/Theft insurance with it for much the same reasons. If one can afford the risk of losing model airplanes to crashes that are virtually inevitable, he can afford the much less probable risk of loss due to fire or theft.

Abel

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Hmmm... you can get a room and be bored for $80 now. I am sure it was some time ago too. But with only the reference to the dollar amount what good is the rest of the story?

As usual, you make a good argument but just consider that AMA might take it a few steps further and [sm=idea.gif]
offer group health care and automobile insurance at low rates for their members.

[sm=idea.gif]
Hmmm…maybe that would grow the membership.

abel_pranger

Well, if they include auto insurance as a bennie with my membership, that's different. ..... goodbye GEICO. How about HO and landlord's coverage? I'm spending a bundle on that now, and for a lot less than $2.5 mil per incident in coverage. I could tell State Farm, Allstate, and Farmers to shove it too. Get with the program AMA! I'll sign up my Golden Retrievers for AMA licenses in Open class, even though they technically qualify for the buck/year Junior deal.

Abel

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Well Abel answered the most of LCS's reply for me. The point is not the price of the insurance, but the principal. We can sit here all day and debate insurance providers, gov't stance on insurance, groups rates, blah blah blah. But the point is that it comes down to personal responsibility, not AMA's responsibility to make sure that you put your life in front of your hobbies. After all there is always free flight planes which are generally safe and twice as much fun as RC. Maybe at the very least you'll have to wear safety glasses. Also whose going to pay a modelers potential medical bill if they are hurt travelling to or from the RC field, which they are prolly more likely to be hurt then on the RC field. Whose going to pay their medical bill if they are at home benching an engine and get a prop strike or run their finger through a bandsaw, or a slice with a hobby knife.

Sorry, but if I had to vote to save $.05 a year per member and it would raise the deductible to say $1500, that's how I would vote. First and foremost to put a warning out to people who take a vocal stance for the AMA's insurance company be their primary ??health coverage?? and potentially raise the AMA group rates for taking advantage of a perk which the AMA provides as a safety net and yet ANOTHER benefit.

If you really know that you can't afford the $750 deductible and you don't have some other kind of primary health insurance and your complaining about it, your priorities are not in the right direction. Like I said, wear some [link=http://www.prosportsmedia.com/wildcatters/uploaded_images/hockey_equipment1.gif]sports equipment [/link] on the field, better yet, bring a [link=http://www.sailcharbonneau.com/images/SharkCageNick.jpg]shark cage[/link] to the field and fly and hang out inside it, and if you don't want to do that, then you've taken your own life in your own hands, not the AMA's hands or it's members hands.

On a personal note I've been paying my own insurance for a long time now. I have a great plan and I pay about $120 a month through CelticCare. It protects me on and off the field and has never let me down.

The AMA could find hundreds of revenue streams when it has a membership org of 160,000 members, heck they could sell model airplanes for starters. However I don't think you understand the costs and logistics involved in just starting up any kind of program like your sayin, it's not cheap and takes thousands of man hours i.e. money. Let's not even talk about the fact that the AMA is a NFP org and must focus on it's mission, aeromodeling, before it becomes a one stop shop type "retail" insurance provider

KidEpoxy

ok, so now I have a great quote of STL saying we should reduce benefits to reduce cost of membership. I'll go paste that in all the threads he is complainingt about us wanting to reduce costs... it will take some time... back later guys

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Your health insurance is the responsibility of the AMA. The more the AMA or it's insurance company has to pay to irresponsible people the higher the rates will go. Go post it in as many threads as you like.

I'm also for a program that reduces the cost of AMA membership to $29 for less then half of the benefits as well, the proposed e-ticket, what's the difference?

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Me thinks I went a little too far with may last post... I just got a visited by a couple of old guys in black suits driving a Ford Focus and they threatened to break my legs. They flashed a license for a government department, I think. I believe they were with AARCP or something like that.

Anyway they were accusing me of inciting some kind of conflict...Of course I did what I do naturally, just played dumb...well...maybe I was not playing but it still is a viable strategy.

KidEpoxy

irresponsible?
Just whom is being Irresponsible, the person that injured themselves?
Was he responsible enough to have insurance for that? Did he file a claim, learn the deductable, & start this thread?

Or is the Irresponsible person the one that injures someone else... while obeying the safety code.... being liability insurance and not really pertaining to the personal insurance of the OP.

Or are you saying folks without insurance that hurt themselves are the irresponsible ones... which of course wouldnt raise the cost of personal insurance cause they dont have it.

I dont know who you are talking about STL, please explain WHO and the Irresponsibility they commit.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Yes, the person that started this thread was irresponsible.

Says it under documents-insurance, not hard to find at all.

No, he posted it to make the AMA look bad and to start yet another storm because he didn't take the time to read his benefits before he signed his user agreement and blame bad policy on the AMA instead of himself. If he would have known the policy BEFORE he got hurt, would he have made his post, prolly not.

Was shown that it was there before he signed up for 2006 and even if he signed up 2005.

I guess they don't trust everyone?? Wonder why. They are not the only insurance company that needs sigs signed. Does he have health insurance?? Maybe not, guess this is why he doesn't know it.

Again it's been there quite some time and most of us already knew it, again otherwise there would be post after post complaining.

KidEpoxy

So are they Irresponsible for an accident, and should not be fined or punished?
Did your position change on punishing the guys that hurt themselves.... to now calling them irresponsible?

Just look at the details of the injury the OP had. Not a single clue as to what happened, he didnt say if he lost a aileron in flight & hit himself, or if he dropped a metal gallon of 15% on his toe... All we know is there was some kind of self injury that he thought he had insurance for.... I dont clearly see the irresponsibility yet. Unless you consider recklessly running around without your insurance memorized irresponsible, that would be a terrible thing to witness: I hope little kids didnt see the guy missunderstanding his insurance- that could scar them for life..... fortunatly, he has liability insurance from AMA for scarring kids while flying.

Just what did he do that was irresponsible, cause if he was violating the safety code he wouldnt be getting the insurance.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

What's the difference what happened or how it happened? The chances of someone intentionally flying an aircraft directly at him or any other kind of "intent" is most likely not likely, so anything else would be considered an accident, no matter who did what to whom or themselves, within or outside the safety code.

The responsibility began the moment he stepped on the RC field and assumed his own risk without knowing the outlines of the insurance, before it happened. It's just real funny that he knows about it now. Had he known there was a $750 deductible would he have still gone on the RC field?? Who knows, but either way it's his problem for not taking the time to know the guideline before he got there.

I just don't think you see the larger picture Kid or the principal. You have admit-tingly told us that you were "smart enough not to have homeowners" to have the AMA's insurance as your primary coverage. You are also now aware, no matter what, there is a $750 deductible on medical. So if you get hurt on the field, don't go looking for a lot of sympathy if you get whacked for a $750 bill, because you are the one that agreed to ALL of the user agreements when you signed up for the AMA only 2 short months ago.

Personal responsibility, find out what the true meaning is. We are done with this convo.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

And before you throw your "little kid" trump card out in the wind, little kids are parents or guardians personal responsibility. Would I like to see more kids on the field, of course. But at the same time I would like to see more parents taking the time to enjoy the hobby with them.

Personal responsibility, you have no clue of the meaning.

KidEpoxy

Thanx for clarifying your thoughts-
Folks that dont know their insurance forwards & backwards are Irresponsible.

Looking for sympathy?
I read that guys post as infomative, letting folks know about the Deductable, not begging for sympathy. Wow, he trys to let folks know something he didnt, and you dont like that. I do like that, cause I didnt know either till I read his post.


Here's one aspect
I have $0 credit card debt
$0 Mortgage, $0 car debt, I even paid my car inurance up front. I'm one of the few american living in the black rather in debt. I dont borrow for what I want, I save then get it with cash. I dont even have a lease on the place I'm living, that would be a financial obligation that can turn into owing money... there is NOBODY that says I owe them ANY money. Maybe if more americans had PizzaBoy jobs they would not owe on their house, owe on their car, owe on their insurance, owe on their gym, and of course owe on their creditcards.

Maybe a little responibility would be in order for MA- $1mil in $2mil out just dont seem right to me. But some folks are ok with it... go figure.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Informative yes, factual, no.

abel_pranger

Well, KE, sounds to me that you know responsibility better than most Americans. Good on ya.

I follow that formula, with one exception, and you might want to consider it as means of building wealth. My rule is:

"Never use credit to buy anything that is not reasonably expected to increase in value."

Buy cars for cash, sure, but as soon you possibly can, buy a house. Very few people can do that without a mortgage, yet it is among the best investments people born without the silver spoon can make. Paying rent sucks, and I know that from the supply side. A house I bought two decades ago with a mortgage obligation of about $300/ month now leases for $2300/mo. Its market value has increased by more than $600 K. Do yourself a favor, and don't take your grandfather's advice "....never a borrower be" too rigidly.

They seem to be taking on that responsibility to some degree by moving to cut costs, e.g., the deductible you don't like. I favor dropping the ADD policy altogether. It costs about $120K (2005). Wouldn't remove the AMA spending deficit by itself, but hey, a $100K here and $100K there pretty soon adds up to some real money.

Abel