$58 too much?
01-10-2003, 05:20 PM
#51
Banned
$58 too much?
Somebody, please give the gentleman above the price tag on the AMA headquarter building that doesn't appear so elaborate. Also include the operating expenses each year for this non elaborate building. ET, JR, Jim...anyone...
01-10-2003, 06:30 PM
#53
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$58 too much?
Originally posted by RCadmin
JR,
member for over 20 years...number 43178. there were a few years where I didn't renew (college or girlfriends took up more time then my flying at different times, etc..).
JR,
member for over 20 years...number 43178. there were a few years where I didn't renew (college or girlfriends took up more time then my flying at different times, etc..).
Do you mean to tell me, that after 20 years as an AMA member, that you had to ask where you get a ballot to vote a few months ago? And now... just a few months later, you want to tear down the organization and rebuild it from the ground up? I sure hope you have done a lot of in depth research in the last few months.
Oh....... the costs of the building and administrative fees are in the 2001 AMA Financial Statement. It's on the AMA web site at http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/ in the Member's Only section.
JR
01-10-2003, 08:46 PM
#54
My Feedback: (3)
$58 too much?
JR is mostly right about the costs and where to find them. There seems to be a problem in breaking out the operating costs of the SITE which DO NOT include the administrative costs for the building or office staff. For that we probably would need some 'source documents'.
I am sure that Muncie has become a sacred cow and I think we NEED the structure, although I am not sure about the surrounding environs.
Having said that I also point out that we (AMA) have already spent big bucks (well, big in MY checkbook!) making "improvements" to the land so we could better use it for OUR purposes which are fairly narrow. In other words, the value of the roads (including parking) and plumbing put in PROBABLY could not be recovered if we were to sell the land today.
However, I also think that maybe we should rotate the Nats around to 10 or 12 locations in the country and use this as one. Other than that, keep it rented out to some farmer so we can at least make a $ or 2 out of it. That is a BIG change from the aviation related black hole the place is today.
The other approach needs more work and that is getting the SIGS who have NAT operations pay for any further improvements. There seem to be a few sticking points on that front that wound up being added into the last dues increase. Possibly all the unsolved problems and open issues will be taken care of this time.
As I said previously, that is my opinion but I am open to education.
I am sure that Muncie has become a sacred cow and I think we NEED the structure, although I am not sure about the surrounding environs.
Having said that I also point out that we (AMA) have already spent big bucks (well, big in MY checkbook!) making "improvements" to the land so we could better use it for OUR purposes which are fairly narrow. In other words, the value of the roads (including parking) and plumbing put in PROBABLY could not be recovered if we were to sell the land today.
However, I also think that maybe we should rotate the Nats around to 10 or 12 locations in the country and use this as one. Other than that, keep it rented out to some farmer so we can at least make a $ or 2 out of it. That is a BIG change from the aviation related black hole the place is today.
The other approach needs more work and that is getting the SIGS who have NAT operations pay for any further improvements. There seem to be a few sticking points on that front that wound up being added into the last dues increase. Possibly all the unsolved problems and open issues will be taken care of this time.
As I said previously, that is my opinion but I am open to education.
01-10-2003, 10:28 PM
#55
$58 too much?
Dave,
C'mon now.....You are putting words in my mouth and making implications concerning my previous post. I never said that the AMA should be run from a rental storage facility....I do expect that a non-profit organization should be run in an efficient manner----There are plenty of offices that are more than adequate for the AMA's daily duties around the country that are both nice to work from AND fill the bill from a monetary standpoint. When the Muncie site was first mentioned many in the AMA wondered, "Why Muncie?" I, too, questioned the logic of the Muncie site....It is in the middle of "No where USA" and due to its' geographical location only enjoyable during warm months. I don't care if it is near me or not but don't you think that the AMA members would have been better served had the AMA site been built in a more temperate climate?
Yes, Dave---We do live in a "ME, ME, ME" society. The officers that were at the helm when the Muncie site was built called attention to each other ( ME, ME, ME) in trying to create a legacy for themselves. They did....We have a white elephant in the middle of Indiana that only 1% of the AMA population uses. Even if the site was to be sold all you would get would be a farm land price for it.
Kevin
C'mon now.....You are putting words in my mouth and making implications concerning my previous post. I never said that the AMA should be run from a rental storage facility....I do expect that a non-profit organization should be run in an efficient manner----There are plenty of offices that are more than adequate for the AMA's daily duties around the country that are both nice to work from AND fill the bill from a monetary standpoint. When the Muncie site was first mentioned many in the AMA wondered, "Why Muncie?" I, too, questioned the logic of the Muncie site....It is in the middle of "No where USA" and due to its' geographical location only enjoyable during warm months. I don't care if it is near me or not but don't you think that the AMA members would have been better served had the AMA site been built in a more temperate climate?
Yes, Dave---We do live in a "ME, ME, ME" society. The officers that were at the helm when the Muncie site was built called attention to each other ( ME, ME, ME) in trying to create a legacy for themselves. They did....We have a white elephant in the middle of Indiana that only 1% of the AMA population uses. Even if the site was to be sold all you would get would be a farm land price for it.
Kevin
No, I wasn't implying that all of the fine people of Indiana lived in the middle of "No Where". I said that the flying site was in the middle of no where. No offense meant!!!
01-10-2003, 11:03 PM
#59
$58 too much?
Dave,
To answer your question---I think that it would take a lot less to run the AMA HQ without the added expenses of the site maintenance. Your dues are paying for the maintenance of the road to the building, parking areas, hardtop flying areas, etc., etc. The Indiana winters can be quite brutal I hear....Not only on the inhabitants but on the hardtop paved surfaces as well.
Kevin
To answer your question---I think that it would take a lot less to run the AMA HQ without the added expenses of the site maintenance. Your dues are paying for the maintenance of the road to the building, parking areas, hardtop flying areas, etc., etc. The Indiana winters can be quite brutal I hear....Not only on the inhabitants but on the hardtop paved surfaces as well.
Kevin
01-10-2003, 11:04 PM
#60
Banned
$58 too much?
Originally posted by J_R
Marc,
Do you mean to tell me, that after 20 years as an AMA member, that you had to ask where you get a ballot to vote a few months ago? And now... just a few months later, you want to tear down the organization and rebuild it from the ground up? I sure hope you have done a lot of in depth research in the last few months.
Oh....... the costs of the building and administrative fees are in the 2001 AMA Financial Statement. It's on the AMA web site at http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/ in the Member's Only section.
JR
Marc,
Do you mean to tell me, that after 20 years as an AMA member, that you had to ask where you get a ballot to vote a few months ago? And now... just a few months later, you want to tear down the organization and rebuild it from the ground up? I sure hope you have done a lot of in depth research in the last few months.
Oh....... the costs of the building and administrative fees are in the 2001 AMA Financial Statement. It's on the AMA web site at http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/ in the Member's Only section.
JR
Well..I always remember getting my ballot upon renewal but that seems odd since renewals weren't annual so doesn't that mean that the AMA sends ballots out year round upon everyones renewal date?
And I will say I found that odd which is why I asked red to be sure...when in doubt ask, right? I'm not a political guy. I'm a common sense guy. Jesse Ventura ended up as governor because he just wanted a pot hole fixed in front of his house. He couldn't get it fixed so he became mayor of his town. He got caught up in so much political garbage to get anything done he became governor to fix it. He wasn't a lifetime/career politician and neither am I. I'll admit it just like he did. I am somebody who is fairly intelligent and has common sense to see that big change is needed to effect the members wants and needs. I'll never claim to be a politician and once I do shoot me, get me out of office and put somebody in who isn't.
I will say this...those who serve now on these councils regardless of the fact that I disagree with some of what they have done or plan to do also deserve credit for working for essentialy an expense budget. However if my plan ever goes into effect many of these positions will become unecessary and the ones that take time out of a person's life will be properly compensated with salary that is appropriate while at the same time reducing fees to members and increasing the services that they get in return for their dollars.
As for the cost of the Muncie sinkhole for cash...does $10,000,000+ sound correct? That is 10 million dollars. That sure would have bought alot of office space here in NJ I can tell you. Money market interest alone on that number would throw off a couple hundred grand every year which would pay for any office space needed.
01-10-2003, 11:44 PM
#61
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$58 too much?
Originally posted by RCadmin
<Snip>
As for the cost of the Muncie sinkhole for cash...does $10,000,000+ sound correct? That is 10 million dollars. That sure would have bought alot of office space here in NJ I can tell you. Money market interest alone on that number would throw off a couple hundred grand every year which would pay for any office space needed.
<Snip>
As for the cost of the Muncie sinkhole for cash...does $10,000,000+ sound correct? That is 10 million dollars. That sure would have bought alot of office space here in NJ I can tell you. Money market interest alone on that number would throw off a couple hundred grand every year which would pay for any office space needed.
01-11-2003, 12:51 AM
#63
Banned
$58 too much?
JR - can you explain this "Note E" to me...looks like more than 1 million...I'm not an accountant so help me to understand what these figures mean? About 9 million for the Land & Improvements, Buildings and headquarters...where does the 1.1 million come into play?
01-11-2003, 03:14 AM
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$58 too much?
Originally posted by RCadmin
JR - can you explain this "Note E" to me...looks like more than 1 million...I'm not an accountant so help me to understand what these figures mean? About 9 million for the Land & Improvements, Buildings and headquarters...where does the 1.1 million come into play?
JR - can you explain this "Note E" to me...looks like more than 1 million...I'm not an accountant so help me to understand what these figures mean? About 9 million for the Land & Improvements, Buildings and headquarters...where does the 1.1 million come into play?
On this one, I am going to back off. I had to look at my notes. Here is the deal. The numbers include the old HQ building, the New HQ building, the Old temp Museum and the coversion of the old HQ to a Museum. all being done in the two year period and co-mingled. Throw in some depreciation and I know how I got my number. The new HQ was not in existence in 2000. Your welcome to use whatever number you please.
Use some caution with the property numbers. Land is being bought and sold pretty consistenly in an effort to protect the NFS from potential complaints.
Now, before you decide to sell everything please see page 9, Note J and read it very carefully.
JR
01-11-2003, 03:31 AM
#65
Banned
$58 too much?
I see...all my concern is was what is this organization spending it's money on in terms of it's building, land and so on. It seems there are some HEAVY dollars being spent in these area. Is this cash outlay necessary to have a facility that far exceeds what is necessary to operate out of as well as what only a handful of AMA members will ever step foot on?
Ok...do those numbers mean $21.8 million spent over 2 years on this stuff? Also I see note J says liability at 4.2 million secured by assets...I'd sell it all off and pay off this liability with the proceeds...what it the problem with doing that I ask?
Ok...do those numbers mean $21.8 million spent over 2 years on this stuff? Also I see note J says liability at 4.2 million secured by assets...I'd sell it all off and pay off this liability with the proceeds...what it the problem with doing that I ask?
01-11-2003, 04:13 AM
#66
$58 too much?
In my eyes an expense is an expense!!! It doesn't matter if this or that was done to transfer whatever to the AMA HQ/National flying site. All I look at is the bottom line concerning the total expenses. It was VERY expensive to move to and build Muncie!!!
Kevin
Kevin
