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How To Make AMA Perfect

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How To Make AMA Perfect

Old 11-11-2006, 10:34 PM
  #26  
KidEpoxy
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

Maybe what we need is a Poll thread like

Should STL be banned from AMA Forum, Yes/No

and see what the RCU readers/posters think..... Just to get a feel for how valuable his input is viewed.
Old 11-11-2006, 10:42 PM
  #27  
combatpigg
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

Unless actual death threats or direct personal attacks are launched by a poster, I don't think anyone should be banned for flamboyance. No matter how ridiculous, far fetched, assinine, etc. a guys' opinion might seem to the majority, let's not get fascist about who has a right to spew forth here and who doesn't. Besides, the methane that this forum generates helps to pay the bills at RCU.
Old 11-11-2006, 10:45 PM
  #28  
nullibiquitous
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

Uh oh, one of my few posts on RCU. Have not been a member long and have been in R/c for only a few months, though its something i yearned to do as a child. Ill co-sign some of STL's stuff only to say i agree with some of his post. From what i have been reading here and hearing at the field in my infancy, many people are not open to change. Most of the guys at the field see 3D or helis and usually have something negative to say..usually something along the lines of "all that crap is unecessary". I have to say that, if the ama's employess are comprised of people with the same "this is the way its always been done for XX years, why change?" attitude then whose to blame? From what i gather in his post STL is only saying you have to change something at some point. Take blue jeans for example and compare a pair from 1900 to a pair from 2000. They had to change in some way to maintain the interest of the general public. Jeans have been done in so many different ways now they have one for every individual. Now i know you all are smart enough to realize this and i also acknowledge that model aircraft are not a product of the AMA from what i know. But the bottom line is that if the AMA wants to stay in business, they have to do all they can to keep people interested in the hobby. No matter their attitudes or how many other hobbies they may have, if too many lose interest for whatever reason the AMA loses.

Now I have not been a member of the AMA long enough to really have any gripes, but to the origional poster what are some things you think they can improve on? I think most people are too extreme on this forum. You have your belly-achers with the 'the ama sucks' attitudes. And then you have your old school conformists with the 'be happy with what you got, nothing needs to change. People just dont like flying anymore' positions. The truth is always in the middle people. The belly-acher, its fine to acknowledge that there is room for improvement. Just dont let that prevent you from being satisfied with the what you do have. To the conformist, acknowledge that there is room for improvement. And everyone acknowledge that this forum is nothing more than a "vent"forum, no real problem solving occurs on any online forum based around any subject. I have to say though, i love to debate myself.
Old 11-11-2006, 11:08 PM
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

Nulli-
With the exception of the Agreeing with STL part,
the rest of your post makes a lot of sense.
Old 11-11-2006, 11:22 PM
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

The whole basis of this AMA forum, the way it turns out, is that there is a perceived problem with the dwindling membership. At what point does panic start to set in? When they have to jack up the membership to fee to $60? [X(] Maybe when a flying field can only be found out in the sticks, because of being squeezed out by soaring land values? If you were to insert a bunch of electric 3D lovin' guys into the leadership, then how would that change our hobby, our situation? Would their attitudes trickle down to the guys in our hobby who don't like this or that due to their personal tastes? Would a changing of the leadership be enough to get the sailboarders, hunters, fishermen, private aviators, joggers, mountain bikers, surfers, couch potatoes* [*sub set, video gamers, netaholics and TV blobs], bar flies, 7 day a week entreprenuers, skiers, greasers* [*subset, street rodders, drag racers, road racers], stamp collectors, etc., to drop what they're doing with their limited free time and money so they can immerse themselves in RC flying? I doubt it. This sport has a way of selling itself, and there are more ways to get involved with RC planes nowadays without the help of the AMA than ever before, just a couple reasons/examples why the AMA is where it is.
Old 11-12-2006, 01:46 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Maybe what we need is a Poll thread like

Should STL be banned from AMA Forum, Yes/No

and see what the RCU readers/posters think..... Just to get a feel for how valuable his input is viewed.

OTOH, would you consider this point? Your favorite clock / watch is broken. It no longer provides you with the correct time of day, all day. Yet it still remains correct two times each day.

No matter how many times one can P/O another, just on occasion, albeit very infrequently, that one really bleating so irritatingly can at some time be very correct in some specifics. History has definitely proved that. So many that foretold troubles have been denied as hopeless dummies. Just think of Gen. Billy Mitchell! [:@]

So while STL can be extremely irritating, so very wrong and a hundred other errors, he does make a point now and then. AMA has had some very indefinite leadership through a number of years. All the problems are not just the liberal culture of the times. AMA's internal affairs have not been well structured. EC rules are ignored by both the EC rule-makers and the staff. A steady supply of that term "good ol' boy infestation" has definitely been allowed to run rampant, especially for the last 8 or so years.

It's like when I see that old curmudgeon that watches me shave each day. Da_n, that old coot is old and ugly! [X(] Yet, that is what it is and it ain't gona' get better, especially if I don't do anything about the ugly. The old will continue --I hope!![:-]

IMO, there are a lot of warnings that bear research and inspection before I throw it out. You know like when you do a very good Pre-Flight Check, big or small airplane, that checked item can only say it was working when you checked it, not the next time you shove the throttle forward. Yet, when something bad does show up with just a slight display, that butt you save with further checking just may be your own. [8D]

As one that is definitely no fan of any sort of censorship, my vote is that anyone and all can stay.
Old 11-12-2006, 04:40 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

I'm outta here, see ya.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Old 11-12-2006, 08:16 AM
  #33  
STLPilot
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

According to the views you hold so dear, shooting paintballs was/is or has been detrimental to the hobby yet after many such events over the years the hobby is growing so much so that factories are pumping planes out by the boatload?!
Funny but I wasn't the one who originally said that shooting paintballs at RC planes was detrimental, it was CM from the AMA, I just agree with him since he "thought" that I would agree with him and he was right.

But what the heck are you even talking about here anyway? In one hand I'm telling you that more planes are shipping to USA and they are. What does paintballing have to do with it or were we just trying another way to get paintball into this discussion. Not that I have a problem with it ... I think that topic is really important right now and not just for the AMA but for all segments of RC. Just explain what your talking about a little better.
Old 11-12-2006, 09:38 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

I'm also fairly new here (6 months or so of flying) and I'll hafta agree with nullibiscuits. Some of the older guys are content at our field with the status quo. I'm 56, but would like to see some new members encouraged to join our group. Change usually ends up good for all concerned, no matter how much the conformists gripe about it.

As far as the AMA is concerned, I just pay the $58 and forget about it. Hell, it costs that much anymore just for a tank of gas in the car, and you don't get free gasoline magazines all year either. LOL

Ronnie-The Toolman
Old 11-12-2006, 10:09 AM
  #35  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect


ORIGINAL: STLPilot


Just explain what your talking about a little better.
Alright, I'll try again. I'll type real slow...ON second thought why waste more time...it is blatantly obvious you can not understand anything...not even your own point.

Just one question. Do you supply an info sheet with each ARF you sell explaining how purchaser should not; tail touch, fly higher than 400’, shoot paintballs at them, fly in any direction other than a pattern conducive to wind direction, over power, and not to fly until AMA certified…?

It is your products… take a stand big boy and refuse to sell them until purchasers sign an agreement/disclosure form and prove financial responsibility to your satisfaction.

Exercise all the control at your disposal to see how long your products will be accepted and report back.

Then maybe...probably not...you’ll have some idea why the hobby grows while your product sales drop.
Old 11-12-2006, 10:33 AM
  #36  
KidEpoxy
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

Hey Toolman-

Who told you the magazine was free?
read Nov MA 06 pg 183 gray text, then report your findings on the matter

"As far as the AMA is concerned, I just pay the $58 and forget about it."
You must be like the masses of folks that were told they had to have AMA to fly at the club.
This is just a guess on my part, but I've got a good feeling that I'm right.

Not that there is really anything wrong with that, but some folks say you are not pulling your share if you dont get involved... voting, promoting, etc. I cant fault a guy for not voting if the ballot he gets only has 1 name on it. And I wont blame a guy if he only wants to fly rather thane be a crusader (lapdog) for the AMA dogma to the world.

If you want to fly rather than campaign, go for it, have fun... its a hobby after all.
If you want to try to fix some flaws or things that could be done better, ok, shine light on it.
If you want to say everything is fine, expect the flaws to be shown to you.

Imagine this:
IF just 10% of the Wallyworld ToyRC PF guys & E-PF rogues & South40 flyers joined ama...
and voted in AMA elections
kiss the good ole boy system goodbye.... welcome to the New Order eAMA
couldnt they, if holding every elected office, cram dismissals/firings/job eliminations down the pike? Cancel any non-ePF pet projects, revoke non-Efriendly events, sanction only Eparties etc in some PF crazy L33tDuD fest. Could some 200k new E3D/PF ama voters just take what the Good Ole Boys hold dear & flush it down the can?

Does it have to be 200k?
Not if we keep sending out ballots with just one name or writein... cause just how many WriteIns would it take to get a left field ePF guy (paid for a L#) elected against the 1 name ballot (with stamp required) guy. Anybody want to hazzard a guess at the voter turnout for the 1name ballots?


--edit: Cursed Quick reply, replied to wrong guy again
Old 11-12-2006, 10:44 AM
  #37  
STLPilot
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

This is the second paragraph in the included instruction manual in all products I sell. "Flying in a safe manner" sums up potentially tens of thousands of dumb things that the user could do with the airplane. But all of that is just common sense. I will not discriminate against anyone who wants to buy my products, but I do have the ability to not sell products to people or vendors who use the models outside of their design, like any manufacturer will do. It's called a use policy, standard practice. Neither myself or the AMA are the rulemakers, but we can voice our opinions when someone does something stupid, like CM did. Whether or not the AMA approves or disapproves of shooting paintballs at airplanes, you at least know how one person at the AMA feels about it. He's the same guy that not only is a voice at the AMA but a face too. I see him at every event AMA has a booth, he's always there, WRAM, Toledo, Oshkosh. Someone at the AMA thought it was a good idea to put his face out to the general public and for a good reason.

A QUICK WORD ABOUT SAFETY AND RADIO CONTROL FLYING MODELS
With radio control aircraft, like any hobby or sport, there are certain risks. The operator of all TMPro USA models is responsible for these risks. With this in mind, you will want to be certain that you build your model carefully and correctly. If you are not an experienced flier, have your work checked and ask for help in learning to fly safely. This model aircraft is not a toy and must be operated and flown in a safe manner at all times. Always perform a pre-flight check of the model including all control surfaces, proper function of the radio gear, structure, radio range, and any other area relating to the safe operation of this aircraft.

Models are not insurable but operators are. You can obtain coverage through membership in the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA). For an AMA information package call 1-800-435-9262, ext. 292 or visit the AMA website at "http://www.modelaircraft.org/".

Also included with each and every purchase of our products is a bookmark card provided by the AMA which is attached right to the invoice so they cannot miss it.
Old 11-12-2006, 02:28 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

I second a vote to set up a poll for the
ban of STLpilot from the AMA forum, due to
all the agravation he creates, which I think
is purposely. Cause he doesnt like the AMA.

His products are a JOKE, Let start a forum
to discuss what a JOKE his products are!
Old 11-12-2006, 03:04 PM
  #39  
STLPilot
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

Cause he doesnt like the AMA
I don't like the AMA? Are you out of your mind? The only part of the AMA I don't like is the current EC less DM. Other then that I support the AMA to it's fullest.

Say what you want about my products, they will sell with or without your opinion. But there are several forums already created that discuss my products and others, please speak your mind, but only if your an owner of said product otherwise I'll have to setup a poll to ban you for talking about a product that you don't own.
Old 11-12-2006, 04:23 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

I've always felt that AMA has been good for our hobby. I'm not an AMA expert, so I don't know all the problems. Compared to what I spend on the hobby, the membership fee is chump change, plus a nice magazine, and my club requires it. So, I hope for the best.

I have lost any respect I might have had for STL after seeing some of his posts selectively deleted in the "ama rule" thread. As far as I'm concerned, that threw any integrity he may have hoped to have in the trash heap. I also find the contradiction amusing where the Hobby Quest site says that hobbyist should always build from scratch and the TMPRo site sells nothing but ARF's and RTF's and no building supplies. That just strikes me funny. STL reminds me of someone poking a stick into a bee hive trying to stir up the natural flow of activity. If nothing else, it's entertaining.
Old 11-12-2006, 07:26 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

Emphasis added

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

Cause he doesnt like the AMA
I don't like the AMA? Are you out of your mind? The only part of the AMA I don't like is the current EC less DM. Other then that I support the AMA to it's fullest.

Say what you want about my products, they will sell with or without your opinion. But there are several forums already created that discuss my products and others, please speak your mind, but only if your an owner of said product otherwise I'll have to setup a poll to ban you for talking about a product that you don't own.
Yet, YOU TALK about AMA in many fashions, and you are not a member so you don't own any part of AMA. Isn't that a bit hypocritical, Dion?
Old 11-12-2006, 07:41 PM
  #42  
STLPilot
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

Yet, YOU TALK about AMA in many fashions, and you are not a member so you don't own any part of AMA. Isn't that a bit hypocritical, Dion?
The first amendment grants me the right to talk about anything I want to talk about. I may talk about the AMA, but I don't talk for the AMA. When I talk FOR the AMA, then you can call me a hypocrite. But once again THIS IS NOT THE AMA's forum, this is a forum dedicated to RC enthusiasts and I am a RC and aviation enthusisats. Perhaps one of the many reasons I did not join this year was due to the animosity the AMA's own members holds towards their own organization.

You so dearly want this to be the AMA's official website, but it's not. Call the AMA and ask them to make you one.
Old 11-12-2006, 07:51 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

Because I belong to the AMA so I can fly in and CD sanctioned contests, have nationwide competition rules, record keeping, and the like, I regard the insurance and the magazine as freebies. The insurance and the magazine are useful and appreciated but I don't regard either as a core benefit. Actually, because the insurance helps get and keep flying sites, it is a core benefit, I suppose. Shouldn't be too dogmatic on that one.
Old 11-12-2006, 10:04 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect


ORIGINAL: STLPilot

Perhaps one of the many reasons I did not join this year was due to the animosity the AMA's own members holds towards their own organization.

That doesn't make any sense at all. Are you female?

It seems if the animosity is as great as you seem to suggest, you would join to offset that imbalance. You are making me dizzy again. Please stop.
Old 11-12-2006, 10:59 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

nullibiquitous,
Please do not take anything you read here seriusly. You will find people here post provocations fishing for reaction. Yes, there is some validity to some statements but we are all big boys and can make an educated decision based on more information/disinformation than what we read here.

OP, Your views are shared[sm=thumbs_up.gif] I beleive a lot of people want the dollar menu version of life, heck I do sometimes as well. But fun like R/C aeromodeling is worth the price($).
Old 11-12-2006, 11:23 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

Well STL I am not sure how this thread turned into the beat up STL thread when it started as an obvious poke at the unrealistic expectations of some AMA members. While I disagree with your stance on the whole paintball thing and truely believe you failed to substantiate your position. I do not believe you deserve the treatment you are receiving here now. You are intitled to your opinions and you may voice them here. Others chose to read them or not...
Old 11-12-2006, 11:27 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

The 20th century will go down in history as the century when tens of thousands of soccer fields and baseball diamonds and basketball courts and parks were built for the masses. The land grab came and went and the AMA did not fight for its share. This needs to be corrected. ITs time that RC modelers got their fair share of the land. This should be the AMA's primary objective. No land = no flying. Its not enough that the AMA helps us buy a group insurance policy. In fact thats pretty weak. We need land. We need it now before its all gone. We need it before we are all out in the sticks. Who drives 45 minutes out of town to play basketball ? Why are we second class citizens ? Why is this accepted ? We pay taxes. We are citizens. We deserve the same consideration as other sports. ITs now or never. Wake up and smell the coffee, AMA. Rocognize the issue. Demand reparation. THis is the issue that will determine if this hobby continues into the 21st century or fades away. Land !
Old 11-12-2006, 11:35 PM
  #48  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

PilotF
what is the point of getting new fields if Muncie is watching the existing fields get shut down by Urban Sprawl of folks moving out to the sticks, and demanding the clubs in the sticks stop flying planes.
Old 11-14-2006, 10:54 AM
  #49  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect


ORIGINAL: PilotFighter

The 20th century will go down in history as the century when tens of thousands of soccer fields and baseball diamonds and basketball courts and parks were built for the masses. The land grab came and went and the AMA did not fight for its share. This needs to be corrected. ITs time that RC modelers got their fair share of the land. This should be the AMA's primary objective. No land = no flying. Its not enough that the AMA helps us buy a group insurance policy. In fact thats pretty weak. We need land. We need it now before its all gone. We need it before we are all out in the sticks. Who drives 45 minutes out of town to play basketball ? Why are we second class citizens ? Why is this accepted ? We pay taxes. We are citizens. We deserve the same consideration as other sports. ITs now or never. Wake up and smell the coffee, AMA. Rocognize the issue. Demand reparation. THis is the issue that will determine if this hobby continues into the 21st century or fades away. Land !

You got some great points. I also feel the AMA isn't focused enough on working with municipalities and acquiring urban flying sites or educating clubs on the benefits of buying their own flying sites.

Of course, the problem is not so much with the AMA as much as it is the membership or enthusiast in general. Just take a look at the typical club, club member, non-club AMA member or most non-AMA enthusiasts. Most do not buy a place to fly but would rather fly on the cheap and lease or beg a place to fly. Every time it is suggested that a club purchase their flying field, eyes just glaze over and 101 reasons are made as to why not. It seems to me that flying sites where each member has a real share issued apportioned to year of membership dues paid would inspire some real involvement and insure future involvement. As it stands now, most often, a place to fly is just that… a place to fly with no real connection to the modeler. I think fully transferable shares with one vote per share would be the ticket to instill the commitment needed and provide the mechanism to insure the club is ran in accordance to the stockholders desires and give the club the means to go forward in the future. AMA could help educate clubs on ways to achieve this goal IMO.
Old 11-14-2006, 11:33 AM
  #50  
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Default RE: How To Make AMA Perfect

LCS
well, that would alieviate some of th pain from getting your club in the sticks shut down.
Just buy that acreage in the sticks on the cheap, then 15-20 years later when urbanites move next door and shut it down, the land went from $3k an acre to $50k a lot

a couple years ago in Cal, they were saying a fix in Prop13 Tax rules would put folks out on the street. People that bought their homes 20 or 30 years ago cant afford to pay the new value taxes on their homes, and would lose their home to taxes.... what they failed to mention is the house they bought for $60-$80k 20 years ago has massive tax because it is now a $600-900k house.... and I dont feel bad for 'homeless evictees' with $800k cash from the tax induced sale of their $75k home

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