KidEpoxy

I got roasted over MA in a recent thread,
so I want to get a gist on what people here think about the MA Freeness/cost

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

KE, who [with half a brain stem] would think that it's free? If you don't send in your check, they stop sending magazines. I've tested this theory more than just a couple of times. No money, no magazine.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

And this coming from a proud member of the AMA. What a club ... I can't wait to sign up again next year.

KidEpoxy

CP-
I had to retype the Yes response twice as I was making the choices.
Notice I made sure to have each be a Feeling rather than declaing some fact, and I made sure to make the Freebie dependant on membership.

Too may polls get bogged down in sematics fights, so lets just make it clear from the get go- the answers are how one feels it is. Obviously, there can be factual information that makes one feel one way or another.... like things on webpages or in print.

If someone says they feel it is or isnt, then they are telling the truth- they actually do feel that way.... unless they are lieing, in which case, shame on them[:'(]



STL- what the heck are you talking about? Who, CP or me?
wait, Nevermind, I dont want to know.... just more STL ramblings... where is that RedHand when you need it



If nobody quotes STL my Block will work much better, just fyi. Lets try a STL Quoteless thread

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

The funny thing is kid that the AMA takes nothing from you, you give to them, it's not a hidden conspiracy or agenda.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

KE, when I first saw the poll, I hadn't had that first cup of coffee yet, so I thought the poll was a test [of my brain stem function after last nights' activities]. Now I can see the gist [jist?] of your question. As a side note, don't you think this forum would be pretty dull if there wasn't a certain amount of friction? Methane production? I just wish that those who have an axe to grind could produce SPECIFIC examples of how they could effect positive change. Hoss is one of the few who can not only state his case but also include plausable examples about how he would execute his ideas. Without being able to show mechanical, or logistical examples about how your gripe could be remedied, all we have from that poster is more rhetoric, methane, whatever you want to call it.

Like I've stated before, unless you have some kind of special [self serving?] interest that the AMA isn't gonna support or help you with, or maybe some kind of burocratic, procedural problem with their system....there really isn't a whole lot to talk about here. My enjoyment of the hobby is impervious to the AMA. If you think that your enjoyment of the hobby is DEPENDENT on the AMA, then you have a problem. KE, I'm not speaking at you about this, just rhetorically, to any and all onlookers

[almost editted for spelling of buero....beuro.....beerocrat....forget it]

Hossfly

I suppose I screwed up "Poll Response 101" since I answered "Other NO" but only "Other Yes" indicates a response. Even cleared the cookies and tried again after signing in again, but still no indication of an "Other No"


Therefore there is supposed to be at least ONE "Other NO" in the count.

Specify: Last year AMA LOST 1.2 MILLION Yankee dollars on the magazine operation. Documented in the Audit Report.
That LOSS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE STAFF OF 10 PERSONS ACCOUNTED FOR UNDER EMPLOYEE EXPENSE UNDER AMA PROPER. [:-]

There are 11 employees but one is paid via commissions on advertising sales.

Now using the round figure of at least $400,000 of employee expense for 10 persons, that loss is actually 1.6 million $$$$
(that is far above the insurance expense so often touted as the big cost to AMA.)

Using round figures of 150,000 magazines distributed: $1,600,000 divided by 150,000 equals (old math) $10.67 cost per magazine subscription. More than the insurance expense per member. [X(]

The magazine is NOT free. Many resist the truth, when it does not support their illusions.

In addition, the magazine costs the AMA member far more than mere $$$ in hand. AMA operations are not supported by the other magazines. This costs us -- the active declining members -- in having to pay the bills ourselves, loss of support in acquiring facilities as well as new members, and much favorable support from the outside media and local governmental agencies.

Gentlemen, it is time for new LEADERSHIP at the helm, one not bogged down in whatever fashion of business is the order of the day and pretty slogans, backed up by circle-walking market types, but one that has no problem with Admiral David G. Farragut's methods, "Damn the Torpedoes, Full speed ahead." Only one definitely oriented to winning the battle can fly AMA out of is current inverted flat spin.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Hoss what percentage of the AMA would you say either joins or stays in the AMA just for the magazine? Also how much money does the AMA rag actually save the AMA by not having to spend money to send newsletters whether it's required or not. Every organization I belong too has some kind of newsletter or magazine that they send out to their members?

There are many numbers and statistics you can't see in black and white, you just see bottom line numbers but not the whole picture. I agree with you that the AMA needs new leadership, but not at the expense of the AMA magazine, that is one thing that actually holds this organization together. I would say if the AMA was more profitable overall then your views of the AMA magazine would be much different. More profit comes in the form of more members, not ripping the backbone out of the AMA, which part of that backbone is the AMA magazine. It's a legacy as are many membership based magazines. I think your just looking for something to pick on because you only see the bottom dollar, but not the bottom picture. And before you calling me this or that ... these are just my opinions.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Like I've asked before, where are all of these people with extra money to burn on model planes instead of what they are currently burning their fun money on going to come from? Not to mention the extra free time that has to come from somewhere. Who cares what size the membership is? What difference does it make? The AMA costs me what, 15 cents a day? If the membership count was to be cut in half tomorrow, what do you think my dues would be then? $120? The organization will shrink its' costs to whatever it needs, to remain afloat.

There will always be a representive number of model plane enthusiasts to keep the AMA going and no amount of time and effort will have a significant effect on membership numbers. There aren't droves of people waiting for some kind of MODEL PLANE MESSIAH to come sweep them away from their boring, irrelevent existence and show them how to REALLY have fun.

If the AMA were to get into active promoting and recruiting of members, then just think about all the possibilities for pork barrelling and misappropriation of funds then! No thankyou.

Mode One

Of course it is not free. It's paid for with your dues, Whether this is $18.00, I couldn't tell you and I really don't care.

(From one of the mindless minions [Drones] of the AMA.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I guess I see MA as part of a package deal. Sort of like I see vegetable soup...don't care for carrots that much but oh well...It is… what it is…and sometimes there are a few pieces left in the bottom of the bowl when I am done. Some brands have more and other brands have less carrots...I pick the brand I like best and just live with the damn carrots.

Ken Erickson

After reading your choices, I picked that I feel that it is free, with my membership.

I would pay what I pay, even if I just got a "Newsletter". However, I like the magazine.

So, there you are.

Ken Erickson, AMA 19352

KingCrash

I also feel the magazine is "free" with a paid membership. I didn't join AMA because of the magazine and wouldn't stop being a member if there was no magazine. It's there as a nice perk, kinda like free coffee in a waiting room.

Greg S
AMA 871838

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Other No.

TANSTAAFL

KidEpoxy

but the waiting room doesnt have a sign saying

$18 of your Car Repair Bill is for Waiting Room Satalite TV, Magazines, Couch, & Coffe
Please help youreself.

is that just part of getting a break job?
wouldnt the Mechanics Required waiting room be just a few folding chairs and the fee $.50
or stand around outside for free, your option

If the Waiting room didnt have that sign, then sure, we'd think of it as free coffe
But when you tell folks they are being Charged $18 for some thing or service...... free?

I have that problem with where I work:
Mandatory Gratuity, the Non-Optional Tip applied to every order

Nerevar

.

KingCrash

Yes, it is part of the brake job, as is part of the electric bill for the shop, the property lease, the other supplies, etc. The difference here as I see it is that like most clubs, the AMA is telling you, the member, how much this costs as opposed to your $89 per axle pad slap (or any other business) where the operating overhead is not broken out, but most certainly part of the cost.

Greg S
<edit>can't spell today</edit>

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

You know Kid all men in America have the choice to do with their life as they please. They have the choice to deliver pizzas or go to college and be a boss or owner of a pizza shop. YOU are the one that chose to be a pizza delivery guy so the decision for the customer to tip you, comes from you and you alone. Nobody forced you into your job that EVERYONE knows comes with tip or without tip, there is no hidden agenda. You wanted to choose a job where you have to depend on other people to tip you, so you got exactly what you asked for. You created that problem you speak of, not the customers

This is no different then when YOU signed an agreement with the AMA to get the whole package. Nobody forced it on you, but you constantly blame the AMA on doing things to you and for TAKING things from you when the AMA did not take a single thing from you, you volunteered your time and money to sign up for the AMA for the services they provide to you.

Also the 18$ is the COST for the AMA magazine, not the MSRP. As a NFP the AMA is obligated to show their members their financials. But you are looking at the WHOLESALE rate of the magazine that it costs to produce, not what it MSRP's for. Again, you just don't get it and I don't think you ever will. The AMA did not take a nickel from you.

decay

STLpilot , Why are you such a pest on the AMA forum?
If you dont like the AMA fine. Let us discuss in peace
Without your biased views. Try the boat forums why dont you??
Whens the last time you saw a issue of MA, I really dont care.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

So far this year I had about 1600 copies donated for kids.

If you don't like what I have to say, there is a block feature, I suggest you give it a try. In fact I think I'll pick up my posting in this PUBLIC forum.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

95% of STL's last 100 posts are to the AMA forum. Pure BS from a non-member.

rcmiket

Since the MA cannot support itself with the revenue from selling advertising it needs a part of all our dues to survive. So it ain't free.

KidEpoxy

$18 for MA is MA propaganda

Check Nov06 pg 183, lower gray text.
It says each..... oh, you can read it and make up your own minds, then comence discussin



If I block STL, and LCS blocks STL, and Decay King & Ramon block STL....
the thread would move along nicely, wouldnt it.

LuftwaffeOberst

Hey, I kind of look at it this way, it's a free Magazine as long as I'm a member. I feel that I'm getting part of my money back for my dues other than just being able to fly at Clubs or Events. I look at it as a win situation all the way around. JMO


Peter Dowling aka Luftwaffe Oberst
AMA District II # 865404
Aero Modelers Club
Pulaski, NY

F2G-1

My Feedback: (13)

Free or not, they need to get in in the black. It needs to at least break even. In my business, if a facet of our opperation is not performing well, or even worse, loosing $, we cut it out like the cancer it is. I support AMA and read the mag, but it needs to be run like a business, in all aspecs. I am weary of the financials, they can be manipulated (presented in a particular way) by a good cpa, all within the boundaries of the law, in order not to get eaten alive by taxes. I'm not talking about a 1 + 1 = whatever you want it to be situation, and i'm aware they probably dont have to worry about uncle sam, but the big picture is hardest to digest.

If the kids dont break even on the bake sale, why have one?

PS - Nothing in life is free.

Ted