H5487

I’m renewing my AMA membership for the first time and noticed that a one year renewal is $43.50 whereas a two year renewal is $98.50.

Did someone at the AMA flunk math or are they trying to discourage two year renewals?

model.flyer

Let’s look into a crystal ball and see if we can divine what has transpired.

You joined the AMA for the fist time during the second quarter of 2006?
You paid $58 for the membership?
Since you joined in the second quarter, you were billed 75% ($43.75) of a full membership ($58) for the full year of 2007?
Since you would receive a small $3 discount for joining for 2008 a year early, you were offered the second full year for $55 instead of $58 for a total of $98.50?

If this is correct, I certainly hope not everything is a short as your memory that you paid the full $58 a few months ago.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Great answer I'm sure he appreciated it. I think he was looking for help not an insult.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

In all fairness, if you want to look for insults, check the thread topic. I don't think ModelFlyer's response could be unexpected, nor do I find it particularly insulting. Results may vary.

Cheers,
Dave Olson

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Model.Flyer is and always will be yet another punk who thinks he's above the rest. Maybe he can see that in his crystal ball.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

91%

Silent-AV8R

While perhaps a bit snippy, his post was accurate and precisely explained how the costing was calculated.

But then again, the thread title was a little snippy as well.

Momma always said that Snippy is as Snippy does..................

H5487

While I will admit that my subject line was a bit flippant (I thought it sounded humorous) my posting was serious because I didn't understand why the two year renewal was more than twice the one year renewal. I appreciated Model.flyer's explanation until he felt a need to close with an insult. Why was that necessary?

But I have to tell you that one person PMed me and warned me that many of the guys who hang out in the AMA section of RCU can be brash, crude, and just downright mean. He said that the pro-AMAers can often be quite militant in their support of the AMA. If these individuals are typical of the organization's supporters, I don't see myself being a member much longer.

Mode One

You've already chosen sides, then? This is too bad! I guess I don't understand why defending something which our opinion of is; that it is a good thing, should chase people away. Does this mean that the people whom bad mouth the AMA are a more attractive crowd, more even handed and fair? I'm sorry, I don't think so.

Also, please don't make up your mind about the orginization, based on so few opinions as are presented here! Remember, the AMA has over 100,000 members, 99.999999999999999% of which never post anything on the AMA topic, here on R/CU!

My thoughts are most people visiting R/CU stay away from the AMA topic because some of the active users here are so caustic! I see this from both sides and for the most part equally.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

This forum is for those who want to turn our hobby, [flying toy airplanes] into vewwy, vewwy, seawious business.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

ROTFLOLPIMP! I needed that...

Watch out there Combat… some Barney might take their bullet out of their shirt pocket, put it in their pistol and nip this thread in the bud.

Actually there are quite a few even handed, level headed types in here…only a few real drones or malcontents. Unfortunately, the printed word such as this forum does not make the best means to convey messages…without human expression the simplest spot of humor becomes contentious…but still fun anyway but you have to be thick skinned. This forum is best suited to convey the facts and only the facts but philosophical discussion is much more fun and in the long run much more beneficial…otherwise this forum could be locked with one admonishment; Contact the AMA if you have any questions…what fun would that be?

This is about fun isn’t it?

Oh! I forgot it is about saving the world from our hobby… err…or is it saving our hobby from the world… Can’t get that straight…what the heck…I’ll just shut up and fly.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Forgot this before I go.

BTW for whatever its worth. What the heck would be wrong with prorating the dues? Seems simple enough to me… Back in the dark ages there may have been some reason for such an antiquated backwards thinking system but this is the 21st century after all. Time to get with the times IMO.

OVSS Boss

5487,
I think that you just need to ask, does AMA fit a need and go from there. AMA is far from perfect, but you should go to the horse show world. Do not take for any weight what happens here as a reflection on your local situation and those afore mentioned needs. And ya, it is about having fun!

H5487

OVSS Boss,

I know what you mean about "horse people." I used to fly them (I flew for a Part 135 - air taxi - company in the 1990s) between Houston and Lexington, KY during the show season. Very egotistical folks! (Or at least the ones that I came in contact were.)

Hossfly

The biggest thing "wrong" is the record keeping required at the Charter Club. Over the past several years, the record-keeping factor has been pointed out a number of times in this forum. Pro-rating the dues is basically the same as having dues being for a year from paying, like a "Fiscal Year" so to speak.

When things get heated up here, there are those that bleat the proverbial this is a "hobby" and should not be taken seriously. In most cases of the local relatively small group of a small number, say 20 to 60, of members, such may well be the case. At the other end of the scale, there are many clubs with memberships well over a hundred. There exists many clubs where the flying facility has administrative ties and/or restrictions to the Chartered Club requirements. To keep up-to-date records requires serious work. This happens either in "Fiscal-Year" or "Pro-rated" dues. Of course at least "Pro-Rated" is better because all die on the same date, which makes it easier for the Sec/Treas to keep up on that part.

Now give due consideration to the fact that those charged with the record-keeping duties are so-called "hobbyists" which are volunteering their allotted "hobby time" to provide a service to the 90% of the club members that will not do one da_n thing for the club except pay the dues when finally chased down. Why should those that serve voluntarily be encumbered with such additional duty of chasing these people down on a 7/24, 365 day job, when once a year now works so well?

Having served as Secretary and President within several clubs, two having large memberships and multi-thousand $$ budgets each year, I have every respect for those that serve and try to do things correctly. OTOH those that do not be businesslike, I have no tolerance for.

In reality, those joining AMA late in the year do get a kind of prorate PROVIDING they renew. I don't see anything wrong with that. All one has to do is keep up and join each year.

Hossfly

Yes, and they have a right to be. Most of these people have to tend with many many flakes always trying to get something for nothing. I have a Step Son-in-Law that is in the business. Those that do the jobs and provide the equipment have to be ready to invest lots of $$ in items that are not warranted to be a money-maker. []

Unlike those that complain about AMA dues, club dues, etc., etc., these people that show the horses are, in many cases, simply enjoying their HOBBY! They well know if one cannot afford his/her HOBBY, then go do something else. I for one may well do a lot of modeling, but show horses I CAN'T afford. [:-] When I can't afford modeling, then there is always fishing with a cane pole on the creek.

http://www.classycoursesinc.com/

rcmiket

Take a look at how much the Model Aviation costs the membership. Math Class was never attended.

Mode One

And so the mindless battle rages, on and on, continuously and on into eternity. We no more than beat one dead horse into a bloody pile of twitching pulp, then it resurrects itself and must be beaten down again! The troops grow weary of the fight; but, rest and continue to battle on...

abel_pranger

Hoss-

I didn't grasp all your words about "Fiscal-Year" being the same as (or was it different from?) pro-rated, but I do understand and agree with the cited part. Actually, at least one of the clubs I belong to does pro-rate dues for new members, e.g., join in July and pay half the freight. Gotta deal with newbies any time of year, so I don't see any additional burden on the treasurer (unless he is too math-challenged to do the pro rata computation, in which case he prolly ought not to be treasurer). Can't see any good cause to pro-rate dues for other than new members, and as you say, they all die on the same date.

I think a poll of club treasurers would reveal they overwhelmingly prefer that to the AMA formula for applying credit for the succeeding year, especially because it would have to be done when they have to deal with all the renewals. I expect so would the vast majority of new members, as it would preclude confusion of the sort that initiated this thread. Besides, model.flyer isn't always going to be on the spot with the answer (AFAIK, that is).

I think LCS has a good point - why would it be any different for AMA (except for disrupting a we've-always-done-it-that-way mindset)?

Abel

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I really fail to see how prorating AMA dues increases the club’s record keeping or the AMA’s for that matter. As the one that keeps our club's records, it makes no difference at all, since the expiration date remains the same.

Hossfly

There is a fair possibility that here in the South, there may not be a lot of difference. In the northern parts, without some form of prodding, many modelers would wait until May -- Jul. to renew AMA. They wait until "flying season".

This causes AMA to have to do the same paperwork for a join-up at a reduced fee for AMA. Why should they have to do that? Why can't the newbie simply pay the dues and if he doesn't want to stay, then that is the cost of the investigation. My 5th-Wheel hasn't bee out of my barn for over 3 years, yet I have to pay the $65 registration fee each year just in case I do decide to go for a trip. If I fail to pay, then when I do pay it is from the day it was due. That's life. Time some of these whiners learn the facts.

With pro-rated AMA dues, then the Club Officers have to decide to either throw the bum out or be sure he is restricted until he pays his AMA dues, whenever that might be. With dues paid for a year, it is easy enough to check via web if he pays by his renewal date, yet no club officer should have to do that.

11 years ago I fixed that at Jetero.

AMA Bylaws :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
ARTICLE VI
Dues
The Executive Council shall set dues for all types of AMA
membership. Any AMA member who fails to pay annual dues within
thirty (30) days after they are due and payable shall be dropped from
the membership rolls. In any event, a member’s dues must be
currently paid in order to exercise the right to vote.
<<<<<<<<<<<

Jetero extends a non-voting courtesy until Jan. 31. To renew Club, one must also have current AMA. On Feb 01, if not rejoined, both Club and AMA, said ex-member will have to reapply as a new member including the initiation fee and being revoted in.

It all happens on a yearly basis. No chasing. If the newbie from last Jun has not renewed AMA, then he can be counted as gone, and no chase need be made. If he does return, he's simply another newbie, AGAIN. ProRated AMA and/or club dues doesn't save anyone any significant $$ because of our Initiation Fee.

Pro-Rating AMA is of no consequence here simply because of our significant initiation and dues structure. I do not say it is a big load, however I don't subscribe to any thing that will cause the Club Officer to have to donate any more time to that job than is absolutely needed for the Club's benefit. Trying to save someone something less than $58 is not worth any change that may fall on a volunteer club member.

That's my story, I'm sticking to it and you can well stick to yours.

abel_pranger

Hoss-

Limit the pro-rating deal to newbies, don't allow it for re-ups.
How hard would that be?

Abel

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Sorry but those aren't the facts. You are comparing your state gov't to a flying club. There are plenty of clubs that allow pro-rating or discounts for partial year memberships. I believe the AMA has the best and safest solution for memberships renewals. Keyword safest.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

The Best is arguable to say the least but safest???? Where do you get that?

I think if the AMA mandated whatever you would claim that is best way.

Hossfly

Abel, at what point of time do you separate the "renewal" from a "newbie"?

You must have -- as I have at least 50 times in the past 10 years -- have visitors stop at the field and when discussing the club or AMA, they state they are either or both a club member and/or the AMA. Further questioning reveals that they consider themselves a member yet they, ".... haven't paid dues for 10 (pick a number) years." People have some real spaced-out conceptions of reality. Many more than a few think of AMA/Club dues like credit cards: as long as they pay the minimum each month they don't owe anything!!!! [sm=52_52.gif]

I see no reason for AMA to worry about anyone wishing to enter the sport of model aviation under AMA's protection, but cannot afford $58 for a membership.