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Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

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Old 01-24-2007, 11:21 PM
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Hossfly
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Default Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

Dave Brown: AMA Web site:

"In a few countries it's a matter of
being recognized as a sport or
being out of business!"

http://www.modelaircraft.org/mag/Feb.../president.htm

The article thesis may be new, but the message isn't.
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

I do not understand why people have a problem with this. I look at it that building airplanes is my hobby; flying airplanes is my sport. I would therefore have no need to approach the park department about space to pursue my hobby.
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

It's both, why should I wrongly call my building and non-competitive flying a sport? I would be wrong. Guys that fly competitively are more in line with the definition of a sport, especially if they make money at it.

What's the point of this, anyway? If I call it a sport when talking to the guys in my club, the airlines are going to rewrite their definition?
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!


ORIGINAL: ptulmer

What's the point of this, anyway? If I call it a sport when talking to the guys in my club, the airlines are going to rewrite their definition?
Patrick-

Good question.

If it's a real issue, some guidance directed at the AMA Pubs Director seems more likely to have an impact than sermonizing to the general membership.

Abel
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Old 01-25-2007, 01:27 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

Looked more like a plea for help than a sermon to me.

Article: Dave Brown excerpt

My point is there are many valid reasons for us to overlook our personal ideas in terms of what it is that we enjoy, and agree to call it a sport in order to make the most of the advantages that designation might have for us.

As I mentioned earlier, I am a part of a committee charged with investigating ways we might ease the transportation problems that competitors from some countries are experiencing. I want to hear from any AMA member who has professional connections within the security area or in the baggage-transportation area for airlines. I need help getting to the right people who might help us achieve some regulatory relief from the inconsistency of application of the current rules.
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Old 01-25-2007, 01:38 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

Hmmm... and here I thought he had connections in the FAA. That's why we're not regulated.
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Old 01-25-2007, 03:09 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

My point, obliquely made, is that a local authority may consider a dedicated field for a sport, but not for a hobby. I think it is important what terminology we use when dealing with folks who are allocating land for sports--soccor, baseball, horseshoes, model aviation, etc.

I understand in England model aviation is oficially recognized as a sport, and therefore has a right to obtain use of public lands allocated for sports.
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Old 01-25-2007, 03:40 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!


ORIGINAL: model.flyer

Looked more like a plea for help than a sermon to me.
Fine, we're talking about word smithing anyway.

So what might he expect us to do, help wise? I don't compete and so consider myself a sport flyer. What else?

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Old 01-25-2007, 04:18 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!


ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson

My point, obliquely made, is that a local authority may consider a dedicated field for a sport, but not for a hobby. I think it is important what terminology we use when dealing with folks who are allocating land for sports--soccor, baseball, horseshoes, model aviation, etc.

I understand in England model aviation is oficially recognized as a sport, and therefore has a right to obtain use of public lands allocated for sports.

Yep, and so is it in Russia. Pres. of Jetero RC is big RC Combat competitor. He and his son both were/are big CL combat competitors. Son was once FAI World Champ. Jetero Pres. is still CL Combat Board Chairman. They have a Russian friend that comes over ever so often for a visit. As a Master of Sport he is provided an apartment very close to a large shop where he can build and test. Includes all the machines needed to build and/or rework engines, etc.

As for me personally, I find it very difficult to understand those that resent elevating the ACTIVITY of model aviation into any usable name that would offer the slightest chance of being fruitful in getting the attention of local Councils, Boards whatever to assist Clubs and /or individuals to obtain flying facilities and unit recognition. [:-]

Yep, jus' beats the 'eLL out of me why some people cannot see beyond the end of their nose.
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Old 01-25-2007, 04:44 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

Hoss, just in case that last bit was pointed at me too, I think that at a competitive level it is a sport and would like to see it recognized. However, I don't think it's the governments job to provide anything. I would extend that to all sports, though. Providing access to public land is one thing, but putting up goals, fences, etc is a misuse of people's tax money.
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Old 01-25-2007, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!


ORIGINAL: ptulmer

Hoss, just in case that last bit was pointed at me too, I think that at a competitive level it is a sport and would like to see it recognized.
Patrick-

I'd like to have it recognized as a sport at all levels. Oddly, there seems to be wide acceptance of the usage "sport flyer/sport flying" in referring to the non-competitive aspects of the activity. AMA has adopted the title "Sport Aviator" for its e-zine for noobs. Hence my comment in a prior post about directing the issue to the Pubs Director.

There is a disconnect in Brown's presentation of the problem and his approach to resolving it. The stated problem being aeromodeling not being "officially" recognized as a sport, and his solution is to enlist the aid of airport baggage handling and security personnel. Are they supposed to classify model flying as a sport?

That seemed silly, so I presumed he was looking to us to do something about the root of the problem, lack of recognition as a sport, while he pursues workaround measures to mitigate the effect, which is to impede the ability of competitors to travel to events. That may well be a bad presumption on my part. In any case, he could use some help from the editor in writing whatever it is he means to say.

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Old 01-25-2007, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

its a hobby !cheerleading is more a sport than flying models. why argue about this trifle thing I sure would not trust the airlines with a scale model ive built. Corporate sponsored flyers (chip Hyde) probably use private aircraft and dont have anything to worry about
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Old 01-25-2007, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

One of these days we will become organized and approach the local park department about replacing a flying field we lost due to non use back in the 70's (now a soccor field). We might hire a highly paid consultant to come in and present our case. However, I doubt we will consider hiring Timothy to represent us.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

ORIGINAL: ptulmer

It's both, why should I wrongly call my building and non-competitive flying a sport? I would be wrong. Guys that fly competitively are more in line with the definition of a sport, especially if they make money at it.

What's the point of this, anyway? If I call it a sport when talking to the guys in my club, the airlines are going to rewrite their definition?
Sport/Hobby, Hobby/Sport? Does it matter? Also, since when did being paid, define something as being a sport? What is hunting, what is fishing, hiking, biking, motorcycles? How many are involved in one of the activities and get paid, how many are involved and don't get paid. Here is another treat for you, You don't want to call your hobby a sport, I don't really care, you can call it what ever you want. Just don't tell me I'm wrong if I do!
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:58 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sport

The third definition is all I needed to see. Abel, you da man! I bow to a superior intellect. But, I bet I'm better lookin'.
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Old 01-25-2007, 08:02 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

Mode One, by definition, a hobby isn't a job. Yeah, the line doesn't need to be drawn about what's what. I'll call it cheerleading if it makes Timothy happy. Sports are normally athletic in nature. I make the "walk of shame" often enough I'd qualify anyway.[sm=lol.gif]
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Old 01-25-2007, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!


ORIGINAL: ptulmer

<snip> I bet I'm better lookin'.
Patrick-

You should have continued down to definition 12, then.

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Old 01-25-2007, 08:25 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

Well, good lord. I made it into the dictionary!
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Old 01-25-2007, 10:26 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

I think ptulmer hit the nail on the head. Most people, when thinking of a sport tend to think of some level of physical activity over and above that of a couch potato. And let's face it, standing on the flight line swiveling our heads left and right doesn't exactly invoke visions of physical activity, sweat or potentially exhaustive effort. Nor does seemingly endless hours of inhalation of fumes from model airplane glues, paints, fuels, etc.

So let's face it, the public, both those in charge and those who we're expecting to share their recreational spaces with us, need to be educated and convinced of the sport like worthyness of this........our hobby. Of course, a national level effort at such education would be nice. But that might require the AMA to actually be noticed! However, I suspect they're too busy chasing bikes off the Muncie property to bother with a form of public relations like this!

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Old 01-25-2007, 10:54 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

Maybe we could apply for the same waiver bowling and curling received.

ORIGINAL: ptulmer
Sports are normally athletic in nature.
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:08 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

As far as myself I consider models a hobby but for those who fly in competition I think
to them it can be considered a sport, however no matter what we call it I dont think
airlines should stop anyone from transporting their models maybe the AMA should
work with the FAA to stop this practice.
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Old 01-26-2007, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

Let me get in on this conversation. Two years ago I sold a 1/3 scale J-3 to a man in Iceland. I didn't want to package it, so he came to my house in Sebring, FL and picked it up himself. Then he proceeded to Home Depot where he purchased material to crate it. The fuselage was about three inches longer than the max. box length allowed on an airplane, but Erik said "what's three inches"? He told me that in order to get it back to Iceland, he would classify it as "SPORTING EQUIPMENT". From FL, Erik and his friend Thor, then drove with the plane to Boston, MA where they got on an airplane non-stop to Iceland. I talked to them later, and they didn't have any problems. The key here was the word "sport" that allowed them access to ship. If they had classified the model as "hobby equipment", it would not have been allowed on the airplane.
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:34 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!


ORIGINAL: ira d

As far as myself I consider models a hobby but for those who fly in competition I think
to them it can be considered a sport, however no matter what we call it I dont think
airlines should stop anyone from transporting their models maybe the AMA should
work with the FAA to stop this practice.
Unfortunately ira d, what you and I think has nothing to do when governmental agencies hire individuals that have so little knowledge that they would take from a former state govenor (South Dakota) and renowned WWII Marine Fighter Ace's MEDAL OF HONOR away and try to dispose of it. That was the late Joe Foss in Phoenix as he was proud of that medal and carried it with him forever. However it had a pin in it. Look now any form of knife is prohibited in carry-on baggage yet a KNITTING NEEDLE is legal. You cannot discuss a topic with such stupid bureaucrats. [:@]
In addition additional bureaucracies are quickly established with cancerous overlapping authorities issued, and so few actually know their duties that no one does anything except maneuver for photo-ops. While the FAA maneuvers under the National Transportation Safety Board, AMA would actually have to get in bed with the Department of Homeland Security and thus the Transportation Security Administration if AMA should really seek relief in the realm of transporting model airplanes as checked baggage. As of now batteries with any spillable liquid and and any flammable liquid are no-go items in checked baggage. Some airlines refuse a model engine if it has any indication of oil -- spillable liquid!!!
Just back to the old cliche. "Never ask permission from anyone not qualified to answer 'Yes'." In this day and age "NO" is the easy answer.

The key here was the word "sport" that allowed them access to ship.
Right on Jim. A bit off topic however a funny story: There is a guy up in Chicago-land that builds beautiful BIIGGG models and Jim, I am certain that you know who!
He and a buddy that owned an undertaking business use to go out to the big events out west as "Escorts" for a "casket/body" going on a plane. (No big security stuff back then. We carried many caskets during the South-East Asia War-Games days.) There were no additional costs for the large size of caskets. No one checks the contents. Old XXXX and his buddy didn't miss many of the Big Bird events around the country. I see in the media that he is still getting around. Don't know how.
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

My .02

Building can be either a hobby or an occupation. Flying can be a hobby, occupation, and sport, used interchangably as the circumstances require.

Here's a tip when it comes time to ship a used engine and the shipper wants to label it "hazmat". Pull the plug and flush the engine with straight Marvel Mystery Oil. It rinses any fuel residue. Replace the old plug with new. Replace the gas tank entirely. Oil is not a hazardous material until it hits the ground
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Old 01-30-2007, 01:22 PM
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Default RE: Dave, John Brodak and I have been telling You!

Wow, I am so glad the AMA is so busy! What a waste of man power and resources. What % of AMA members would this effect? My guess is less than .01% Maybe the resources of the AMA should be put towards a project that would impack the AMA membership. BTW calling flying RC a sport is like calling playing porker a sport. I know ESPN has it on.

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