AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

turbine waivers,,anything new?

Reply

Old 02-14-2007, 01:35 PM
  #1  
bofrcr
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: clyde, OH
Posts: 153
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default turbine waivers,,anything new?

Hi guys! as I'm puttzin' around on the 'puter here today,,(ugly weather here in northern ohio today),,I'm wondering if there's been any changes in the rules? As an other post header said,, "if I buy a gun,, do I have to join the NRA?",,LOL,, and that got me to thinking,,so I thought I'd ask this question! I'd bet a LOT of money,,there's guys flying jets that don't have a waiver!! ok,, it'll be interesting to read the comments to this!!
bofrcr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 02:05 PM
  #2  
Sir Lance
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Johannesburg| South AfricaEC, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 24
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Hi Gentlemen, I find this topic to be very interesting. I live in Johannesburg, South Africa. Our equivalent to AMA is SAAMA or South African Model Aircraft Association. It is set up much along the lines of our British cousin, BMFA or British Model Flyers Association.

Here in SA, it is only the really wealthy that can afford to own & operate a turbine powered aircraft. Unfortunately the vast majority of these well heeled gentlemen have more money than flying ability but are still allowed to fly these aircraft more or less unregulated. We do have here what is known as a "jet rating" but I know for a fact that is not policed that closely.

I have no idea of your proficiency ratings, but I hold a SAMAA Instructor Rating which is as high as you can go, & legally allows me to fly displays in front of crowds from non-regulated fields such as schoolyards etc. Unfortunately I have not yet attained the financial status to move in jet circles, nor am I rated on jets, but I am I feel qualified to take note & comment on the really basic flying errors that I see regularly amongst this select group of people.

Were I to be in the position to help formulate regulations, I would suggest that there be a mandatory period (and number of hours) that a "rookie" jet pilot be made to fly dual with a suitably qualified instructor, and that once qualified, the rating should last for 12 months & be renewed as such.

We have another problem here & that is that a rookie pilot can qualify for his solo (basic rating) rating on Saturday with a 40 sized trainer, & quite legally take off on Sunday with a DA150 powered Extra or similar.

I welcome reading more posts on this topic.
Sir Lance is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 02:07 PM
  #3  
P-51B
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
 
P-51B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Posts: 6,747
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Heck, as long as they aren't at an AMA field there isn't a need for a waiver.

I have always wondered how the first guys to do anything got certified, and who certified the people who certified them....
P-51B is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 02:14 PM
  #4  
geh3
My Feedback: (84)
 
geh3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,358
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Well I just recently recieved my waiver and I think the US method does make some sense. I got a model inspection, flight training, engine handling training and the first flight was done by the instructor and then I flew it. In my case I was a known entity at my club field and had a reputation as a good builder and pilot before I got into turbines! This system seems to keep just anyone from getting a turbine and flying it in any sort of plane at an AMA field and there are very few flying sites that are not AMA in the US. The turbine AC DOES fly faster and therefore has to be built to a higher standard than slower AC!
geh3 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 08:11 PM
  #5  
ira d
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Moreno Valley, CA
Posts: 3,126
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Yes there are people flying turbines without waivers but its best to keep it on the quite
side. as has been said if not at a AMA field no problem and if at a AMA field and no one
around to say anything no problem.

I dont think the waiver thing is handled as good as it could be I think the AMA should
have one of there employees come out and sign you off and git rid of haveing to find
two CDs that are willing to meet with you to get a waiver.
ira d is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 08:34 PM
  #6  
bofrcr
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: clyde, OH
Posts: 153
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Thanks for your response,,sir lance!! boy!! did you hit the nail on the head!! LOL the term we use is,, "more money then brains"!! A short story: my son lives and works in a town about an hours drive away,,and belongs to the local club there. a few years ago,, some guy was interested in the hobby,, and since he was a retired airline pilot,, felt that a trainer was "beneath" him (after all,,he flew with the airlines ),,so,, he goes out and buys this big pre-built P-51,,all set up and ready to go. of coarse,,his ego wasn't about to let any of the guys "help" him,, as the story goes,, he did manage to get it in the air,,for all of maybe 2-3 seconds,, it rolled over on it's back,, and smack! rekitted!!
'[:@] he picked up the peices,, left,, and they never saw him again! I can understand the concern of the AMA to keep this same thing from happening,, especially from x military types! (if any of you guys have ever had any experience with them,,you know what I mean ) at LEAST,,have the intended turbine owner have SOME level of experience in the hobby,, IMO,,, be able to handle a low wing fast plane,, etc,, I would have to agree that some kind of flight ability be demonstrated to someone in authority,, anyway,, just thought I'd get back with ya,, thanks again!
bofrcr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 09:02 PM
  #7  
Sir Lance
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Johannesburg| South AfricaEC, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 24
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

P-51, with the greatesst of respect, it is attitudes like that that lead to the horrible accidents like those I'm sure we've all read about in Europe. None of the aircraft we fly, from the smallest 40 sized trainer to the fastest jet are toys. Each of them can potentially kill you. As an example, the energy carried by a 40 trainer at 40 Kmh is greater than that of a speeding .357 Magnum bullet!

As we all know, jets attract spectators better than flies. Can you imagine the law suit should an "unwavered" jet jock lose control & maim or kill one of these innocent people? Let alone the sufferering of the bereaved?

We are fast cleaning up our act here in SA, and introducing classes of aircraft on which you will be rated. These ratings will be tested and renewed annualy. After all, if we consider ourselves to be model aircraft pilots, why should we not have the same standards as our full size brothers? Our aircraft are more difficult to fly than theirs, & we donn't have airspeed indicators or stall warning devices.

A perfect example of what I'm trying to say:

I fly a 2 X 2 pattern bird in competitions at least twice a month. But I am also our club's chief instructor which means I very frequently get to fly brand new aircraft that are out of trim & really difficult to fly during those first few minutes. A pattern colleague of mine was recently asked to maden a new trainer. You guessed it, he was clueless & crashed the aircraft within the first 60 seconds. He had become used to the superb & smooth flying qualities of a large a powerful pattern ship, & had completely forgotten the skills needed to fly a light & out of trim aircraft. The crash occurred very close to the pits, luckily nobody was hurt..................this time.
Sir Lance is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 09:08 PM
  #8  
Sir Lance
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Johannesburg| South AfricaEC, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 24
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Hi bofrcr, thanks for the comments At the moment I am teaching a pilot who flies large jets for the airline & has over 10 000 hours. In the air he is more than OK, co-ordinated turns good, even uses the rudder without me having shown him. But he cannot land! From about 10 feet he "spots" the runway & dives for it without even the hint of a flare. Thank goodness for buddyboxes!
Sir Lance is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 09:20 PM
  #9  
Lomcevak Duck
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
 
Lomcevak Duck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Enterprise, AL
Posts: 1,233
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Here in the States, model aircraft aren't legally governed by any organization, and we don't need a turbine waiver unless we are flying a turbine at an AMA sanctioned field. And although terrible things can and have happened, they ARE toys in the end, and don't require governmental certification to operate. That is not to say that one shouldn't use extreme caution in some cases, and reasonable precautions at all times.
Lomcevak Duck is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 09:24 PM
  #10  
Lomcevak Duck
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
 
Lomcevak Duck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Enterprise, AL
Posts: 1,233
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

...And though you may be right about a .40 model impact having a higher kinetic energy, the impact force in Newtons will not be near that of the proverbial .357 bullet. That's not really a fair comparison
Lomcevak Duck is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2007, 07:10 AM
  #11  
B.L.E.
Senior Member
 
B.L.E.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,333
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Time for some fact checking.

A 6.5 pound trainer going 40 kmh has 134 ft-lb of kinetic energy

A 158 grain .357 magnum bullet going 1300 ft per second has 592 ft-lb of energy

A 40 grain .22 long rifle bullet going 1250 ft per second has 138 ft-lb of energy
B.L.E. is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2007, 08:01 AM
  #12  
u2fast
My Feedback: (37)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: houston, TX
Posts: 2,397
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

bofrcr, let me see if i can summarize your thoughts correctly? if you work hard and earn a good living and can afford jets, most likely you cant build or fly. if you are x military, or more politely put, former military, you are most likely a loose cannon with a big ego. i also read somewhere on this thread about what a lawsuit a jet going out of control would cause. is the lawsuit any less when any other type of model causes an accident? my translation of your and other thoughts i read here are to me as follows. look at the jet guy, sure spends a lot on the hobby, probably cant fly though. and really look out if he is a former marine, probably going to blow up the place. all i really think about this thread is there is a lot of jealousy in the world and the model airplane community is not exempt. last time i checked, jets have killed no one, i also no of no injuries caused by a jet. could a bad situation happen with a jet. heck yes, but higher standards are in place and would appear to be working. there have been some killed and injured by prop planes and choppers. the last known fatality i know of was in europe and it was a comp arf pitts bipe that killed two after radio failure at a large model fly in. the bottom line is this, turbine guys are required to have a waiver and jump some hurdles that most other modelors do not have to. i am ok with that, mainly because of the fire risk. do i think every jet flyer is the best, nope. but that is life. an equally dangerous model is large 3ders. they have to pass no inspection, they often take pics of them selves hovering over people and usually at an ama field. example, go check out the down on the deck website. heck they are hovering over ladies in bikinis on their site. they might even be former military too[X(]. no peep about that, just a thread about the ego meany jet guy. my 2 cents, barry
u2fast is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2007, 11:34 AM
  #13  
Lomcevak Duck
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
 
Lomcevak Duck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Enterprise, AL
Posts: 1,233
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Time for some fact checking
Ahh BLE, you beat me to it. I ran the numbers when I got up this morning and you got there first.

And for the record, I would much rather be hit by the trainer than even the .22 bullet.
Lomcevak Duck is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2007, 04:33 PM
  #14  
JustABigKid
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 293
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

I just starting to build my first jet, and although I've heard from a number of knowledgeable people, I'm still not clear on this turbine waiver process. Based on my current understanding, my questions are:
[ul][*] Do I have to have 50 flights on an airplane capable of 100mph (which is what I think I read in the AMA 510 document)?[*] Since the planes I currently own fly slower than 100mph, do I therefore have to fly 50 flights on my new jet (Boomerang Intro) with an existing turbine waiver holder on buddy box?[*] Once I have the 50 flight at over 100mph under my belt, do I just have to then fly a "qualification flight" in front of a Turbine Contest Director and 2 other waiver holder, so they can sign my waiver?[*] Once I get the turbine waiver, is the AMA liability insurance in effect for my jet? Or does the "turbine waiver" mean that my jet is not covered by the AMA liability insurance, but I'm allowed to fly at an AMA field?
[/ul]
You can see I'm kinda confused... [sm=confused.gif]
JustABigKid is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2007, 05:04 PM
  #15  
bofrcr
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: clyde, OH
Posts: 153
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Hey KenCClark! "YOU GO GUY"!! VERY good point!! I'm glad you've brought this up! I haven't wondered if the purpose of this is to at least show you CAN fly a high speed aircraft! It's gonna be interesting to see the responses to this!!
ORIGINAL: KenCClark

I just starting to build my first jet, and although I've heard from a number of knowledgeable people, I'm still not clear on this turbine waiver process. Based on my current understanding, my questions are:
[ul][*] Do I have to have 50 flights on an airplane capable of 100mph (which is what I think I read in the AMA 510 document)?[*] Since the planes I currently own fly slower than 100mph, do I therefore have to fly 50 flights on my new jet (Boomerang Intro) with an existing turbine waiver holder on buddy box?[*] Once I have the 50 flight at over 100mph under my belt, do I just have to then fly a "qualification flight" in front of a Turbine Contest Director and 2 other waiver holder, so they can sign my waiver?[*] Once I get the turbine waiver, is the AMA liability insurance in effect for my jet? Or does the "turbine waiver" mean that my jet is not covered by the AMA liability insurance, but I'm allowed to fly at an AMA field?
[/ul]
You can see I'm kinda confused... [sm=confused.gif]
bofrcr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2007, 05:18 PM
  #16  
bofrcr
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: clyde, OH
Posts: 153
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Thanks for the reponse,,u2fast!,, I think! LOL Yes,, I agree with you on the point you made on the hovering that someguys seem to like to do,,(It's ok,, kinda neat),,and on the "jealousy"? well,, that's kinda imature, I think,, heck,, ya don't have to be in this hobby to see a lot of that!,,LOL I'd maybe soften it to "envy"? LOL we all will suffer that to some degree,, when some guy shows up with something cool,, anyway,, I certainly don't have any answers to this issue,,and I didn't want to pick on any one group,, certainly,, someone with a 40% plane and a 150 in it,, as you point out,, can be far more dangerous,,well,, thanks again,,
ORIGINAL: u2fast

bofrcr, let me see if i can summarize your thoughts correctly? if you work hard and earn a good living and can afford jets, most likely you cant build or fly. if you are x military, or more politely put, former military, you are most likely a loose cannon with a big ego. i also read somewhere on this thread about what a lawsuit a jet going out of control would cause. is the lawsuit any less when any other type of model causes an accident? my translation of your and other thoughts i read here are to me as follows. look at the jet guy, sure spends a lot on the hobby, probably cant fly though. and really look out if he is a former marine, probably going to blow up the place. all i really think about this thread is there is a lot of jealousy in the world and the model airplane community is not exempt. last time i checked, jets have killed no one, i also no of no injuries caused by a jet. could a bad situation happen with a jet. heck yes, but higher standards are in place and would appear to be working. there have been some killed and injured by prop planes and choppers. the last known fatality i know of was in europe and it was a comp arf pitts bipe that killed two after radio failure at a large model fly in. the bottom line is this, turbine guys are required to have a waiver and jump some hurdles that most other modelors do not have to. i am ok with that, mainly because of the fire risk. do i think every jet flyer is the best, nope. but that is life. an equally dangerous model is large 3ders. they have to pass no inspection, they often take pics of them selves hovering over people and usually at an ama field. example, go check out the down on the deck website. heck they are hovering over ladies in bikinis on their site. they might even be former military too[X(]. no peep about that, just a thread about the ego meany jet guy. my 2 cents, barry
bofrcr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2007, 05:19 PM
  #17  
JustABigKid
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 293
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

ORIGINAL: bofrcr

Hey KenCClark! "YOU GO GUY"!! VERY good point!! I'm glad you've brought this up! I haven't wondered if the purpose of this is to at least show you CAN fly a high speed aircraft! It's gonna be interesting to see the responses to this!!
ORIGINAL: KenCClark

I just starting to build my first jet, and although I've heard from a number of knowledgeable people, I'm still not clear on this turbine waiver process. Based on my current understanding, my questions are:
[ul][*] Do I have to have 50 flights on an airplane capable of 100mph (which is what I think I read in the AMA 510 document)?[*] Since the planes I currently own fly slower than 100mph, do I therefore have to fly 50 flights on my new jet (Boomerang Intro) with an existing turbine waiver holder on buddy box?[*] Once I have the 50 flight at over 100mph under my belt, do I just have to then fly a "qualification flight" in front of a Turbine Contest Director and 2 other waiver holder, so they can sign my waiver?[*] Once I get the turbine waiver, is the AMA liability insurance in effect for my jet? Or does the "turbine waiver" mean that my jet is not covered by the AMA liability insurance, but I'm allowed to fly at an AMA field?
[/ul]
You can see I'm kinda confused... [sm=confused.gif]
I guess my other option is to put a higher pitch prop on the Somemzini Yak I currently fly, lean it out, and try to get it up to 100mph...[sm=biggrin.gif] I think the 100mph requirement is a little silly. The Boomerang Intro jet I'm building flys (so I hear) much like an IMAC plane, and not much faster. So what's the deal with the 100mph magic number?
JustABigKid is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2007, 05:46 PM
  #18  
JustABigKid
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 293
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Oh! [X(] I just noticed that the AMA 510-A document says that "All waiver affidavit applicants should have accomplished at least 50 flights on a high performance model capable of sustained speeds of 100 mph or higher." (emphasis added...) I was reading this as "must" have at least 50 flights... So I guess 510-A is just saying here that turbine waiver applicants should have the 50 flights so as to not waste the time of the other waiver holders. This fits better with what I've heard from other people on this forum. Cool![sm=thumbup.gif]

So I guess as long as I can do the qualification flight without wasting the other guy's time, then I don't really need the 100mph flights - flying my 80 mph planes will prepare me just fine!
JustABigKid is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2007, 11:35 AM
  #19  
P-51B
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
 
P-51B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Posts: 6,747
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?


ORIGINAL: Sir Lance

P-51, with the greatesst of respect, it is attitudes like that that lead to the horrible accidents like those I'm sure we've all read about in Europe. None of the aircraft we fly, from the smallest 40 sized trainer to the fastest jet are toys. Each of them can potentially kill you. As an example, the energy carried by a 40 trainer at 40 Kmh is greater than that of a speeding .357 Magnum bullet!

As we all know, jets attract spectators better than flies. Can you imagine the law suit should an "unwavered" jet jock lose control & maim or kill one of these innocent people? Let alone the sufferering of the bereaved?

We are fast cleaning up our act here in SA, and introducing classes of aircraft on which you will be rated. These ratings will be tested and renewed annualy. After all, if we consider ourselves to be model aircraft pilots, why should we not have the same standards as our full size brothers? Our aircraft are more difficult to fly than theirs, & we donn't have airspeed indicators or stall warning devices.


Sir Lance,

While I cerainly understand your view, fortunately here in the US, we are not required to get Waivers to fly models. Only AMA members who want to be covered by AMA insurance while doing so, or while flying at AMA facilities need to. The AMA is not the law in the U.S.

And I will respectfully disagree, they are all still toys. I can potentially be killed by tripping and falling, being hit by a golf ball, riding a bike, slipping on a toy car, or...well the list is endless. Personally, I think it is lunacy to voluntarily want toy airplanes to be regulated like full scale ones. The last thing we need is more big brother invlovment. Heck, are you licesned to purchase a hammer? You could hit someone on the head with it if you're not careful. Life is full of risks, and trying to police them all away will put everyone in a small room with an I.V. feeding them what ever the government determines is safe for them to have as nourishment.

Can you imagine the lawsuit if a jet jock hits some one and injurs or kills them, or the resultant fire starts a brush fire that burns down 1000 homes...REGARDLESS of whether the pilot had a waiver from a model organization or not?
P-51B is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2007, 02:45 PM
  #20  
Sir Lance
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Johannesburg| South AfricaEC, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 24
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Hi P51B, I apologise if I have upset you. This was not my intention. I suppose being ex-military I feel comfortable in the training, safety, & discipline that the umbrella of a well regulated organisation stands for. In this country we lost many flying fields before we started tightening up the regs. I suppose it is different. Before I qualified for my international FAI licence I couldn't fly at ANY field in Europe without being on a buddy box, despite having thousands of logged flights under my belt. There they are really strict and will not let you loose even with a foamie unless you are qualified. So I guess we're not that bad
Sir Lance is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2007, 03:16 PM
  #21  
Sir Lance
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Johannesburg| South AfricaEC, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 24
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Hi Lomcevak, I missed your post whilst readiing through them. Trust me, I have seen the damage that an out of control trainer powered by an OS FX 46 can do to a human body! It gets very hot here & sometimes the thermals that come off a black tarmac runway have to be seen to be believed. Anyway, the trainer in question hit one of these thermals & the student flying practise approaches wasn't quick enough to correct, & the aircraft veered left & struck one of the pilots on his rib cage underneath his right arm. This resulted in a punctured lung, four broken ribs, & a skin graft to repair the hole made by the spinner & prop. It was not a pretty sight.

Guys I think we're going round in circles here I might be ex (or more correctly) former military (not USMC), but I'm not a contol or discipline freak. I have just been unlucky enough to witness the effects of poor or sloppy training and attitudes towards the flying of these "toy" aeroplanes we love so much.

Oh yes, & jealousy? Of course I'm jealous of a person who owns a jet! If I wasn't I wouldn't be human! Even without any kind of regulation though, I would prefer to have those 50 flights with an experienced jet jock before putting that amount of money in the air. I wasn't knocking the poor jet flying that I've seen because of jealousy. It's just that the errors I've seen are really basic ones like not noticing low airspeed and losing control whilst turning onto final approach. Despite many witnesses seeing the nose rising & the wing dropping, this particular pilot used the age old "receiver failure" excuse. Two weeks later, he'd purchased another one!

Sir Lance is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2007, 03:47 PM
  #22  
Stubborn Mule
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ,
Posts: 43
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

u2fast,

As a retired member of the military I object to your broad and generalized characterization of all military. Even though I do know quite well where you get your impression, I have seen the same type of approach to models in people of all walks of life. And I'm willing to bet you have too!

The Mule
Stubborn Mule is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2007, 04:06 PM
  #23  
P-51B
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
 
P-51B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Posts: 6,747
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

Sir Lance,

Don't get me wrong, you have not upset me. We just differ on where the "regulatory lines" need to begin and end. I also understand the pros and cons of the military mindset, having lived/been on a base or two.

I also understand your point about poor and sloppy training. But I also question the constency of the application of some things. For example, for some reason the AMA requires a waiver to fly a turbine. Many on here say it is because they are faaaaasssssst. But a giant scale racer, or a prop jet, can also reach and exceed the same speeds. Why no waiver? Because the turbine is a new, and therefore scary, engine for the toys?

Whatever the reason, I prefer not to have a bigger government. Particularly one that takes my money in the form of taxes to police toy planes while, for some reason, being unable to maintain the roads so I can get to work.
P-51B is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2007, 05:33 PM
  #24  
ira d
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Moreno Valley, CA
Posts: 3,126
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

IMO the AMA has never really wanted turbines the waiver thing is just a way to
discourage flyers from getting into turbines.
ira d is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2007, 07:53 PM
  #25  
u2fast
My Feedback: (37)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: houston, TX
Posts: 2,397
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: turbine waivers,,anything new?

stubborn mule, i think you miss understood my post. i was only paraphrasing a post higher up in the thread that warned of ex military types. i salute the military. they are why i am free. ex military types were being portrayed as loose cannons by the thread starter, not by me. barry
u2fast is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service