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Old 02-25-2007, 02:43 PM
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The minutes of the AMA's Executive Council Meeting, Monday, January 15, 2007 are now on the AMA Web site for public scrutiny, so here are some excerpts and some of my personal points of view. Some emphasis and editorials added in original texts.

Membership Growth (New Member)

The Marketing and Membership Growth reports were combined. The objective of the Membership Growth committee was to find ways to promote model aviation as a worthwhile recreational activity, (Ed. add; I love how all these old terms of my previous political campaign statements have wormed into AMA conversations) to grow the AMA membership and to improve the current members’ perception of the organization.
Projects being worked on include a total revision of the AMA web site. Hardware and software are in place and content is currently being added; Council viewed how the homepage will look. Banner ads are still being considered. When an inside page is viewed, a menu bar drops and the specific sections of the site are revealed. Features that will be added after content is completed will include a streamline renewal system (this is ready to go now but will wait until after peak renewal time to launch); real time credit card processing; a customized (by member) contest calendar; on-line charter renewal; streaming videos; and how-to videos. Links to district web sites will be made more obvious in the member service section. It is expected that the filing of sanction applications will be made available on this web site, however it hinges on the ability to accept credit card payment through the site. In a discussion on the AMA logo it was asked whether the words ‘since 1936’ can be taken out; it was agreed that two versions of the logo will be available, one with ‘since 1936’ (when promoting the credibility of the organization) and one without (when promoting the activity of model aviation). The President recommends using the term ‘sport’ in lieu of ‘hobby’ on the front page of the Web site; Schwyn will make sure the change is made.
Other projects being worked on include a newcomers guide reference handout; development and distribution of quick start guide to aero modeling CD; an AMA guide to member services; and development of a guide to acquiring e-sites. The quick start guide to aeromodeling CD was introduced at the AMA Convention this year and should be available for distribution by the first of February; the first draft of the guide to member services is expected by early March.

(Ed. add: looks like some of the ideas being discussed herein this forum by you people are also being discussed by the EC.)


M. Smith’s committee recognizes that the major stumbling block for the Park Flyer Program was the opposition to providing a discounted rate dues structure for those flying Park Flyer type planes. After further consideration by the committee, the idea of a complete dues restructure, with no bias to any particular discipline looked to be a viable option. Smith continues to gather information from various sources. A dues restructure can be looked at from three different standpoints: technology (nitro, gas, turbine, ff, electric), benefits (magazine or no magazine, sanctioned events or no sanctioned events, full insurance or a lesser insurance) and aircraft size (engine, wingspan, etc.); or any combination of the three.
Smith is looking for input from Council on whether the committee should continue to investigate the possibility of a dues restructure or if they are completely opposed to the idea. If he gets the go-ahead to continue gathering hard data, it is expected a proposal will be brought before Council at the April meeting for a vote. If approved the process would be implemented in June to be effective in 2008. (Electronic and Web changes would be necessary.) If not approved in April, it would most likely be 2009 before anything could be implemented

(Ed. add: At least other comments from here are being discussed and proposed and not being instantly voted on, yet not being forever tabled. Good or bad, the work is progressive. That is a definite improvement.)

( Ed. add:OTOH we now get back to AMA Business as Usual???")

Lunch 12:30 p.m. – 1:15 p.m.
EXECUTIVE SESSION – 1:15 p.m. – 2:55 p.m.

An EC member expressed disappointment that he felt he has continually been passed over for committee appointment even though he possesses expertise in various fields and has offered to serve on numerous committees in the past; he noted two recent incidents specifically. The President offered his reasoning behind the appointments he made.


(Ed. Add: Was the Executive Session reference that EC member's being side-stepped or something else? Notice the discussion -- the Pres. reasons are not stated in the mins., so must be in the Ex Ses. Interesting!)


• Club Charter Discussion
The club officer sheet requires some affirmations that they have such things as three-mile separation of sites, no discrimination within the operation of the club, etc., and they must submit a copy of their bylaws. However, AMA does not require that they submit any amendments to the bylaws. Hanson is suggesting that the affirmations signed by the club officers include statements that they will operate according to the provisions of their bylaws and that they will maintain a current copy of the bylaws at AMA Headquarters. Headquarters will refine its list of suggested items to include in club bylaws, into a list of items clubs must include in their bylaws. The club president will be required to sign an affirmation that their bylaws cover the items AMA requires, the club will operate according to the provisions of their bylaws and will maintain a current copy of bylaws at AMA Headquarters; failure to follow the bylaws could invalidate a clubs charter. These affirmations must be signed and returned to headquarters with each year’s charter request. Headquarters will inform clubs that these mandates will become effective with the 2008 charter renewals.

(Ed. add: WOW! Dictatorship raises its ugly head! I gave Hanson credit for preventing DB's infamous "ByLaws changes". Now I wonder just who may have prevented what! [:-] )


A Good Thing from the Mar. MA, also on the web site.

AMA Ex. Director Jim Cherry's points in the new Mar. MA receives a definite "I second that" from even me. AMA's shirt services have proven to be second to none.

Edit: Punctuation.
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Old 02-25-2007, 03:16 PM
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"M. Smith’s committee recognizes that the major stumbling block for the Park Flyer Program was the opposition to providing a discounted rate dues structure for those flying Park Flyer type planes. After further consideration by the committee, the idea of a complete dues restructure, with no bias to any particular discipline looked to be a viable option. Smith continues to gather information from various sources. A dues restructure can be looked at from three different standpoints: technology (nitro, gas, turbine, ff, electric), benefits (magazine or no magazine, sanctioned events or no sanctioned events, full insurance or a lesser insurance) and aircraft size (engine, wingspan, etc.); or any combination of the three.
Smith is looking for input from Council on whether the committee should continue to investigate the possibility of a dues restructure or if they are completely opposed to the idea. If he gets the go-ahead to continue gathering hard data, it is expected a proposal will be brought before Council at the April meeting for a vote. If approved the process would be implemented in June to be effective in 2008. (Electronic and Web changes would be necessary.) If not approved in April, it would most likely be 2009 before anything could be implemented ""
AMA minutes.

I believe there is high time for a discussion on modernizing AMA. Technology is outpacing the organization. The growth of electrics and parkfliers just in the last 3 years has been astounding. A few years ago, my tower magazine had electrics buried halfway into it and thee was only 1 or 2 pages. Now thee are sometimes more electric pages than glo, and they are commonly on the front page. In my area, electric flyers number moe than gas or glo combined. Some way we have to make the "sale" that these people need the AMA. The insurance is important, but representation is just as important. Now with the next leap in technology, spread spektrum radios, you no longer need frequency control, thus undermining the need for clubs. I believe an electric only membership with a speed and or weight limitation, at a reduced cost, maybe even without a magazine, is an exellent idea. Quite possibly, the promotion of electric only club charters.
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Old 02-25-2007, 03:24 PM
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"• Club Charter Discussion
The club officer sheet requires some affirmations that they have such things as three-mile separation of sites, no discrimination within the operation of the club, etc., and they must submit a copy of their bylaws. However, AMA does not require that they submit any amendments to the bylaws. Hanson is suggesting that the affirmations signed by the club officers include statements that they will operate according to the provisions of their bylaws and that they will maintain a current copy of the bylaws at AMA Headquarters. Headquarters will refine its list of suggested items to include in club bylaws, into a list of items clubs must include in their bylaws. The club president will be required to sign an affirmation that their bylaws cover the items AMA requires, the club will operate according to the provisions of their bylaws and will maintain a current copy of bylaws at AMA Headquarters; failure to follow the bylaws could invalidate a clubs charter. These affirmations must be signed and returned to headquarters with each year’s charter request. Headquarters will inform clubs that these mandates will become effective with the 2008 charter renewals. "AMA minutes.

This will undo all the other efforts by AMA to try to make itself friendly to the newer generation. The underlying theme behind those who fly electric parkflyers, is their freedom and independence. To say on one hand we want you in AMA, then on the otherhand we want to tell you what to do. That just wont fly with the target group that AMA wants to court.
Representation of the electric groups, flying site assistance, education and leadership in new technology, these are the keys to AMA's future.
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Old 02-25-2007, 04:56 PM
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I believe there is high time for a discussion on modernizing AMA. Technology is outpacing the organization. The growth of electrics and parkfliers just in the last 3 years has been astounding. A few years ago, my tower magazine had electrics buried halfway into it and thee was only 1 or 2 pages. Now thee are sometimes more electric pages than glo, and they are commonly on the front page. In my area, electric flyers number moe than gas or glo combined. Some way we have to make the "sale" that these people need the AMA. The insurance is important, but representation is just as important. Now with the next leap in technology, spread spektrum radios, you no longer need frequency control, thus undermining the need for clubs. I believe an electric only membership with a speed and or weight limitation, at a reduced cost, maybe even without a magazine, is an exellent idea. Quite possibly, the promotion of electric only club charters.
The AMA has no choice but to go this direction, obviously the e-ticket issue is/was far from dead. $58 is too much for these new guys coming in and the ones leaving. Most new e-flyers coming into the hobby have no reason to join the AMA, just like you said, they have to be lured in and a price reduction just for them is the lure they need. Then hopefully one day they move up to the full deal, they will have a choice. The e-flyers are flocking to the stores buying their stuff. When was the last time you saw Radio Shack carry 6 different e-helis, never, until now. Same with Target and Wallyworld. The AMA was real close with the original proposal for the e-ticket but put on the table for people who are already members to decide whether it would work or not. Keeping the magazine for e-flyers is a must, just do every other month. People want to belong to some kind of association whether it's club based or not. Give em some kind of deal or incentive and they will come, proven many times over.

Tiered pricing works in every other known market, why wouldn't it work in the AMA? There was a time you coud walk into a McDonalds and only get a burger and fries. But now you have a choice. They realized that they can offer a variety to please more then one crowd. You have to mold with the times AND your market. There is only one person responsible for letting this crowd stroll right by, DB. He's too focused on reaching out to the AARP for more members.
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Old 02-25-2007, 09:41 PM
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""Tiered pricing works in every other known market, why wouldn't it work in the AMA? There was a time you coud walk into a McDonalds and only get a burger and fries. But now you have a choice. They realized that they can offer a variety to please more then one crowd. You have to mold with the times AND your market. There is only one person responsible for letting this crowd stroll right by, DB. He's too focused on reaching out to the AARP for more members. " Quote STL.


Sadly our clubs are letting us down also. In many clubs electrics are frowned on or just plain ain't wanted. I know of a goup of electric flyers who have an ingrained dislike for the clubs in this area because a few years ago the clubs in this area failed to recognize the latest trend and future.

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Old 02-25-2007, 10:55 PM
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Sadly our clubs are letting us down also. In many clubs electrics are frowned on or just plain ain't wanted. I know of a goup of electric flyers who have an ingrained dislike for the clubs in this area because a few years ago the clubs in this area failed to recognize the latest trend and future.
Good point and your exactly right. The e-ticket proposal was also designed to establish e-clubs for e-flyers as well. They also wanted to target urban regions and parks specifically at a reduced rate and a simpler set of rules to support these efforts in their proposal ... BRILLIANT! The current AMA safety code is complete overkill for e-flyers and they know it. This is why e-flyers are flocking in the other direction against the AMA.
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Old 02-25-2007, 11:21 PM
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Other changes in society; see

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_54...tm.htm#5475702

Texas modelers.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:16 AM
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Let me ramble for a minute on the strides AMA has made for us flyers just in the last couple of years. First off, an intoductory membership of $19.99 for a three month membership to AMA. This is a tremendous tool in the hands of clubs if they would just use it. You would be suprised at the clubs not aware of this. The local clubs need to make the local hobby shop owners aware of this, as many times AMA dues up front pushes people toward the electrics. The local club instead of requiring dues up front could match the AMA into dues and get people to their field for $40..00 bucks! This is a strong selling point for the club. Flight instruction for 3 months for 40 bucks. Better yet if your club really wants to attract the new generation, give a 3 months flight instruction for no dues!.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:24 AM
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I wonder why "they" think that lowering dues would do anything but make current members mad? I'm talking about the AMA and you electric fliers. If these electric fliers don't need or want the AMA, they will not purchase a membership, no matter the cost! And I'll tell you this, if they do this and offer discounts based on your power source, I will drop my membership. Period.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:28 AM
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Another program AMA has is called the Pilot Introductory Program. This program allows clubs to give flight instruction at their fields,under a club approved instructor, to new pilots for the sum of 0000.0000 dollars. Did you know this? I have been in model aviation since before i started first grade, and i didn't know it. Our club secretary was surfing the AMA websight and discovered it. It costs the club 5 bucks to register each instructor pilot, he gets a special AMA card designating him as an instructor. He can then instruct new pilots for a 3 month period, the student is covered by AMA insurance, and it is no cost to the student pilot.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:42 AM
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I think with these kind of strides taken to get in new members, i think we need to quit blaming AMA for all our ills. Certainly there is responsibility there, but clubs have to bear their shame also.
The problem is even with these programs the gulf between AMA and e-fliers still is pretty wide. I have a suggestion to AMA. Let AMA sanctioned clubs hold weekend electric funflys, with the ability to invite the park fliers, allow them to fly and charge a nominal fee, 5 bucks, and let these guys have the opportunity to fly at a sanctioned field. Of the 5 buck fee, let the club heve 1 dollar, and send 4 to the AMA. This will allow clubs to help over come the greates obstacle to getting these guys into the AMA.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:49 AM
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This is where the local clubs and the AMA can change the atmosphere that currently exists among e-flyers. In my experience, electric only takes you so far. then yoyu have to go glo or gas. In our club of 9 members, we are a new club in existence8 months or less, 3 of our new members started out as electric flyers. This market is where the AMA of tomorrow will come from. We have to close this gap.

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Old 02-26-2007, 10:11 AM
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I think Mr. Fulmer above echoes alot of the sentiments of the current AMA membership. I too think that the AMA's days are numbered if they do not make some changes. Spread spectrum technology is a great tool, and was probably developed thru efforts by the AMA, but some see this as a "free for all pass" that allows them to fly anywhere they like without interfering with others. They do not consider the liability issues, but unless I forget, the AMA makes a point of saying they are not an insurance provider. They might want to take another look at that public perception.

As to the electric crowd, I am a member of a club who has an electric field right down the road. The fliers at that field were invited on numerous occasion to join us and be a part of our organization. They did not want to do that because there were fees and an AMA membership required. The question which I ask, and am sure that others out there ask as well, is what do they want and how much do they think they should pay for it? It is not free for me to fly, and why should some one else enjoy the same fruits of our labors without paying for them? This makes no sense. As much as I want them to be a part of our organization, I cannot see us giving it away for nothing and stepping on the backs of those who have built it. I have some electric planes, I also fly gas and turbines, as I see it the current powers that be would like to create a tiered structure for dues based on what we fly. First off, I cannot imagine the chaos it is going to cause at the field trying to keep up with who can fly which and then trying to enforce those rules to keep in the good graces of the AMA. Secondly, most accidents and insurance payouts supposedly are not due to accidents with turbines nor gaint scale planes, yet I can assure you that they are the ones who will pay the highest tier.
Slowly and steadily this organization is going the way of the rest of the nation, toward a socialist empire that wants to throw the baby away with the bathwater.

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Old 02-26-2007, 10:37 AM
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The problem is even with these programs the gulf between AMA and e-fliers still is pretty wide. I have a suggestion to AMA. Let AMA sanctioned clubs hold weekend electric funflys, with the ability to invite the park fliers, allow them to fly and charge a nominal fee, 5 bucks, and let these guys have the opportunity to fly at a sanctioned field. Of the 5 buck fee, let the club heve 1 dollar, and send 4 to the AMA. This will allow clubs to help over come the greates obstacle to getting these guys into the AMA.
That's not a suggestion for the AMA, that's up to the club. Problem is that a new person coming into e-flight is not going to jump right into a rc club, it's a process. First you have to get them in. The intro pilot program is still too high in price for this type of flier. Don't depend ANYTHING on the club to get the new members in, don't depend on them for anything. Just give the ability for these new e-flyers on board some how, some way. They are a HUGE crowd and worth having.

As far as PTulmer leaving the AMA if they come, I guess you just consider that a casulty of war. I'd rather have the fresh blood then the old school mentality.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:04 AM
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ORIGINAL: ptulmer
I wonder why "they" think that lowering dues would do anything but make current members mad? I'm talking about the AMA and you electric fliers. If these electric fliers don't need or want the AMA, they will not purchase a membership, no matter the cost! And I'll tell you this, if they do this and offer discounts based on your power source, I will drop my membership. Period.
Who says they don't need or want it, you? Who really needs the AMA at all? Who NEEDS the EAA? Who needs the NRA? Who needs AAA? You think all members of all these orgs need to be members? No, they join to be part of something. Do people NEED to join the military? No, these are the same type of people, they want to belong. It's not about needing and when it comes down to having to depending on "needing" the AMA, that's when they lose and lose big time. Need should never be the perception to join ANY organziation, it should be a want and only a want.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:13 AM
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ORIGINAL: STLPilot


ORIGINAL: ptulmer
I wonder why "they" think that lowering dues would do anything but make current members mad? I'm talking about the AMA and you electric fliers. If these electric fliers don't need or want the AMA, they will not purchase a membership, no matter the cost! And I'll tell you this, if they do this and offer discounts based on your power source, I will drop my membership. Period.
Who says they don't need or want it, you? Who really needs the AMA at all? Who NEEDS the EAA? Who needs the NRA? Who needs AAA? You think all members of all these orgs need to be members? No, they join to be part of something. Do people NEED to join the military? No, these are the same type of people, they want to belong. It's not about needing and when it comes down to having to depending on "needing" the AMA, that's when they lose and lose big time. Need should never be the perception to join ANY organziation, it should be a want and only a want.
STL,
I know you are a big advocate of this program, but have never really seen your POV. Outline it for me, like I am an outsider, and try to convince me how this would work, and how it should be implemented. I am asking so that I can be persuaded. I know you have a valid argument, but I may be totally misinformed, so educate me. If you could, please give us some things you think would be instrumental in getting these guys in the AMA and keeping them there. I am not being facitious, I am asking out of genuine interest, so don't think that I am patronizing you.
Thanks
Tommy Yates
AMA #1469
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:32 AM
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Certainly, I addressed each point of their proposal. I think the proposal was 99% dead on the mark. Problem is that nobody wants change, they just want new members to magically appear. Also most members are rural, could give a crap about urban fliers. This proposal is a great way to get more minorities involved in aeromodeling.

I am sending this E-mail to you in a request for your assistance. With recent advancements in electric R/C technologies and the advent of the very popular "Park Flyer" aircraft, the demographics of the modeling community are rapidly changing. In order to better serve our members the AMA Executive Council is considering instituting a membership program that is specifically aimed at addressing the needs of the park flyer pilots. We have defined these "park flyer modelers" as having models that weigh 2 pounds or less, do not exceed 60 mph, and do not fly higher than 200 feet.
---Sounds about right for park flyers. You enforce this the same way you enforce the 55lbs rule. Speed will be harder to determine, but payouts only occur when there is an accident and it's been determined that the speed was over 60 mph. This is how all insurance works.

This proposed program would have less insurance coverage, be limited to non-sanctioned events,
---Great, if they want to compete in events in the future they can upgrade, but what percentage of e-flyers would even want to compete? Either way it's a win win for capture.

and include a bimonthly magazine focusing on electric-powered aircraft.
---Terrific and I'm sure all these new companies with e-power products to sell would embrace a niche auddience, that how marketing works, target your audience. Heck they might even get Target, Wallyworld and Radio Shack on board as advertisers if they know how to whale hunt. Bi-monthly, perfect.

Additionally, we view this new membership group as establishing electric-power flying fields in urban areas
---Wow, more then half the population in America and now after 70 years they want a crack at them, brilliant!

and not being part of existing clubs.
---Great sounds like a nice way to develop a true "park" flyer program designed for parks and small areas typically where gas/glow can fly.

We have priced this program at $29.95 per year.
---Half the price, less then half the costs of the AMA full package, sounds more profitable per user to me.

To better assess the views of the membership, the AMA Executive Council is seeking your input in answering the following questions:

1) Given your current involvement in the hobby, would an "electric only" program as described above better meet your needs?
---Who cares, why even ask the members, just put it out there for a test drive for 3 years. What is there to lose? Nothing, only to gain.

2) If such an alternative membership program was offered, would you be inclined to choose this program over your existing full-service membership?
---Maybe maybe not, who cares, they have a choice.

Again, I want to underscore that this is a proposed program.

Thank you for your assistance!

Joyce Hager
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:43 AM
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Like you I saw this as dead before it ever got out of the gate, and I think it was like you pointed out, a marketing error on the part of the AMA. Under a different presentation it would likely not have been met with as much distaste, but most saw it as a something that was being given away and an effort to welcome the thrones of e-fliers into the fold, give them the "same" (though it was not) priviledges as the rest of the membership, at a reduced price.
There needs to be more education of the clubs in this matter. I am in an area with an electric field nearby, and we have a great facility which would meet their needs, but for a multitude of reasons they do not see the need to join us (it may be personalities, or the cost, or a combination, but they do not want to join our AMA club). They are close to us (less than two miles) and some have alluded that there may be interference issues, but none of that has been documented at this point.
I wish you well in your endeavor, and thank you for highlighting some of the points for me. Like others, I am in a rural area, so it is not as big a deal here as it has become for those in the metro areas, but sooner or later it will impact all of us.
Tommy
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:24 PM
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STL, DocYates put it more clearly than I did. I wouldn't be quitting the AMA due to throngs of e-fliers. Our field is full of all types of aircraft and I've had my hands on some e-powered airplanes. I would be leaving the AMA because I no longer want to be a part of that organization. Casualty of war? Hardly. Or maybe one of many. Depends on your point of view, I guess.

While you're at it STL, name one instance that segregation worked in the real world. Tiered membership won't bring in new members, but providing real services with real value for your dues would. It's a shame that they appear to be making progress in this area and this stupid tiered membership idea rears it's ugly head again. My membership isn't under any real threat yet, though.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:50 PM
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While you're at it STL, name one instance that segregation worked in the real world.
What you call segregation I call collaboration, something like the glass half empty half full thing. The AMA will be trying to bring new members in, not seperate them. Having no solution for e-flyers is like making them sit in the back of the bus, thats the real segregation. You got something against giving urban pilots a simple solution to starting their own RC club for e-flyers?

Let's see lets start off with full scale pilots if you want to call it "seperation". We have recreational pilots, sport pilots, private pilolts, instrument, commercial, ATP. Each have their own cost levels to become. A poor person cannot afford to be a commercial pilot, so they have another solution, sport or rec pilot which can still get them up in the air very cheap. But at the end of the day we just call each other "pilots" and ALL COLLABORATE. The Sport ticket alone is a PERFECT example of success offering yet another tier to FS pilots and IT IS EXPLODING, EXPLODING! It has done wonders for the EAA and their members EMBRACE the smart solution.
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:10 PM
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ORIGINAL: STLPilot

Certainly, I addressed each point of their proposal. I think the proposal was 99% dead on the mark. Problem is that nobody wants change, they just want new members to magically appear. Also most members are rural, could give a crap about urban fliers. This proposal is a great way to get more minorities involved in aeromodeling.

I am sending this E-mail to you in a request for your assistance. With recent advancements in electric R/C technologies and the advent of the very popular "Park Flyer" aircraft, the demographics of the modeling community are rapidly changing. In order to better serve our members the AMA Executive Council is considering instituting a membership program that is specifically aimed at addressing the needs of the park flyer pilots. We have defined these "park flyer modelers" as having models that weigh 2 pounds or less, do not exceed 60 mph, and do not fly higher than 200 feet.
---Sounds about right for park flyers. You enforce this the same way you enforce the 55lbs rule. Speed will be harder to determine, but payouts only occur when there is an accident and it's been determined that the speed was over 60 mph. This is how all insurance works.

This proposed program would have less insurance coverage, be limited to non-sanctioned events,
---Great, if they want to compete in events in the future they can upgrade, but what percentage of e-flyers would even want to compete? Either way it's a win win for capture.

and include a bimonthly magazine focusing on electric-powered aircraft.
---Terrific and I'm sure all these new companies with e-power products to sell would embrace a niche auddience, that how marketing works, target your audience. Heck they might even get Target, Wallyworld and Radio Shack on board as advertisers if they know how to whale hunt. Bi-monthly, perfect.

Additionally, we view this new membership group as establishing electric-power flying fields in urban areas
---Wow, more then half the population in America and now after 70 years they want a crack at them, brilliant!

and not being part of existing clubs.
---Great sounds like a nice way to develop a true "park" flyer program designed for parks and small areas typically where gas/glow can fly.

We have priced this program at $29.95 per year.
---Half the price, less then half the costs of the AMA full package, sounds more profitable per user to me.

To better assess the views of the membership, the AMA Executive Council is seeking your input in answering the following questions:

1) Given your current involvement in the hobby, would an "electric only" program as described above better meet your needs?
---Who cares, why even ask the members, just put it out there for a test drive for 3 years. What is there to lose? Nothing, only to gain.

2) If such an alternative membership program was offered, would you be inclined to choose this program over your existing full-service membership?
---Maybe maybe not, who cares, they have a choice.

Again, I want to underscore that this is a proposed program.

Thank you for your assistance!

Joyce Hager


Alot of incredible ideas in this. Its amazing, i haven't even read this and yet, in my posts are very similar.
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:28 PM
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Of course the ideas are amazing, they are designed for a new market in a new millenium and I agree with the AMA's proposal 150% with this smarketing idea.

This proposal was sent out about 6-9 months ago to the members to see how they felt about it. A poor strategy. That's like asking a cow if they want to buy some milk for their calf. If the DB had the guts he would just push it right through. Last I heard DB was working with the AARP to acquire new members. Now there is forward thinking at it's best.

You want to see something else amazing JUGLIFLIER. Click on this [link=http://www.sportpilot.org/]LINK[/link]. About 10 years ago the AOPA, EAA and FAA decided that they needed to do something about the number of pilots that were declining in the USA, very rapidly. They created the Sport Ticket. A half price solution to getting in the air in a certified aircraft. Half the everything. It also has half the restrictions just like e-flyers would have. Well almost 2 years later manufacturers have created over 65 certified LSA aircraft to fit this class and now the class is the hit of every airshow, including OshKosh. I personally talked with Joyce Hagar and she specifically told me that part of the e-ticket proposal was based on the success of the Sport Ticket. However full scale pilots don't tend to discriminate or try to block other pilots from joining the group, they will take everyone and anyone who APPRECIATES the joy of flying and a GATEWAY to bigger and better things WITHING the ORGANIZATIONS. Nothing wrong with trailing off the success of others.

I'm just glad that the AMA DID NOT throw this off their plate yet.
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:49 PM
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Default RE: Points worth Consideration:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

While you're at it STL, name one instance that segregation worked in the real world.
What you call segregation I call collaboration, something like the glass half empty half full thing. The AMA will be trying to bring new members in, not seperate them. Having no solution for e-flyers is like making them sit in the back of the bus, thats the real segregation. You got something against giving urban pilots a simple solution to starting their own RC club for e-flyers?

Let's see lets start off with full scale pilots if you want to call it "seperation". We have recreational pilots, sport pilots, private pilolts, instrument, commercial, ATP. Each have their own cost levels to become. A poor person cannot afford to be a commercial pilot, so they have another solution, sport or rec pilot which can still get them up in the air very cheap. But at the end of the day we just call each other "pilots" and ALL COLLABORATE. The Sport ticket alone is a PERFECT example of success offering yet another tier to FS pilots and IT IS EXPLODING, EXPLODING! It has done wonders for the EAA and their members EMBRACE the smart solution.
How does the FAA compare to the AMA? All that happened is that the certification process changed for full scale opening up a new small airplane market. Since the process for creating e-fields is already in place, all you want is a discount. Creating tiers is separating different aspects of the hobby even further than it already is. Or as I said, it's segregation. Putting the e-fliers at the back of the bus.
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:51 PM
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There is only two things wrong with your thought process in comparing the EAA/FAA venture and the AMA proposal. First off, full scale pilots buy their insurance through a different medium, they do not get their "liability" insurance thru their membership in the EAA. Most R/C pilots, though the AMA would have you believe otherwise, only belong to the AMA for two purposes. The first is that the liability protection it provides (a fallacy, but still good for the price), and second the protection it provides for the landowner.
The last time I checked, the local EAA dues were the same for the pilots who joined, whether they flew a Cessna or a Citation. The dues structure for them is the same, because they get the same benefit. They are purchasing their insuracne somewhere else. In essense we are looking a group who does not offer a tiered membership, but does offer a tier in insurance premiums and services. There is nothing wrong with that, but to compare it the AMA is not the same in my eye. If you are going to start tiering membership in the AMA, then take the insurance equation out of it, and give benefits the same all the way around. In essence that is what the EAA does. I have belonged to the EAA in the past and got the same services as though who flew full scale everyday, which was representation at the meetings, a right to vote and have my voice heard, a magazine, and some other small perks when I attend Oshkosh. I also got a few fliers in the mail on how to save money on my insurance, but nowhere did I get 2 million dollars worth of liability coverage should I crash my Cherokee into a family van.

Though your solution has merit, it is not fair to compare the two entities since one has developed into more of a provider than they want to be at this point.
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:54 PM
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Doc you've missed a lot of my points. You've also only seen the ones that could make this tiered program negative. However this is my favorite passage from the Sport Pilot website, it speaks in droves and sounds very familiar to the AMA's only little problem. If you can't see the similarities between RC to e-power as FS to Sporty's, then there is just no hope to dicuss any further. Well just let the AMA continue to work on the plan on their own. I battled with this issue for a long time, had some good feedback from others. But then of course the ones that had no vision shined like a new penny. I only support what the AMA proposed, I did not come up with this idea.

From Sport Pilot website: EAA knew that the first step in aviation, the private pilot license, was the most difficult step. With drop out rates exceeding 50%, we knew that aviation needed a different approach to becoming a pilot. While the number of active private pilots has declined by almost 30% since 1984 and active student pilots had declined by 42%, EAA recognized that other recreational activities, like motorcycling, have exploded over the same time period. How can this be when learning to fly and being a pilot is such an exhilarating, life changing activity? We determined the root causes were time and money and set about doing something about both.

EAA worked with FAA and industry for over 10 years to create the Sport Pilot/Light Sport Aircraft rule. Flight training was simply too time consuming and too expensive. Sport pilot solves the time/money issue by creating a basic, entry level pilot certificate that is not bogged down with training people for things they may never use while not jeopardizing safety. The result is a pilot certificate that is half the time commitment and half the cost of a private pilot certificate. Based on the initial response to Sport Pilot, we are convinced that aviation now has the opportunity to grow and be competitive with other recreational actives.

And if your a FS pilot and part of the EAA you now EXACTLY how successful the Sport ticket is. They are still pilots in my book and taking the FS industry by storm. They have options now. And why not it's the year 2007, not 1927. They modernized and created a viable solution for everyone. Options to enter and options to advance at a slower pace.
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