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Old 03-18-2007, 09:41 AM
  #1  
Earth Surfer
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Default Super important

I put this in this section because I know all of you visit here frequently. All of you guys--kids and parents. It is urgent that you E-mail or write your senators in opposition of bill S.309. S.309 is a bill that Barabra Boxer (D senator of CA.) is pushing (her committee has E-mailed me several times on my hotmail account), and she has 6 senators behind her at the moment. It is a excessive green movement to clean up our earth and the most aggressive green piece of legislation ever written. Cleaning up the earth is great, but I fear it will also kill all of our small two stroke engine (gas and nitro) in a very short time--may be less than a year. These small two strokes do not have a viable replacement at this time (peds and Remote control models) because they are so small, and they don't add a quantified measurable amount of emissions in our air. A few air line flights probably exceed the amount that all of our small two strokes emit for a year around thew whole world, but our small industries are big targets because they are easy for the greens. Please urge your senators to not let our industries die, epically when there are much bigger fish to fry like the auto, airline and manufacturing industries. I don't care if my car and home is powered by fuel cells in the future--that is fine. But these small engines are such a small part of the problem we may have, it would be a waste to kill them for the amount of damage they may do.

If anybody can make a list of all the senators we have in the US--with at least E-mail addresses, that would be really helpful. We need to stick together more than ever right now, or we will surely get run over like a speed bump. Please everybody--get involved--you will be amazed at how powerful you will feel.

I understand that the state of Mass. already has a bill on the table to ban the sale of all two stroke engines (gas and Nitro included). If that passes, and all states follow--we may not be able to get a Zen or CY engine in this country, and those engines may be gone forever.

It is time to kick some green butt guys!!!---lets get em!!!

RCU--can ylou please send this to all of your members? I feel it is important if we want our hobbies to exist. thank you so much RCU.

Doug
ESP

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Old 03-18-2007, 10:01 AM
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Doug
I live in MAss. do you know what bill that is that would ban the sale of 2 strokes?

Tahnks

Chirs
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Old 03-18-2007, 10:09 AM
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Default RE: Super important

Regarding ".......but I fear it will also kill all of our small two stroke engine (gas and nitro) in a very short time--may be less than a year."

I scanned through the summary of S.309 and found no mention of small two stroke engines. Can you cite the portion(s) of the bill that lead to your fears?

Abel
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Old 03-18-2007, 10:35 AM
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Default RE: Super important

I understand that the state of Mass. already has a bill on the table to ban the sale of all two stroke engines (gas and Nitro included). If that passes, and all states follow--we may not be able to get a Zen or CY engine in this country, and those engines may be gone forever.
I buy lots of stuff direct from Hong Kong now, half the price or less, shipping less then from Canada and faster then UPS ground.

And if your states are dumb enough to ban 2st motors sales to prevent polluting the air, instead we'll just pollute the land with our lipo and nimh batteries.

And I guess they never heard about this new thing called the internet where you can buy things tax free and sometimes free shipping too. I wouldn't worry too much about this.
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Old 03-18-2007, 02:56 PM
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Didn't go thought this a few years back?
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Old 03-18-2007, 04:58 PM
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Snowmobiles, OHVs, outboard motors, chainsaws, but to name a few! There should be multitudes of people against thsi bill! Then to top it all off, nothing said or done about where pollution is really coming from, which is the automobile. I think something needs to be done, we've just to go after the real causes.
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Old 03-18-2007, 06:21 PM
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ORIGINAL: Mode One

Snowmobiles, OHVs, outboard motors, chainsaws, but to name a few! There should be multitudes of people against thsi bill! Then to top it all off, nothing said or done about where pollution is really coming from, which is the automobile. I think something needs to be done, we've just to go after the real causes.
Did you actually read the text of the bill? Automobile emissions are central to it, as are carbon-based fuel generating plants. If "Snowmobiles, OHVs, outboard motors, chainsaws" were specifically mentioned, I must have missed some fine print.

Abel
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Old 03-18-2007, 10:22 PM
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Default RE: Super important

Ask Barbara Boxer about how many miles she logs per year in a private jet. Al Gores' personal electricity consumption would light 10 average sized villages in India. Stings' wife takes their private jet on 80 mile hops to get her nails done. The ones who are pushing the hardest for reform are some of the worst offenders. Just like a page out of, "Animal Farm", when the rich pigs post a sign that says, "All men are created equal, but some are more equal than others".
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:43 AM
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ORIGINAL: abel_pranger


ORIGINAL: Mode One

Snowmobiles, OHVs, outboard motors, chainsaws, but to name a few! There should be multitudes of people against thsi bill! Then to top it all off, nothing said or done about where pollution is really coming from, which is the automobile. I think something needs to be done, we've just to go after the real causes.
Did you actually read the text of the bill? Automobile emissions are central to it, as are carbon-based fuel generating plants. If "Snowmobiles, OHVs, outboard motors, chainsaws" were specifically mentioned, I must have missed some fine print.

Abel
No, I didn't, don't have time for reading garbage and was only commenting on what a "tough row to hoe" this legislation (if it truly exists) would be to get past all the two cycle users and manufacturers! Also, in comparison to our infintisimal amount of polution created with both glow and gas engines, this is pretty stupid. If you've read the bill, please enlighten us with your wisdom!
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Old 03-19-2007, 09:44 AM
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ORIGINAL: Mode One


No, I didn't, don't have time for reading garbage and was only commenting on
This is the problem across the board in our political process. People don't even bother to get even the slightest grasp of the actual facts before sitting at their keyboard and posting their thoughts and comments on something that they don't know the first thing about.

Kind of like the fine folks in Congress who took away many of our Civil Rights in the "Patriot Act" without even bothering to actually read it.

We truly do get the government we deserve.
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:22 AM
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The other part of what my $58 does.
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Old 03-19-2007, 12:31 PM
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ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

ORIGINAL: Mode One
Snowmobiles, OHVs, outboard motors, chainsaws, but to name a few! There should be multitudes of people against thsi bill! Then to top it all off, nothing said or done about where pollution is really coming from, which is the automobile. I think something needs to be done, we've just to go after the real causes.
Did you actually read the text of the bill? Automobile emissions are central to it, as are carbon-based fuel generating plants. If "Snowmobiles, OHVs, outboard motors, chainsaws" were specifically mentioned, I must have missed some fine print.
Abel
First, I have not read the bill, however any bill against the free choice of any use of any equipment by any individual goes against my grain, and if that is a Federal Law Proposal sponsored by any varmint labeled 'democrat' then I am deathly against it. By the time it gets through the congress, it will have so many "leeches" hanging on that every liberal pig trough along with half the republican's pig troughs will be running over the brim.

Remember back in 1913 when a man earning $2500 a year had a decent, albeit modest, but above average standard of living. (OK, I'm not that old either!) Even in 1939, a family of 2-4 could rent an apartment and own a car with that income.
In 1913 the Federal Income Tax rate was 1% on taxable net income above $3,000 ($4,000 for married couples), less deductions and exemptions. It rose to a rate of 7% on incomes above $500,000.
In those days, $500,000 was equal to at least 5,000,000 or more today.

Once any kind of those restrictive bills is passed, it is like flood water through a trench, it just gets bigger and erodes everything in its path.

In addition, think just who is backing those bills. Get rid of the 2 strokes. Then all have to change to 4 strokes at a MUCH higher cost. No more 2 stroke $weed-eater at $40-60 at Walmart. Now they are back to $150-200. Then the ever lasting valve problems with the 4 strokers on a weed-eater at hard work. More throw-aways and more new ones sold.

No one said much when Ralph Nader was yelling $afety all over. No one paid attention to the fact that General Motors, et. al. were financing his windy claims because every legislated $afety device cost you and I 10 fold more $$ on those new cars. He-l, my new truck has this fancy key that I cannot duplicate to have one in my billfold if I lose my main key because of the code stuff it has. An extra costs $200. All this so-called $afety $tuff is simply to line the pockets of those idiots you send to DC to make life miserable for you, along with the auto co. executives. You must love it.

Sit on your butt and watch it happen like you do at AMA election time.
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:53 PM
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any bill against the free choice of any use of any equipment by any individual goes against my grain
How about a home built, personal use nuclear bomb?
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Old 03-19-2007, 03:45 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hossfly

First, I have not read the bill, however any bill against the free choice of any use of any equipment by any individual goes against my grain, and if that is a Federal Law Proposal sponsored by any varmint labeled 'democrat' then I am deathly against it. By the time it gets through the congress, it will have so many "leeches" hanging on that every liberal pig trough along with half the republican's pig troughs will be running over the brim.
Hoss-

All laws limit an individual's freedom of choice. It's puzzling that you generally come across as a law 'n order sort of guy, yet there are frequent undertones that say you are really an anarchist at heart. Well I am too, though we call ourselves libertarians these days. I think there may be hope for you.

On this particular issue, you haven't read the bill, but you're agin' it because it has the name of the poster child for the fringe Left on it. Fine by me, there's a rational reason. Rational reason is lacking in the responders that bought into the troll posted by the OP as gospel, rather than making any slight effort to verify.
BTW, S.309 would exempt residents of the Republic of Texas from federal taxation, and bans the sale of horse meat for human consumption. check it out yourself.

Abel


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Old 03-19-2007, 05:11 PM
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ORIGINAL: Phaedrus-MMVI

ORIGINAL: Mode One


No, I didn't, don't have time for reading garbage and was only commenting on
This is the problem across the board in our political process. People don't even bother to get even the slightest grasp of the actual facts before sitting at their keyboard and posting their thoughts and comments on something that they don't know the first thing about.

Kind of like the fine folks in Congress who took away many of our Civil Rights in the "Patriot Act" without even bothering to actually read it.

We truly do get the government we deserve.
Phaedrus, Obviously you don't read very well! I'm saying I think the same thing, people are reacting here, to unfounded information and innuendo!

Thanks for the public chastising, though! I take back any kind words I may have ever said about you and certainly will never make that mistake in the future!

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Old 03-19-2007, 05:17 PM
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Default RE: Super important

Well I went through it and aside from being terrified at the next layer of pork I see our government gleefully jumping into (see section on special credits given to whomever we feel like because you kiss our (congress's) butts in a perfunctory fashion)

This was all I can find in relation to engines "`(4) to establish a motor vehicle global warming pollution emission requirement"

Nowhere else could I seem them mention engines unless it was to define the size which was the vehicle weight over 8500 lbs etc.

They even list a schedule of how far reaching this item is in terms of years down the road (2050) and it still never takes into account small engines.

So a big raspberry to the OP. C'mon Chicken Little, just where a helmet.


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Old 03-19-2007, 06:00 PM
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Abel:
BTW, S.309 would exempt residents of the Republic of Texas from federal taxation, and bans the sale of horse meat for human consumption. check it out yourself.
Hey Thanks, Abel for pointing that out for me. Guess even the worst has some good in it!
Besides the tax thing, I can live with people eating horse meat if they wish to. Some people cringe at the thought of eating any meat. One of my Grand-Daughters is a strict vegetarian, but I lover her dearly. Some people don't like venison, but I do. Now I grew up a country boy in south-east TX, yet I never ate any raccoon, opposum, or rattlesnake and I don't expect to. So if anyone wants some horse-steak, then go for it, but please don't be offended if I make mine beef, as I would just have to offend you! Oh, BTW, ol' 'gator-tail is pretty good eatin'. [X(]

stl:
How about a home built, personal use nuclear bomb?
As long as they only hurt themselves! [>:] That would be of 'super importance'!
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Old 03-19-2007, 07:25 PM
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i spoke to my congressman today and he said there going to ban air in july. so no more breathing. they banned drugs 91 years ago dosent mean you cant get it. i hope they ban everything in the world. i dont care and never will. too bad for me.
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:13 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hossfly

<snip> Now I grew up a country boy in south-east TX, yet I never ate any raccoon, opposum, or rattlesnake and I don't expect to.
Never ate any 'possum? Man, you've missed out on some really terrific social encounters.

Abel
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Old 03-24-2007, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: Super important

I still cannot find the actual wording to the bill, but according to FOX (gee, there's a real reliable source eh?) that there will not be any regulation of goods and services, ie: banning two stroke engines, but a "carbon based emmission tax" will be placed an ALL emitters of carbon monoxide.

I work in the steel industry, and there are rumors that if this bill passes, we may see a 8% tax increase to steel producers. Add this to oil and gas producers and see how much of added taxation we will see in order to own and use a car. And not just to the car itself, but to anything made of carbon based products (steel and plastic) which is about 100% of everything we consume.

In otherwords, the Dems eyeing to tax the fattest part of our economic steak.
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Old 03-24-2007, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: Super important

to see the text of the bill, all 10,000 words + of it, go here:
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c110query.html
In the "enter search" box, type in sf 309 and then select search by bill number.

This way, one can actually read the bill themself rather than listen to the fair and balanced view found at Fox. But I imagine Fox is the primary news source for many here, judging by the comments I've read on this thread so far!
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Old 03-27-2007, 09:42 PM
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I read the bill.

Note to chicken little "The sky is not falling!"
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Old 04-23-2007, 06:04 PM
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Default RE: Super important

The liberal agenda is much worse than loosing our 2 stroke engines. I'd worry more about the fact that people like Boxer want each of us on the same pay rate, home...etc..... All the worst parts of socialism. 2 Strokes are the least of our worries.
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:12 AM
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Almost a month between posts, I thought this one had been laid to rest! Yep, the liberals are the scourge of the earth and their agenda to clean up the environment is a "Commy Plot" to take over the world!
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:27 AM
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I think this thread has run it's course...Oh Moderator...Modrator...we have another dead horse for you!!!
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