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Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

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Old 03-27-2007, 03:29 PM
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Default Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

Our club secretary called me today to tell me that the advertising for our float fly in Model Aviation went up from $12.00 for two months last year to $45.00 for one month this year. So much for the AMA taking care of its own. I feel that as a club we promote the AMA as well as ourselves when we hold sanctioned events. I understand that magazine advertising costs money, but this is a ridiculous price increase. But what choice do you have: So many of us look in the back of the mag for those events. They have us over a barrel, pay or don't advertise. Thank goodness for sites such as this one that keep the best interests of the modelers at heart. Thanks RCU!!
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Old 03-27-2007, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

there are ads in the mag??


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Old 03-27-2007, 05:42 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

Wonder if they raised the rates for commercial advertising? If not they really need too. Why are we footing the bill for it? It really should carry its own weight and maybe (GOD Forbid) make a buck or two.
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:00 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

uMMM... aLL sanctioned clubs were told of the cost increase last year in December. Our club offset the cost by putting in all out ads before the increase, but the increase should be No surprise to any club. We were all told!!!

Sorry to side with the AMA on this one, but if you are just finding out now you're a little behind the times......We have known for 5 months......
I think you're executive board needs to pay closer attention tot he correspondance with the AMA
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:26 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

I dont think just cause we were notifyed 5 mo. ago about a large
increase, makes it OK.

It will result in less ads (which are info about hobby events) and makes
the magazine less useful.

Can the ulgy plane build articles, apply the money saved there to
more useful areas of the mag.
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:32 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

For the past 7+/- years I have been preaching here and via mailings to clubs, and via self-paid advertisements in other magazines how AMA's MA undercuts the other magazines in commercial advertising rates, thus removing any other magazine from supporting AMA programs to any degree other than the ads AMA buys in those magazines.
There is sufficient evidence to well substantiate the charge that AMA / MA serves one purpose and and that purpose is to become the surviving major publication for model aviation within the United States.

In addition I have tried to bring your attention to the fact that by AMA's own financial reports, the per member production and distribution expense -- THE TOTAL LOSS TO AMA FOR THE COST OF THE IRC UNRELATED BUSINESS MAGAZINE MODEL AVIATION -- EXCEEDS THE COST OF THE LIABILITY INSURANCE EXPENSE BY ABOUT 30%. Yet when AMA screams about expense, what do you hear about?

The 2006 audit report has not yet been observed therefore the above remarks favored the 2004-5 reports.

Had I not raised some very big complaints, starting more complaining, if you review the proceedings of a year or so ago, you will find that even the listings in the event section were also scheduled for an exceptional "Tax" from AMA.

As I keep telling you AMA needs a real Leader, one that doesn't believe in screwing the troops. Why don't you nominate someone right now that can do the job? Do you know how to nominate a person for national AMA Office. PMs allowed.

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Old 03-28-2007, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

The AMA is not the only one doing this, they are trying to FORCE members to start utilizing the website. The AMA did not invent this idea, they adopted it. Welcome to the year 2007 AMA! Now the e-ticket!

This is the same tactic Guiliani did to clean up New York, it was no magic trick. Raise the prices of fines and penalties almost triple in one swift blow. This forced people from commiting more crimes, very quickly, while at the same time rasing the revenues for a new and improved police force. They killed 2 birds with one stone. Drive people to the website and make more money for the organization, brilliant. Hey maybe if they drive more numbers to the website they can sell some web ads .... hmmmm .... that would be very 1995 of them.
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:06 AM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

e-ticket-you just love to keep beating that dead horse!
Get over it, like the horse, the e-ticket is DEAD, and for very good reasons.
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:10 AM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

Funny isn't a new version of the proposal being pitched for April? Or didn't you get that memo?
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

The thing I think is HI_____LARIOUS is that this is exactly what I told you would happen Hoss in another thread.
Simply raising the rates (which is exactly what you have been tooting the horn for) without adding value to the magazine will simply bring the above types of responses.

This Magazine is a FREE PUBLICATION. Tha majority of it's readers did not purchase the magazine and therefore that one item alone waters down the message of the product.
When people choose to purchase the product, the message is more effective.

If you don't believe that, well sorry, not my issue. It's simply the fact.
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

I'll let them list our next event and all they have to do is send me $10 for my time filling out the paperwork. Most events in our area are coordinated without any assistance from the AMA. So far the only thing the AMA has ever had to do with our club was when Tony went to our field on a week day. No one was there, but he called the club Pres with his concerns about the runway at the end of our field. He pretty much told Tony a bunch of bull just to get him gone without being rude. I guess Tony was going to get our charter revoked if it had been an active runway? Thanks for all the help AMA.

Hossfly, I don't want to nominate anyone for AMA pres. I have every intention of voting for Dave Mathewson and will be encouraging my fellow club members to do the same. As far as Tony goes, I don't know anyone that has the necessary AMA credentials to be nominated, but will be voting for whoever runs against him. AMA pretty much stacks the deck when it comes to their nominating process.
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:36 AM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

Hey PT,
I watch the 1/2A thread and I think we have corresponded a time or two...
Does the Tony you are referring to have a last name that begins with an "S"?
Own a radio repair shop?
Thanks!
John L. Konneker
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

I was talking about our DVP, Tony Stillman. Does he own a radio shop? The story is a little longer, but it is almost unbelievable. I still haven't figured out what he meant to do if it had been an active runway. Shut us down? Fat chance! The city wants us there.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!


ORIGINAL: STLPilot

Funny isn't a new version of the proposal being pitched for April?

Man, I hope not.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:37 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!


ORIGINAL: ptulmer

I was talking about our DVP, Tony Stillman. Does he own a radio shop? The story is a little longer, but it is almost unbelievable. I still haven't figured out what he meant to do if it had been an active runway. Shut us down? Fat chance! The city wants us there.
Tony was doing his job. The AMA cannot close your field, but they will pull their charter if the airfield doesn't meet their standards. Its about the same thing as an insurance company pulling its policy if a company doesn't maintain their fire sprinklers. They have every right.
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:34 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

SP, considering the there are clubs that exist at the end of real airports, I tend to think he was just flexing his authority in front of the peons. Yes, I just attended a fly-in at one. There was full scale traffic all day. The strip at the end of our field doesn't even have a grass strip. Just a flat piece for emergency use.
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Old 03-28-2007, 04:12 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

"This Magazine is a FREE PUBLICATION."
Nothing free about it OUR dues support it. It pisses me off that the AMA doesn't even try to get it to break even.
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Old 03-29-2007, 07:24 AM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!


ORIGINAL: ptulmer

SP, considering the there are clubs that exist at the end of real airports, I tend to think he was just flexing his authority in front of the peons. Yes, I just attended a fly-in at one. There was full scale traffic all day. The strip at the end of our field doesn't even have a grass strip. Just a flat piece for emergency use.

Those fields have an SOP for operating near full sized aircraft. IMO the AMA should pull your charter if you are operating right next to an active runway, even with a good SOP, but the AMA does not work that way. Most likely if the AMA should pull your charter the city would not allow you to fly.
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Old 03-29-2007, 07:56 AM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!


ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

<snip> IMO the AMA should pull your charter if you are operating right next to an active runway, even with a good SOP, but the AMA does not work that way. Most likely if the AMA should pull your charter the city would not allow you to fly.

Wow! That's the same attitude that Mr. S came here with. You're welcome to your opinion, but I certainly hope you never get a majority on your side. Mainly because you made that statement in complete ignorance. That field and ours are about twenty years old and nobody has even had a close call. The layout makes it quite easy to see a full scale on approach and you have more than enough time and air to get out of the way or land. The emergency strip at our field has been used twice in as many years by crop dusters. We know when they are coming and can use the time for repairs and improvements. You seem a little intolerant of our right to fly. What's up there?

Yes, if the AMA pulled our charter we would be suspended from flying until we could afford the insurance on our on. Of course, if you added up all the dues collected by the AMA in our club, we could save money going that route.

What this comes down to is this: Aside from the fact that our club doesn't benefit from being chartered, now we gotta pay to have the events (which also benefit the AMA) listed in the magazine that we also have to pay for because it's being mismanaged. . .
Huh, I must be missing something.
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:40 AM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

Wow! That's the same attitude that Mr. S came here with. You're welcome to your opinion, but I certainly hope you never get a majority on your side. Mainly because you made that statement in complete ignorance. That field and ours are about twenty years old and nobody has even had a close call. The layout makes it quite easy to see a full scale on approach and you have more than enough time and air to get out of the way or land. The emergency strip at our field has been used twice in as many years by crop dusters. We know when they are coming
I said they should close fields near an ACTIVE airfield, especially without an SOP. As you said you are next to an inactive airfield. However I do think the AMA should be talking to the FAA to get rid of the 400 feet limit rule, except when near airports, and remove (or at least remove their charter) from all flying sites near and ACTIVE airport. Especially those without an SOP. The FAA should show all fields on their navigaiton maps, just as they do with parachute and sailplane sites.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:58 AM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

It pisses me off that the AMA doesn't even try to get it to break even.
Who said it doesn't? What do you think the $58 goes towards all towards the insurance? Do you guys know how to actually read a profit and loss statement all the way through? The magazine is part of a bundled service.

There is sufficient evidence to well substantiate the charge that AMA / MA serves one purpose and and that purpose is to become the surviving major publication for model aviation within the United States.
Power to them. It's funny how much you rag on MA about trying to raise funds and then when they do it ... well you know what I mean. How do you know this is not part of the long term strategy for a bigger plan? I certainly see that in the making.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:12 AM
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ORIGINAL: STLPilot
I certainly see that in the making.

Better get the glass cleaner out for your crystal ball.
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Old 03-29-2007, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

Umm well actually it is considered a free publication. This term applies to a publication when the majority (vast majority in this case) of its circulation is not paid for voluntarily.

If they dropped the magazine tomorrow from your AMA dues you would still have to pay in order to fly each year and I would bet that the dues would not drop in price in any significant way. Although its an assumption, I would think that the insurance costs more then we might suspect.

The other likely reality is that if the magazine were to stand on it's own, meaning it was no longer part of the AMA bundle, it would probably fail unless it was revamped in a major way.

This is what I was trying to get across to Hoss, but he always seems to ignore that and just stays away from threads where this has come up.

The Magazine would be perfectly able to be a profitable entity if it was changed from it's current structure. As it stands it is perfectly viable as a bundled offering and will continue to be just fine. To expect it to morph into something different overnight is asking for a change thats not possible.
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Old 03-29-2007, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: Advertising Costs Out Of Sight!!!

If they dropped the magazine tomorrow from your AMA dues you would still have to pay in order to fly each year and I would bet that the dues would not drop in price in any significant way.
Perhaps, but then the value of the AMA would decrease. There are hardly any organizations, especially ones with over 160k members, that does not have a publication, which is NOT a requirement. You think they are all self supporting??? The magazine is not only a revenue generator for the AMA as a whole, but also a value and information generator. Without MA costs of publishing AMA information to it's members would be a lot more then the so called "loss" of the MA.

Although its an assumption, I would think that the insurance costs more then we might suspect.
You can see the numbers right on the AMA's website. They are pretty cut and dry. The insurance only accounts for about $10 of your $58 membership.

The Magazine would be perfectly able to be a profitable entity if it was changed from it's current structure.
How?
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:27 PM
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ORIGINAL: Liberator

Umm well actually it is considered a free publication. This term applies to a publication when the majority (vast majority in this case) of its circulation is not paid for voluntarily.

If they dropped the magazine tomorrow from your AMA dues you would still have to pay in order to fly each year and I would bet that the dues would not drop in price in any significant way. Although its an assumption, I would think that the insurance costs more then we might suspect.

The other likely reality is that if the magazine were to stand on it's own, meaning it was no longer part of the AMA bundle, it would probably fail unless it was revamped in a major way.

This is what I was trying to get across to Hoss, but he always seems to ignore that and just stays away from threads where this has come up.

The Magazine would be perfectly able to be a profitable entity if it was changed from it's current structure. As it stands it is perfectly viable as a bundled offering and will continue to be just fine. To expect it to morph into something different overnight is asking for a change thats not possible.
Liberator, back in my mid-twenties, as a young USAF Captain, I attended one of the USAF Professional Schools. Some of the things we got into were somewhat rather deep in the management and research development areas. One subject that, at first, was very puzzling to me, and took a while for me to develop for myself to grasp was a simple statement that, "One cannot argue, debate or even simply discuss with those of total ignorance." You are the epitome of that subject's thesis.[>:]
AMA's MA can easily be a profitable magazine or at worst a stand-alone break-even non-related business entity.

In the last AMA Presidential race, one of the questions I ask Mr. Mathewson related to his concern with MA as it stands in the loss column. He stated effectively that the EC/ED hired people to run the magazine and therefore those people should be allowed to do as they see fit. Yes, as I have said, and as even d-stl now alludes to, there is definitely a bigger plan down the road, which as I see in my opinion, is not to serve the sport of aeromodeling FIRST.
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