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Found in the Washington Post

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Old 05-01-2007, 04:25 PM
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Stubborn Mule
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Default Found in the Washington Post

Look what the Washington Post printed Monday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042901357.html

Isn't this one of the better known clubs or something?

Thoughts? Comments?

The Mule
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:45 PM
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JUGFLIER
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

Up untill a few months ago we had horses in the back yard. We flew foamies over their head all the time. These horses will get used to the noise and after a while will ignore them. Frankly if a horse will spook at a plastic bag, that is a horse i would not keep. there are good horses and bad ones, any horse that can't adapt to their surroundings is not a good one.
Btw who do these horse people think they are, that all that public land is their own private playground? If i was over the parks dept. i would just tell them that if they can't share, they are out.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:37 PM
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Jim Thomerson
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

I have flown control line airplanes, with and without mufflers, near horses and been ignored. On the other hand at a place where we flew in Illinois, a lady a half mile away complained we were scaring her horses.

We had a horse that was gun shy. You could shoot a 22 a hundred yards away and he would go crazy.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:52 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

Somewhere there is an article that was written by a gentleman who had a PhD in some form of raptor work and wrote a very indept letter concerning wild birds and models. He pretty much blew the top off the misconception of models and birds living side by side. Not sure where it is, but is out there.

Marc
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:23 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

Heres what I put in the Posts comment section under the story, but they probably won't print it though

We here in the Mo. Ozarks have a model plane airfield that is right next to a farm with horses an cows an neither ever even look up to the planes or bother to even stop eating when we fly over their heads. Also, all of the birds around here don't seem to mind the planes one bit
Most "equestrians" are a bunch of stuck up cry babys anyway, they wouldn't know a real Cowboy if he bit'em.

Ron B.
Warsaw, Missouri
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:27 AM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

Not just to "The Toolman" but to all; No matter how you wish, want, feel or whatever you do to crumble the cookie, those people that own land and raise, deal, and show, race, or whatever with horses and buy, sell, trade and/or have as a hobby, sport, trade, and/or business associated with the equestrian breeding, profession, or sport generally take their endeavors very seriously and they generally have a serious amount of money invested therein with a willingness to invest much more.
These people do not worry about $50 club dues, discounts at a local shop, and $58 AMA dues. I have a son-in-law that owns a company that serves a market for these people nationwide and several international markets, plus sets up shows throughout the Eastern and Southeastern half of the US These people have the $$$$ They are like a woman going to a party. They need a new set of jumps for each show like a woman needs a new dress. His factory runs almost 7/24.

These people pay serious taxes to local political groups that fund local parks, etc. They are very powerful when election times come. These things get the attention of local politicians. All your emotional rants don't buy anyone anything.

Model airplane fliers are still recognized as simply big boys with big noisy toys. You sit at your small groups and stay away from "AMA Politics". You don't demand a strong AMA therefore AMA has never stood up and fought for your national recognition as real Sportsmen engaged in a most worthwhile and educational recreational sport/hobby. Each time a great flying facility goes under, just YOU look in the mirror, smile and say, "I HELPED"

Money and Power will win the battles. However with taking an interest in AMA, by nominating new candidates to the elective positions now open for nomination, knowing your AMA District Vice Presidents, not by what they say, but by their voting record, and WHAT THEY DON'T SAY!!! Read page the May MA pg. 167. Get on that ballot if you're in District I, V, IX, or nominate someone that will. If you know someone that is eligible for President, nominate him. I am. I have been nominated. I need many more to get on the ballot. Only 3 allowed. Many are in line. I'm probably the only one not crowned a "good ol' boy".
My primary objective is just what I said above: NATIONAL recognition of model aviation and I have several plans of how to do it with very minimal expense and NO paid advertising.

With national recognition, I think AMA can then supply leverage for local Clubs against the politicians at the local levels for flying facilities. Right now it's about all the hope modelers have to obtain and/or keep facilities in the really urban areas.
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:11 AM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

It won't take too long to settle.

Within a short time, the planes will be gone if
they continue to fly gas or glow.

Once the complaints start the writing is on the wall.
The neighbors will want the planes gone and nothing less.

Been there, done that.


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Old 05-02-2007, 07:24 AM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

I find it strange that most likely the very people complaining about the "noise" from model aircraft probably use a device to mow their grass that is considerably "noisier".

Noise is one of the major contributors to the loss of many a fine flying sites, but an issue that can be dealt with and overcome.

When was the last time you were in your car, waiting at a stop light, and somone several cars back had their sound system cranked to the extent that it caused the rear view mirror in your car to vibrate? Just ain't fair, is it?

I guess noise is noise but the noise of a good running four stroke is music to my ears. The music that makes my rear view mirror vibrate, well, that's just plain noise.
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Old 05-02-2007, 08:22 AM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

Money and Power will win the battles. However with taking an interest in AMA, by nominating new candidates to the elective positions now open for nomination, knowing your AMA District Vice Presidents, not by what they say, but by their voting record, and WHAT THEY DON'T SAY!!! Read page the May MA pg. 167. Get on that ballot if you're in District I, V, IX, or nominate someone that will. If you know someone that is eligible for President, nominate him. I am. I have been nominated. I need many more to get on the ballot. Only 3 allowed. Many are in line. I'm probably the only one not crowned a "good ol' boy". My primary objective is just what I said above: NATIONAL recognition of model aviation and I have several plans of how to do it with very minimal expense and NO paid advertising.
I really doubt that any leadership is going to change how noise levels at a field. Nor do I feel that more exposure to RC will help improve the situation, that will only increase the membership. The solution is that same thing we are going through with the fuel crisis, new alternative methods. AMA members should just focus more on electric powerplants and the more we buy the lower the prices will go on these technologies. Why try to fight the landowners when we can beat them with technology without any battles.

One trick I can't wait to see, if you become president, is the National recognition of model aviation with minimal expense and no paid advertising. Didn't you just say that it takes money and power win battles in the opening of your campaign statement? Sorry to say, you're 100% right. It takes money to create an image too Hoss, lots of it. Start finding revenue streams to find these growth efforts, that's what you'll need, so let's hear em.

I'm really looking forward to this campaign thing picking up. I'm rooting for ya! Got the popcorn ready to read all these wonderful plans you have, hope they are truly elctrified.
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:01 AM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post


ORIGINAL: Stubborn Mule

Look what the Washington Post printed Monday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042901357.html

Isn't this one of the better known clubs or something?

Thoughts? Comments?

The Mule

Yes, this is one of the larger clubs in our area.

There is more than is conveyed in the article, such as the horse folks who want the land already have exclusive use of the Manassas Battlefield park for horse use. No kite flying, no frisbees, etc are allowed, but the horses are. The property in the article backs up to the battflefield where the horse owners pretty much have free reign.
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

Welcome to the world that we here in Oregon have lived with for some time. State land use laws make it extremely difficult to attain a flying site and along with development restrictions our available land is scarce. Localy, some cities have put bans on any flying (even electric) in city parks. The May issue of AMA has an article on the TEAM site at the Evergreen Aviation Musuem, one of the few new flying sites. Rest assured it took hours and hours of negotiations with local authorities to get the required permits to get that site. Some berry farms hire RCer's to fly when the crops are ripening, doing low passes and aerobatics to chase the birds away, but after a short time the birds realize the planes are nothing more than a nusiance. It really does come down to who has the greatest influence and, of course, money that will decide who wins this battle.
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Old 05-02-2007, 11:15 AM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

I'd start looking for a new field ............or get a horse.


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Old 05-02-2007, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post


ORIGINAL: Roby

I'd start looking for a new field ............or get a horse.


Roby

This is the new field they are trying to obtain. The club in question lost their field of 30+ years to development.

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Old 05-02-2007, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

I understand that this is the proposed site for new field.

It looks like it isn't going to happen at the planned location.

I'm suggesting that they keep looking for another location
where the club might be better received.


Like I said, been there, done that .
A nasty reminder that when your a land begger there is no
equity in being in one location for many years.


Roby






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Old 05-02-2007, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

Gotcha, sorry I misunderstood what you were saying.

The club has been, and continues to, search for other options for several years prior to losing their other field. Unfortunately, the cost of land in the area makes it unlikely for finding something considered to be within in reasonable driving distance for most of their members. Land in the DC area can easily exceed $1-2 million/acre.

(Imagine how many national flying sites AMA could put around the country if they hadn't sold the Reston VA site when they did...)

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Old 05-02-2007, 01:56 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

I have noticed four major threats to model aviation.

Development

The American tradition here is centered around the ideal of ''elbow room''. Since the development of the automobile, population density of American cities has gone down. This causes urban/suburban sprawl that eats up land that could be used for other things.

Golf

Around here it costs between $50 and $200 to play 18 holes. One field around here charges $100 a year for membership and a $100 initiation fee. Yet, many modelers will squak like mad over these kind of rates. Well, get a clue. LAND IS VALUABLE. If I have a piece of land with a toy runway that will generate $100/year from 150 model flyers, or the same peice of land with a big lawn, and some trees that will bring in $100/DAY from 100 glofers. . . Well, do the math.

I would gladly pay 20 bucks for a weekend of flying if thats what it takes.

Horses

This is a problem out here in California too. This is one where we will just have to learn to work with these people. First, don't go off thinking anyone can deal with these people. The club needs to have a small group of tactfull club members do deal with the horse people, and keep the hot heads on a short leash. If there is a lawyer in your club, he would be a good candidate.

Wildlife Conservation

I personaly do not mind this. I enjoy hiking in the wilderness too. Like the horse thing, this does not have to kill model aviation. The only thing I have a problem with here is seeing some knucklehead who thinks chasing birds with his model is great fun. Every time I see this I have to cringe. Any one who does this is screaming ''Take my flying field. please!''
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:27 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

I recommended that they all build rc Pegasus, that way they can fly RC AND be accepted by the horse owners.
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

At our field you have to chase off the birds or you cant keep track of you plane. lol The idea of planes scaring birds is just ridiculous. Sunday when we were flying we had doves and buzzards and howkks flying under our planes while we were hovering less than 20 feet over the runway. By the way who cleans up the horse crap on the National Battlefield? I as a US citizen am appolled at the horse crap being dropped on hallowed ground.. places where brave americans shed their blood. And the respect these horse people have to desecrate these areas with their selfishness by riding over hallowed ground and allowing their horse to just crap on it...... I FOR ONE AM OUTRAGED.. see its not hard to put them on the defensive.
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:00 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post


ORIGINAL: JUGFLIER

The idea of planes scaring birds is just ridiculous.
Where we fly out here, pigeons and such are not an issue. We do not have them around the flying fields since they like to hang out in urban centers like the flying rats they are. We get occasional eagles and hawks around here, and believe me, models do not scare them. However, some irresponsible individuals think it is sporting to harrass them.

We need to be concious of our image. Bullying the wild life doesn't help.

As far as birds attacking models. I have only seen two species do this, and it is very rare. Crows will sometimes fight back when harassed. I have seen seagulls interact with slope gliders, but mostly they just ignore them, unless harassed
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:36 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

I recall a story several years ago about a club losing their field because hawks were nesting nearby. Think they moved to another field and the hawks followed them. []

Might be smart, in some instances, to get hold of the local Audubon Society and have them do bird censues, track eagle nesting success, etc. So, if there is peace and tranquility with the birds, they will be on your side.
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post


ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson
Might be smart, in some instances, to get hold of the local Audubon Society and have them do bird censues, track eagle nesting success, etc. So, if there is peace and tranquility with the birds, they will be on your side.
I don't know Jim, like the idea, but that's like telling Greenspeace where you are going to drop your fishing nets. I suggest you do the same thing, but just tell them you want the information because your kid is doing a book report or something.
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

I'm President of the Frederick Model Aircraft Club, and we are anticipating the possibility of conflicts between development and interested in pursuing use of park land, but have been less than successful. I think there is an opportunity here for all the Capital Area flying clubs to form a coalition and work with local authorities with a single voice. Perhaps that way we can better obtain support for designated park lands for model aviation.

Brad
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:28 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post


ORIGINAL: bkdavy

I'm President of the Frederick Model Aircraft Club, and we are anticipating the possibility of conflicts between development and interested in pursuing use of park land, but have been less than successful. I think there is an opportunity here for all the Capital Area flying clubs to form a coalition and work with local authorities with a single voice. Perhaps that way we can better obtain support for designated park lands for model aviation.

Brad
WTG Brad. With some experience with local officials, if you have a meeting with them get all you can to show up. Don't just do a petition thingy, get as many faces staring down the officials as often as you can.
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Old 05-02-2007, 11:55 PM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

This article strikes directly at the heart of the AMA's major failure. Where was the AMA in the 20th century when parks were being established ? And now, as the article mentions, it very difficult to even find a parcel of land large enough for a model airplane park, ( in some areas of the country).
The AMA needs to act fast and change their primary focus. Land, land, and land. The future of this hobby lives or dies with land.

We have the organizational structure in place. We simply need to mobilize our numbers to be a political voice. So where is the leadership ? Rearranging deck chairs.
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: Found in the Washington Post

At the risk of lighting off a firestorm, I'll ask a simple question:

- Is there any data showing what's happening at a greater rate under AMA leadership: loss of flying sites or addition of flying sites?
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