STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

You guys really need to look around and see how other NFP's operate. The AMA doesn't use 1/10th of its potential for raising revenues or profits. All of these things that everyone complains about the AMA not offering or not doing better takes money, not magic, money and you can only use the profits to do the really neat things. Anything below "profits" only pays for operational costs.

The only way to get all these really neat things we want is to increase AMA revenues far beyond the membership dues and earn "profits" for the org. Again, case in point, EAA brings in 8x revenues a year over membership dues annually. I think the AMA brings in like .25x revenues over membership dues. That's sad. It's not just the EAA either, it's many NFP 501C3's that go all over the place to bring in revenues selling hard goods and whatever else it takes to earn revenues and profits for all this neat stuff. There is nothing in the rule book that says the AMA can't make as much revenues as humanly possible, 100x over membership dues if they could.

It's just so funny and hypocritical that so many ask the AMA to do more for THEM and then when they do, look who complains about it. If you are a member of the AMA and you want to help, start a foam cutting business and give a % of your profits to YOUR organization if you don't like what the AMA does, oh and it will be 100% tax deductible too. I mean give em a break, let them try something. Honestly the same guys complain about every new thing they try. Wonder why they are not getting anywhere, it's not them holding us back, it's you.

Simple case in point was the e-ticket. Why did they poll a membership that already belongs whether they would utilize the service, of course not. I know eventually it will come, but once again, the members bottlenecked Muncie from putting words into action. A leader would have just put words into action then, instead of a year or two from now. Instead of asking or polling their members if they need to implement it, they will be forced to do it to survive in the not so distant future.

Someone in this organization needs to stand up against the membership, take charge, and get things done the real way. SSCPrez sounds like the perfect man for the job.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Another example. Go into a AAA office what do you see lots of books and maps they give you for free with your membership, filled with millions of dollars in ads in those books. Look what else they sell, luggage and travel needs! BRILLIANT! Wonder how Samosonite is handling it? Probably really good, AAA raises travel awareness and it has trickle down effect which in turn sells more luggage for Samsonite and the rest of the travel industry retailers. Without the NFP mission of AAA, there would be far less travel in this country.

Also how much of that overpriced luggage and travel needs does AAA really sell, not much or hopefully for them, a whole bunch. But not only did they create awareness for travel they also created awareness for really cool overpriced luggage and travel needs which you can simply go online and shop for a better price elsewhere like someone else already addressed.

Wonder if AMA ever had any effect on raising RC awareness to help the OP sell more foam? I would suspect the answer is yes. Hey wait a minute, MA rates are real cheap, so they say, all he has to do is put an ad in MA and say that he'll even beat AMA's price or something to that effect. I'm not criticizing the OP, myself and others are trying to help him draft off what the AMA is trying to acheive for the members AND for retailers.

And that goes right back to the magazine, it will be an ugly day if AMA ever yanks the magazine for the retailers and for the members. Not all AMA members look for ads on the web. Not all AMA members browse other rags. All AMA members receive their magazine.

Jim Thomerson

Wonder where AAA buys their luggage. Maybe from Sampsonite? No, there is this building with little third world girls . . . .

Hossfly

IMO AMA does provide a service with these products that may or may not be competitive with AMA member businesses.

AMA plaques, in my locality, are cheaper than those certain "trophy houses" that adhere mostly to school programs where the highest top-dollar++ prices are of no consequence. OTOH there is one trophy business where AMA is about the same range as this business. I use the local business simply to give local business the trade. Yet another club CD gives his event business to AMA. Hey, all is OK. [8D]

Last SEP, I ran a War Bird event and used 2 vendors for T-Shirts. Both did great work. The AMA white T-Shirts, black letters and pictures, were 60% cost of the multi-color gray T-Shirts of the commercial vendor. Both vendors furnished excellent quality work.
The color items were definitely a step-up in what-was-ordered so naturally a higher price. Both items, at club pricing, were very inexpensive compared to the retail prices asked in the average store. I don't know how they do it so cheaply.

Was AMA undercutting the commercial vendor? IMO absolutely not! The AMA item was a totally separate item from the commercial item. Different graphics, different printing, B-W versus multicolor, in reality, the commercial item was actually more economical than AMA when considering the item received.

Therefore, for these ventures, in my experience, AMA is simply a provider and not a competitor in these fields, like their "store" where their prices are, as any other souvernier shop, simply autrocious , and do not get many of my $$$.
BTW, the selling of these items is allowed without establishing a separate "non-related business" such as the magazine MA.
Whether the foam-wing business will be a competition against other vendors remains to be seen, however I very seriously doubt it.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Errr, you don't even want to put AMA Members who are retailers up on that pedestal. Every industry is in that boat.

Oh and it prolly took a real brain child to think about having luggage for sale at AAA offices.

AAA=Travel, Luggage=Travel, hey I got it, let sell luggage! Wait a minute, maybe we can also sell travel insurance and maps which are even better the our own trip ticks and insurance. Yeah, we'll call that one bait and switch, but we'll let the members think we are providing them a one stop shop solution as an added value to their membership. Let's get those scum sucking members of ours! Wonder if this is the way AAA feels about their membership based non profit organization? Doubt it, too busy travelling and having fun.

Jim Thomerson

Analogies can be used to clarify or obfusicate a point of view but not prove or disprove same. Whether the AMA competes with a T-shirt vendor or a trophy vendor is not germain. Whether the AMA competes with AMA members offering model airplane stuff is germain. One area where the AMA does compete with AMA members who are private vendors is in the area of plans. This fits into the AMA's educational and preservational roll, and has a long history. Magazines were supplying plans long before any of the plan vendors I know got into the business. So, one could argue the plans as a valid analogy to cutting foam wings. But it seems to me to still be a weak analogy.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

STL, how did you come up with the travel industry analogy? I can't think of a worse one. Travel isn't a hobby, it's a necessity. The comparison is incorrect. AAA doesn't have the mission to support their industry, they support travelers. The AMA has a completely different mission. It's in on the site, I'm sure you can copy and paste it here.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Since when is travel, at least the type AAA supports, a neccessity? Travelling, again the type AAA supports most certainly a hobby and a luxury. Even they have their SIGs. Campers, RV'ers, Hikers, Bicylers, Sightseers, Bird watchers, Disneyholics and a thousand sub categories of recreational travelling.

AAA mission - AAA is North America’s largest motoring and leisure travel organization, AAA provides its members with travel, insurance, financial and automotive-related services. Since its founding in 1902, the not-for-profit, fully-tax-paying AAA has been a leader and advocate for the safety and security of all travelers.

Who really cares what you compare it too, first you just have to realize what the AMA does, versus what many think they do. The way I see it, many people think the AMA is a provider of modeling services which members can pick and choose which services they are willing and want to pay for. Not realizing the AMA is there to support everyone with services based on the masses, not any one induvidual. No matter what I show you as an example, it won't satisfy you, for some reason you think the AMA is this unique organziation when in reality it's no different then a whole bunch of them.

Even Hoss thinks the AMA should be setup like the EAA and NRA which includes a charitable foundation arm. I personally don't agree with him, at this point, but at least he's looking at other successful organizations for insight on how things get done. That's certainly going in the right direction.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

It sure would be nice if someone would give this thread a hair cut to keep it concise. Mods are you reading this long winded stuff being posted here???

SSRCCPREZ

Here is another thought...products or services or both? If the AMA is to only provide a service, is that a product unto itself? If they are offering a service inthe form of a product which is it first? a product or a service? When I hire a landscaper that is a service, when I buy hedge trimmers that is a product...So going along with this,isnt plans services actually in essence a product? No different than foam core service...
LAstly, to say that NO member of the AMA is effected in anyway by t-shirts mugs and plaques, but ferociouse is by the AMA cutting foam is a little less than intelligent. Even still if ferocious is the only one effected and he makes up less than .00001% of the membership, should the other 99.9998% really have to cow tow to him? Ther eis no way the AMA is ever going to do anything other than duck and cover if this is what we are going to do to them everytime they do SOMETHING or NOTHING!!!! we never give them a chance,ever....would you wanna be married to a woman who treated you the way we treat the AMA......neither would I

joshscfld

Are you done yet?

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Absolutely, I've read every post that has been made. I'm not going to "trim" a thread just because it's long. This thread has stayed within the rules, so there is no reason why I should step in and do anything. If a thread is active and stays within the rules I will just let it run, when the thread is finished it will die out on its own and slip down the thread list. If these guys want to type 3 page posts, I'm not going to do anything about it. There is nothing in the rules about how long a post can be.

Ken

SSRCCPREZ

Thanks Ken!!
Though I do agree there is virtue in brevity....

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Ken,

Forgive my confusion but didn’t you cite “EDITED REMAINING CONTENT TO KEEP IT CONCISE� as the reason for removing my post from this thread; http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5892462/tm.htm and subsequently locking it?

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I NEVER once said that I “EDITED REMAINING CONTENT TO KEEP IT CONCISE�, so please don't put words in my mouth. If the truth be known I very rarely edit members posts. The reason for this is because I don't want to accidentally change the meaning the poster had intended for thier message. About the only time I will edit a message if it's to remove foul langauge, and I can do so without changing the intented message for that post. Instead I will usually just remove the post instead. A message was sent you to when you post was removed, although I don't know why you didn't receive it. But just to set the record straight, the message you are referring to above was removed because it was a personal attack on another member. I never said anything about editing content.

I will state this for the record, if anybody ever has a question about why I removed their posts they are free to contact me via PM and I will discuss the issue with them. But trying to go behind my back to the management, or trying to publicly embarrass me, is not going to accomplish anything other than make the situation worse.

Ken

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Ken,

Please forgive my misunderstanding of your reasoning and subsequent misquote. Those words were actually someone else's. I have misinterpreted PMs sent me regarding your deletion of my post.

At any rate my post was removed and you claim now that I personally attacked another member. I have re-read my removed post and I can not find where I even mention another RDU member at all within the post. I still haven't received a PM from you regarding this matter. Others seem to have no problem getting their PMs to me. I am not sure what is wrong here but when I tried to copy you on PMs sent to Nathan and Marc yours was not successful. I will attempt a PM from here to see if I can reach you.

SSRCCPREZ

Isnt this a little off topic?

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

littlecranks**t = Non Sequitur! [:'(] RCKen is to be lauded for his patience.

Stubborn Mule

Ditto!

The Mule

Stubborn Mule

Yep! And while the AMA cranks out those foam wings, more and more places to use them will be lost!

AMA needs to focus but everyone keeps electing the same bunch of shysters and then turn around and send in their dues every fall. Like Lemmings racing to the clift!

The Mule

ira d

Far the first ten or so years I was in the AMA I did not vote but now I do and I
would like to see new leaders elected to the AMA also, but be that as it may I
dont see anything wrong with them makeing foam wings.

I dont think there are really that many foam cutters out there so it should plenty
of business to go around at least for now.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Well you will have a chance this year. Don Mathewson is running and a darn good candidate with some grreat ideas for the AMA. Just ask the people in his District (D-II).

d_bodary

My Feedback: (85)

OK i give where can can i get a set of your foam cores? what kind of planes are they for? What kind of kits do you have? So far all i read after three pages is a bunch of ranting. I'm not sure i could even purchase anything from you. Name of a company? anything?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

There is not one single service that the AMA offers that has an effect which either helps or hurts competitors or potential competitors. If they hurt a competitor or potential competitor, then that competitor just needs to out market and out strategize them. Heck they these guys can even advertise in their own competitors magazine, at what many believe as the lowest price rag in the industry. Try advertising your burgers in McDonalds or having Target putting their ads up on the walls inside Walmart and see where it gets you.

Now the day the AMA chose to be a NFP versus a privately held or for stock gave them the ability to offer services much cheaper then most do or could have the ability to do the same, since there are no dividends or out of bound payrolls being paid to anyone. Of course they could have simply chosen the for profit path right from the get go. Again this is no different then any other NFP doesn't matter who you compare them too. Why does the gov't allow this? Well for many reasons, first of which no one single person or group of persons can profit a dime from its success. The gov't also knows that NFP's create plenty of awareness in any industry which they are providing these services, again which has an effect on the entire industry and stimulates growth. Wonder where guns would be without the NRA, pretty obvious.

All of the successful NFP's including the AMA is living proof that without their presence, the market which they serve, would have much less awareness. Sometimes you just have to look at the bigger picture. Personally I think the AMA should do whatever is within the law to raise revenues. The laws are already written for them, now all they have to do is push the limits WITH the support of the members. I believe that it was the AMA that spawned the entire aircraft modeling manufacturing market, as it looks today. Just how far behind would the RC industry be without them, we'll never know. But we do know where it stands with them right now.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

One little sidenote. Perhaps Hoss and the rest of you are right. Perhaps the AMA is intentionally keeping their prices down in MA. Well those lower prices are SERVING the members who manufacture and SERVING non members who manufacture. Many say that the AMA does not support outside members, well if you guys think they are keeping those prices down, there is one example which they do serve. Now is it worth $6 to each member per year to allow these manufactures to get a lower price to create awareness and keep their profit margins higher? Yes. Lower advertising prices give these guys the ability to increase not only their awareness, but also the money they can spend to improve the quality and technology of the products which they sell. Let alone the fact it will just help them sell more product to keep thier prices down to the consumer.

Personally I believe that AMA keeps rates within market reach, but if you beg the differ, then re-read what I just said above.