fliers1

I think it just makes too much sense as far as the powers that be are concerned. As we continue to lose flying sites and the hobby not so slowly declines, rather than wringing hands and/or just sitting back and hoping for a miracle to happen, at least your proactive suggestion might be a good direction for the modeling organization to take. Or is it simply just wishful thinking?

Although there is one commercial RC flight school in the US which I believe is teaching the military to fly UAVs.

CCR

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

I don't think we have anything to concern ourselves. Aeromodeling has a good track record, it speaks for itself. The gov't really never jumps to do something until something gives them a reason to do it. Also like someone said, it's not the vehicle that will cause the damage, it's the person. The RC toy has nothing to do with it. Don't worry about Schummer, just go out and fly.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

The correct answer[sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Hossfly

Two things here to note: The current gun people in government are not likely to have any control much longer. 2009 will bring a "whole 'nother" ruling class into the spectrum. Shummer and company will have a field day.

The NYC mayor has a national program going to sue small gun dealers out of existence One man with 5 billion $$$ can make a difference. One small organization, severely limited in its operation, in the 10-15 million $$$ total worth cannot make much of a difference. EDITED TO ADD: OTOH even a small organization, not under severe restrictions, has a good chance of making a difference. That is why I advocate so strongly the need for two AMAs, one a non-profit Foundation, and a non-restricted group with the ability to represent the model aviation person before all. Of course then we have to be vigilent that no "Lawrence Small" gets into the workings thereof. [>:]

Ridding the country of toy airplanes is much easier than ridding the country of 80 million LEGAL gun-owners. Such will also bestow many accolades on those that do away with those potential terrorists weapons.
>>>>stl: "Also like someone said, it's not the vehicle that will cause the damage, it's the person. The RC toy has nothing to do with it."<<<<
That's funny STL, because the gun haters say it strictly opposite. I refuse to write what they say as I consider such to be the words of total idiots. I like your version much better. Toy airplanes, like guns, are simply inanimate objects subject only to the will of the person-in-charge. OTOH, a toy airplane can sometimes display a will-of-its-own as it departs the person's plan and goes astray, yet it would not be able to do that if the person had not willed it to a place from which it could go astray. I suppose the same could be said about gun accidents. Therefore, Safety, precautions, and proper care are needed with both items.

Thanks to RCKen for displaying my improper use of the word "prohibited' reference the non-profit's ability to lobby. I should have used the term "severely limited". In any case it's not a good thing to get the IRS on your case, even when you are totally within the regulations. SIX annual audits in a row certainly made me weary of that little 'recreational experiment'. [:@]

calvino

I can see how a model plane can be easily converted into a bomb carying device. they are prety cheap, and with a little traning can easily become weapons. Not that we will be seeing "firebomb planes" or "explosive helicopters" ... but the threat could be real. I think if we are cautious we could stop a potental atack with out making the rules different regarding the AMA and model planes. Mini T

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

I am pretty certain that the government recognized the threat of hobbyist R/C systems several decades ago and uses certain jamming techniques to protect high value targets. A far greater problem exists with cell phones.

DelRay

To echo your response to STLPilot, "just go out and fly". But check out all the bicycle riders with back packs and motorcycle riders' saddle bags for possible c-4 packs on your way to the flying field. Hey, check that little tyke's coaster wagon, it looks very suspicious.

fliers1

If having RC airplanes becomes criminal, then only criminals will have RC airplanes

CCR

Stubborn Mule

The government admits it never thought of using a commercial airliner to crash into a building. Then Tom Clancy had one dive into the Capital Building in one of his books and the government raised its collective eyebrows. Then 911 and the government finally recognized the threat of errant commercial aircraft.

I wouldn't be certain the government recognized anything until it's been duely and properly demonstrated to them!

As for employing certain jamming techniques? You give them far more credit than they deserve. Perhaps in certain isolated instances. Like where nukes are involved. But not as a general rule.

The Mule

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Who needs a commercial aircraft. Do you have any idea how easy it would be to steal a Cessna 182 or any other 4 place aircraft capable of holding a few hundred lbs of TNT. The ignitiion switches on these planes could be hotwired within seconds. And to break into them, takes about a 5lbs of pressure with a crowbar. All the big name modern terrorists are mostly suicidal, so why would anyone start looking at RC planes and have to make things more difficult then they have to be. Just go out to some airport in the middle of some cornfileld, crack open a Cessna and do what you gotta do. Don't get all excited about this, there is no threat to RC planes, Schummer's just an idiot.

Deadeye

All the big name modern terrorists are mostly suicidal, so why would anyone start looking at RC planes and have to make things more difficult then they have to be. [/quote]

Great point. The suicide/homicide bombers seek 72 virgins and a river of wine in their so called after-life. They strive to be martyrs. I think they think hiding behind a TX would be cowardly, and probably sacreligious.

Cryhavoc

My Feedback: (46)

"Martyr: A person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion." I don't remember asking them to renounce anything. Also, those poor virgins! Their reward for their faithfullness is an intoxicated suicide bomber? Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this picture?

Hossfly

Agreed with your description of Schummer, however there is threat when one thinks about those of like-description that send such an idiot and all his party-players to a place of such power. Now that is a threat to contend with, much less those from other areas. [:@]

cloudancer03

My Feedback: (22)

the only thing worse than than a senator is the idiot in the white house.now theres a danger to everyone even you rednecks..

Deadeye

This thread is going to get shut down if we get political...

LeeL

My Feedback: (1)

Schumer is an idiot; what does that say for the people that elected him? The main issue here is that no matter what we belive there are idiots that have the power to regulate how we live our lives wheter it is owning a firearm or flying our models. We need AMA to step up and lobby to protect our interest and insure that the idiots dont win.

fliers1

We were warned and guess what? This thread will more than likely be soon closed. Oh well.

VFR_RC

IMO, the biggest threat is the media. They are the ones looking for anything to bring the word terrorism to our screens and keep people in constant state of fear and tuning to their channels to stay on top of the news. Like many here have said, next they will say that terrorists use wheelchairs to hide bombs and get access to buildings etc. I mean come on! the media needs some serious regulating.

NorfolkSouthern

This thread gives us a way to discuss the current climate with the media and lawmakers, and how it can or will affect us all, especially the AMA. Sure, they can close this thread and everybody can just go out and fly. Great. That is, until another article sprouts up or a lawmaker REALLY does something about "the RC problem" and "public safety". Oh, and then there's that pesky little problem with the "nuisance parkflyers" that "get in the way of soccer practice". I guess it just won't matter to those us who are privileged enough to belong to an RC country club.

NorfolkSouthern

Cryhavoc

My Feedback: (46)

In some ways my following questions may have been covered but here goes:

For someone to utilize our type of aircraft for terroristic activity they would have to:

First,
Need line of site to the intended target.

If this criteria isn't met then the new technology utilizing video goggles and camera's would need to be employed in order to transition to the intended target/area and involve a large enough aircraft to carry the proper payload to do the required damage? Wouldn't this then be a UAV utilizing longer range transmitters and advanced technology.

Couldn't that technology be required to be registered in some degree? Rocketeers are accustomed to this type of qualifying and registering to enjoy their sport/hobby and advance in levels. Chime in here with any info, I've just watched it on the discovery channel.

Secondly,
You'd need a runway capable of launching an aircraft, within a reasonable proximity, carrying enough "product" to be capable of doing enough damage to make it worth the effort.

I'm not a demolitions expert but was a torpedoman's mate on a nuclear submarine, (20 years ago) and am familiar with explosives. It seems to me that the "payload" would need to be significant. Anyone with expertise in this area, please feel free to weigh in.

Third,
This activity would have to go totally unnoticed by anyone in the RC community. While not impossible it would take considerable effort to conceil in my opinion.

Anyone got any thoughts on this or would like to add? I'm just curious and these are the thoughts that came out during a "skull" session we had.

Let's keep this non-political and see if we can come up with info from within our own ranks that could be enlightening and of assistance.

typicalaimster

Once again this is exactly what you say, line of site. I have a plane with the fly by video equipment installed. Most of the equipment out there is 2.4ghz and does not play nicely around objects. There is 900mhz equipment which has better tree penetration, but once again you're limited to line of site.

rustypep

My Feedback: (6)

I agree and don't forget about the modern autopilots based on GPS. Why try to overcome the technical issues of flying a 20-30 lb model airplane (remember all that extra fuel) with a 10+ lb payload over a long distance on a small engine via radio control without being noticed to hit a small target when the other is more easily executed and the technology is fully matured. I fly pretty well but I doubt that the vast majority of the hobby (that's me!) could land in the same spot twice on a good day let alone hit a car even once while standing back just 300 yards. Also, at what point does a model airplane become classified as a military drone/weapon. I would think that if you wanted to deliver a convential bomb/explosive that it would have to be a pretty big model to do that. A lot more than even 55 pounds. If they could pull off 9/11, they can certainly build a military type drone outside the US, sneak the parts in, and strike when they want.

The means of delivery are too numerous for it to ever become feasible to defend against these threats unless you ban all cars, trucks, airplanes, etc. from public use as well as anything that could be dreamed up into weapon that could be delivered using any of the above. I don't see that happening any time soon. I still believe the threat posed by R/C and even small aircraft is much less than other threats such as car bombs, other 9/11 type scenarios, shoulder mounted rockets, dirty bombs, assassins, anthrax, etc. That isn't to say our enemies can't get creative but you can't eliminate every threat and you can't live in fear. How much can you really shove into a small Ceesna anyway? That plane and engine will only haul up so much weight even with one pilot flying alone.

I see this CBS story was a local NY story that ran 5-17 and wasn't picked up by the national syndicate. Schumer is a NY senator so it isn't a huge surprise that his comments would have been solicited by this NY reporter. This isn't the first time this has been discussed in the press either since 9-11. That said, I would like to see more positive press for our hobby. These are the same politicians that complain about video games and violence on TV (not saying they are totally wrong) so maybe someone should point out the good from the hobby more than outweights this small threat and we are more than willing to work with them to regulate our hobby to minimize the threat and provide an extra set of eyes. How many pilots, engineers, astronauts, designers, etc. were influenced by our sport? Do they really want to eliminate something that helped contribute to the development of people like Burt Rutan? I think not/hope not!

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

In a Cessna 182, about 700 lbs of TNT, not including the pilot and the gas to get there. If they are using straight TNT, ouchie.

Hossfly

Why worry about TNT or such? Far too obvious.

A large trainer-like RC airplane, with a minor auto pilot to hold heading and altitude, could be sent over any large city.

A timer opens the trap-door and a few pounds of Anthrax spores are released for inhalation by citizens.

MASS HYSTERIA happens a few days later as there is no clue as to WHAT happened. Then when detected, no clue as to HOW it happened. News Media creates more mass hysteria.

>>>>>>>>>
"inhalation: Initial symptoms may resemble a common cold. After several days, the symptoms may progress to severe breathing problems and shock. inhalation anthrax is usually fatal."
<<<<<<<<<

The possibilities are not severely limited.

Another reason AMA needs a unit able to perform unrestricted LOBBY duty in DC. [>:]

Stubborn Mule

Schummer is just one of over 500 idiots who just happen to have control for the immediate future. Our only advantage is that with those numbers they become a committee less capable than the EC. (Gotta keep the AMA in the thread somehow)

The Mule