rsbwing

How about we all read this http://www.armscontrol.ru/UAV/UAV-report.pdf Threat of Terrorism Using Unmanned Aerial Vehicles: Technical Aspects By Eugene Miasnikov
This report has links to other report that will keep you busy reading for days.

Having spent several years in the RPV business as it was called then. I know just how hard it is to shoot down a 1/9th scale model of a Mig-27. On one ocasion I flew in front of 6 M-60's and 4 M-2's for days back and forth. They fired tens of thousands of rounds. Many of the planes would return clean after a 15 minute flight. If they decide to use a model for a weapon there is little to nothing we can do.

Forced_Induction

Sounds like a typical American media fear tactic to me. They take something that a minority of people do for fun, and point the finger at it. try to make the public scared of it. If our media in Canada pointed the finger at everything the way youre government and media do, we'd probably walk around scared ****less of every foriegn race and anything they could possibly use against us too

DelRay

"There's nothing we can do".................Well, I would say a good start would be to sharpen up on marksmanship.

Sport_Pilot

A good burst from an EMI gun might knock it out as well. Or just radio jamming of radio control / instruction and GMI. Not to mention guided missles.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Guided missles flying over out cities trying to intercept low flying autonomous RC airplanes? If we get to that point America will be a very different country then it is now. EMI guns are a good idear, but you'll need a lot of man power to keep an eye in the sky.

John Casey

My Feedback: (4)

I bet thats why they(the military) went to computer controlled firing,
humans just can't "lead" the target good enough to hit it.
C-130 gunship is great example of computer controlled weapons firing.

Sport_Pilot

Why not guided missles? You rather have the weapon hit its target? A fairly large explosion on the ground seems like just a pop in the air.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Well the problem is how the missles would find their targets in the first place. RC planes can fly low and slow and if you know how to program your autonomous flight guidance you can have it fly around buildings if you need too. Let alone the fact you can launch the plane from only a couple miles away, this means you need to have missle sites every couple miles to make it worth the effort to even begin creating sites.

It's the same problem we have dealing with GA and commercial aircraft. You can fly a pretty big plane south down the Hudson river and hook a quick left with about a 10 second window of opportunity of taking out the plane before it hits a 80 story tower in midtown Manhattan ... and your worried about RC airplanes? Terrorists don't need to bother doing things the hard way and we don't need to waste our time trying to fight a fight that can't be won.

Oh and there is one other piece of information that needs to be addressed, how does the guided missle know the difference between a small ultralight and a RC airplane? You're talking some sophisticated weapons here if you can have a missle decide whether or not to hit an object that may or may not be a small private plane or a 50% RC aircraft and make that decision within seconds. That will certainly put a damper on GA.

I mean America is not a desert. We have hills, we have trees we have buildings higher then 3 stories. All this great technology you guys are talking about work terrifiic when you have a line of site equal to or greater then the curve of the earth, like in a desert, but I wouldn't want to live in an America that has to setup missle sites to take down RC airplanes. If it ever comes to that there is something very wrong in the world much much worst then it is now.

There is nothing you can do about it except say you want to do something about it so that you will have a better chance of winning your next election. Congress is proving that point right now.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

All the more reasons not to put the equipment in their hands, not to educate them via internet blogs, and to keep them from our shores. STL, you may not realize it, but your just named a few of the issues with home defense. How to prevent needing them is a better avenue for discussion.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Oh I realize it, but that's because it's nearly impossible to protect ourselves from people already in this country. Should we just close our borders and stop importing all from foreign nations? Can't be done, ask N Korea how well that works out. Do we put gates around our colleges? A week after 9/11 planes were back in the air, that's because you can't fight agasint something that can't be won, all you can do is create awareness and some restrictions, but what does that do? It only allows people to use other means to cause their harm, proven at Virginia Tech.

As far as us ever coming under a real attack from a foreign nation, well we will be in a world war when that day comes. Home defense? Go to work and just keep your eyes open, that's the only real defense.

Schummer and Michael Moore and the rest of the libs have a lot in common, point out the problems that can't be fixed, then take advantage of the situation from the people who think that they are actually right. They all live in Disneyworld sets you back $60 a day to live in their fantasy world. The real world is free, but there's no Space Mountain.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Oh I realize it, but that's because it's nearly impossible to protect ourselves from people already in this country. Should we just close our borders and stop importing all from foreign nations? Can't be done, ask N. Korea how well that works out. Do we put gates around our colleges? A week after 9/11 planes were back in the air, that's because you can't fight agasint something that can't be won, all you can do is create awareness and some restrictions, but what does that do? It only allows people to use other means to cause their harm, proven at Virginia Tech.

As far as us ever coming under a real attack from a foreign nation, well we will be in a world war when that day comes. Home defense? Go to work and just keep your eyes open, that's the only real defense.

Schummer and Michael Moore have a lot in common, point out the problems and shortcomings that can't be fixed, then take advantage of the situation from the people who think that they are actually right a.k.a. the clueless. The clueless all live in Disneyworld which of course sets you back $60 a day to live in that fantasy. The real world is free, but there's no Space Mountain. Each day Schummer will find a new crowd to arouse, it's what politicians do for a living, so let em, who cares.

When any one person gets it into their minds to do something bad, it will get done. The only person that can stop them is themselves.

Desertlakesflying

My Feedback: (28)

Th best thing any of us can do is not vote for those with a D next to their name. And, to agree with Hoss, again, a bunch of those with an R. Although those with the R are less likely to invade and regulate our hobby. Democrats are in the process of seeking total government control over every aspect of everyone's life. They really are a new socialist party, and this is just one more example.

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Really, come on now. If Liberals are Socialists, then Conservatives are Fascists. People really like to blame liberals/democrats for all the problems the USA faces. But look who is in power. Up until the last major election, Republicans controlled the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of federal government. In addition, most of the state Governors were Republican as well. If you're looking for blame, conservatives should look in the mirror. And talk about fear mongering--Bush/Cheney are the masters.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Problems with the country??? You understood my point quite well, there are no RC airplanes flying around with bombs strapped to them and there never has been at least not in my lifetime. People like Schummer are only trying to find reasons to control and mandate something that does not need controlling.

Now I agree that health care has problems, but we shouldn't be looking to Cuba as a model country on how health care should systems should be run. If you want to see how gov't health care systems should be run, look no further then Medicare and VA, heck all we have to do is fix those systems then replicate them Nationwide. Should only take about 10-25 years.

cublover

My Feedback: (47)

Well guys,,,,,,,,as an "Outlaw" pilot...no AMA card here...this is why!!!!!,,,,the AMA will NEVER stand up for your rights!!! that is a fact!!!..Thats why i dont belong to the AMA. Ive had my bouts" with em' on simple,,and i mean simple matters and nothing was ever done. Soooooooooooo,,,with that said...im hitting the hobby shop and getting 40 sets of Crystel's, 5 new transmitters.20 engine's,,,warehouse of fuel..and a ass load of planes....Because,,,i want to be able to fly forever,, or as long as I can see and hold the TX..Thats what Outlaws do!!!!...funny thing is,,,think about it....guns get into the wrong hands because of other wrong hands sell'n them on the street,,,and who pays for it??,,,we do,,,the citizen who wants to do the right thing and do the paperwork with buy'n a new gun.......so does this jerk reallllllllllllllly think hes gonna stop the "wrong hands" of getting a hold of a plane..didnt work on 9-11. This country IS gonna turn inside out unless we stop all the crap going on with our beloved goverment try'n to regulate ever thing we do....want to regulate something???ill be sitting on the toilet in about 15 min.......the new statement WILL be put on a shirt and I will offer it,,,its in the works right now..."You can have my planes, when you pull my dead hands off the TX"..unreal!!!!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The heads of national security have to bring up all the possible doomsday scenarios to cover their butts and also so they can say, "I told you so". Technology has made it possible for 1 little old lady to enter a packed stadium and take out 1/2 the crowd with the push of a button. There is no defense for that kind of attack.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

That was one of the most factual and accurate assessments I've ever read in this forum.

Tommy_Gun

And then as if things aren't bad enough,
You get morons pulling the crap you see in this clip, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0jDFTldGHY

I'm sure such a recording will give the real alarmist types all the ammo they need to stir up a real mess.

NorfolkSouthern

In the video, it doesn't look like the plane was carrying any explosive. Instead, you can see where they launched some type of firework making it look like the plane exploded. Still, people do dumb things.

NorfolkSouthern

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I think we ought to continue to dig up more videos like that one. Great inspiration to us all...before long the modeling community will finally get the respect and recognition it has deserved for much too long. Nothing like striking a little fear…

Tommy_Gun

LCS,

Striking fear was not my intent.

And hiding from the fact that folks are doing such things is not helpful either.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I know, that you must know, even though the video depicted has little to do with our hobby, videos such as that have the effect of portraying this hobby in less than a desirable light... Why perpetuate it?

I am not ignoring the facts... I am sure there are laws on the books that already address that type of activity... but if not the intent to utilize such means as a terrorist weapon most definitely is...nothing we say here is going to help anyone… anywhere.

This thread is one of those type discussions where only negatives will be rendered or amplified...No good to come from this!

Wait a second there... I was mistaken! How could I be so wrong? Let's continue this discussion and prove that our hobby/sport is an element for terrorist activity. We should be proud to garner such power.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Terroist activity? Laws on the books? Hold on there tiger, what these were doing was nothing more or less then within the AMA safety code. And whomever launched that projectile was no amateur, so how do you know it wasn't done by someone who took the proper precautions?

As per recent information provided by the AMA, there no rule against projecting any object at a RC airplane whether it be a paintball, a potato cannon, shotgun or even a stinger missle. I mean what is the difference between this video and using a paintball gun? Nothing....same idiot different weapon....same princpal different ammo. One takes out an eye the other takes off your head. Both will take down a RC plane.

Just because there was loud bang makes not one bit of difference of what kind or sized object strikes that plane. As of right now you can shoot anything you want at a RC airplane and the AMA will be more then happy to pay if there is an injury/accident as per their rules and regs. At least that's what they put in writing, so go crazy, they'll pay for it!

But hey, I was really surprised when I found out the AMA condoned shooting paintballs and any other foreign object at RC airplanes then went so far as to post guidelines on their website. I'm not saying it's not fun to do, but I also understand precedent, setting examples, and of course the ever so popular "pushing the legal limit". Heck for all we know these guys may have read the thread about how the AMA will allow shooting of foreign objects at RC airplanes and rolled with it, I mean why not, it's an AMA approved and endorsed activity!

Here a link to the video again, why do we have to hide it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0jDFTldGHY As per the photo and video, the plane did not explode, something was projected at the plane. This was EXACTLY the point I was trying to make in the paintball thread. I know paintballing is fun, but to someone that has the ammo and resources, so is this activity. Maybe it's time for the AMA to re-evaluate their policy, or we can just continue to push the AMA limits.

Negatives and over amplificaton? Nope, just within AMA policy and safety code...ironic isn't it? Can't wait to see just how far someone will push the AMA safety code limits again. Hopefully next time the projectile will really pack a punch. None of that sissy 1/4 stick of dynamite projectiles, let's see some real explosions. C'mon guys give us the good stuff! I was always told that when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. In this case the AMA supplied the lemons AND the insurance all you need to supply is the water and the sugar. Principal and precedent LCS...think about it.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I suppose you have a point in that rambling but you failed to make it clear...Try again if you wish.

abel_pranger

Can't be. We've had at least 2 guys cite their (shadowy - this is hush hush stuff) credentials in this thread and say it isn't possible. OTOH, if it were possible for some yahoo to do it for a YouTube bite, perhaps some trainable DHS weenies could be found and a defense network established for a few hundred billion $$, so Dave Brown et al of similar paranoid obsession can sleep well........or fixate on something else to make them wake up screaming.

Abel