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R/C a terrorist weapon

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Old 06-28-2007, 12:15 PM
  #1  
Red Scholefield
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Default R/C a terrorist weapon

OK modelers, lets quit our bickering on trivia and focus on a real problem.

CBS 2 HD Exclusive: Model Airplane Terror?
A Hobby For Many Can Turn Into A Terrorists Ally
Lou Young Reporting
(CBS) NEW YORK For most, its a harmless hobby, flying radio-controlled airplanes. But in the wrong hands, the little planes can become big weapons.
CBS 2 HD has learned more on the power of the planes and what the government is doing, if anything, to regulate them. It could happen in the middle of Manhattan. A remote controlled model airplane, an all-American hobby, can turn into a weapon, in the hands of a terrorist. You can literally go into a shop tomorrow and buy radio-controlled
aircraft or a radio controlled helicopter that will carry a payload of explosives anywhere you want to, I said David Hambling, a defense technology analyst.
The threat is real. Accused terrorists have already tried. In Maryland, a teacher was found guilty of helping a terror group get an electronic autopilot system and video equipment to use on these little airplanes.

Federal prosecutors say an Ohio man was indicted for conspiring with al Qaeda before he could use his remote controlled helicopter in an attack.

These are model airplanes, they're not toys. They can actually fly. The fastest can go over 100 mph with a theoretical range of five miles or more, which is why the feds have asked model airplane enthusiasts to keep their eyes and ears open.

“Its gonna take a long time to get to that point where they could possibly be able to fly one of these things and pinpoint an area where they could be doing some harm”, said model enthusiast John Brown.

The hobbyists love the planes, but they also know that in the wrong hands they could become undetectable air born weapons, literally flying under the radar. Some of the bigger craft can carry up to 20 pounds and 20 pounds of explosives can create quite an explosion.

“They present a real danger”, New York Sen. Chuck Schumer said. “the difficulty is figuring out how to regulate them.” Schumer said even the Department of Homeland Security sees them as a threat. DHS a classified bulletin out to federal departments
a few years ago.

“I think the appropriate thing is to ask DHS now that they've said these are a danger, what they intend to do about it”, Schumer said.

So far the feds have decided against additional regulations on the little planes. Instead, they're relying on the very same hobby enthusiasts to keep their eyes and ears open. It would take an outsider quite a while to learn enough about the planesto modify them.

The hobbyists say they'd spot the danger in time.

________________________________

While profiling is not politically correct we all know what we have to do in this regard. You have a middle eastern male between the ages of 16 and 36 suddenly appearing at your field and wants training, asks questions about autopilots, range, pay load, things that would never occur to a normal beginner - You know what to do.

You spot a middle eastern male asking out of the beginners category questions in your local hobby shop, again you know what to do, and so should the LHS owner.

Don't think the AMA is going to take care of this - YOU ARE THE AMA in this regard, whether you are a card carrying member or not. When the Feds close down R/C flying they won't ask if you have an AMA card.

Call your local FBI field office. To find your local office, go to http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fo.htm or check inside the front cover of your local phone book. You can also contact the FBI at 1-866-483-5137 or submit a tip on their Web site, http://www.fbi.gov.




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Old 06-28-2007, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

Um, I'd question anyone that "wants training, asks questions about autopilots, range, pay load, things that would never occur to a normal beginner". Why bring race into this?
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Old 06-28-2007, 12:23 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

It won't be long until they figure out that you don't necessarily have to join a club or go to a flying field to receive training. With all the great simulators we have available, an individual could easily teach themselves with a minimal investment of time and funds and skip the potential of recgonition in a group.

You're right Red, we need to keep a close eye upon this to both secure our rights as hobbiests and protect/police the sport we enjoy.
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Old 06-28-2007, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

I agree that vigilance is the order of the day. No matter what the background.
Timothy McVeigh was a war hero. The airplane that hit the Whitehouse was piloted a pasty whiteboy.

Those questions should trigger the creep meter quickly.
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:11 PM
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John Casey
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

Anything can be used as a weapon....
model airplane....
estes rockets......
a boat......
a car.......
box cutter......
butter knife......

or just fear itself.

.....you can't legislate a persons mission or intentions.

The founding father knew that when they wrote
"the right to bear arms"

Its not "the weapon" that does the killing its.......... its owner.

Do our radios really need a 3-5 mile range?
Not that I would like that to change.....nor the reliablity.....
as anything that is working fine................ should not be screwed with.

When man can't use a gun to kill one another ...
then he will use....... a knife........then a bat.......a sharpened piece of wood.......a rock......... then finally his bear hands.

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Old 06-28-2007, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

ORIGINAL: Robbidos

Um, I'd question anyone that "wants training, asks questions about autopilots, range, pay load, things that would never occur to a normal beginner". Why bring race into this?
Modelers being a bit smarter than the average TSA screener would focus on individuals that have consistantly been involved in terrorist activities ie: middle eastern males. Not little old ladies with walkers, or aging medal of honor winners. You can't cover everything, so work with the odds that are going to give you the best chance.

But as long is this is still a free country, and not under control of middle east mullahs, you do it your way, and I'll do it mine.
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:27 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

The Schummers and those behind them are much more damaging than the terrorists. Persons of his ilk are always seeking publicity and prey on the fears of those that would rather live on their knees in an illusion of safety than live a free life with the associated risks.

Politicians and demagogues are always seeking a headline and in this case may actually find an easy target because of the fractious behavior found among many in this hobby.

The saddest part of all is those that embrace the Schummers of the world are still leading life at the same risk level as the rest of us but with less enjoyment.
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon


ORIGINAL: Gremlin Castle

The Schummers and those behind them are much more damaging than the terrorists. Persons of his ilk are always seeking publicity and prey on the fears of those that would rather live on their knees in an illusion of safety than live a free life with the associated risks.

Politicians and demagogues are always seeking a headline and in this case may actually find an easy target because of the fractious behavior found among many in this hobby.

The saddest part of all is those that embrace the Schummers of the world are still leading life at the same risk level as the rest of us but with less enjoyment.
I'll share a fox hole with you any day. Let the rest live on their knees if that is what they want - just as long as they don't get in the way of our field of fire.
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:05 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

Pardon my ignorance, what is a Schummer?
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:18 PM
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ORIGINAL: vicman

Pardon my ignorance, what is a Schummer?
A mis spelled NY Senator seeking some free publicity.
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

Got it! Thanks
I still think it is better to focus on what people are doing rather than who they are.
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:59 PM
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ORIGINAL: vicman

Got it! Thanks
I still think it is better to focus on what people are doing rather than who they are.

"Who they are" identifies those that are much more liable to do things that I don't like. Hilllary, Shummer, Kennady, and that bunch immediately fall into that grouping. Now while you well know those I identified, actually I have not specified exactly just who you might be thinking I specified.
OTOH there are a bunch of RepubliCRATS that no longer get my voluntary $$$ support.

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Old 06-28-2007, 03:18 PM
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ORIGINAL: vicman

Got it! Thanks
I still think it is better to focus on what people are doing rather than who they are.
Well friend, by the time they are doing it who they are is somewhat irrelevant.
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Old 06-28-2007, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

how much more freedom has to be raped from the law abiding hobbists flying our planes. when will it end. let me guess. never
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:06 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

It's sad, but this hobby doesn't have the same protection that gun owners enjoy. The right to own and operate an RC model plane isn't garanteed, at least from what I know. If they could be technically listed as a firearm (with a launching, rather than firing nature) instead of an aircraft, perhaps then the hobby would stand a better chance of not being excessively regulated, except for the background checks. On the other hand, they would be under the Second Ammendment which is part of the Bill of Rights. As a result, I bet the government wouldn't be any more likely to come after somebody's 1/4 scale Cap 580 than they would my father's bolt-action hunting rifle. Why not have the AMA become a branch of the NRA?

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Old 06-28-2007, 07:32 PM
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ORIGINAL: NorfolkSouthern

It's sad, but this hobby doesn't have the same protection that gun owners enjoy. The right to own and operate an RC model plane isn't garanteed, at least from what I know. If they could be technically listed as a firearm (with a launching, rather than firing nature) instead of an aircraft, perhaps then the hobby would stand a better chance of not being excessively regulated, except for the background checks. On the other hand, they would be under the Second Ammendment which is part of the Bill of Rights. As a result, I bet the government wouldn't be any more likely to come after somebody's 1/4 scale Cap 580 than they would my father's bolt-action hunting rifle. Why not have the AMA become a branch of the NRA?

NorfolkSouthern
They know that messing with gun owners could get nasty. Maybe we should let them know how much damage we can do with a 12 X 6 APC prop at 11,500 rpm. On the other hand they may figure that they don't need to worry about model aircraft, just put restrictions on batteries. Then they could cover the other dangerous delivery devices like cars, boats and robotics.
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

Or worse yet, put restrictions on transmitters and receivers. It's entirely possible, because without a crystal there's no flying except for control-line and free-flight. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be many folks who want to talk about this. I am sure they would rather it stay in the closet. As I have said before, however, the problem is not going to go away. There will always be somebody worrying about issues like this. There are many more articles and writings related to security and this hobby than just that one blurb from the media you brought up. For now, most of that is all under the surface. We all know that magma expands when it gets hot, even though it's not apparent where we are standing. When it gets flowing and we're in its path, then it's too late to evacuate.

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Old 06-28-2007, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

Theres a thread on another groups site, titled
"RC aircraft with small firearm" There was a
dispute by me & several others to remove it
but they did'nt want to. Its crazy IMO.
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:03 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

" WE CAN NOT TRADE OUR FREEDOM FOR PEACE"

President John Kennedy.

Happy landings,
The Doc
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:54 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

We are all getting tired of the talk about Paris so in order to boost ratings, they look for a new terrorist threat. Model airplanes are an easy target where they have not got the numbers or support that a group like the NRA can muster. Even GA has had a lot of new regulation because of the so called "terrorist threat". despite the fact that you can do little damage with a cessna 150 even with a full fuel load. One by one the government has attacked our freedoms using the cry of national security. From the so called "Patriot Act" to the fascist they call the TSA and Homelandsecurity we have seen constant attacks on our rights. Our models are just a new target for them to point at. Keep in mind all of this goes on despite the fact that our border security is such a joke that thousands of people a week just walk across the borders into our country, and our current president calls this acceptable.

The only way to change what is going on is for people to vote for change in government and it will take large numbers of voters to do so.

And I believe in the following saying.

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security," Benjamin Franklin.
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:24 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

When you can build a plane from a piece of gutter pipe and some plastic sign board. You can build your own transmitter and radio equipment. Regulating who can or with what wont do a darn thing. With the know how you can pretty much MacGyver anything you really wanted to. If someone wants to do something bad enough, they will find a way. I for one served 8 years to protect this countries freedoms and my own. Both parties are clueless and do nothing to improve anything, but their own financial well being.

Do you really think that you can legislate or protect against everything?

Ben Franklin said it right. I too use that quote, because living in fear is not living and giving up my freedoms is not an option.
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:56 PM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

People have fabricated guns in a similar fashion, A60rdie. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's legal to possess them. So, you can't legislate and protect everything, as you say. However, the politicians are going to argue that it's better to make things as difficult for the terrorists, criminals, and "mental defectives" as possible. It just makes more ratings and the advertisers get more money. At who's cost? Ours, obviously.

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Old 06-29-2007, 07:09 AM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

I agree that this a great subject to talk about, and that it does have wide reaching ramifications on our hobby, but I have to ask what this has to do with the AMA? Unless we can tie this discussion to the AMA then I'm going to have to move this thread out to the Clubhouse.

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Old 06-29-2007, 08:05 AM
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Default RE: R/C a terrorist weapon

You mean the AMA has no resposnsibility to help our nation by preventing them from making RC illegal to prevent terrorists from using them? I think either their participation or lack of it is very germain to the AMA forum.
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:08 AM
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ORIGINAL: vicman

Got it! Thanks
I still think it is better to focus on what people are doing rather than who they are.

He was. The Shummers of this world will grab all of the power they can and gladly make R/C illegal. The AMA needs to act!
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