dodgefsu

can any body give me some feed back on shooting paintballs at an 40 size airplane to generate money at a local flyin?
Is it right? Is it wrong? Is it unsafe? Is it leagal?
AMA says no ground mounted projectiles
need lots of help ALL comments are welcome.


thanks

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

I took mine out one day to shoot at a friends plane when he was flying. He went vertical out of range. It is kind of fun. Better if the person knows you are coming. Now he wants to do it like you as a fundraiser. Do something like 4 shots for $1. It is not a ground base projectile, and it is not a firearm. Can't see any problems with it, but I am sure someone will point out that we are wrong.

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

I think the only problem is if you mount the paintball gun on the airplane.

Hmmmm. . . . now THERE's and idea. . . .

dodgefsu

yea heard from carl maroney "ama special services" and he said
The throwing of an object or shooting, including use of a paintball gun, at a model aircraft would constitute a violation of the AMA Safety Code under operations that were careless, reckless and dangerous manner. Model operations must be conducted by modelers in a responsible manner. The "reckless" description, comes from the substantial possibility of damage to the aircraft that would cause the pilot to lose control and result in serious injury. Unnecessary and unacceptable risk


what a bunch of bull.... dare somebody try to have fun

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Guess I can see that. I wouldn't mount it on the plane. THat would be a bigger pain than it is worth. I guess if you knocked a rudder off it could get interesting. I can see why they would be against it. Guess we won't do that.

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

I'd say bad idea. I have seen it done before... it is fun, but at the expense of safety. It is actually pretty hard to hit the plane, but let's take a worse case scenario. A paint ball hits the plane and damages say the switch. The uncontrolled 40 size plane ends up hitting someone and killing them. Accidents can happen, but intentionally shooting a plane (even if it is just a paint ball gun) and then having the plane kill someone as a direct result of shooting the plane? I'd call that reckless or at the very least careless. Please find another way to raise funds.

GAP-RCU

How about this: Use a BTE Flying King or something similar, tow a banner about 50 feet behind the plane (a 'bullseye' of course), then aim only at the banner. Safety violation? What's your take.

Gary

Flyfalcons

Shoot, we've done that at fly-ins, only with crete paper streamers and you tried to hit the streamer with another plane. It wasn't combat because the tow plane just flew racetrack patterns and it is enough challenge for us to hit the streamer. Trying to hit a banner with a paintball gun should be a lot of fun.

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

Hmm, I know of a field that had paintballers shoot at the planes.

Im not telling which one!

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

I guess I have to put it in the same category as combat. It is legal and sanctionable. I was flying combat one time, and my wing tip clipped the swithch and turned it off on another plane. The odds are very tiny, but it happened. The other plane was luckily going away from anything and slow, so it wasn't a big thing. You can have the same thing happen in a pylon race, or just regular fun flying. Guess it is how it is set up and how it is run that makes the safety the issue. You can have a runaway plane kill someone by a lot of means. That doesn't mean stop flying them, it just means take precautions.

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

Use a correx plane.... no bits will get knocked off, and all the switches and likc can be tucked away. BIG BOUNS!!! at the end of the day you have a new paint job on your white plane

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

I agree that there is risk in everything. What one would consider acceptable risk another may not, so there is a lot of gray areas. Certain RC activities pose more risk than others. That doesn't mean that higher risk activities should be banned. Instead, higher risk activities should take precautions such that the risk level is reduced to an acceptable level. What is most important in my mind is that all involved are aware of what risk exists and the precautions are taken to minimize risk to a level all involved are comfortable with.

I don't think I'd consider the towing of a target to shoot like combat. Combat has very clear and rigid no fly lines based on engine displacement et. al. because of the inherent danger in combat. However, I think towing a target is a lot safer than combat or shooting the plane. Therefore, I'd approve such an activity as long as it is clear to all that shooting the plane is off limits.

Whatever you decide, have fun, but please error to the side caution, especially if spectators or persons not familiar with RC are involved as they may not be aware of some of the dangers that exist.

Cheers

rb765

My Feedback: (9)

i think there is a section under california penal code that states that it is illegal to shoot a projectile at any aircraft...doesnt specifically say full size or scale or that it had to by flying or had to be a person in it...i will research it further and post the results

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

The same place that was responsible for the stickers on servos and more, waning you not to eat them because of lead content
guess the military better not shoot down any enemy aircraft in that state or they'll be spanked with a wooden spoon

Hossfly

Well just Shucks and Darn!!!

I read dodgefsu, "yea heard from carl maroney "ama special services" and he said
The throwing of an object or shooting, including use of a paintball gun, at a model aircraft would constitute a violation of the AMA Safety Code under operations that were careless, reckless and dangerous manner. Yakity Yak...."

I get all bent out of shape as these decisions keep coming from a bureaucrat that doesn't fly much if any, kinda like some Dist. 5 guy, and should not be allowed to make such decisions.

Then I read Monkeyboy #6, and what he says does make good sense, although I hate to admit such and it kind of takes the wind out of my sails.

Just Darns and Drats!!!

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Yea, I also hate it when good sense takes the fun out of stuff. We must all be getting older.

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

Getting older is better than the alternative.

dodgefsu

hummmmm.... sure don't make alot of sence for a person to smoke a cigrette and get cancer then file it on their insurance,
and a person to shoot a PAINTBALL at a plane, and if something happen, be all on there own......" Assuming you don't live uder a rock and don't know that smoking is bad for you"

Well the banner thing is a good idea but i am sure that some lawyer or "special services person" will find a problem with it.

stalspin-delete

It has been my impression that our hobby/sport is to have fun and to continue to promote the hobby/sport.
what is being suggested could give anyone looking for a reason to condemn our hobby/sport. why look for problems. I'm sure there are many other ways to generate funds if that is the reason for the paintball deal. come on guys its bad enough now that the news media is getting involved with suggesting our aircraft can be guided missles. don't add fuel to their fire.

to new caney tx ???? where abouts in Mich U.P

dodgefsu

there's always one in every crowd

Hummve

I think a SPAD would be good for this i have never owned one and i am not a SPAD dude but look tuff as nails and their is really no lose just more money you can raise

DarkWolf

Just my 2 cents, but I think everyone would be better off not to lob things at airplanes.. Instead, consider this one food for thought...

You rig up a custom gun that uses a higher powered diode laser to "shoot" at the plane... Several sensors in the plane are in place that could pick up a "hit"... Once a hit is taken, an on board system turns on a smoker for say, 30 seconds to simulate a blown engine.. You could then fly the plane in a somewhat sloppy manner to act as if it's hit and blown the engine..

It's all fun, and safe as can be.. Kinda like laser tag in a way...

More food..

Also have a system wired up to play a short audio clip at high volume, mayday, mayday, I'm hit, going down.. AHH!

That would get kicks..

At any rate, I'm sure I just got someones mind going... If I had the time, I'm sure I could come up with something in the lines of this, but I'll leave it to someone else..

BTW, laser from gun would need to pulse.. Say, pull trigger and laser turns on for 10 seconds at each pull..

With the cost of "good" diode lasers that go several miles coming lower I'd bet you can put together something for $100 or so.. An adjustment to the lens to give the beam more flare (or remove the lens, this makes the dot bigger) it would make one VERY fun activity, and be relativly safe... Not to meantion, if you make it a big public event, it will pull in more people to the hobby, or at least boost awareness..

The only safety measures you would need is for gun handling.. No one likes a high powered laser beam in the eye.. It CAN be damaging, even if it's a "small" diode laser and not the big high voltage HeNe lasers like I have setting behind me..

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

CSM make an air to air system that would work if one of the lazers was attached to a toy gun. it can be programed to move a surface to make the wings waggle for example.
However, i'd be happy for anyone to shoot at my correx delta with a paintball gun, i know it'd survive any hit unless you got one down the carb

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Model lazer tag didn't work, its been done.

So now we have what is called combat meets. You can fly 2 planes at over 75 MPH each at each other and miss the streamer and spread planes all over the place and sanction it under AMA rules, but you can't shoot a paintball at a plane.

Go figure the logic in that. Makes a lot of sense.

EDallas

Very interesting comments. IMHO it is puzzling how an org can condone a combat event and in the same breath say that the risk in PB shooting is to great.

In reality, combat has very rigid guidelines designed to reduce the risk to an acceptable level. I think someone already mentioned that. Seems like the same could be applied to PB events.

My own structure for a PB event requires that a safety officer actively control the entire event. All shooters wear PB protective gear (Helmet,goggles). The firing zone is limited to a given arc between runway markers) and all target aircraft are flown low and off the far side of the runway. Number of simultaneous shooters is limited and each has a uniquely colored and limited number of markers.

I would be interested in other thoughts and or controls to ensure safety.