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Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

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Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

Old 07-26-2007, 05:52 PM
  #51  
ckangaroo70
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

I am a member of two Clubs. The first Club of which I am President has 40 members and charges $30 a year for a family membership. We fly off of two nicely mowed grass runways, and have some nice starter benches and such, but no fancy pavillions or anything like that. The second Club I belong to is about the same, but with less members, but charges only $20 a year for a family membership. Both are AMA Clubs, and require AMA membership. So $88 a year isn't that bad, especially since one couldn't mow a space in there own back yard to fly from for less than $88 worth of gas each season. It also stands to reason that the Clubs that have more expenses are going to have higher dues. Paved runways and shelters are not cheap! I have visted alot of club websites, and I have never really seen a club that has outlandish fees to join! Normally the higher the fees, the more expense that particular club has! There might be a small few who try to turn a buck, but most are just trying to keep things up, or trying to save for something that the majority of members feel would be a nice club addition. I am not a wealthy man, but the $108 I spend each year to belong to AMA, and the 2 clubs in which I am a member is a drop in the bucket compared to all the RC Airplane junk I will buy this year that will just get stuffed under the bench and probally never used!
Old 07-26-2007, 07:02 PM
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Red Scholefield
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?


ORIGINAL: iflyj3


ORIGINAL: John Casey

The point of this is.....

CAN WE MAKE IT CHEAPER TO GET INTO OUR CLUBS without going into the red?

Its not going to really hurt us to TRY is it? Can we do better?
Mr. Casey,

I suggest that you run for an office in the club and see what you can do instead of complaining about how much things cost. I think your vision will become 20-20 instead of fuzzy images of club expenses.
Seems that John's perfect club has somewhat of a problem filling vacancies. Makes it easier to understand where he is coming from.

President
Jeffery Weiss (916) 332-4661 [email protected]

Vice President
Dan Rainda (916) 455-2418 [email protected] (Flight Coordinator)

Treasurer
Jason Keiter (707) 469-8564 [email protected]

Secretary
Vacant

Safety Officer
John Casey (916) 628-1590 [email protected]

Snack Shack
Vacant

Raffle
Vacant

Newsletter
Editor
Vacant

Mailing
Vacant


Old 07-26-2007, 07:05 PM
  #53  
Red Scholefield
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf


ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield




You should be able to cut them. Your are sharing a public park with another club that has funded any improvements.

Again you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The flying site of the club I spoke of, that reduced their dues, is privately owned. You should read posts a little closer and check your facts a little better.

Please tell us how you do it. Many would like to find a way to cut their dues.
Old 07-26-2007, 07:35 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?


ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids


ORIGINAL: iflyj3


ORIGINAL: John Casey

The point of this is.....

CAN WE MAKE IT CHEAPER TO GET INTO OUR CLUBS without going into the red?

Its not going to really hurt us to TRY is it? Can we do better?
Mr. Casey,

I suggest that you run for an office in the club and see what you can do instead of complaining about how much things cost. I think your vision will become 20-20 instead of fuzzy images of club expenses.

In defense of John, he is an officer in his club http://www.wdarc.org/. They have a extremely nice facility. I would love to know how this plan works out for his club. John, please keep us all updated.

Jimmy Skids

Thanks for the information and link. His dues at $60 for the facility they have is cheap. Since he is an officer I am really surprised he would like to have lower dues!

We have a similar field with a 700 foot paved runway and UC circle, but no float lake. I have tried to get our club to increase our dues so they would have more money for more improvements, but a lot of members resist.
Old 07-27-2007, 01:09 AM
  #55  
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield




Please tell us how you do it. Many would like to find a way to cut their dues.
Me??? You are mistaken. The club collectively decided to cut dues for new members at a recent meeting. BTW I did not even attend the meeting...I had previously committed to an out of town flying event and could not be there. I am truly lucky to belong to the best clubs ever. Their commitment to promote the hobby is truly amazing. All the road blocks commonly cited are just blown away by these guys. If all clubs had my clubs’ spirit our hobby would definitely be widely enjoyed by the general public.
Old 07-27-2007, 01:27 AM
  #56  
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

John

you didnt state what you consider to be expensive, are you talking about the yearly
dues or the special assessment some clubs charge to join?

IMOP anything under $100.00 a year would be reasonable for most clubs my club
is $50.00 a year with i belive a $200.00 assessment to join. However I do think
it may be a wise thing for clubs to maybe spread the start up assessment out
for six months to a year.
Old 07-27-2007, 05:29 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

I'm not going to miss $85 a year in a thousand dollar hobby, but I really wish clubs would do away with initiation fees. By the time you tell a guy he has to spend $300 for a plane, another $100 or so for support equipment, $59 for AMA, and $85 for club dues, most people have heard just about enough. Then when you tell them they have to pay another $50 because they aren't one of the guys, that sends a lot of them packing. I've had people ready to join until I told them about the initiation fee.

The best rerason I've heard for keeping initiation fees is "I had to pay it, so they should too." My thinking is that if you want new members, do you really care about that $50 you spent once 10 years ago? Man, for most of us, $50 is pennies compared to what we have put into aircraft, tools, fuel, building supplies, etc.

Old 07-27-2007, 10:35 AM
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

The best rerason I've heard for keeping initiation fees is "I had to pay it, so they should too."
Old 07-27-2007, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

Doc,

I have to agree on your points about initial costs to new members.
Old 07-27-2007, 11:04 AM
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

The club collectively decided to cut dues for new members at a recent meeting.
Only for new members? Existing members pay more? What were the dues before and after the cuts? Your crusade to reduce costs to attract new members is admirable but it would be nice to know just where the club found the wherewithal to do this. Were the dues more than they needed to fund and sustain the operation?
Old 07-27-2007, 12:16 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?


ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

The club collectively decided to cut dues for new members at a recent meeting.
Only for new members? Existing members pay more? What were the dues before and after the cuts? Your crusade to reduce costs to attract new members is admirable but it would be nice to know just where the club found the wherewithal to do this. Were the dues more than they needed to fund and sustain the operation?
Red,

I wish I knew you were sincere and truly desired to understand. Forgive me but somehow I feel you only desire to pick at everything I say and I would ultimately have to defend every word.

It really is very simple; the guys got together and said let's get it done...and it was. Your club could do the same but there needs to be the will.
Old 07-27-2007, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?


ORIGINAL: John Casey

No crusade here, just trying to re-evaluate
how we got started in this 24 hour nautlius
style of entering a Model airplane club.
What is "24 hour nautlius"? If you're talking about a sports/health fitness center, you'd be very hard pressed where I live to find one for less than $50 a MONTH (and they're not open 24 hours a day). Still, young people seem to be able to find a way to join...




Old 07-27-2007, 12:22 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

Look around, I don't know why some charge higher prices than others. My Club only charges $40 a year. Cheaper if you are over the age of 65... or if you are a College Student.

I refuse to pay $100 or $200 a year, I think it's crazy... so I looked around for a club that wanted new members and loved flying without trying to line there pockets. (JMO) All the members Mow, pay for fuel and chip in one way or another to keep the prices low.

That's the way all clubs should be. So I pay the min. of $80 a year just to be able to fly. [&:] $40 for the Club and $40 for my AMA Card and Magazine.



Luftwaffe Oberst
Radio Aero Modelers Club
AMA District II
Pulaski, NY
Old 07-27-2007, 12:36 PM
  #64  
Red Scholefield
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf


ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

The club collectively decided to cut dues for new members at a recent meeting.
Only for new members? Existing members pay more? What were the dues before and after the cuts? Your crusade to reduce costs to attract new members is admirable but it would be nice to know just where the club found the wherewithal to do this. Were the dues more than they needed to fund and sustain the operation?
Red,

I wish I knew you were sincere and truly desired to understand. Forgive me but somehow I feel you only desire to pick at everything I say and I would ultimately have to defend every word.

It really is very simple; the guys got together and said let's get it done...and it was. Your club could do the same but there needs to be the will.
Mark, Our club dues ($50/yr) just cover our expenses, field Lease $750/yr, porta john, mowing equipment maintenance and gas, shelter maintenance, newsletter, web site http://www.flying-gators-mac.com/ and some minor incidentals. We have no initiation fee. Not much wiggle room here. Is there some reason you can't answer a direct question as to how you managed to reduce your dues and by how much? A lot of us would like to know, but wonder if any reduction that would not break the club would attract new members. So your club got it done - HOW?
Old 07-27-2007, 12:40 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?


ORIGINAL: John Casey

When we signed up to be AMA chartered clubs
we agreed to "promote model aviation".

So why do we make it so expensive to "GET IN" to our clubs and our hobby?
That seems a little silly to put up such a monetary obstruction if
we really are trying to get the hobby/sport to GROW.

Is that not in countradiction to what we are supposed to be doing.....promoting model aviation?

We don't have to run things like 24 hour nautilus.......do we?
How did we get roped into doing it that way?

If we make it less expensive to join our clubs,
it will be easier to build the membership, grow the hobby, the treasuries.... then
buy land, build more flying sites, get more members, buy more land.... build more flying sites......and on and on.




Frankly, I think most clubs fees are too low. Land to fly on costs money. Many clubs are losing their fields due to not owning their own land, and the developers buy it. The members who wanted only low fees were too STUPID and CHEAP to think about the future.

The local country clubs cost $20000 and up just for initiation fees. A local round of golf outside a club is around $70.00 +/-. And that is after you have to spend $800 on the clubs, $150 on a bag, and $80 on shoes. Oh, and let's not forget the balls, tees, glove, etc.


My local RC clubs average $50.00 initiation, $50.00 anuual dues, and rely on one or two people (the same ones usually) to maintain the fields for free...so everyone else can fly.

Try keeping a boat at a marina.


RC is a downright bargain compared to just about anything else out there.


Old 07-27-2007, 12:40 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

I too am intersted in how to reduce expenditures and cut costs in order to pass that savings back to the members. Are there shared expenses with another club or group? Do you have some supplement to your treasury?
Financial problems in the club always seem to be the biggest obstacle to growth in my opinion. Like Doc Austin said, initiation fees certainly detract from bringing in new people, but I have seen more clubs with them, than without, usually becasue of the costs associated with keeping and maintaining the facility.
Tommy
Old 07-27-2007, 12:43 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?


ORIGINAL: P-51B







Frankly, I think most clubs fees are too low.


RC is a downright bargain compared to just about anything else out there.


Be careful P-51B. I have thought that for years and you can't imagine how it has been turned around on me to mean something entirely different....LOL.
For me, this is my hobby, and I will pretty much do it, no matter if it costs me $50, or $500. But you are right, compared to most things, paying $100 a year to use a flying site and club field is a friggin' bargain.
TOmmy
Old 07-27-2007, 12:47 PM
  #68  
Red Scholefield
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

P-51B and Doc Yates hit it. I would like to share something a now deceased modeler had to say about it some years ago.

Modeler's, gotta love'em!
by Dick Burkhalter

As to the cheapness of R/C flyer's in comparison to golfers, fishermen and others who engage in expensive hobbies, I have some rather interesting psychological theories about that... Golf, fishing, owning and racing horses or cars, hunting or skeet shooting and a number of other expensive hobbies have always been regarded as adult hobbies to which kids might aspire.
The general attitude regarding spending money on those hobbies is that of "I've earned it as a part of the growing up and becoming a man process, therefore I deserve to spend whatever I want on this hobby, which by the way I use to further my business “Contactsâ€. On the other hand, building and flying model airplanes has traditionally been looked at as a juvenile hobby, which we're supposed to outgrow when we become men. The only men for whom model building and flying is considered a valid pastime are those who are somehow connected with doing it for business reasons. Hobby shop owners, model distributors, professional R/C competitors, special effects flyers for the movie or TV industry. Those guys are excused from criticism because, after all, they're making money at it and supplying all those toys we buy for our kids at Christmas. You may notice that even when there's a story in the popular press about some famous person who happens to be a modeler, it's almost always "and he used to build models as a kid," not "he has built models since he was a kid and continues to do so today."
How this affects modeler’s ability or willingness to spend money on his hobby and himself is quite obvious. Many of us still think we have to get permission from Daddy (or most accurately, Mommy) to spend some bucks on this "childish" pursuit we engage in, or we feel guilty if we spend more than our "allowance†on it. It's especially devastating to us to have to spend money to replace a model we crashed, because it's admitting we didn't know what we were doing. After all, "real men" don’t build their own shotguns, bass boats, horses, golf clubs or whatever, and for sure they don't crash them and wreck them half the time they go out and enjoy their hobby. (Car racers are exceptions which prove the rule; they’re considered only slightly more adult than us - we're pre-pubescent and they're teenagers, none of us has grown up anyway).
If you're out with some of your friends and they're all talking about their hobbies, boasting of their golf scores or the fish they caught or how much money they won at the track last week, do you pipe up with news about your latest R/C success?
Everyone who does, I'll give a buck. Everyone who doesn't, give me a buck. I'll have enough in a week to buy that new plane I've been lusting after. Even those who do, what kind of a reaction do you get? Sneers or laughter, I'll bet. Ribbing about still playing with kiddies toys and jokes about what's going to happen to you when you notice girls. I can’t begin to tell you how many times I have had guys say to me upon seeing my models or hearing me talk about them, "Oh, yeah, I built those when I was a kid! I had this full house B-29 with six motors in it and full radio control and was flying it out of the baseball field when a bird hit it and it crashed!" Or some such story. I'll bet it's happened to everyone in here. If it's something that happens while you're in a group of guys, they'll all laugh and try to top each other’s lies. What do you do? Do you stand up and say, "Hey, you guys, cut the B. S.! There's not a one of you who could a cut two sticks of balsa and make a straight spar! You were screwups when you were kids and you're still screwups now!" No, most likely you sit there and just try to ignore them, or you make some crack that indicates to all that you know they're fibbing and then turn the conversation to something else.
So what it boils down to for many adult modeler's is that they're embarrassed about their hobby and don't want to call attention to themselves, so they don't pony up to buy and maintain a nice field where they can be proud to go. So they fly off garbage dumps and wonder why nobody wants to come out and play with them but the flies.
Old 07-27-2007, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

Hmmm...

Golf dues & membership in my crazy area, $14,000.00/yr at a minimum.

RC club dues and AMA membership total, ~$140.00 for the family...

Hmm.... I think I'll go flying.
Old 07-27-2007, 12:49 PM
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?


ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf


ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

The club collectively decided to cut dues for new members at a recent meeting.
Only for new members? Existing members pay more? What were the dues before and after the cuts? Your crusade to reduce costs to attract new members is admirable but it would be nice to know just where the club found the wherewithal to do this. Were the dues more than they needed to fund and sustain the operation?
Red,

I wish I knew you were sincere and truly desired to understand. Forgive me but somehow I feel you only desire to pick at everything I say and I would ultimately have to defend every word.

It really is very simple; the guys got together and said let's get it done...and it was. Your club could do the same but there needs to be the will.
Mark, Our club dues ($50/yr) just cover our expenses, field Lease $750/yr, porta john, mowing equipment maintenance and gas, shelter maintenance, newsletter, web site http://www.flying-gators-mac.com/ and some minor incidentals. We have no initiation fee. Not much wiggle room here. Is there some reason you can't answer a direct question as to how you managed to reduce your dues and by how much? A lot of us would like to know, but wonder if any reduction that would not break the club would attract new members. So your club got it done - HOW?
Red,

I am not sure but I think if you were to cut dues to the new members for the first year or so it would not decrease your revenue or increase your costs that much. I guess somehow you see it different...
Old 07-27-2007, 12:54 PM
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

ORIGINAL: DocYates

I too am intersted in how to reduce expenditures and cut costs in order to pass that savings back to the members. Are there shared expenses with another club or group? Do you have some supplement to your treasury?
Financial problems in the club always seem to be the biggest obstacle to growth in my opinion. Like Doc Austin said, initiation fees certainly detract from bringing in new people, but I have seen more clubs with them, than without, usually becasue of the costs associated with keeping and maintaining the facility.
Tommy
Doc,

Did you get the part that the decrease was for NEW members? Your club could do that also. Red's club could do that. Just about every club could do that! Like I said, just takes the will to do so.
Old 07-27-2007, 01:01 PM
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Red Scholefield
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

LC, out of curiosity, just how big is the club that cut dues for new members. What are the dues, and how much is the cut for new members?
Old 07-27-2007, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

In repsonse, our club tried that a few years ago. We actually decreased the price of membership the first year by the cost of joining the AMA. Our dues were $100 and we reduced it to $42 for new members, so that they could pay the $58 for the AMA and their total offset would be $100. We don't now charge any more for a new member than one who is already a member.
That being said, we STILL had some potential new members who would complain about the cost. No matter what you charge there are going to be some who believe it should be FREE, and to that I will just say "Hog Phooey". If it ain't worth the cost of a good glow plug a month to fly at your club field, then they really don't have much interest in contributing to your club in the long run. There are always going to be some who feel like that cannot afford it, and are living on the edge, but there are alot more out there who will complain about the dues while smoking two or three packs of cigarettes a day, spend a couple of days a week in their bass boat or riding their Harley, and are driving a new truck every year. In my opinion it has a lot to do with priorities.
The bottom line that I asked you was how does a CLUB cut down on expenses when you are already operating at a base level and have bills to meet?
Tommy
Old 07-27-2007, 01:09 PM
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?


ORIGINAL: DocYates


The bottom line that I asked you was how does a CLUB cut down on expenses when you are already operating at a base level and have bills to meet?
Tommy
Where did I say club operating expenses was cut? Forgive me but I don't think I did but if I have let me clarify; new members have almost no effect on existing expenses but does have the potential of providing more revenue for the club. I see it as win, win scenario. I just can't understand you line of questioning...makes little or no connection to anything I have said.
Old 07-27-2007, 01:14 PM
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Default RE: Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?

"If you want to dance to the music,

You have to pay the piper"......

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